Breaking - Drudge - FBI collecting data on anti-war demonstrators

[cthrumatrix]

FBI has collected extensive information on 'tactics, training and organization' of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to report any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squads, confidential bureau memorandum show... Developing...


http://www.drudgereport.com/

[Renew Deal]

1. This implies that the protesters are terrorists.

Someone here reported Savage saying that the other day.

[Syrinx]

4. "This implies that the protesters are terrorists"

Therefore, they can be held indefinitely without charges, without lawyers.

:scared:

[info being]

34. Which is obviously the next phase of the neocon plan

Look for "terrorist acts" to be pinned on Liberal groups before the elections.

[PurityOfEssence]

47. Let's just call 'em "enemy combatants"

The whole world's a war zone, whereas only certain tightly cordoned-off areas are "first amendment zones". The "war" is by definition endless, and "enemy combatants" can be held for the duration without being charged, so that's pretty much that.

Wonder how things are in Padillaville this time of year? He's now been held in the brig for 18 months, and Rumsfeld said at the time that we may never charge him.

[Maple]

2. They did the same

in the 60's.

All those hippies might have been Soviet agents you know. :D

[lumpy]

61. Did the same in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s,70s,80s,90s

and into infinity. If you want to know anything about anyone join the FBI.

[janx]

62. Yep. They do it all the time.

.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Er... weren't most of the anti-war demonstrators, British?

Does the FBI have jurisdiction?

[Mika]

5. I'm shocked.. shocked <NOT>

"Freedom is messy" - <sub>Rummy



"I will be a uniter" - G W Bush</sub>

[Cocoa]

6. that's still illegal right?

I don't have a lot of doubt it's true, in fact I wouldn't believe anyone who said they're not doing this, but I doubt Drudge has proof, him being Drudge.

[htuttle]

7. I think the 'Patriot' act makes it legal, sort of

There's been some contention about this between local police agencies and the FBI. Many local police agencies have refused to cooperate.

The FBI thinks it's legal.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Guess what? The FBI has been doing this for years....here's a link...

...I'm always surprised when people react as if these are new programs.

COINTELPRO
<http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm>

"COINTELPRO is an acronym for the FBI's domestic 'counterintelligence programs' to neutralize political dissidents. Although covert operations have been employed throughout FBI history, the formal COINTELPRO's of 1956-1971 were broadly targeted against radical political organizations.

The origins of COINTELPRO were rooted in the Bureau's operations against hostile foreign intelligence services. Counterintelligence, of course, goes beyond investigation; it refers to actions taken to neutralize enemy agents.

'Counterintelligence' was a misnomer for the FBI programs, since the targets were American political dissidents, not foreign spies. In the atmosphere of the Cold War, the American Communist Party was seen as a serious threat to national security. Over the years, anti- Communist paranoia extended to civil rights, anti-war, and many other groups."

MY NOTE: Although this program officially ended in 1971, I doubt seriously that the operations actually ceased. Now that the same sorts of people are in power, the paranoia about "terrorists" under every bed and behind every corner is thick enough to cut with a knife.

[preciousdove]

11. Emergiing Diseases are National Security Threats

So activists in those groups are subject to the same treatment up to and including false charges of child endangerment and stalking. So not only are you battling a debilitating, misunderstood disease that has robbed you of your future, you are considered an enemy and are subject to acts of "random chaos" to disrupt your activities.

They aren't going to need concentration camps this time.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Remember the Quarantine Act that Lil' Lord Faunteroy signed last...

...year supposedly for the purpose of isolating people with infectious diseases in special camps? Well, if you read the wording in that law, the law could just as easily be used as justification for the forcible "quarantine" of ANY group. If used in conjunction with martial law, it gets pretty frightening.

[maddezmom]

14. connected to the no-fly lists?

ya know the ones that you can't get off of because they won't tell you why you were put on them.

[kwolf68]

17. Wow

Think early 1930s...Germany.

[Snellius]

19. "Watch out for spies and provocateurs"

During the anti-Vietnam rallies, the organizers would always warn us to watch out for undercover agents. No one took them seriously. We all thought they were just paranoid from smoking too much dope. Years laters, after the Freedom of Information Act, we all found out we had FBI files longer than our hair. Who would have guessed. The pigs are back.

[Rich Hunt]

39. yep

They spied on nuns and other activists during the eighties as well. They've also monitored the global justice movement.

This is no surprise and it should never be a surprise.

[saigon68]

59. Gov't out of control

Sad

[madrchsod]

9. WOW!

now that`s really a scoop! dam drudge is right on top of it! like this hasn`t happened before or more to the point ,that we are to dumb to realize this is happening? drudge never ceases to surprize me with his non-breaking news stories...

