Former jail nurse says Yates was psychotic

[superconnected]

HOUSTON - Andrea Yates stared at her cell wall the day after she drowned her five children in a bathtub and appeared to be talking to someone who wasn't there, a psychiatric nurse testified Friday.

John Bayliss, who worked in the mental health unit of the Harris County Jail, testified in Yates' second murder trial that the suburban Houston woman slowly turned to look at him only after he repeatedly called out her name. She then turned back to the wall and continued rapidly mumbling and picking at her hair, he said.

"(It) is something I had not observed in any other patient I had dealt with," Bayliss said.

more...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060630/ap_on_re_us/yates_trial

---------

Yep, batshit crazy.

[Poll_Blind]

1. I am not sure the nurse is qualified to make that diagnosis. However,...

...it's still another behavior in a string of disturbing and heartbreaking behaviors by Yates.

PB

[phylny]

29. It doesn't appear that the nurse DID make a diagnosis, just that the

nurse described behaviors, according to this article (the link provided by the OP did not match up).

Nurses and other professionals write SOAP notes (Subjective, Objective, Assessment, Plan) and what I read is this nurse was describing the subjective and objective parts - how the patient seemed to appear and what could be objectively recorded.

http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=5100971&nav=0s3d

(edited for clarity)

[Breeze54]

2. What was their first clue?

maybe...er, I don't know. Drowning all her kids in a bathtub?? :sarcasm:




:crazy:

[stellanoir]

3. I'm of the belief that all murder

with the possible exception of incidents of self defense or defense of one unable to defend themselves, is INSANITY.

Her psychiatrists and immediate family members are as if not more culpable than she.

The guilt she must be living with is punishment enough. This case has been an absolute travesty for all involved.

[atreides1]

4. ?????????

"Her psychiatrists and immediate family members are as if not more culpable than she."


How so?

[stellanoir]

9. Because she had a history of mental illness and there

were all sorts of warning signs and they knew she had gone off her meds and was single handedly home schooling 5 kids under incredible stress.

There was also some influence of a fundi Christian cult guy as well.

She thought she was saving them from a wicked world.

If memory serves she was either going through post partum depression or getting over a miscarriage or something and clearly was imbalanced.

She really needed help.

[Lindacooks]

11. Yep, you're right. The crime here was ignoring her illness

and her unmet needs.

[DixieBlue]

17. She had apparently gone through

postpartum depression with several of her children and, if I'm remembering right, had gone through it after having the little girl.

Most of the psychiatrists I've talked to seem to think she was in a state called postpartum psychosis ... it's the very extreme end of postpartum depression.

That other woman in Texas, the one who cut off her baby's arms, also apparently suffered from postpartum psychosis as well.

[Ecumenist]

38. Amen, Stella..

That's what I've been saying from day 1. Her family and health providers KNEW she was off and yet, they not only chose to take her off her meds but leave her ALONE with her children.

[Kipling]

6. You think they should let her off!?

Does the same go for any murderer/rapist/child abuser/whatever?
The attitude seems to be that any mother who kills her children must be insane. I don't buy it, although it may be true in this particular case.

[Lindacooks]

12. Nobody is talking about 'any murderer/rapist/...'

We're talking about this one particular case.

And yes, I do believe that most mothers who kill their children has to be insane; the maternal bond and instinct for protection is just too strong to be overwhelmed by anything other than severe mental illness.

[Kipling]

14. The poster specifically said "all murder" was insanity.

And insanity is outside the law.

[Breeze54]

15. That's false.

"the maternal bond and instinct for protection".

It's learned, not inherent or instinctive.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. I agree with you

There are far too many lousy and uncaring mothers out there for me to believe that the instinct is that powerful.

[wryter2000]

13. Do you want to do away with the insanity defense?

Because if you don't, she's clearly not guilty by reason of insanity. That doesn't mean I want all murderers to get off. Only people who were so impaired by their mental illness they couldn't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

[fujiyama]

32. If a person was so impaired by mental illness

would it be in society's interest to have that person get off? I don't think murderers (except in the case of self defense), should be set free.

