China tells U.S. not to encourage Taiwan independence

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/PEK296009.htm

BEIJING, Nov 22 (Reuter) - China has urged the United States to stop selling weapons to Taiwan and honour its commitment to the "one-China" policy, Xinhua news agency reported.

The advice follows Chinese warnings this week that the "extreme push for independence" in Taiwan, which China considers a renegade province, runs the risk of war.

It also precedes a visit by Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao to Washington next month.

"The United States should honour its words, stop selling sophisticated arms to Taiwan, explicitly oppose Taiwan's provocative activities and send no more wrong signals to forces advocating 'Taiwan independence'," Xinhua quoted Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao as saying on Friday. snip

But the United States remains the island's biggest ally and arms supplier.

more

[goforit]

1. I don't think the US (* not us)is listenning!!!

Oh well.

[DivinBreuvage]

2. Why don't the Chinese just take Taiwan?

Please understand that I don't want them to do it, nor am I being flip. I pose this question seriously. I can't believe they're too concerned about killing Taiwanese. I can't believe they're too concerned that the US is going to interfere. The Chinese can hit back, and their slave labor makes American businessmen and shareholders too rich. Then again, maybe they're afraid that the die-hard anticommunist hawks in the US government will do something irrational.

Are they really that concerned about world opinion over what they do in their own back yard? World opinion didn't stop Putin in Chechnya, to say nothing of our own Crawford Coeur-de-lion.

I admit I know very little about Asian affairs at all, so I could use some education.

Françoise

[ConcernedCanuk]

3. You asked - so here's a "little" education

. . China has a population of over 1.5 BILLION

- (Iraq, only 22 million) (USA - around 280 million)

. . China has nukes - Iraq didn't BUT they have donkey carts !

. . China is now a powerful economic power (Iraq isn't/wasn't)

. . China has an active army of over 2.5 million

- with ALOT more in reserve

(Iraq has no effective army - don't forget the donkey carts tho - )

so GeDubya would have to kill ALOT of Chinese to even put a dent in their population

and not a chance in hell in surviving a major conflict with China

heck - the USA is having a hard time with li'l ole Iraq !

sumthing to think about

[0007]

4. Muckahi

[ConcernedCanuk]

5. ____ ? ? "Muckahi" ? ? _____ Just curious

. .

No entry found for Muckahi.

[DivinBreuvage]

6. Thanks, ConcernedCanuk... but all this does

is make me ask my question again. Why DOESN'T China just take Taiwan, if they want it so badly?

Françoise

[dArKeR]

7. Here's your lesson: Test tomorrow!

The RKF of Asia, President Chen Shui Bian (Abian)
http://www.president.gov.tw/
http://www.president.gov.tw/1_president/e_subject-05a9.html
http://www.scanews.com/collester/article3/article3.html

From Panama with love - President Chen in Panama
Powell's familiarity with Chen was only natural, but it was surprising that Connery, who became famous for playing the British spy James Bond in movies, told Chen he was his idol. Apparently, virtuous people are never lonely and everyone wants to be their friend. Even though Taiwan has been isolated diplomatically, its economic and domestic performance has wowed the international community. We believe Connery's respect for Chen came from his heart. Connery would never have made a similar remark to Chinese President Hu Jintao (å”ã—ü∑ . How could the president of China -- a country that oppresses its people, violates their human rights and browbeats Taiwan at every turn -- become an idol of internationally renowned people?
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2003/11/06/2003074804

Liu Yan Chun grew up in Taiwan firmly believing that her family would someday go back to mainland China. It took most of her life to realize that there would be no triumphant return, as envisioned by the Nationalists when they retreated (Edit: this word should be INVADED Formosa which they renamed to Taiwan.) to Taiwan after defeat by the Chinese Communists in 1949. It took her longer still to realize that she had no desire to return.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/315530.asp



First lady's European tour seen as diplomatic success
http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2003/07/24/1059010376.htm


Assassination Attempt
Chen's wife, you know, was at a time an even more strident crusader than he was for the rights of the Taiwanese and the DPP. In 1985 she was rammed over three times by a truck and was crippled, and the driver was never found despite the fact that there were witnesses. Most Taiwanese believe _ that it was a botched KMT assassination attempt. And Chen has to go home every night and see her sitting in a wheelchair because of it. It's not an easy thing to shake.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/marketqa/2000/03/20/



Accident or assassination attempt?