[Eloriel]

38. Well, at least some rightwingers will be made aware of it now

Now, whether they CARE or not is another matter entirely.

Eloriel

[prolesunited]

10. Do these people look like terrorists to you?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Yes they do.

If your intent is to feed the MIC.

[mikehiggins]

13. WOW! Am I ever surprised? NOT! n/t

[prolesunited]

15. I'm sorry

What is MIC?

[number6]

26. my guess....

Military Industrial Complex

[RC]

16. What's a MIC?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. can we say "COINTELPOL"?

We seem to be going back to the days of COINTELPOL. Where "probable cause" is a nice term without any legal meaning. Can the abuses that helped end COINTELPOL back in the 1970's be far behind? Can dissent by you or groups you are in lead to a visit from the FBI? Will some groups be ignored while other groups are harrassed simply because they have a view point counter to the official govt. view point?

We should all be very worried.

[rumguy]

20. WTF?

I can understand the FBI monitoring large crowds of people near any government building, etc. But monitoring training and organization? That smacks of something sinister...it'll be interesting to see what Drudge's source is for this story. Sometimes he'll tease up a story to make it seem bigger than it actually is...

[Rich Hunt]

41. organization

No doubt they're monitoring or have even infiltrated a certain highly secretive "coalition" in the anti-war movement.

Next thing you know, the anti-war movement is being "managed" by spooks.

That is why openness and power sharing is essential in an anti-war movement - it makes this sort of stuff less likely.

[SpiralHawk]

63. Managed by Spooks. Youbetcha. Could happen.

Eeeek ! if it gets to that sorry state.

But in the end, it is all the more reason for individual citizens to be guided by their own intelligence, evaluation, and intution. To take the stances and the actions that they feel deepest in their hearts after deep and respectful contemplation - rather than to be seduced or bullied by demagogues into following some "brilliant" plan that they have cooked up.


"To thine ownself be true, this above all else. Then -- as night follows day -- thou can't be false to no one."
- Ye Olde Bard (W. Shakespeare)

"Don't follow leaders, watch your parking meters."
- Ye Newe Bard Bob Dylan

[schultzee]

52. I don't doubt for one moment that Bush will do this.

[Robb]

21. Most people in LE know this is lame....

...anyone with experience in law enforcement knows it's usually the quiet ones who are really dangerous. :eyes:

[Just Me]

22. So, what???

Screw 'em!!! It's not like they have never done this kind of crap before,...wasting time in paranoid fascist fashion. To hell with their Gestapo tactics and to hell with them!!!

Dilbert says not to take life too seriously since none of us get out of it alive anyway.

[Rich Hunt]

42. true

You should never let fear get in the way of your activities.

I know people who totally shut down because of fear and mistrust.

That is the whole point of this surveillance - to intimidate people into silence ... and some people fall for it.

[veganwitch]

23. this looks like a job for captain obvious

big fat "DUH!!!!"

there are reasons why the black bloc and other wear masks at thost protests.

[mumon]

24. Reminds me what I read by John Berger not long ago...(controversial)

It is in the nature of a mass demonstration that the demonstrators, want to be seen. Their very presence indicates a potential "other" to the "power in charge."

That very presence includes the possibility of another way, a way, in which, as a minimum the power of those who are "in charge" is not directed towards the issue at the heart of the demonstration.

It therefore implies the possibility that the "power in charge" may - and should- be restricted in its activities against which the demonstration is being held.

Naturally, that might just scare the bejesus out of a Ferdiand Marcos, an Augusto Pinochet, or a George W. Bush.

And so they're likely to scream "tair-ist!" in response.

Better they resign if their skin's that thin.

[mainer]

25. c'mon, guys. Don't you think we're ALL on the list?

by virtue of our posting here on DU?

[rumguy]

27. I can't imagine that.

That would be a major scandal.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

28. you just know they monitor D U !

I'm sure all anti Bush Data from every source is compiled so they can counter things with "dummy" events like Michael Jackson(to mask the U.K. protests), even Rush Limpbols' drug bulshit.

If they get patriot II they'll start sending us to Gitmo and other places.
Not being paranoid at all-
-I believe these guys have "big" plans for all those who stand in their way.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

56. You're kidding, right? One thing I learned many years ago is to...

...NEVER underestimate what some people are capable of doing. They have the technology to track every snail mail, phone call, fax, email and any other electronic transmission you can think of.

And thanks to the Patriot Act, they can do it all without warrants.

Thanks to Patriot Act II, they will be able to request anything on any individual without any prior approvals and/or warrants. Additionally.