Murder is one crime that should forfeit the purpotrator's right to lead a normal life. I suppose it is worth questioning whether or not she (or others with possible mental illness) should be with the prison population at large though.

[wryter2000]

34. No one's talking about set free

If the person is a danger to others or themselves, they belong in a hospital, not a prison.

IMHO, it's unjust in the extreme to treat Andrea Yates the same way we treat Richard Allen Davis.

On edit: I did use the phrase "get off." That certainly sounds like "set free." That's not what I meant at all, and I apologize for being so wrong-headed in my choice of words.

[stellanoir]

16. I don't think incarceration is correctional or a remedy for anything.

I just think our penal system is terribly broken. I believe in rehabilitation and rectification. This may sound extreme, but I'd rather see her sterilized than incarcerated for life in truth.

When she wasn't whacked out she was reportedly a dutiful and attentive mom.

She just totally lost it. And the warning signs were evident if anyone was truly paying attention.

No it doesn't go for all murderers/ rapists/ child molesters etc.

But with the technology available today home confinement and monitoring would be far more cost effective than costing tax payers $30,000- $70,000 per inmate per year for mostly non violent offenders who wouldn't normally even make that much per year.

For anyone to think that killing someone else would solve anything is insanity to me. Rapists can be rehabilitated through counseling and hormonal therapies. Child molesters were often victims themselves and need some serious help.

I know my attitude is extreme but I would much prefer to see deviant folks healed than locked up for life. Yup I'm a deluded optimist.

[Bridget Burke]

22. She is NOT going to be let off.

If she "wins" this case, she will go to a mental hospital for an unspecified period. The state hospital is Rusk--a rather grim place.

Since her incarceration, she's had times when she gets "better." Then she remembers what she did, becomes seriously depressed & is put on suicide watch. She will NEVER be "let off."

[merci_me]

27. You've said it exactly right!! n/t

[tblue37]

30. Even if she were to be freed,

which isn't going to happen, I bet she would suicide the moment she had a chance.

[TheDebbieDee]

8. I agree with you........

that her scuzzy-assed SANE husband (Rusty?) should have been tried for being negligent or indifferent to the danger posed to the children.

I don't have any links to articles or anything, but remember hearing some of Andrea's relatives complaining that Rusty was keeping distance between Andrea and family members that wanted to help out........

[Bridget Burke]

20. He's her ex-husband now.

And he remarried this year.

Yesterday, the Chronicle reported that the judge had instructed him to STOP talking to the media.

[LiberalVoice]

23. WTF?

And on what do you base that wild assumption?

[fujiyama]

31. But ultimately

SHE commited the crime.

If she was suffering from postportum depression (which it's obvious she was), she should have gone out of her way to get help. Granted, she was in a bizarre relationship with a wacko fundy husband but in the end she is responsible for killing her kids. She didn't confide with anyone, and it led to the horrific crime.

Either way, I don't see how this should change her sentence. I don't think anyone will argue she should be set free - and anyone that is, is a fool.

[Marie26]

35. There's a difference, though

She wasn't depressed - she was pyschotic. People in a psychotic state aren't able to consider the options or figure out how to find help. They've lost all contact with reality. The people around her should have put her under psychiatric care or commitment if necessary; not leave her alone w/5 small children. I don't think she should be set free; but I don't think that she should go to jail either. Not guilty by reason of insanity seems like the right verdict here.

[Ecumenist]

39. Fujiyama...

I have to respectfully dissent and ask a common sense question--She'd "nutted" out. How was she was supposed to seek help? She wasn't operating on the same level reality as 9/10's that the human race was living in.

