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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:29 PM
Original message
Tsunami relief workers shocked (by NOLA recovery)
Tsunami relief workers shocked by 9th Ward tour, say they expected more signs of recovery

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl062306jbtsunami.b59c55fc.html

Two leaders of the Asian Coalition for Housing Rights who have spent the last 18-months helping victims of last year’s Tsunami took a walk through the Lower Ninth Ward Friday. Their reaction was one of shock, because they said they expected to see more signs of recovery from Hurricane Katrina.

“We think of America as being this fabulous, powerful superpower, and it’s exactly like Third World situations,” said Tom Kerr. “In my personal opinion, I think you should have done much, much faster. It should be much better than what I have seen today,” said Samsook Boonyabancha.

Their conclusion: hurricane victims face far more red tape from government and private industry than do the survivors of the tsunami. "We just sit together and we decide what we like to do together, and we find funding supporting the people, then we start to do it right away. It is much easier that way. Here your lives depend on the government’s plan, depends on the insurance company, and you keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting," said Boonyabancha.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another sign that crony capitalism does not work
to rebuild after disasters. This time the corruption is on our turf.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. They never came to govern. They came to exploit.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. agree -
nt
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Lot's of minorities (the unworthy) live there
They are lucky they got bottled water

</sarcasm>
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Stanchetalarooni Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Where's the profit in that?
"We just sit together and we decide what we like to do together, and we find funding supporting the people, then we start to do it right away. It is much easier that way.
So.....un-american.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. The treatment of the Gulf States since Katrina
has been shameful.

How many more ways can America be embarrassed by this crowd?
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RangerSmith Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. If you mean
everybody in office, I agree.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. So much for Bush**'s "ownership society"
The Lower Ninth Ward is perhaps the prime example of an urban neighborhood where substantial numbers of people living near or below poverty level are also homeowners.

And how many times has Bush** been to NOLA since 8/29/05? Eight? Nine? Has he been to Lower Nine even once? Could he even find it on a map? (Can he even read a map?) So much for his "commitment" to the ownership society, at least when the owners are the "wrong" kind of people... :grr:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. i want to kick your observation re: home ownership and the 9th ward.
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Amen...
And now they may not get to come back to their own property. It's a shame. Communities like that are hard to find.
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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Your point here peaked my interest
http://gnocdc.org/orleans/8/22/housing.html

"The Lower Ninth Ward has a higher rate of homeownership than the city as a whole."

Homeownership significantly higher than that in the rest of New Orleans


Owner occupied 59.0%(lower9) 46.5%(orleans parish) 67.9% (LA) 66.2% (US)
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Even Guiliani said that after touring the Ninth. People would not believe
what it's like over there. I've driven through the Ninth and Lower Ninth and Chalmette, and even areas like Gretna near the lake, and it's shameful. If this were a third world nation people would think it shameful. The leaders would be condemned, the world would scream out for their imprisonment. But it's America, and the media doesn't report it, and no one gives a damn. Forget burning the flag. BushCo has dropped it into a puddle of toxic mud and just left it there, soaked in blood and goo and sludge. There is no more flag to desecrate.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Gentilly, not Gretna, is near the lake
Gretna is a separate small city across the Mississippi. It is infamous as the place where police officers turned back evacuees at gunpoint, who were crossing the Crescent City Coonection bridge on foot because they had no other way out.

I almost didn't even want to niggle over such details because the rest of your post is so awesome! :yourock:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Stupid me!! I know the difference, but
I had typed a short comment about how Algiers and Gretna weren't affected, and then deleted it, and just wrote GRetna instead of Gentilly. NOT a minor detail!!
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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. "It's exactly like Third World situations"
except, in those countries, we'd be much further along in the recovery.


which is pretty much what he's saying there
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Welcome to 'Merika!
The BFEE would leave the world a SMOLDERING SHELL if left unchecked. Currently they run about unchecked. :(
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. But LA might go red now.
:cryingfuckingshame:
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm not shocked; I'm disgusted that conditions in NOLA and
elsewhere in the Gulf area are still, STILL in so much need. It is absolutely inexcusable that more has not been done. We spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives on the "war on terra", but the US Government pays scant attention to people in it's own back yard. I know why; I've said it before: it's because the residents of NOLA and the Gulf are not the "right" kind of people, for the most part. Many of them are lower and poverty level in terms of their financial situations, and many of them have the "wrong" color of skin. If these areas had been primarily rich, white enclaves, you can bet Bush and the boys would have sent money by the truckloads, and everything would be put back together, better than before.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. 1 thing that gets me is we're different but no better than anywhere else.
I truly thought that the USA could pull this together better, and am amazed and appalled at how far there is to go. Yes, there are changes, things are happening, but there is still so so so much left.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. It shocks me
that it shocks other people to find out how fucked up the US government is. :(
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
18. “ We think of America as being this fabulous, powerful superpower..."
That's because we have great propaganda and entrenched myths that not only indoctrinate our own citizens but spills over to other people around the world.

