33 Years Later, Draft Becomes Topic for Dean

[kskiska]

In the winter of 1970, a 21-year-old student from Yale walked into his armed services physical in New York carrying X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist, eager to know whether a back condition might keep him out of the military draft.

(snip)

In the 10 months after his graduation from Yale, time he might otherwise have spent in uniform, Dr. Dean lived the life of a ski bum in Aspen, Colo. His back condition did not affect his skiing the way the rigors of military service would have, he said, nor did it prevent him from supplementing a trust fund with odd jobs like pouring concrete in the warm months and washing dishes when it got cold.

Even the candidate's mother, Andree Maitland Dean, said in a recent interview about his medical deferment, "Yeah, that looks bad."

Dr. Dean suffers from a condition called spondylolysis, a low-back pain that sometimes radiates into the legs, according to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons' online information site.

In interviews, Dr. Dean and his mother said that his condition was aggravated only by certain types of physical activity, not including skiing.

Dr. Dean said it was the military's decision to grant him the deferment, but he also said he was eager to get it. Had he wanted to serve, he probably could have.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/politics/campaigns/22DRAF.html?hp

[onebigbadwulf]

1. His brother DIED in Vietnam

...any questions?

[Don Claybrook]

2. I think his brother died in Laos, did he not?

Full disclosure: I like Dean. But I do believe his brother, and the Australian guy with him, died in Laos. But I could be wrong.

[w4rma]

6. His brother's remains were found in Laos, ~2 1/2 miles from Vietnam border

…
The remains -- two skulls, bones and shoes -- were in a rice field about 2 1/2 miles from the Vietnamese border, an official said.
…
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/page1/2233144


11. Bolikhamxai ( Pakxan )

…
The remains were recovered last week during an excavation in the Bolikhamxai Province of central Laos.
…
In an article on the Sharman family's reaction to the recovery, Australia's Herald Sun newspaper quoted Sharman's brother Ian as saying the two men had been handcuffed and executed and their bodies thrown into a bomb crater.

The newspaper said the men had been arrested as suspected spies as they traveled along the Mekong River in Laos.
…
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/11/18/dean.brother/

[Catch22Dem]

7. you are correct

and his brother didn't die fighting in the vietnam war.

let me be clear on this as a Clark supporter though. I think this is the most ignorant issue imaginable. I think Clinton proved you don't have to be a Vietnam vet to be a good president. Besides, who are the repukes to try to make this an issue? They need to look at their own man and ask about HIS Vietnam service.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. I doubt if it mattered much to Dean's brother whether he was a...

...combatant or not.

A bullet in the head is a bullet in the head regardless of what you were doing at the time.

[AP]

17. US gov't also claimed he was a tourist but labeled him a POW

According to the geneva convention, civilians are labeled POWs only if the take up arms against the enemy, or if there's some doubt about their role in the conflict. If he had been a civilian, and the government was sure he was a civilian, they would not have labeled him a POW.

From all accounts Charlie Dean seemed like a nice Democrat, with good intentions. However, there's no conclusive evidence of what he was actually doing in Laos when he was captured. He definitely wasn't in the armed services, however. He might have been a spy (CIA) or he was a tourist.

[Noordam]

29. I smell CIA...... nt

[metisnation]

39. GW

chickenhawk extraordinare!

www.awolbush.com


:kick:

[DemBones DemBones]

31. Dean's brother was a CIVILIAN killed in LAOS, not Viet Nam, not a G.I.

My only questions would be "Are you implying Dean's brother was in the military when he was killed?" and "Where did you get the misinformation that he was killed in Viet Nam?"

[annagull]

3. So will the NYTimes finally run the Bush* AWOL story NOW?

Since they are raising questions about Dean's deferrment, wouldn't our Librul media want to inform the public about Chicken Georgie's excellent AWOL adventure?