[Ecumenist]

40. Fujiyama...

I have to respectfully dissent and ask a common sense question--She'd "nutted" out. How was she was supposed to seek help? She wasn't operating on the same level reality as 9/10's that the human race was living in.
Saying that she should have "gone out of her way to seek help" is like telling a paraplegic that they must insist on finding a trainer for the 100 meter sprint. :banghead:

[0007]

36. Absolutely!!

Rusty must be a mighty whippy fluky number himself and yet the law says Rusty is healthy.....Hmmm

[leftofthedial]

5. all christians appear

"to be talking to someone who wasn't there"

:shrug:

[mitchum]

24. Indeed!

[superconnected]

7. She thought Bush was going to save us from Satan.

Ewww. Boy has she got the world backwards.

[Ilsa]

10. Of course, the nurse may also be board certified in psychiatric

nursing, in which case I give his testimony a very high degree of credibility and reliability.

[Richard Steele]

18. I allowed for that possibility as well, but then....

...that went out the window when he said:
"(It) is something I had not observed in any other patient I had dealt with,"

Regardless of what training he may have had,
if he had truly never seen such behavior before, then he's
obviously NOT qualified to diagnose it.

The guy ADMITS this was new to him; something he had
ZERO experience with.
Certainly he can DESCRIBE her behaviors as he saw them,
but draw conclusions about her psychiatric state? No way.

[amandabeech]

19. I agree with you on psychiatric nurses.

They receive 1 or 2 years of training beyond their B.S. in nursing, plus an internship. That much training is not much different from training leading to a Licensed Clinical Social Worker or other masters level therapists, although the psychiatric nurse probably learns more about the severe mental illness seen in a hospital.

The masters degreed nurses serve ably in many areas of our health care system, including midwives, anesthesiologists and general nurse practitioners who care for and prescribe medicine for many of the common minor illnesses and injuries.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Several people who knew Ms Yates will testify.

Some are giving "conclusions" but all of them are reporting what they saw & heard. It's up to the jury to decide.

Dr Park Dietz testified at her first trial. I'm sure he's got an impressive CV.

Park Dietz & Associates (PD&A) is a forensic consulting firm that brings together the talents of 27 leading authorities in a variety of related disciplines. The rapid growth of the knowledge base in the forensic sciences has increased the need for subspecialization and often requires a team approach to the evaluation of cases. PD&A provides clients with rapid access to an unparalleled depth and breadth of expertise on human behavior. Each PD&A expert has a national or international reputation in specific substantive areas. When the issues in a particular case warrant working together in teams, PD&A experts can address a broader range of issues at a higher level of expertise than could any one expert alone.

www.parkdietzassociates.com/

The Esteemed Dr Dietz said that Ms Yates had obviously been influenced by an episode of Law & Order for which he was a consultant. A woman killed her kids & claimed that God told her to do it. Later investigation revealed there was no such episode. The trial was invalidated.

[Lost-in-FL]

26. There are different kinds of Nurse Practitioners

There's OBGYN, ER, and even Mental Health. If I am not mistaken, they are somehow like PA's.

See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_practitioner

[Lost-in-FL]

25. I wonder when her ex-husbands' trial will start

Come on, he is guilty of manslaughter. You just can't leave kids with an insane woman.

[Hekate]

33. I wonder if he'll ever acknowledge his own part in this tragedy

Didn't he remarry? I've lost track of the story, but if I recall correctly Mr. Yates never thought his own behavior had anything to do with his wife going completely over the edge and killing her babies.

The entire family colluded in her collapse, imo. Everyone knew she had a psychotic break after the *first* pregnancy, yet all of them -- her mom and dad, her husband, his mom and dad -- expected her to just pick up and go on as if nothing had occurred. Andrea was expected to take care of all of them and be perfect, and no one took care of her. One article related how, after a couple more pregnancies, she became nearly catatonic and her husband walked her to the car and kind of folded her limbs in one by one in order to take her to the doctor. It's an image that really stays with me.

Yet her husband was absolutely certain she was fit to homeschool their children, which meant she had NO respite for even a few hours a day.

Whenever I see her name in print I say a prayer for that poor tormented soul. She may never know peace until death takes her.

Hekate

[NYC]

37. Yes, he remarried.

He married a woman who appears to be of childbearing age. Struck me as a very bad idea.