Discontent Americans Consider Canada

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=517&ncid=716&e=9&u=/ap/20030719/ap_on_re_ca/considering_canada

NEW YORK - For all they share economically and culturally, Canada and the United States are increasingly at odds on basic social policies — to the point that at least a few discontented Americans are planning to move north and try their neighbors' way of life.

A husband and wife in Minnesota, a college student in Georgia, a young executive in New York. Though each has distinct motives for packing up, they agree the United States is growing too conservative and believe Canada offers a more inclusive, less selfish society.

"For me, it's a no-brainer," said Mollie Ingebrand, a puppeteer from Minneapolis who plans to go to Vancouver with her lawyer husband and 2-year-old son.

"It's the most amazing opportunity I can imagine. To live in a society where there are different priorities in caring for your fellow citizens."

more

[Myra]

1. Thank you for posting this NNN0LHI!

Your 1000th post is a gem.
One worthy of that milestone.

I'm hellbent on Canada as are the people
featured in this column. I no longer perceive
Canada as a bland adjunct to the US. I now perceive
the US as the country that pales in comparison to
its Northern neighbor, in all the ways noted in
the article, and in many more.

[bigluckyfeet]

3. Don't Leave

We have to fight the SOB's.

[Myra]

16. We have to fight the SOB's.

I totally understand what you're saying bigluckyfeet,
and agree. My previous post should have made it clear
that moving to another country would in no way equate
to giving up on restoring 'Merika to a democratic state.

But after years of activism (street protests, rallies,
hundreds of letters to media and politicians and supreme
injustices, web dissent sites, etc) and seeing *no* results,
I hope to continue the good fight as an expatriate.

I think my family background (my dad was the only member
of a family of 13 to make it out of pre-WW2 Poland
alive, and only then by bribing Rumanian officials)
has made me extra determined not to wait too long
to make a change when fascism is clearly on the ascent.

I'm *not* giving up bigluckyfeet.
I will never give up.
I promise.

[dweller]

33. Wow Myra

when i first read your post, i thought it was a poem
a rallying, open, clear and conscientious statement (which it is) but meant to be a poem.


thanks for your words.

dp

[clarkbarr]

18. I will leave if the Nazi Party steals another election

If the Nazis stuff the ballot box again, I will have to leave. My wife is a British subject and we've both had it with this KKKristian Social Darwinist state.

We want to get out before the Red Ink really hits and everything is eliminated to give Gorver Norquist the wet dream he's lusted for!

The US WILL be a third world country by 2008 if the Nazi Assholes are elected!

[ThorsteinVeblen]

45. America is only as good as its freedoms and ideals

once those freedoms and ideals are gone, the country is nothing but another two-bit dictatorship that will need to be brought down.

[izzie]

6. My mother's neice went years ago and her brother went to Siam.

Both gave up US cit. Their mother would not talk to them and all three are very well educated, Masters and PhD's. I do understand the women. Her husband left her because she had a child and he hated children and she was stuck in Can without a penny and they took care of her and educated her so she stayed. She gave back to a state that helped her and it seems like a good deal to me for both parties. She lives in one of the most lovely spots in the world. Can. Rockies.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. I'm considering it...

I live realitively close to the border, so the climatic change wouldn't be much of a shock. I'm tired of a popular culture which reflects the conservative views of the minority...

And I used to love America...

[American Renaissance]

4. I did it,

When my parents split up I had a choice of staying with my mom in California or moving to Canada with my father who had to move to Canada for a job

I went with my Dad, and at the time I didn't think America could get any worse off, during the Clinton years I thought about going home. But seeing what has happened to America in just the last year alone makes me wonder if I will ever so much as visit America again.

I am still an American citizen, but it isn't something I am proud of anymore.

[Mikimouse]

5. Winnipeg...Woohoo!

nt

[Darth_Kitten]

7. I'm from Winnipeg.

nice town, VERY inclusive....

[Mikimouse]

9. Winnipeg is VERY Inclusive, I agree

I have had the pleasure of visiting my wife's family there on numerous occasions and have never had enough time to do everything on our list. we have seriously considered moving back because jobs for academics seem more plentiful. We have good connections at the University of Winnipeg, and have kept up contact over the years. Good to hear from you Darth_Kitten

[Darth_Kitten]

12. Hello!!!

:hi: it's just that everybody talks about Vancouver, so it's nice to hear someone who knows my hometown!! :)

[rook1]

10. I guess it depends

I guess it depends on whether or not you view this country as worth fighting for....Running to another country is not the answer. I read a great many posts on this forum and see a great passion for truth, freedom and yes...even the American way...Freedom.

Freedom from mindless wars, equal teatment of all citizens and freedom from oppression. It's all here on this forum. Stand up and fight...if you run there will be no return.

Don't go...the ultimate battle is at hand and we will need everyone to see it through.

[American Renaissance]

13. we have already lost,

What is there to stay and fight for?