Use your illusions.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. Now if only the national CBS news would pick up that story.
NOLA and the Gulf Coast are lost from the national page but I think it would be a powerful reminder just how bad the governmental response has been.
It was and continues to be a national disgrace.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. Check out this RW email making the rounds...
Unfortunately, my sister is a big-time Kool-Aid guzzler:


Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu, is presently asking the Congress for $250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans.


Interesting number, what does it mean?


Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man, woman, child) you each get $516,528.00.


Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans, your home gets $1,329,787.00

Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets $2,066,012.00.


Washington, D.C. !!! .......................... Are all your calculators broken????
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Oh, man! It takes ignorance to believe this one.
It's not just people's houses that have to be repaired. Do these RW mouth breathers not realize that water and sewer systems, streets, and power lines have to be replaced, debris cleared, and levees reinforced?

They make it sound as if getting their neighborhoods destroyed was the best thing that ever happened to those (unspoken word: black) residents of New Orleans.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Remember what the RW Queen of Mean said:
"Most of these people were disadvantaged so this is working out quite well for them."

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recidivist Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. There's no urgency because we're doing something stupid.
We should not be rebuilding NOLA below sea level. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Ask around your office in a casual, non-political way. Don't make it a referendum on Mayor Nagin, Governor Blanco, President Bush, or anyone else you think should have fixed this by now. Just ask it as a neutral, non-political question: Do you think it makes sense to rebuild below sea level, or should we be rethinking where and how big the city should be?

I'll bet the overwhelming majority, if you take the short term politics out of it, will agree we shouldn't be recreating the conditions for another disaster. This is a classic example of how political stampedes lead us deep into the swamp. (Literally, in this case.) We are spending a gazillion dollars to rebuild levees that shouldn't have been built in the first place.

On top of that, it's clear that a lot of folks aren't coming back. Big parts of New Orleans were dead before the storm; the city was warehousing a lot of people who will be much better off in Houston or wherever -- growing cities rather than dying ones. They've figured that out by now, and they ain't coming back no matter how high we build the levees.

We should cut our losses now, buy out the property interests in the low-lying areas, dynamite the levees, and let the river reclaim its own. New Orleans will be a perfectly nice, although smaller, city up on the high ground. Nothing wrong with that.

Why does anyone think it's "compassionate" to rebuild the old city and put a lot of working class and poor people back in the path of another disaster? It's just a matter of time.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I thought that's what engineers were for. You know, like
the guys that keep the Netherlands habitable?
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Try this: Replace 'NOLA' with 'SF', and 'below sea level'
with 'on the San Andreas Fault'.

Now how does it sound? "We should not be rebuilding SF on the San Andreas Fault. Dumb, dumb, dumb.... Do you think it makes sense to rebuild on the San Andreas Fault, or should we be rethinking where and how big the city should be?... It's just a matter of time."

Not exactly the way to win friends and influence people, here at DU at any rate, I'd venture. What is it that makes NOLA somehow more expendable, in the eyes of so many?
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. i agree and i don't agree...
I see where the other poster is coming from. With the coming storm season and the increased intensity of the storms of the future (re. global warming), it just doesn't seem logical to me to try and rebuild the place again. Engineers can only do so much. I believe Mother Earth is stronger than any wall we can build. It IS only a matter of time.

As for the comparison to the SF area... it's valid, but i don't know whether the impending climate crisis is likely to affect earthquake frequency. SF residents have to live with the fact that they cold be in for a doozy (my uncle lives very near, he says some people GET it, others just don't think about the possibilty)... if the quakes rock them who knows what could happen? They may consider reassessing their commitment to the area.

I disagree with the other poster using the phrase "dumb, dumb, dumb"... because i recognise how people are passionate about this issue and what NO evokes in them... as well as the debacle that was the * response to devastation. The situation just fucking sucks. But i still think... i wouldn't put my family below sea level and in the sure path of future hurricanes.

Change, though sometimes heartbreaking, can be good.

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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. not quite a good comparison
since hurricanes could hit the Gulf Coast every year, and earthquakes strike infrequently (say once per century in a given location).