One account claims the driver, described in press reports at the time as a "simple peasant with a steady job and a fixed residence, Chang Jung-tsai" was driving an "illegally assembled truck" down the narrow street where Mrs. Chen was standing.

Witnesses said Chang purposefully hit Mrs. Chen. They insisted that the driver reportedly exclaimed "Oh, she's not dead yet" before backing up and running over her again to ensure maximum injury if not death.
http://www.chinaonline.com/refer/biographies/secure/chenshuibian.asp



From poverty to power: Chen Shui-bian's rise to the presidency
http://www.chinaonline.com/refer/biographies/secure/chenshuibian.asp


(Ex President) Lee says pro-unification forces to blame for SARS outbreak
http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2003/05/19/1053309473.htm


DPP decries Soong's proposal
(Soong and Lien are mainland pigs.)
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/06/15/2003055308


KMT (Pig) rebel blasts party's voting order
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/06/02/2003053622


Recent poll shows satisfication with government, Chen
http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2003/05/17/1053136494.htm



Former hospital chief under fire (SARS spreader)
Wu was the superintendent of Taipei Municipal Jen Ai when President Chen Shui-bian was Taipei mayor, but he was fired over allegations of corruption in an equipment purchase scandal.

When Ma Ying-jeou (KMT Pig) was elected mayor, he invited Wu back and made him the superintendent of Hoping.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/05/13/205762



The ‘New Taiwan Person’
Centuries ago, the island had an aboriginal culture of Malay and Polynesian descent. In the 17th century, the Dutch and Portuguese had colonies here, and the imported Chinese laborers — all men — intermarried with locals, forming the basis of the majority of today’s population. According this version of history, it was only in 1887 that China declared Taiwan a part of its territory in an effort to stem Japanese expansionism, say independence activists. But when that failed, China ceded Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity.
The Japanese held Taiwan for 50 years, until their defeat in World War II. In the years immediately after, Allied Forces backed Chiang Kai-shek’s temporary occupation of Taiwan. But according to pro-independence legal experts, the Nationalists never had a legal basis to stay.
“In 1949, Taiwan did not “split off from China”, but was occupied by the losing side in the Chinese Civil War,” according to a 1999 white paper endorsed by 18 overseas Taiwanese associations.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/316717.asp?cp1=1


Premier's performance satisfies public, poll says
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/08/01/2003061799


Soong, who is a mainland pig part of Chang's butchers, son of Soong a Powerful mainland China family like Chang's, ran for President in 2000, he lost thank goodness. But it was uncovered with official records that he received $20 Mil plus from the Gua Ming Dong (KMT) political party. This techically wasn't a crime because it was the party's money and not TW government money. But in fact the party stole it from the government, (everyone in TW accepts that). ('We are Chinese' I've heard as a reason thousands of times.) They traced at least 7 homes in Calf. purchased, by cash I believe, under Soong's son's name. Here's another ringer. Every child of every KMT offical is an American citizen. I hate Soong. I hate Lien who is the new KMT party chairman. These people are evil prejudice bastards who to this day treat Taiwanese as second class slaves in the country that was theirs. I'm registered some names, kmtpigs, soonglienpigs... for the upcoming election in 2004. I'll post were I make the sites.


President Chun vows to end death penalty - legalize gay marriage Taiwan
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/10/03/2003070206


xPresident Lee fingers Soong in Chung Hsing case
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/10/23/2003072975

Prosecutors mull arresting Soong relative, confidant
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/10/24/2003073119


Prying hard facts from James Soong
On Wednesday, former president Lee Teng-hui (óõìoãP) testified before an investigative hearing into the Chung Hsing Bills Finance scandal. Lee's testimony was reportedly highly damaging to People First Party (PFP) Chairman James Soong (ëvë^‡Ô), who has been accused of embezzling funds from the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) during his time as KMT secretary-general.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2003/10/24/2003073149


DPP condemns conduct of Hualien KMT council speaker
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/10/17/2003072124

Pan-blues singing the blues (Pan Pig Soong)
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2003/10/15/2003071768

xPresident Lee attacks China-centric ideology
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/10/12/2003071351