The democrats and the media are 100% complicit with the Bush regime, if Bush decided tomorrow that he wanted to invade Uzbekistan you could count on Hillary Clinton and Dick Gephart to come out and support Bush completely.

The case bush made for war against Iraq was discredited in its entirty MONTHS before the war started, anyone who could type a few words into google could debunk the case for war. The media and the democrats could have destroyed Bush at their leisure, but they didn't they joined in the fun and are just as responsible as the PNAC bastards are.

The Media looks less like the 4th estate and more like Pravada. A russian friend of mine who teaches at a college in Maryland says the first time he saw Fox News he thought it was a satire. CBS and ABC might let the odd drop of truth out, but they flood hours and hours of pop patriotism to compensate.

America is dying, there is nothing worth staying for.

[burr]

14. Is having a specific job skill a requirement for being able to immigrate?

Or is having a college education and technical background good enough?

How difficult is it for those to immigrate that have a minor medical problem, like a war injury or diabetis?

[LiberalLibra]

8. There's another thread with this same story, might be in GD tho,......

....but as I mentioned in a reply there I will soon be moving much closer to the border. A quick "get away" is but one reason for the move at this time.

[American Renaissance]

41. I can't find it,

Do you have the url for the GD discussion?

[IndianaGreen]

11. Don't make the same mistake the German and Italians Jews made

when they stayed in their home countries a bit too long, and cost them their lives.

If Bush is proclaimed the winner of the 2004 election, I am leaving!

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

15. I agree Indiana

People, stay and fight till 2004.

If you fail, then come here. My door is always open. Feel free to PM after 2004 if you need a place to stay.

"Indiana want me, but I can't go back there"

Bill

[IndianaGreen]

28. Thanks

I just may be forced to do that!

[Myra]

17. "Don't make the same mistake the German and Italians Jews made"

That is *exactly* what I think, and was trying to say
in my earlier clumsy post.

Again, the good fight wouldn't end; it would relocate.

I think we're lucky to have a good option as close as
Canada. Even so, immigration there is not easy or fast.
I don't intend to wait for the 2004 sham to initiate
my immigration attempt. I think that many people waiting
for the 2004 (inevitable/rigged) results don't realize how
prolonged the immigration process is, unless one is
lucky enough to have a job offer or a sponsor.

[TheBigGuy]

24. The mistake they made was moving to France or Austria

so does it make sense to move to a country so close to the USA, which can be influenced by the USA?

[IndianaGreen]

26. A Canadian Anschluss is a possibility

but to do that, Bush will need the help of Canadian rightwingers to facilitate the annexation of Canada. I don't think the Canadian people will roll over without a fight.

[Spazito]

31. There is one short but VERY feisty grandmother....

here that wouldn't roll over! Remember, we, via the British, burned down the White House once before! My response to Shrub is, come and get me, you fruitcake! ( Cudos to the House Member for the "fruitcake" description"

[Joe the Revelator]

19. i think this line says it best if bush inc. comes back in '04

Conversely, Mollie Ingebrand says some of her friends — people who share her left-of-center views — argue that she should stay at home to battle for changes here.

"I've been there and done that," Molly said. "I don't want to stay and fight anymore. I can have that bittersweet love for my country from somewhere else."

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. it's all part of the neocon plan

[PaDUer]

21. Don't forget,

the idiot can delay the so-called "elections" for 3yrs..Don't forget, they already let the people go "through the motions" of having them think they voted and their votes did NOT count..

[Nottingham]

22. I got to admit I have been thinking about it!

:bounce:

[lightbulb]

23. Uncle Sam wants YOU

Hi everyone, this is my first post. been lurking for a while, but I was inspired to register by this thread.

Isn't this supposed to be a discussion board for activists? I don't mean to sound accusatory, it just hurts to read that we are on the verge of loosing such good people. Believe me, the thought of leaving the US has crossed my mind more than once, but I don't think I could live with myself if I had to watch the nation of my birth crumble because I chose not to stay and protect it.

Please don't give up on us. Our country needs thinking citizens like you now more than ever! It's obvious that a brain-drain is part of the current regime's plan, and the trend is bound to serve them immensely.

Embracing the path of least resistance has never been a tenant of the democratic ideal. There is still hope. American progressives been in this kind of trouble before and managed to pull through by sticking together, and that was before the internet! Critical mass is close at hand. The average American is getting wise to what's up. Things will change soon.

Please, please stay with us!

BTW - Thank you kind Canadians who have offered your support. Personally, I'd like to show up in Canada as a friend rather than a refugee.

[JaySherman]

25. I understand your point, but

I tend to agree with the sentiments about not waiting too long and taking the fight somewhere else. With the way things are going hesitation could prove very costly. At some point, self-preservation has to kick in. Of course, if the whole U.S.A. keeps going insane the way it is, nowhere will anyone be safe but at least I can try to minimize the chance of political persecution.