I will continue to take my chances here with earthquakes, rather than elsewhere with hurricanes. The year-to-year odds are simply better.
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recidivist Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. "We" wouldn't have to rebuild SF.
San Francisco is a vibrant, competitive city with a world class port and a spectacular natural setting. Sure it has problems, the biggest of which is probably the cost of housing. That is a tribute to the vitality of the place. A lot of people want to live there. A quake probably wouldn't change that, at least not for long.

(Mind you, I don't want to live there. I was there once, for one day, and that was enough. As far as I can tell, coastal Cali is just one long traffic jam and I can do without it.)

So suppose a quake wrecked SF. We'd bulldoze the wreckage, toughen up the building standards, and private investors -- individuals and businesses both -- would snap up the land. The city would be rebuilt very rapidly. It wouldn't look the same and the neighborhoods would be rearranged, but the location is too desirable to pass up. We wouldn't be sitting around waiting for the government subsidy machine to do all the work. It wouldn't be necessary.

Now we come to the important point that most folks overlook. In at least one important respect, EXACTLY the same thing has already happened in New Orleans as would happen in SF after another quake. The economically viable parts have already been fixed. The Mississippi River and Gulf Coast ports are vital. The Port of New Orleans is just one of several and is actually rather far down the list, but the regional port complex is huge and important. The ports were up and running very quickly post-Katrina. Government didn't have to do much. The same is true of the refineries and offshore drilling platorms. These suffered major damage but they have been put back into operation as fast as the crews can repair them.

The point is, if it's really important, it gets fixed.

What then is the problem in NO? Well, as noted above, the economically significant things are already back in business. What we are stewing about now is the "legacy" city -- all the relics of a bygone age, colorful but no longer economically viable. New Orleans is a city in serious, long-term decline. The legacy city was subsisting on fumes even before Katrina. Why rebuild this?

I am not being disrespectful to New Orleans. There are many cities in decline. Suppose the New Madrid fault broke and wiped out East St. Louis, which is the biggest urban joke in the country unless things have changed recently. Would we rebuild it or say good riddance? How much of the other St. Louis -- the big one -- would we rebuild? Probably more, but not all of it. Suppose Godzilla emerged from Lake Michigan and stomped Gary and East Chicago into the ground. (Could we be so lucky?) Would we rebuild them in more-or-less their current form? Not a chance.

Here's the unified field theory of all this:

Most cities grow initially for location-dependent reasons. Most of the biggest ones historically have been ports. Pittsburg is where it is because it was cheaper to move the iron ore to the coal than the other way around. The economics of transportation are a common denominator in most cases.

However, if the city prospers and grows, it then acquires two more things. The smaller but more prominent of these is the "endowed sector." Perhaps "status sector" is a better term. This consists of the universities, museums, theaters, orchestras, philanthropic and civic good works of all kinds. These institutions exist because of the wealth created by the primary economy but over time they acquire a gravity and staying power of their own. Their location is an historical accident but they are often too big to move easily so they become fixtures of the landscape.

In addition, the city acquires a service economy, the location of which is utterly arbitrary. There are the shopping malls, groceries, restaurants, dry cleaners, realtors, construction firms, fast food joints, etc. They exist simply because there are a lot of people around to buy things, but they could be anywhere. Move the people, and they will move as well.

One of the interesting things that happens as cities age is that sometimes the original, location-dependent rationale disappears or at least erodes in significance. When this happens, the city may continue to thrive if its existing infrastructure and civic amenities continue to make it a desirable location for location-independent businesses. But aside from the sunk cost of infrastructure, there is really no reason for anyone to be in that particular location any longer. As long as I don't need a deep water port, there are a lot of places I can put my widget factory or outlet shopping center.

In the modern American, service-dominated economy, most people work in this third sector. This is what has been displaced in New Orleans. There is absolutely no reason the strip mall economy has to be in location X instead of location Y. And there is a very good reason not to spend huge sums of money trying to reverse Mother Nature's handiwork. If large numbers of people want to come back to the New Orleans area, fine. But move the strip malls, movie theaters, and McDonald's to higher ground a few miles back from the river. Granted, that may not be within the city limits of historical New Orleans, let alone the lower Ninth Ward, but that is irrelevant. Build somewhere safe. If people want to tempt Mother Nature, let them do it with their own money.

P.S. Just so you know I'm consistent on this: I'm one of those cranks who is opposed to subsidizing rebuilding on barrier islands and coastal strips on the Atlantic Coast as well. Every time we get a big hurricane, the cry goes up that it's dumb, dumb, dumb to rebuild the condos on the barrier islands. And it is. It's just as dumb to rebuild NO below sea level.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Sounds Like an Excuse
for doing nothing at all.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. We're a failure even by third world standards.
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