[Guaranteed]

41. This is a good lead in to BUSH REINSTATING THE DRAFT

Every time this gets brought up, Dean should fire back about the fact that that is exactly what Bush is going to do. "Speaking of the draft, I hear Bush was thinking of starting it up again." or "I don't think the American people care too much about my military service record, but I do think they care whether or not Bush reinstates the draft so that he can start more wars."

[bluestateguy]

4. How I would spin it

I would have Dean say this, "the more important issue is not the Vietnam War era draft, but whether or not this Administration is planning to conscript young people into the military because our armed forces have been over-extended"

[Born Free]

20. Back then a lot of people wanted out

America seems to have forgotten, but back then most everyone wanted out, and did everything they could to stay out. It doesn't matter so much now other than to show the who is a hypocrit, as best as I can tell Dean isn't pushing to send innocent Americans to fight a war against inocent people that don't want to be occupied by a country that wants their major resource.

[mainer]

5. Bush's AWOL is now fair game

If the GOP wants to pursue this -- they should know that the blowback is going to scorch their boy bigtime.

Get Dean angry about this, and his speeches will be Bush AWOL, all the time.

[Catch22Dem]

8. I'd love to see it!!!

I wish Clark or Kerry would bang the AWOL drum too! I mean, they have a unique "invitation" to do so!

[AP]

18. I'm sure the media whores are going to get right on that story...

as soon as they're done talking about Dean's weakness on this issue, which will be, oh, about the Wednesday after the first tuesday in Nov 2004.

[MoonAndSun]

9. I suggest everyone who is disgusted with this story contact the

New Whore Times and ask when the true story of AWOL is going to be done.

[NashVegas]

25. Actually

After I read the whole story, I didn't think it was hugely unbalanced. But yes, it was noticable that they didn't publish the Bush AWOL charges in their analysis.

[Triana]

10. Bu$hit AWOL for 18 months - no excuse

Is this better or worse than Bu$hit's being AWOL from TANG for 18 months with NO excuse whatsoever - something his family would rather keep hidden. Or, that Bu$h was suspended from duty for refusing to take a drug test? That little piece of paper is on the internet, in fact.

Or that Bu$hit only got that cushy position in TANG cause his daddy pulled strings for him. After all, he scored the lowest allowable score on the entrance exam but still got catapulted in over 10,000 other applicants. I'd rather have the draft-dodger, thank you.

When is someone going to get the cajones to put the Bu$hit AWOL truth out in the 'mainstream' - or have they all been paid off or threatened by the Bu$h Cartel?

[Scott Lee]

11. This, to the Dean Haters, is like "Clinton's cock" was to the GOP

A heady elixir that can be served up at any time and get everyone wasted and laughing.

How pathetic.

[alarimer]

13. yes

It is also a smear campaign to derail the apparent front runner. Rove and his dirty tricks squad up to their usual tactics. Not that it can be dismissed so easily- people will believe this. It is akin to the "Gore invented the internet, lied about his mother's presciption drugs, etc". If this lie is repeated enough, people will believe it, mark my words. God we have to get rid of these bastards!

[Peace_2_Everyone]

12. Dean’s lottery number was 46

On this page I found Howard Brush Dean’s birthday to be Nov. 11, 1948
http://slate.msn.com/id/2083791/

He was effected by the 1st Selective Service Lottery held December 1969
The highest lottery number called from this group was 195
http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm

This doesn’t lessen my respect for him.

Thought you news hounds should know.

i remember seeing this on the news. using a person's birthday against them is cruel


Now lets us see who will die!

[farmboxer]

15. Bush Was Not Only AWOL, He Became a deserter!

Bush not only went AWOL, he became a deserter!

www.awolbush.com

[NashVegas]

34. Slate

And Iowa Pulse are the only places I've found that list the 11th. Everyplace else - including Dean's own campaign sites and the astrologers say the 17th.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. "Eager to know whether a back condition might keep him...

out of the military"?? How does the Times know Dean was "eager"?

