CNN BREAKING: Georgian Protesters STORM Parlament

[matcom]

happening RIGHT NOW!!!

stormed the building in protest to the reelection. its MASSIVE!!!

developing

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. my, could this be a sign of things to come

hmmm

[Resistance]

11. Reuters Story

Protestors storm Georgian parliament

[maddezmom]

2. now armed security in masks

are gathering to go into Parlament. Yikes

[matcom]

3. question is: would WE HAVE THE GUTS

to do the same?

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. PUSH ANY People hard enough

and sooner or later you will see it

by the way, until now you have not seen TV taping this

As usual the Revolution is never televised until the last possible
moments...

The problem is how much more they can push, whoever they is, as it changes from person to person

[0007]

12. When folk are fed up, yes!!

[MUAD_DIB]

45. Damn strait.

[jayfish]

14. It's Not About Guts,...

it's about apathy. America is a country of trained killers. All you have to do is turn the correct key.

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. After how Delay and Bush handled the Medicare vote,

the way they broke with tradition and the constitutional process by strong-arming two more votes AFTER the vote was already counted; I'd say that the Republicans have already crossed the line. The question is, do we want to meet their challenge?

[Robb]

4. CNA link:

...right here.

-----


TBILISI : Tens of thousands of protestors chanting "resign, resign!" broke through a police cordon as they marched on President Eduard Shevardnadze's office in the boldest display yet by the opposition seeking to end the Georgian leader's rule.

Police fired smoke canisters at the protestors at the outset but quickly stood aside on the sidewalks of Tbilisi's main boulevard, many smiling and waving at the demonstrators as they marched through.Advertisement
Protestors hugged and kissed the officers in full riot gear as they made their way toward the presidential compound. They massed in front of the building, but made no move to scale the gate surrounding it.

"Shevardnadze, get your plane ready to leave," shouted opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili as he arrived at the gate.

(more)

[dArKeR]

9. Our protesters make a little trouble on a street and they're shot, gased,

beaten, and jailed.

I've been following protest stories around the world for about 3 years now and I don't think I've seen one story about protesters being treated as brutally as they are in the world's leader of Democracy.

[NNN0LHI]

5. BBC link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3229266.stm

Protesters storm Georgia parliament

Supporters of the Georgian opposition have stormed into the country's parliament building following a demonstration.

The move comes amid weeks of protests in the capital Tbilisi amid over disputed parliamentary elections held earlier this month.

The new parliament had just convened.

Georgia's main opposition leader, Mikhail Saakashvili led his supporters into the building.

He had earlier vowed to "trample" the country's leadership.

more

[Jack Rabbit]

25. BBC pictures

From the BBC Online
Dated Saturday November 22 14:43 GMT (6:43 am PST)

In pictures: Georgia parliament stormed

Eight photos.

[HairyPoppins]

6. Which ones are the good guys?

I'm confused now.

[NNN0LHI]

7. Look at it this way. We should have done the same thing after Bush...

...stole the election in 2000. Thats what is happening here. Hope Junior is watching close.

Don

[ablbodyed]

13. Sorry, but it'll never happen here....

they kill a few on TV, the media will call all of us criminals, and the militias will intimidate the rest. We're doomed to living in a fascist police theocracy. It's tooooo far along to reverse it, because there are too many who would support crushing it.
I've seen it coming for two decades: I lived in San Diego, the place where the fundamentalists began the stealth election ploys: getting conservative christians on the ballots without that being acknowledged, then BLANKETING conservative churches with voter guides the week-end before election.
These people are ruthless, and play fairly only when they can win that way, or they change the rules (Texas re-re-districting), or they kill you (Wellstone). They have unlimited funds, unlimited greed, unlimited ambition (to rule the world, or at least to bend it to US will). We, as progressives, innately believe in the rules, in fair play, and we can't fight them effectively unless we become just like them and WE REFUSE TO DO THAT.
I fervently hope that I'm delusional, and I WELCOME posts that can point out the fallacies of my post, but with all we KNOW about the last 3 years, it's going to be a difficult task to argue against what I'm saying.

[calimary]

17. Unfortunately, I think you have a good point. It'll never happen here.

People are too lazy, apathetic, complacent, and IN DEEP, DEEP DENIAL! Too many of them have their vision clouded by fanatical religious fundamentalism. They actually think things are great now. Even when you present them with facts, they do.