Police try to track down fugitive (KMT) Chu
Hou said the bureau is working with Chinese police to track down Chu, the former Kaohsiung City council speaker sentenced to 22 months in jail for buying votes.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/10/24/2003073097


So long and good riddance
"Of the dead say nothing but good," Plutarch advises. The problem is that in the case of Soong Mayling (ëvî¸Íî), also fawningly known as "Madame Chiang Kai-shek," there isn't any good to be said. Many obiturists have remarked that she was the most famous Chinese woman of the 20th century. What hasn't been said is that she was also perhaps the most evil woman to wield any kind of power during that bleak 100 years and that her influence on almost anything she touched was corrupting and malign.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2003/10/27/2003073589

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. OK - why doesn't China just TAKE Taiwan - hmmm

. . This is NOT an educated response, but rather an opinion from what I know and have observed about the area

. . The USA has forces in Japan and South Korea - so obviously this is a sensetive area

. . and MAYBE, just MAYBE - even if they WANT to "take" it

. . if the USA "mucks up" in the area, then the USA will look like the bad guy and then China doesn't look like the agressor if it "takes" Taiwan to make that "corner" of their border/coast more secure !

Is it possible, just MAYBE, that China's leaders are smarter than GeeDubya and his gang of thugs ?

Gee - tough decision there !!

[Mal]

9. It's a big step

A REALLY big step, it's going to cause incredible disruption, and possible unpredicted consequences with the rest of the world. At the moment, it's easier to just let it slide, but if Taiwan should push the matter China will have to decide whether to act or give up on Taiwan altogether.

[Loz]

26. They'll never invade.

Trust me, they won't. It's a lot more likely in the coming months that Taiwan may return to China if the Blue Alliance (Lien and Soong) win the upcoming presidential election. Most Taiwanese would prefer to stay with the status quo of the past 50+ years which has made them prosperous, despite opposition and not being part of the UN. More and more Taiwanese friends are moving to China to work. There is more opportunity as the GNP growth is much much higher in places like Shanghai and Beijing than Taiwan now. I've lost many a friend (foreign and Taiwanese) to moves to the Mainland recently.
It's in both Taiwan's and China's best economic interest to stay out of war with each other.
I've lived in Taiwan for 13 years, through the KMT led government up to DPP's Chen elected four years ago, and I haven't met one Taiwanese afraid of invasion by China, even right after DPP won and knocked the KMT off their pedestal. They prefer to 'use' China for their advantage instead. They are after all, ONE people.

Btw, this forum is fantastic. I'm off on a forum in Taiwan www.forumosa.com fighting the brave battlefield of the internet against a slew of expat fascists. At least here people usually agree on just causes. I've also been able to get more information here to use as ammo for over there!
:-)

[DivinBreuvage]

30. Great post, Loz! And welcome to DU!

Thanks for providing the viewpoint of someone who actually lives in Taiwan. Not only that, but your post was very informative as well.

Françoise

[cliss]

10. Interesting situation. China

tells the US to do something. That's the first time I've read anything to that effect in the past 3 years.

Not that it will do any good. The only thing these guys understand is power and aggression. On the other hand, China is a legitimate power, not to be screwed around with.

I'm curious about the sentence ..."runs the risk of war". Do they mean they are willing to fight a war with the US here? Man, we really do have madmen at the helm, don't we?

[ConcernedCanuk]

11. "we really do have madmen at the helm, don't we" Right !!!!

. . I take that as a rhetorical question !!

and ur right - the LAST people the USA wants to mess with is China

China has 1.5 BILLION as opposed to Iraq's 22 million

USA better stick to picking on weak nations

Well, that's all bullies are good for right ?

pickin' on the weak?

Just My Humble Canadian Opinion

[Johnyawl]

12. Why China doesn't just take Taiwan

They can't. Pure and simple, they do not have the means to move their large army across a major body of water(the Taiwan Straits). Not enough amphibious landing craft, especially the big ones that can move tanks, artillary, and soldiers and supplies in enough quantities to overwhelm Taiwan. Also they do not have a large enough, or modern enough, Air Force or surface Navy to protect an attempted amphibious invasion.

[sujan]

13. it has to do with economy

more than anything. Are you saying china couldn't take that puny island if it wanted to? Hell it can.

[Johnyawl]

14. why don't you explain how...