And just how much "supplementing" of his trust fund was Dean doing by pouring concrete or washing dishes? I stacked concrete block for $2.00 an hour one summer while in school and was damn glad to get it.

At that point in the draft, they were taking people with all sorts of disabilities. I knew a guy who was literally blind in one eye that did a tour in Vietnam. IMHO, Dean was fortunate that the doctor ruled the way that he did...that war was worse than Iraq is today, but give Iraq a few more years.

Just another Dean smear-job.

[CWebster]

19. SO WHAT!

This juvenile infatuation with military service as the measure of worth is bullshit. What is going to take, another Viet Nam style draft, with friends and family members coming home in body bags and war atrocities all over the news every night for the reality to set in? Kerry came home and protested the war and spoke of war crimes in front of congress and now his head swells about the glory days, and people go all ga-ga over a General. Young kids all hepped up to get Saddam for 911 are now trapped in a never-ending hell-hole and for what? For what? Bush appears the joke because his transparent game of playing war stud doesn't fool anyone, but seeking symbols to compete with Bush is only playing his game.

Everytime we honor war and the illusions of heroism we aren't supporting the troops who are living the reality and we are betraying our own troops at home who turn out on the streets to protest these sick and unnecessary wars.

This sounds like another hit piece from the "liberal" NYTimes using Right-wing attack mode, most likely in defense of their estabishment insider, Kerry.

[saigon68]

21. I agree with you

It took me 35 years to get to this point.

I make fun of the Chimpanzee not just because of his AWOL status, but because he gets an active sexual arousal from using the military to blast the Fuck out of everything that moves.

He also has no use for the grunts who have to enforce the stupid directions of Bremer on an increasingly hostile population. After all they are of a "LOWER SOCIAL CLASS"

The Chimp certainly will do anything to get re-elected and his handlers right now, don't want him hanging round with Gold Star Parents, who have lost sons and daughters. These people are upset and the Chimp will get in trouble with grieving parents.

This is because the dumb mother fucker is too stupid to know how to handle the parents and their grief. He will fuck that up too and that is the last thing the handlers and their corporate masters want..

In closing there was nothing heroic or honorable about Viet-Nam-- if you didn't go you really didn't miss anything.

My point here at DU is simply this.

No MORE VIET-NAMS

[Frederic Bastiat]

22. How convenient for Dean

In interviews, Dr. Dean and his mother said that his condition was aggravated only by certain types of physical activity, not including skiing.


Anybody that ski's regulary knows this is a BS statement, worse if it was downhill where you have to arch your back constantly.

[MGKrebs]

23. Ah yes, the politically connected (not)

stockbroker Daddy of Dean pulled some strings in the Army , to get his son a deferrment.

Or at least was able to convince a doctor to risk his career by falsifying a medical condition? A diagnosis that the Army could choose to reject anyway if it wanted to.

Give it a rest.

[dsc]

28. Wouldn't you actually have to have his condition

to know what the heck you are talking about?

[demdave]

33. I have this condition, but before I discuss it I have to preface any

discussion with......I am heavily leaning toward Dean at this point.

Now..... Any activity, skiing, lifting, gagging while brushing your teeth, picking up a towel...anything, CAN put you on the floor for a day. That being said, I do roofing, remodeling, lifting, car repair and hike with a full pack. This is a once every 2-5 years you get hit HARD condition. It would not stop you from anything. It would not stop you from skiing or serving in the military.


The excuse of "skiing doesn't effect you" is pure unadulterated B.S.. It reeks of the "I smoked and didn't inhale" excuse and doesn't become a man who should be open and honest. He is outspoken enough in so many other areas, this stinks of obfuscation and lame excuses. Lay your cards on the table and tell people to MOVE ON. This will only be an issue if Dean allows it to be.