It's a hard choice to make, leaving friends, family and everything you know to start over. However, I think I'd rather do that than risk facing one of our prisons for being a dissenter. I've read enough about those places. They terrify me. There are a lot of things I love about being here, but more and more it seems that this country doesn't represent democratic, humane ideals anymore. It's not just the government either. Seems like a lot of people are gleefully going along for the ride. What a monster we've created.

I'm fortunate enough to have been offered a wonderful opportunity to go work overseas for a year. I leave within a couple months, and I'm already considering what my next move will be. Over the next year or so, I'm going to have some difficult choices to make. Canada is one option I'm pondering, or I could stay in my new country of employment.

I'm hoping things turn around though, because there is so much here I don't want to leave behind.

on edit: Btw, welcome to DU! :hi:

[Rose Siding]

27. Good points, lightbulb

It is nice to hear a reminder to be hopeful. I don't think the fight is lost but conditions have gotten dire.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[ILeft]

29. It's one thing to "consider" Canada, it's another to get in...

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

[Gloria]

30. I can never be a legal resident....but 6 months during the summer is

sounding more and more likely....Looking at Lethbridge and now Cranbrook for summers a bit cooler that here in Southern NM and fairly dry ...both for health reasons. They're close to the border so I can dash back for healthcare, but out of the country. I need it for my sanity. Am tentatively planning a trip up there next spring/summer to take a look around, check out real estate....

[Spazito]

34. If you are visiting Cranbrook, make sure and...

go to the West Kootenay area as well while you are visiting, if you have time. It is very beautiful there too and a relatively short drive.

[classics]

32. A message to Canada.

Loosen up those immigration restrictions for us poor Americans huh?

Do it just to slap the chimp in the face, if not for any other reason. ;)

[GaryL]

35. I believe I can get in.

And I'm seriously considering going. Canada is a beautiful country. Like many of you, I used to be so proud of this country and I suspect those days are gone forever. I've been looking into immigating for the last year so, with some luck, I'll be posting from north of the border sometime soon.

[VeniceDude]

36. Seeing it thru to 2004

I like some others on this board have a wife who is British. I obtained my 2 year UK visa a couple months ago in case things took a turn for the worse with assKKKroft and co.

My wife couldn't take Orwell America any more though and left for London two weeks ago. We agreed I'd stay through the election and do what I could to make a difference. After which, win or lose against these GOP bastards currently occuping the White House I'll be leaving America for a while.

The same America that my Italian grandparents immigrated to after WWI for fear of the facists who were starting to come to power in Italy. It is a sad, sad circle of events.

Perhaps a new Lost Generation will find its voice in Europe. A Voice strong enough to influence those left behind in the USA.

[onehandle]

37. It's that or Yurp for us...

Luckily my wife and I work for an international company.

2004 will be telling.

[onehandle]

38. Related: Freeps call for a freep of this poll...

Defreep...er...unfreep...uh..

oh, whatever....

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/07/19/considering.canada.ap/index.html

Would you consider moving to another country if you disagreed with your government's policies?

Yes
55%
1053 votes

No
27%
511 votes

It depends
19%
356 votes

Total: 1920 votes

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/949276/posts

[MrMonk]

43. Which way would a freeper vote?

Would you consider moving to another country if you disagreed with your government's policies?

Yes 58% 8786 votes

No 25% 3850 votes

It depends 17% 2642 votes
Total: 15278 votes

[canuck]

39. maybe these folks have read about the US prison camps

Google "REX 84"

-army bases and sewage treatment plants being converted to prisons, complete with gas chambers you can drive a train into. All have train and road access -plus helicopter pads.

600 of them across the USA, all staffed and ready with army guards, but no prisoners in them.


-and obviously, no internet access, so no DU for you!

edit: http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. I looked at the site

and it's a real mixed bag--an article from Truthout, but also stuff from the "Christian Patriots" crowd.

[shanti]

42. rub it in, why don't ya, lol!

n/t

[Lisa]

44. we did very well from the last wave of anti-war US immigration!

Three of my college professors, and our family doctor all came up here during the Vietnam era.

Many of the people who relocated were educated, had some financial resources (and in some cases even set up businesses), and shared many of the social and political views of their new country.


p.s. I've been watching events across the border over the past couple of years. It may be that Canada ends up becoming a "safe haven", not through opposing the Bushies by force of arms (I hope it doesn't come to that) but through bureaucratic intransigence and doing things behind their backs. This way we may be able to foil any plan to build a continent-wide power base. In earlier times they have written us off as being incompetent, inefficient, and just plain incomprehensible.

Actually, I'm hoping that a lot of Americans choose to remain in the US, and carry on the struggle there (although I know that Canada would benefit greatly from their talents).

If Canada can serve as an example (of how things don't fall into anarchy if there are social programmes or medical marijuana or same-sex marriage) and also be a safe place where Americans can come to stay or just visit briefly to "rest up", I hope we can do this!