French immigration bill approved

[JI7]

The upper house of the French parliament has passed a tough new immigration bill, weeks after it was adopted by the lower chamber.

The bill makes it harder for unskilled migrants to settle in France and abolishes the rights of illegal immigrants to remain after 10 years.

Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who drafted the bill, says it will bring France into line with other countries.

Critics say it is racist and accuse Mr Sarkozy of pandering to the far-right.

Mr Sarkozy, who is seen as a potential contender in presidential elections next year, says France must be in control of immigration, rather than a passive recipient.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5089744.stm

[Minnesota Libra]

1. "....control of immigration, rather than a passive recipient" that's.....

......one interesting way to approach the issue. Good for them.:applause:

[Baclava]

18. Nationalism notwithstanding....It still sounds racist...

"The proposed law also requires immigrants from outside the European Union to sign a contract agreeing to learn French and to respect the principles of the French Republic, and makes it more difficult for them to bring their families over to join them."

"Mr Sarkozy has argued that riots by youths in immigrant suburbs across France last November showed the system of immigration and integration was failing."

"He says France, like a number of other Western countries, needs to choose the immigrants it needs."

[JI7]

20. from what i understand those youths are not immigrants

most of them were born and raised in France .

[treestar]

22. Wording assumes immigration is bad on its face

There is still an issue here. It might be a good sign (of a strong economy). I mean, it's never been proven to be bad just because.

[Orrin_73]

2. Sarkozy is pandering to the far-right because

25% of the french population supports Le Pen. France was once a bastion of socialism now it is a extreme right wing nation.

[Kipling]

3. France has always had a reactionary, nationalist, version of socialism.

French policies are aimed at helping the traditional working class and professionals, not the poor. In a way it is quite corporatist - the unions and large companies like Vivendi are deeply bound up with the State. And as for immigration, France has always been very racist.

[sadiesworld]

6. Helping the traditional working class and professionals

is reactionary, nationalist? Spoken like a true acolyte of neoliberalism. But you don't stop with that gem, distasteful as it is. No, you barrel ahead and link unions with corporatism. The only corporatism that is occurring in France is that which is directly related to neoliberalism. Like the citizens of other industrialized nations, the French are contending with job-killing trade agreements, social services stressed by high immigration levels, and the selling off of public-owned assets. Again, like the citizens in other industrialized nations, the French are desperately seeking leaders who will represent their interests and are coming up dry.

I hope DUers recognize your corporate-speak for what it is.

[Odin2005]

7. I think you misunderstand what he said.

Trade Unionism does not mean the same thing as Socialism.

[sadiesworld]

8. I think the poster is quite clearly advocating neoliberalism

and attempting to label the French people nationalistic, etc., b/c of their opposition. If the poster is anti-corporate globalization, I'm sure s/he can set me straight. lol

[Kipling]

9. Not I'm not. There are more than two systems on Earth.

The way that France is run is based on the principles of nationalism and tradition, not equality, liberty and fraternity. A set of interest groups - large unions, large corporations, and civil servants - run the country. Middle-class students see their jobs protected while Algerian immigrants get none at all. There is no possible way you can deny that France's government is preoccupied with propping up its largest corporations at the expense of any who stand in their way. The endless schemes and pork barrels, the constant insistence on "national champions" - it could not be clearer that the establishment runs things in France. And if France isn't nationalistic, why do 35% of people think tgat Jean-Marie "the Holocaust should be a footnote in history" le Pen is a positive influence?. Look at recent events there - that scandal around the dismantling of the asbestos-packed ship is one prime example. France didn't want to do the dirty work so she sent it off to an inferior country, not giving a faintest shit about the dangers. Or looking a little further back, remember what happened to the Rainbow Warrior? France is not a progressive country.
Not that there aren't a lot of decent people in France, and not that it doesn't have a glorious history. But it is not a good role model for opposing neoliberalism. Scandinavia is much better.

"Again, like the citizens in other industrialized nations, the French are desperately seeking leaders who will represent their interests and are coming up dry."
Nicolas Sarkozy represents "their interests", or so the polls say. Tough on crime, tough on immigrants, xenophobic and no friend of the workers.