...China could take that island. What do you think the Chinese soldiers are going to do, put their rifle between their teeth and swim to Taiwan?

Educate yourself on the armed forces of China & Taiwan, and learn something about what it takes to conduct successful amphibious operations.

[sujan]

15. yea

According to FAS, they do have a well equipped navy where a lot of money is being spent on to modernize it.

Rifle between the teeth and swim to Taiwan? yes, once they reach close enough to the shore.

[Johnyawl]

17. They don't yet have a well equiped Navy

They're working on it, but they're a long way off. And the more money they spend on their Navy, the more Taiwan spends on their defenses. Remember, one of the things China is complaining about right now is our sale of sophisticated military hardware to Taiwan.

As far as their amphibious capabilities, I'll quote this from sinodefense.com:

The PLA Navy has an insufficient number of large-scale and advanced landing ships and lacks such indispensable ship varieties as amphibious assault ships and dock landing ships. It is estimated that the PLA Navy is capable of lifting a force of 15,000 to 20,000 troops and some equipment in a regional (less than 30 hours of transit) amphibious assault. Once a port is secured, hundreds of merchant ships and thousands of fishing ships could be recruited for a lift of support personnel and heavy equipment. Shortcomings in long-range lift, logistics, and air support, however, hinders China's ability to project amphibious forces.

It's obvious you know nothing of amphibious warfare. As a former Marine, I can tell you this: Rifle between the teeth and swim to Taiwan? yes, once they reach close enough to the shore, is utter nonsense. What do you think would be waiting for them on the beach? The Taiwanese girlscouts?

[teryang]

25. I tend to agree with your analysis

The Chinese are patient. They have all the time in the world. I don't think they want a military conflict now or in the immediate future. They would rather implement their military modernization programs.

However, if they were backed into a corner they wouldn't hesitate to fight. I don't think they'd ever attack first in any substantial way. Harassment might occur. They are in a position to put significant pressure on America in Korea.

[NickB79]

18. Is China currently expanding their naval forces at all?

Knowing the massive industrial capabilities of China, it seems that they could build a massive armada of ships in only a few years, and airpower projected from coastal airbases to match. Even if their technology was inferior to the US-supplied Taiwanese weaponry, sheer numbers could overwhelm their defenses. Or, simply build up their navy to the point where they could effectively blockade and starve the Taiwanese into submission.

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. Who would they blockade?

Do you think the Chinese are up to blockading the U.S. Navy anytime soon? Because that's who would be running any blockade.

[Johnyawl]

20. It's not that simple to built a modern military

China's trying - desperately - to modernize its military forces. But it's hugely expensive (take a good look at what we spend), and complex to design and build hardware sophisticated enough to compete in todays world. China abandoned efforts to design and build it's own fighter planes, because the one they were working on was made obsolete before they could get it off the drawing board. The same thing with ships; that's why they've taken to buying Russian destroyers & submarines. But they only have two modern destroyers, and 5 modern attack submarines. They have more on order, but they're taking them slowly, because they simply don't have the money. In the meantime Taiwan continues to buy the best military hardware we'll sell them. Which is one of Chinas complaints in the original article.

Even if their technology was inferior to the US-supplied Taiwanese weaponry, sheer numbers could overwhelm their defenses.

It doesn't work that anymore. Sheer numbers count for little. That's one of the reasons China has decreasedthe size of their army. They're going for fewer men, and better equipment.

And you have to realize that this kind of build up doesn't take place unnoticed. Especially with satellites. If China undertook such a crash building program, we'd know about as the keels were being laid. What do you think the US and Taiwan's response would be?

[ProudGerman]

21. If China were to build up their Navy, it'd take many, many years

They don't need to just build it up to make overwhelming Taiwan a possibility, they'd have to build it up enough to make the 7th Fleet a nonthreat. The Soviet Union was never able to match our Navy, and China is even further behind us than the SU ever was. It would take a monumental investment with only Taiwan as the prize, not really cost effective.

Secondly, my guess is that China has no plans on becoming a power through the use of the military. I'm under the assumption that they plan to become a power through trade and economics. I think after 5000 years they have learned that empire is folly.

China could theoretically march across Asia, but the first big body of water, or even extensive mountain ranges, would stop them dead in their tracks. Sure, they could build a massive armada, but even with 1.6 billion people I'm sure the idea of a meat grinder is less than enticing to them.