[proud patriot]

29. Well , of course they are

When at a protest I yelled "bush kills Americans"
some dude snapped my picture . i figured that went
into some file somewhere . My dad told me at young age
that I would be watched my whole life , because both
my parents were activists in the sixies . The Government
knew I'd come of age eventually :shrug:

Tis part of the game

[Sven77]

30. camera woman

I was at a protest and this camera woman walked right up next to all the people and took a close up picture of everyone. Then when it was over we saw her get in a police van with a state trooper. It was even published in the paper. The police would not respond to questioning, are they tracking activists ? Seems pretty clear Ashcroft is behind all this protestor tracking.

[aquart]

33. We'd better be taking our own pictures of protesters.

So we can prove where they were when last seen.

[RainDog]

31. I have long assumed this is going on

..and that I have been checked out.

A visit from an FBI agent about a former neighbor, and who knows, that could have been the reason for the visit, certainly made that idea seem realistic.

I also assume that there are people who are "plants" to keep track of people.

Since the only thing I am doing is exercising my constitutional rights and trying to be a good citizen, they are free to waste their money on me, although I think they could use it in better ways.

If they did check me out, I also assume they have moved on by now, since I'm pretty boring as far as it all goes. Of course, if not, then not.

But it is surely a sad commentary on George Bush's America that he is such a terrible president he has to use Stalinist tactics against the people of this country because he cannot stand to be judged based upon his own actions.

It's also a terrific misuse of time and funds to stalk Americans who are simply pissed off with the unelected fraud while there are so many ways in which our country remains undefended from real threats to our liberties.

in fact, they should put John Ashcroft under house arrest until he can be medicated back into sanity. religious paranoia is a scary thing.

[aquart]

32. What did you THINK the Patriot Act was for?

It was always framed so that American citizens could be stripped of their rights and detained without trial for any act deemed "terroristic." That would be complaining about anything Bush does.

If you protest Bush or his war, you ain't a patriot and you ain't an American so bye bye.

And in 40 years they dig up the mass graves of the disappeared?

[Jacobin]

35. They've already got a file on me from the Vietnam days

Fork em.

Ain't intimidated.

[revree]

36. FASCISM HAS ARRIVED

Anyone want to hitchhike it to Canada while we still can?

[cthrumatrix]

37. and if you work overtime on protesting....no extra pay for you!

[eyesroll]

40. Kick with link

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/23/national/23FBI.html?ex=1070168400&en=67560367b7120964&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

WASHINGTON, Nov. 22 — The Federal Bureau of Investigation has collected extensive information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to report any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squads, according to interviews and a confidential bureau memorandum.

The memorandum, which the bureau sent to local law enforcement agencies last month in advance of antiwar demonstrations in Washington and San Francisco, detailed how protesters have sometimes used "training camps" to rehearse for demonstrations, the Internet to raise money and gas masks to defend against tear gas. The memorandum analyzed lawful activities like recruiting demonstrators, as well as illegal activities like using fake documentation to get into a secured site.

F.B.I. officials said in interviews that the intelligence-gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

...

But some civil rights advocates and legal scholars said the monitoring program could signal a return to the abuses of the 1960's and 1970's, when J. Edgar Hoover was the F.B.I. director and agents routinely spied on political protesters like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

[Cocoa]

45. videotaping is intimidation?

The memorandum discussed demonstrators' "innovative strategies," like the videotaping of arrests as a means of "intimidation" against the police.


Time to have their "if they don't have anything to hide..." line around on them.

[Junkdrawer]

43. Typical MO: Try to chill political involvement with an implied threat...

To quote Tim Robbins, 'A Chill Wind is Blowing in This Nation...'

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0416-01.htm

[dusty64]

44. Dissent is now

illegal. Why am I not surprised this is a direct byproduct of the "patriot act". Congress expanded this gutting of the Bill of Rights this week also under the radar. I know it passed with bipartisan support (surprise), anyone know the rollcall?

[Myra]

46. Those who plan rallies have learned firsthand

-That their phones start acting weird,
lots of clicks and such, and 1-2 days
before the rally will likely lose phone
service.

-They will have significant email problems.

-There will probably be an agitator in the
planning group(s) who makes it very hard to get
things done and puts everyone thru hell;
of course that's the point.

-There will be undercover cops at planning
meetings and in a "volunteer" capacity at the
rally. And they're not just there to watch;
they're there to urge illegal activity and try
to entrap the planners into breaking the law,
so that they can then be arrested for that crime.
They cause problems during the rally so the police
can bust heads and arrest people.

It's SOP, and clearly going to get worse.
And this is just for peaceful protests,
where there's a legal permit and the plan is
for speeches and a march and signs and chants.
Often there's a designated official police liason
in the planning group. Doesn't matter. They still
do most or all of the above.