I had a chat with a fellow mom on the bus coming back from my son's field trip yesterday. Nice lady - her son's a doll and a friend of my kid's. But she's a staunch rethug. She claimed to be happy about things that were now going on in Sacramento, for example. But when I pointed out that Gray Davis pretty much got lynched and blamed for the economic catastrophe that Enron and their good friend/collaborator Pete Wilson ripped off us consumers and Arnold has indicated he has no intention of going after our stolen money (he wants to settle with the oil people and let 'em off the hook) and that he's surrounded himself by none other than Pete Wilson and his like-minded cronies, this woman could only nod and concede that - well, yeah, you have a point. And she had specifically cited that Arnold had all these good people around him now and I totally refuted that. Even so, I KNOW I did NOT change her mind.

Discouraging. The basic problem is that the bad guys are certain they're right. That they know best. And there's just no reasoning with some of them. Even when you provide generous doses of fact, figure, historical perspective, AND reason. JUST SIMPLY DOESN'T COMPUTE. They'll STILL think they're right.

GALLING.

[bpilgrim]

26. it would have to get much worse before it happens here

but it can happen here, again... if it continues to get worse.

remember... the comfortable never lead the charge AND it will NOT be televised :evilgrin:

peace

[NNN0LHI]

38. I think some don't know how close we came to this in the late 60's...

...and early 70's. These were times when we had national guard positioned in every single major US city. And that still could not stop the fires. I still remember seeing armoured personel carriers on the streets of downtown Chicago. They were some scary times back then. I think we may see it again soon.

Don

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smallprint]

15. Some pics from Yahoo News:

caption: Georgian opposition supporters shout as they go to the parliament building in Tbilisi, November 22, 2003. Opposition broke down the door of Georgia's parliament building and entered the chamber where President Eduard Shevardnadze was giving a speech, according the live television. REUTERS/Gleb Garanich




caption: Georgian opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili (C) gestures as he gives instructions to his supporters in the Georgian parliament, November 22, 2003. REUTERS/David Mdzinarishvili

[Nlighten1]

16. Please take note.

This is how it is done but "they" know it.

[elfin]

18. Not so long ago Shevarnadze was pegged as a "good" guy

A hope for the future of the region. As I recall he was a foreign minister or diplomat before the USSR broke up able to relate to the West. Now a greedy thug who cannot abide true election results - sound familiar?

Georgia is the home of Stalin - they will bring the hammer down on these valiant protesters and old Shev will soon be on the Carlisle (sp?) board if he isn't already.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Russia WILL get involved in this one way or the other.

And it won't be pretty either.

Don

[NashVegas]

43. They've Got No Choice

because if they don't, the petroleum industry will. Until we control the ME, Georgia is still THE pipeline route for the Caucasus.

[Kremer]

20. Not good for Peace Corps & other volunteers!

They have 75 volunteers inside Georgia!!

[AP]

21. So are these people like the Republican rioters in Florida, or are they...

...like the Democrats we should have been?

From the things I've read about Georgia -- which isn't much -- I get the impression that the US would like to see Edoud S. gone, so they could get someone in there who was willing to cut better deals with US buisnesses.

Schevernadze's been the target of several assassination attempts, and I have vaguely had the impression that they were attempts by RW'ers.

[Jack Rabbit]

37. A few links from the BBC

From the BBC Online
Dated Monday November 3

Observers condemn Georgia poll

International observers have issued a damning assessment of Georgia's parliamentary election.
Over 400 monitors from several European democracy watchdogs said the poll on Sunday was marred by "spectacular" voting irregularities and fell short of a number of international standards.
In particular, they said that many voters in the former Soviet republic had not been registered in time to vote and there had been delays and confusion over voter lists.
With about 50% of the votes counted, a political block supporting President Eduard Shevardnadze had a clear lead, but it appeared to be trailing behind the total number of votes taken by major opposition parties.
First official results from Georgia's central election commission showed that the pro-government bloc For a New Georgia, headed by Vazha Lordkipadnidze, had about 27%.
The opposition National Movement bloc, led by former justice minister Mikhail Saakashvili, had around 23%, with the Labour Party in third place on 15%.