[my cuppa tea]

36. The difference being...

...if the condition acts up while you're skiing you go to the lodge and lie down, take a few days off, etc. (I'm unfamiliar with this condition specifically so I acknowledge an attack may take more or less to relieve it.) And if it's starting to bother you then you simply don't ski that day. But military personnel, particularly those in a war zone, need to be ready at all times. You can't tell your sargeant or whoever that you're a bit sore and you'd better not march today. Many people, if not most, with chronic conditions know their limits and know their bodies. Maybe it would've been carrying a 60lb pack that was the problem. Maybe it was his potentially being out of commission for days at a time. Not being Dean or his doctor I really can't say.

[newyawker99]

37. Hi my cuppa tea!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Rose Siding]

24. The NYT finds value in this story the same weekend

that the RNC launches its attacks.

It isn't news to anyone who saw Dean on Russert (which I guess only proves that his audience is miniscule)

In fact, if there had been, say, a leak to Drudge to give more wind to this non story, I'd be even more suspicious of an orchestrated effort. Oh, wait...there was a tease on Drudge. :eyes:

[quaker bill]

26. So what?

He went to the military, told them of a legitimate condition he actually has (with x-rays) and they granted him a deferment.

Nothing dishonest, no favors pulled to get him undeservedly into the Air National Guard. He simply stated his case and they did not want him.

This is completely legit. No one is burying records about the CIC being AWOL here (elsewhere perhaps). There is nothing to see here, time to move on.

Millions of highly qualified young men and women did not go to Viet Nam. Some got deferments, some were never called, some went to Canada.

[54anickel]

27. Well, he's honest about it along with other things of his youth.

"Dr. Dean said it was the military's decision to grant him the deferment, but he also said he was eager to get it. Had he wanted to serve, he probably could have."

For the GOP to use this would be suicide for Shrub. Plenty of info on his AWOL and I believe Poppy's intervention.

Dean also admitted to smoking pot. He didn't need a religious conversion to stop being a "doper". Shrub obviously needed some hefty intervention directly from the almightly him/herself to set his as straight.

Doesn't effect my view on Dean, as getting out of the draft was on nearly everyones mind those days. Medical reasons were used early on, defecting to Canada came later when they starting to pretty much ignore the medical reasons.

I remember some guys signing up to be "regular" army, navy, air force to beat the draft. They figured draftees were considered cannon fodder, if they had to go they'd rather be in the service for a career.

[leesa]

30. Do NOT let the Republicans or the hawk Dems make this an issue

ALL of the current mis-administration, except sailor Rumsfeld were chickenhawks.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

32. WHAT WHORES

The Boston Globe scooped the NYT on this story MONTHS ago, and now they're bringing this up now, just because Drudge puts up his siren for a couple of hours? Or was it because Bush launched his ads?

I hate the media sometimes.

You'll also note that the Bush AWOL story never really saw light of day, not only because Gore didn't push him on it, but also because the major news outlets considered this "old" news, just because one newspaper had already broken the story to a limited audience.

DTH

[bushisanidiot]

35. 1Y Meant He Would Have Served If The Military Wanted Him To

"Dr. Dean said it was the military's decision to grant him the deferment, but he also said he was eager to get it. Had he wanted to serve, he probably could have."

yeah, if he wanted to keep his back condition a secret.. why the hell would he do that? what if keeping his back condition a secret and not being able to keep up with everyone else would have gotten someone killed? repukes are idiots. they get their rich daddies to pay to get them out or to get him a chickensh*t job in the national guard.. Governor Dean had X-rays to prove his condition.. he didn't make it up. He did the responsible thing. Again, he would have had to serve, back condition or no, if the military wanted him to serve... the what the 1Y is.

[EV1Ltimm]

38. a candidate with baggage is unbeatable.

load 'em up.

[Democat]

40. The U.S. media is despicable

When did they ever question Bush about his past problems?

What a fucking outrage.

[mrdmk]

42. Question, how many Bush boys served in Vietnam and/or the military

besides papa Bush. This is just a question, nothing polictical of course.