[Melsky]

48. Police infiltration in Fresno

I have seen this related story posted on DU a few times, and it's chilling.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/7755585p-8694773c.html

The first hint that their group had been infiltrated came when they saw the dead man's picture in the newspaper.
The story about his demise in a motorcycle accident said his name was Aaron Kilner and that he had been a detective with the Fresno County Sheriff's Department.

But members of Peace Fresno, an anti-war group formed soon after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, had known the nice young man as Aaron Stokes, "the guy with the short hair and the goatee who sat in the corner," as one member described him.

[Myra]

50. Wow, that's a helluva article Melsky

Thanks for posting it.

A couple of points from the article I really
have to comment on:

"Investigations cannot take place simply because of a
group's political stance, he added, because that would
violate its right to free speech. Instead, probes can be
conducted only if there is reason to believe a crime is
being committed or planned."

BULLSHIT.
I've only been involved with peaceful legal protests,
and the undercover cops are a constant presence. Hell,
we know some by name (hi Adam!). They know damn well we're not
planning a crime.

(As an aside, it's sorta amazing that every undercover cop
*I'm aware of* looks exactly like...a cop. Short hair, real
clean cut looking. White. So much so that they immediately
make people suspicious. Then sure 'nuff, they turn out to be cops.)

"We've just gone and hung around with them," said Sacramento County Undersheriff John McGinness. "We have guys who look like other people in these groups would, and they just observe and take it in. We've got the same rights reporters have when they go watch these things."

BULLSHIT.
They're not just observing and cooperating to make it a peaceful
event.

They actively try to cause trouble at the rallies.
(Gee Adam, why'd you volunteer to be a peacekeeper then lead
the crowd into a dead end where they were trapped so that
the police could attack them?)

They actively pressure rally organizers to break the law,
i.e., entrap them.
(Gee Adam, why'd you try to get PersonX to steal expensive
radio headset equipment from his employer, knowing it'd be a felony?
Of course PersonX is not stupid and not a crook so he refused.)

I frankly wouldn't have a problem with the undercover cops if they
were only monitoring to prevent trouble, 'cause I don't want trouble
at my event either. But they don't "just observe and take it in."
They do everything they can to set up the organizers and destroy
the event.

[goforit]

49. The SS at work?..........LOL!!!!

Now this could be fun for set ups.

[Turbineguy]

51. Wait a minute!

Don't they have to take an oath to protect the Constitution?

[Skydiver]

53. What's Next?

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

[Room101]

55. Arrest me I'm a free thinking thought criminal 2+2=4

For you local law enforcement officials trolling how do you live with your self’s being the modern day political Gestapo. How do you sleep at night knowing you spy on peace and constitution loving patriots?

[wabeewoman]

57. Anyone remember a few years ago

there were all these right wing milia groups (Randy Weaver comes to mind) and the government was working hard to shut them down. They seemed pretty extremist and crazy at the time worrying about how the government was spying on them, black helicopers and all sorts of stuff. They were just a few years early. The FBI must have shut them all down as you don't hear anything from them now.

[IndianaGreen]

58. MSNBC: FBI collecting antiwar-group data

FBI collecting antiwar-group data

New York Times reports effort aimed at identifying anarchists

NEW YORK, Nov. 22 — The Federal Bureau of Investigation has been collecting information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators, The New York Times reported in Sunday editions.

IN A REPORT sourced to several interviews as well as a confidential bureau memorandum, the Times said that the law enforcement agency has also advised local officials that they should report to counterterrorism squads any suspicious activity at protests.

The memorandum, which was circulated to local law enforcement officials on Oct. 15 ahead of antiwar demonstrations in Washington and San Francisco, detailed how protesters have sometimes used “training camps” to rehearse, the Internet to raise funds and gas masks to defend against police use of tear gas, the newspaper reported.

The memo analyzed legal activities such as recruiting demonstrators, as well as illegal ones such as using false documentation to gain access to secured sites, it said.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/997088.asp?0cv=CB20

[VolcanoJen]

60. Kick!

:dem:

[lumpy]

64. Have you ever been fingerprinted?

Applied for a job with the US government? If so your identification is filed in the extensive banks of FBI information.

[dani]

65. great way to make America safer

waste time/energy/resources/taxpayer money spying on the American people rather than going after real terrorist threats.

By the way, the story just showed up on Yahoo's home page,
Yahoo News - F.B.I. Scrutinizes Antiwar Rallies
you can vote for the popularity rating if you want.

[tedzbear]

66. Here's the news story I found...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&e=2&u=/nyt/fbiscrutinizesantiwarrallies