Dated Friday November 7

Georgian president urges calm

Georgia's leader has appealed for calm as a crisis over last week's disputed elections turned violent.
In a live TV address, President Eduard Shevardnadze told the opposition he was ready for dialogue, warning that a stand-off could lead to civil war.
Earlier, two people were injured in the western town of Zugdidi after a group of up to 50 men opened fire at anti-government rally.
The opposition says last Sunday's general elections have been rigged.
Opposition supporters in the former Soviet republic - who have been calling for Mr Shevardnadze to resign - are planning a new mass rally in the capital, Tbilisi, on Saturday.
Final results have not been declared, but pro-government parties hold the lead in official interim figures.

Dated Friday November 7

Shevardnadze's failure to deliver
By Natalia Antelava
Tbilisi

A decade ago, the silver-haired foreign minister of the USSR and the co-architect of Mikhail Gorbachev's perestroika, brought promises of democracy and development to post-Soviet Georgia.
Ten years on, and at the place where people greeted Eduard Shevardnadze's arrival in power, thousands are asking him to step down.
It's been a decade of broken promises for Georgia, and for many here, Mr Shevardnadze is to blame.
He's a man who has failed to deliver the country out of unresolved conflicts, electricity crises, rampant poverty and corruption. Just last week, Mr Shevardnadze made another promise - that of democratic and fair parliamentary elections.

Dated Sunday November 9

Eyewitness: Tbilisi vigil
By Natalia Antelava
Tbilisi

Saturday night was a sleepless one for many in Tbilisi.
As night fell in the Georgian capital, about 1,500 people stood in front of the parliament on Rustaveli Avenue in a kind of protest that Georgia has never seen before.
There were all kinds of them, young and old, men and women. A grey-bearded Orthodox priest, a young man in military uniform, old women wrapped up in woollen scarves, young people in bright orange shirts with Kmara student movement logos on them . . . .
The night on Rustaveli felt distinctly different from Saturday's long day of loud protests and demands for the president's resignation over a rigged parliamentary election. Yet the nocturnal vigil was a protest too, and a more powerful one perhaps.
The talk was of revolution, the mood was that of peace and determined hope.

Dated Monday November 10

Georgian protesters block troops

Georgian protesters are increasing pressure on President Eduard Shevardnadze after a disputed election.
On Monday, they blocked a railway line, preventing the government from bringing fresh troops to the capital Tbilisi.
Other activists have threatened to go on hunger strike after parliamentary elections just over a week ago.
Mr Shevardnadze, looking to shore up support, has visited his rival Aslan Abashidze, who is said to have promised troops if unrest worsens.
The count from last Sunday's poll has been suspended following numerous complaints about irregularities.

Dated Tuesday November 18

President backers mass in Georgia

An estimated 10,000 people have marched in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, to back President Eduard Shevardnadze.
The move follows more than two weeks of opposition-led protests in the city, after flawed elections in which results remain undeclared.
Opposition parties have been demanding Mr Shevardnadze's resignation during street protests in Tbilisi.
Tuesday's gathering by pro-Shevardnadze demonstrators was the first of its kind since the 2 November election.
Most of those attending had been brought in by bus from Black Sea area of Ajaria, where Shevardnadze ally Aslan Abashidze is regional governor.
Mr Abashidze is leader of the Revival Party, a former opponent of Mr Shevardnadze who has backed the president's attempts to face down the opposition protests.

Last updated November 22 (today)

Profile: Eduard Shevardnadze

Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze has lived many lives - as a KGB and Communist Party official, as Soviet foreign minister, and latterly as saviour of his country, which he led out of instability and civil war in the early 1990s.
But his successes and popularity of the past have turned sour.
Demonstrators on the streets of the capital Tbilisi have been demanding his resignation for weeks and there have been allegations of vote rigging and irregularities in the parliamentary elections.
The scenes of discontent are not unfamiliar.
In 2001 protesters took to the streets, following the irregularities that tainted Mr Shevardnadze's re-election in April 2000, and his failure to tackle rampant corruption or clear the cronies from his government.
Whether one of the world's longest-standing political survivors can regain control of his capital after protesters seized control of parliament remains to be seen.

Enjoy.

[AP]

46. I suspect real story here is: "who's going to let oil profits flow to...

...Bush cronies?"

If it was Eduard, then this is a democratic revolt. If it wasn't, then this is a RW-backed anti-democratic coup in the guise of democracy fought against a central government that is so under-resourced that it has done things, historically, that are easy to spin as anti-democratic.