[sadiesworld]

10. Scandinavia?!?!

Talk about WILDLY restrictive immigration policies. Denmark and Sweden, in particular, have introduced drastic new immigration laws in recent years. Yet they manage to avoid being labeled nationalistic or xenophobic by you, while France is absolutely vilified.

[Kipling]

12. It's not particularly the immigration controls that bother me...

As much as their treatment of the immigrants who are already there, and indeed were strongly encouraged.

[sadiesworld]

15. Strongly encouraged by whom?

The French people? HA! No, the immigrants were encouraged by the elite who said France needed a guest worker program for all those "jobs the French wouldn't do". So now the jobs have dried up and the guest workers (and their children) are still in France. Social safety nets are over-burdened (there's more than one way to kill a welfare program) and the French people are being called xenophobic by those same elites for failing to be cheerful about the resultant chaos. (See, we have something to look forward to)

Yes, I suppose they should have been less xenophobic, like scandinavians, and sent the immigrants packing with a box of clothing and toiletries. :eyes:

My guess is that your REAL gripe with the French is their failure to fall into line with the EU.

[Kipling]

19. That's exactly my point.

"The French people? HA! No, the immigrants were encouraged by the elite who said France needed a guest worker program for all those "jobs the French wouldn't do"."
Yes, exactly. France is run by the elites. And they've used and abused the Algerians for all they were worth.

"ocial safety nets are over-burdened (there's more than one way to kill a welfare program) and the French people are being called xenophobic by those same elites for failing to be cheerful about the resultant chaos. "
No. The elites support and lead France's xenophobia now that immigrants no longer suit them.

"My guess is that your REAL gripe with the French is their failure to fall into line with the EU. "
Eh? The French more or less control the EU. That constitution thing aside they usually do fall into line. Anyway, I'm not very fond of the EU. Why do you say that?

[Odin2005]

21. Bingo.

The elites are using the knee-jerk, PC-based defense of immigrats in order to silence opposition to using cheap labor. The people of France arn't buying the BS.

[recon54]

4. I don't judge Americans...

...by their government, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't do the same with France.

Thanks

-edit-

To clarify, I'm not trying to sound pissy, but characterizing France as a "right wing nation" is a bit unfair and not very accurate; as for LePen's numbers... it _is_ scary that he has any support at all, the guy is a freak, but it's nowhere near 25%.

And reason why he made it past the first round in the last presidential elections was because voters were sick of Jospin. They weren't voting for LePen, they were voting against Jospin. The final numbers, as I recall, were like 92% for Chirac, and I don't think LePen broke 7%.

I'm not trying to say France doesn't have its problems, but I tend to have the same kneejerk reaction when, while abroad, people give generalizations such as "America is a nation of..."

[Orrin_73]

11. Im not American

Im Turkish/Dutch.

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. Le Pen got more than double that

1st round: 4,805,307 (16.86%); 2nd 5,525,906 (17.79%) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_presidential_election%2C_2002

[adriennui]

5. france is trying to retain whatever bit of french culture remains

infortunately, they're closing the barn door after the horses escaped.

[pooja]

13. in order to curb mass immigration of untrained and undereducated

people's, you must try to help the region that these people are coming from. Why do people immigrate? Because the devastation in their own country is so horrible. People want better for themselves. They do not want to be impoverished, they want to be educated, they want the same things that we take for granted. With globalization the way it is, there needs to be a set guidline in protecting people, the environment, and the working conditions. It is completely unethical to continue shipping jobs out across the world to places where work practices are horendous. It is unethical to stand by and watch mass genocide, famines, and disease run rampant in Africa. It is unethical to stand by and watch absolute corruption south of our border in order to create a cheap illeagal job force for your own gains.

[sadiesworld]

16. Well said.

[ccpup]

17. With all that said, though,

I'd move to Paris tomorrow if given the chance. I no longer feel safe or secure or comfortable or even wanted (not being Christian or straight) in the States anymore.