[pdove]

22. Chinese missile capability

Does anyone know whether their missiles will be a threat to our Pacific fleet?

Since Taiwan is only 180 miles from mainland China, our fleet can under attack from missiles and airplanes.

[Johnyawl]

23. Well, yes, but...

...their missle and air bases will also be within range of our carrier based planes, and the missles from the guided missle cruisers, destroyers, and frigates that accompany an aircraft carrier.

[pdove]

27. Are we safe from Sunburn missile?

There is an article titles
"Russia Ready to Vaporize the Jewish State
And then kick America out of the Eastern Hemisphere’s oilfields"
at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/joeviallscouk/myahudi/sunburn.html
and
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/joeviallscouk/myahudi/sunburn2.html

It seems that our West does not have sufficient means to protect fleet from their attack.

I know China has bought those from Russia, not counting those home-grown in China.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Here's a link from the Chinese Navy on the Sunburn...

...this is a pretty impressive piece of hardware, IMHO.

3M-80E Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile (SS-N-22)
<http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/weapon/3m80.asp>

"Powered by a liquid-ramjet engine with four solid rocket boosters, The 3M80 missile has the fastest flying speed among all anti-ship missiles in today's world. The missile is supersonic (Mach 2.1), low-flying (7 to 20 m, or about 23 to 66 feet, above the surface of the water) and performs a terminal ‘S’ manoeuvre (pulling up to 15G) to evade close-in defenses at a distance of 5 to 7 km (about 2.7 to 3.8 nautical miles) to its target. The 3M-80E missile, an improved variant of the basic 3M-80, has an operational range of 160 km."
===========================================

MY NOTES: Using the same launch tubes as Sunburn, The Super Sunburn (SS-N-25) has a 200+ kilometer/130 mile range. It can reach speeds of Mach 2.9 <2,100 mph> at an average altitude of only 45 feet.

Evidently, both the SS-N-22 and SS-N-25 can be air-launched as well as sea-launched, something that makes it extremely dangerous to defend against.

[pdove]

31. We better not intervene directly

I can not imagine what will happen if any of sunburn disable or sink our carrier. Will their be nuke war then?

We have not win the only two wars in Korea and Vietname in our history, we have to learn from our history. China is not Iraq that we can easily defeat (not occupation).

[Johnyawl]

33. In an conventional war over Taiwan we would win easily

Two of our aircraft carrier groups have more firepower than the combined Chinese Navy and Air force. A straight up conventional naval/sea battle would be over inside a week.

China knows this. That's why they won't provoke that kind of fight.

[pdove]

37. My question is:

Are we sure that Sunburn missile or its upgrade will not destroy our carrier? Otherwise, we can see thousands our soldier dye in a single attack.

Are we prepared for an all-out war against China? The latest interview of Chinese Premiere indicate that China will sacrifice anything to stop Taiwan independence. See
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/11/22/china.wen.taiwan.reut/index.html

Are we prepared for such all-out war against China which we lost in Korea and Vietnam?

[Johnyawl]

39. War is risk...

...anything can happen, and you have to prepare for that. They could get lucky and destroy a carrier; they could hit a carrier 3-4 times, have the ship survive, and still kill 1000 sailors. We could get lucky and destroy their navy before it can get a shot off.

China WILL sacrifice everything to stop Taiwan independence. I believe that. They're not about to let Taiwan declare independence, and have the US recognize them. They will go to war over it, even if they lose.

[Muddleoftheroad]

40. They might indeed sacrifice everything

Just like Iraq, China could end up in a war that costs them a lot of lives and is immensely unpopular. It could harm their economy and damage their status on the world stage. Even more, it might give rise to the exact elements they like to suppress.

[pdove]

41. I guess we are very confident to defeat China over Taiwan.

Same as we involved in Korea and Vietnam as before.