So, all those stories notwithstanding, can some one tell me which way the profits were flowing in Georgia until now, and which direction their likely to flow if this coup is successful?

[radfringe]

22. from ABC news

Opposition Breaks Into Georgia Parliament
Opposition Supporters Break Into Georgia Parliament, Force President to Flee
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20031122_540.html
The Associated Press


TBILISI, Georgia Nov. 22 — Opposition supporters broke into Georgia's Parliament on Saturday and took it over, scuffling with lawmakers and forcing President Eduard Shevardnadze to flee as thousands of protesters outside demanded his resignation.

Opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili led hundreds of his supporters as they shoved their way into the chamber, overturning desks and chairs and leaping onto the speaker's podium, just after the president convened the body.

The velvet revolution has taken place in Georgia," Saakashvili said, as the hall applauded him. "We are against violence."

The takeover of Parliament throws into doubt the rule of Shevardnadze, the ex-Soviet republic's leader since 1992. The country has slid into its biggest political crisis in years after Nov. 2 parliamentary elections, which the opposition and many foreign observers including the United States claimed were rigged.

The 75-year-old Shevardnadze was hustled out of the chamber and then the parliament building by his bodyguards.

"I will not resign. I will resign when the presidential term expires, according to the constitution," Shevardnadze said before he was driven away from the parliament, accompanied by armed guards in riot gear.

[linda d]

23. georgia coverage

for those with access to cnn international -- they are doing a terrific job with live coverage. very informative -- it's amazing to be reminded of what a service an actual newscast can provide.

[SadEagle]

24. State of emergency declared by Shevardnadze

Itar-Tass, Russian state news agency reports:
http://www.itar-tass.ru/different/hotnews/russian/508333.html
(don't see the English version yet)

[SadEagle]

27. now also on the BBC website news ticker

eom.

[maddezmom]

31. and on CNN International

n/t

[NNN0LHI]

28. Bet Shevardnadze is on the phone talking to Putin as I write this n/t

[Nlighten1]

29. Or James Bakker.

[NNN0LHI]

32. Or both n/t

[SadEagle]

34. Yeah, one scary bit...

In a story by NTV on a speech by (I presume, one of the oposition leaders) there is this (translation mine):

"Shevardnadze has lost all chances of peaceful solution in the country" - said Burdjanadze. "In this room, our political opponents voiced a threat that, in the nearest time, armed forces of a foreign state would be used in Georgia. I want to warn the defense minister of Georgia, David Tedzadze, about that and say that the armed forces of Georgia must protect not only the president and the state but also every citizen of Georgia".

Edit, forgot the link: http://www.ntv.ru/news/index.jsp?nid=33335 (in Russian)

[SadEagle]

35. OK, she (Burdjanadze) is an opposition leader.

Previous speaker of parliament, and just claimed to be an acting/interim president.

[nomaco-10]

30. Hasn't knocked Michael Jackson off CNN yet ....

Unbelievable....

[NashVegas]

44. Top Story on NWI

..

[NNN0LHI]

33. CNN just reported Shevardnadze is calling in the troops

Lets see if they take his orders.

Don

[maddezmom]

39. my guess is NO

[donsu]

40. americans on mood pills won't 'storm' anything

nt

[SadEagle]

41. Itar-Tass: Russian FM heads to Tbilisi..

.. on agreement with Union of Independent States chairman, Leonid Kuchma (who is the Ukrainian president).

Also, the opposition supporters have now taken control of the presidential administrative building.

edit: two typos in two sentences... bad eagle.

[Cocoa]

42. Bush was involved in this election

This should be background in every news story on this. They report the statement from the State Dept., but they forget about James Baker, even though it was only a few months ago.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030703-15.html

Presidential Envoy James Baker to Visit Tbilisi, Georgia
Statement by the Press Secretary
Visit by Presidential Envoy James Baker to Tbilisi, Georgia

Former Secretary of State James Baker will visit Tbilisi, Georgia on July 4 and 5 on behalf of President Bush. The mission's primary objective will be to discuss with Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze ways to advance political and economic reform in Georgia through free and fair Parliamentary elections this fall. Mr. Baker will also discuss U.S. -Georgian cooperation on counterterrorism and other security matters. The Baker mission reflects the United States' readiness to work with all Georgian citizens who are committed to advancing reform and fighting corruption in pursuit of a democratic, prosperous, and stable Georgia.