[Johnyawl]

32. A dose of reality about the sunburn

The Sunburn is a formidable weapon, mostly because its speed makes it almost impossible to defend against, once its launched. However, its relatively short range limits its effectiveness. That destroyer has to get within 130 miles of our carrier. They're not going to steam right up there without us shooting back. Take a look at what comprises a carrier group; Guided missle cruiser, guided missle destroyers, guided missle frigates, nuclear powered attack submarines, and that's to say nothing of the airplanes launching off that carrier. And at this point the Chinese only have TWO destroyers capable of launching the sunburn.(they don't get anymore until 2005). If luck is with them they may sink a frigate, or destroyer before being destroyed themselves. As far as sinking a carrier? No way:

3M-80E missile is large enough so that one hit from a single missile could seriously damage or possibly even sink a U.S. Navy major surface combatant, a hit from one or possibly even a few conventionally-armed Moskit missiles might not be enough to halt flight operations on a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier because of the carrier’s much larger size and its high degree of compartmentalization.

http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp

A lot of the propaganda put out about the sunburn being a "carrier killer" comes from our own DoD, and people like the Carlyle Group. They've tried to inflate that weapons capabilities to justify our spending more money on new weapons.

[ConcernedCanuk]

34. In tandem with your thots ond how the DoD justifies expenditures

. . anyone consider that the "race for the moon" was just a cover-up for the USA defence department to develop major missile weaponry

after all, back then congress or the taxpayer would have NEVER spent THAT kind of money on a missile defence system-

but to get to the moon ??

sure - here, take my money !

and did you also realize that Hollywood basically shut down just before the "moon-shot"

Almost 4,000 techinicians from Hollywood were involved in "making the "moonshot" look spectacular

- from the fake gold leaf on the engines, the 40 extra spotlights, and heck,

NASA even let them relocate the launchpad so the sun would rise behind the rocket !

Deal was - Carte Blanche for Hollywood, and if'n y'all make it work

we'll take care of Hollywood!

well, yup - it worked !!

Next President ? ? ?

Right

Actor Ronald RayGuns !!

sumthing to think about

Damm - we get sum good Documentaries up here in Canukville that I am SURE would be in violation of that Farcical "Patriot Act" ur King George gave ya !

Just My Canuk Opinion

[Johnyawl]

36. I've been wondering lately

...if it's not American aerospace companies helping the Chinese with their space program, trying to get another 'space race' started. Anything to get the American taxpayer to ante up billions for R & D and expensive space toys. We don't seem to want to do it for science, we need a competitive race with an adversary.

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Thanks

Glad you are in Canada.

[DivinBreuvage]

24. THANK YOU, Johnyawl and ProudGerman, for the great explanations.

You've cleared up something that has always mystified me. I knew someone on DU could explain it!

Françoise

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. The Chinese military may not be the equivalent of the U.S. military,...

...but don't sell them short. They seem to be modernizing very quickly:

China Defence Today
<http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp>

[Johnyawl]

35. They're modernizing, but it's not that quick a process

China has far more needs to spend money on then they have available money. If I were a Chinese planner, the list would be depressing.

Army, Navy, Air Force, all require modernization. At the same time they're trying to modernize they're conventional forces, China is also trying to expand their stratigic nuclear forces; more sophisticated missles, more warheards, better command & control. At this time they have NO early warning system. A surprise attack would catch their entire nuclear arsenal on the ground. All this requires very sophisticated, high-tech weapons, which are very expensive.

They also have a very ambitious space program that sucks hard earned cash from military weapons programs.

They Chinese are doing wonders with what they have to work with, no doubt about that. They're buying weapons & technology from anybody who'll sell it to them; they're stealing it when they can; and they're working hard to develope indiginous technology & weapons.(they'd like to be a net exporter of military hardware.) But the hole they're trying to crawl out of was very deep to start with. And unfortunately for them, their principle foreign weapons provider (Russia) is at least a generation, maybe two, behind us in almost all weapons systems.

As long as we stay off the mainland, China is no match for us, and won't be for a long time to come.

Our military/indutrial complex has been trumpeting Chinese military advances, and the threat they pose, for some time. They've been using that to justify spending a hell of alot of money on weapons programs here.

Which brings up a couple of salient points. 1) We're not exactly sitting still in this regard, waiting for China to catch up, and 2) Taiwan is modernizing their military, using our technology, to stay abreast of China. It's one of the things China is bitching about.

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Taiwan

Despite the pleas from China, it remains obvious that Taiwan is a separate nation. I'm not sure what they are intending here, but threatening the neocons is more likely to make them send lots of support to Taiwan. Is that war what China wants?