Missing migrants put area farms in tight spot (Wash. State)

[kskiska]

WOODLAND --- A third of Jerry Dobbins' 155-acre strawberry crop rotted on the vine this year. His blueberry bushes are so heavy with fruit that the branches are hanging near the ground.

There is no one to pick them.

Dobbins Farm in Woodland is one of many farms across the state facing a huge labor shortage this growing season, as tighter security along the U.S.-Mexico border has crimped the supply of Latino migrant farm workers.

The strawberry harvest, one of the hardest fruits to pick because of it's low proximity to the ground, has already come and gone at Dobbins' farm, the largest of its kind in Southwest Washington. Now Dobbins is worried that his other crops will suffer a similar fate.

(snip)

"I personally can tell you, where I need 300 workers a day, I haven't had one Caucasian person knock on my door and say, 'I want to work for you.' I couldn't do this without the Hispanic people," Thoeny said. "Fifteen years ago we would have a steady stream of young people coming to us to ask for a job. This year, we didn't have one Caucasian person come to us," added Dobbins.

more…
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2006/07/09/top_story/news01.txt

[SpiralHawk]

1. Another BushCo failure

Bush and his corrupt republicon cronies could screw up a free lunch

[OregonBlue]

25. The immigrants are probably working construction and landscaping

which pays much better. It's just not true that it's because of the border crackdown. I live in a fruit ranching area and we have just as many immigrants as ever. Only difference is, they're no longer picking fruit and they're no longer seasonal. They are here all year and they are working as construction workers, road workers, ranch hands, etc.

[pokercat999]

51. Heard the same thing about the Florida orange crop.

Still lots of oranges on the tree no one to harvest them. There the govt/msm blamed it on illegals returning to Mexico because they were afraid of their chance to get legal status when the guest worker program starts. The other more believable scenario is that they are working construction jobs.

[OregonBlue]

63. Yes, the "seasonal" workers don't leave here any more. They stay

and get permanent jobs. Most no longer want to pick fruit. It is really hard work. Pays well only if you really bust your back.

[wakeme2008]

2. Oh Jerry Dobbins

How much are you paying to work for you.... Maybe if you paid a living wage you could get Caucasians to apply...

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. If they paid pickers a living wage...

That pint basket of strawberries would cost $8 at the supermarket. Are you willing to pay that much?

[wakeme2008]

6. It would add very little to the cost of stawberries....

50 cents a pint maybe....

[bleedingheart]

15. strawberries are harder to pick...since leaves obscure berries

and you pick just a few in each hand per time...blueberries are easy when ripe...and you can get a bunch at a time if you position the bowls or baskets just right...

[primavera]

20. In your dreams

Labor is the primary cost in any agricultural undertaking - it's not like what's driving up the cost of strawberries is the national scarcity of strawberry seeds or the skyrocketing cost of fertilizer, no, it is all about the labor. Nor is agriculture an economic sector with wide profit margins which can be cut into if need be; nope, agriculture is a pretty lean sector already, there's little fat to trim. So increasing the cost of labor will increase the cost of goods dramatically.

Mind you, that's probably not a bad thing: we Americans have got to get over this obsession with low prices - we're producing an economy in which only the most draconian, cut-rate, MalWart-type chain stores can remain competitive in their prices. But don't kid yourself, raising agricultural wages will produce a substantial increase in the cost of agricultural goods.

[bleedingheart]

29. strawberries are a perennial crop...you don't seed the fields like

wheat....blueberries are grown on bushes...once planted...a bit of fertilizer and some pruning and they will yield for years...

So the cost is in the labor and the upkeep...that is true...BUT what do you think they pay migrants to pick per hour? They are paid on yield (how many bushels they pick) or an hourly rate...

I am betting they make very very little...as little as 10 cents per pint depending on the area...

[primavera]

35. I wish I knew

I honestly do not know how much agricultural workers make, immigrant or native. I have heard accounts of workers getting paid between $10-15/hr to pick produce in some parts of the country, which, if true, would certainly be higher than the MalWart serfs working 50 hour work weeks to receive $7/hr for the 30 hours MalWart's actually willing to put on the books. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that migrants are being paid far less than minimum wage, I don't know whether that's true or not.

[bleedingheart]

37. The reason illegal immigrants are hired is because they won't tell

for fear of deportation.

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/news-35/1152141864326040.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

read this article and you can tell that something went wrong and the suit was settled.

My mother's family were dairy farmers, and relied on seasonal help to bring in the silage.
Good farmers paid well and typically boarded their workers and provided food.

Bad farmers did very little...but pay a wage.

[primavera]

39. Sure, but how do most employers know?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be obtuse and I don't dispute that there are certain advantages for unscrupulous employers to hiring undocumented aliens. But how does the average employer set about recruiting a solely undocumented workforce? What, do you take out ads in the local papers saying "Legally present workers need not apply"? If US citizen workers show up to work, do you kick them off the site because they're here legally? I'm sure there are some businesses out there which rely upon labor contractors who can control whom they hire, thus ensuring a 100% illegal workforce, but I'd be very surprised if that was typical for how agriculture's labor needs were met. I imagine it tends to work more along the lines of a business advertising that it will pay $X/hr for day labor (an amount which - once advertised and in writing - would have to at least meet minimum wage under the law) and then they pay whatever that wage is to whomever shows up.

[bleedingheart]

42. immigrants find them and they also use services...

for example...ever see signs offering "Day Work"..."Cash paid today for your work"

[Viva_La_Revolution]

58. report of wages in Ohio 2003

Tomato
automated farms - $5.15 to $7 per hour (weeding and planting, running the harvest machine)
hand pick farms - $.45 to $1.00 per 50 lb. basket.

Cucumbers - growing season $5.15 per hour
Harvest - pd. on weight and size of the cucumber, approx $1.00 per 35 lb. basket of dill pickle size.

Pumpkins - $5.15 - $7 per hour

Bell Peppers - $.30 per basket ($5.15-$6 an hour)

Strawberries - $.30 per pint

http://jfs.ohio.gov/agriculture/Ombudsman_Report_2004.pdf

[jwirr]

22. They are too high for many of us already.

[bleedingheart]

32. prices are high when fruit being sold is out of season for the area

I live in an agricultural state...

When blueberries are in season...they sell for as little as $2 a pint...sometimes you can get em for less than that...

When they are out of season they cost $5 a pint.

Why...because they are being shipped from far out of state...perhaps Texas ...or perhaps from S. America...

Eating seasonally helps reduce your fruit bill....

[jwirr]

55. I live on less than $600 a month - and there has been no cheap

fruits except apples in our area all year long.

[bleedingheart]

14. bull...I have picked blueberries...you can pick a hell of a lot of

pints of blueberries in an hour...especially once you pick up speed....If you paid $8/hr to pickers..there would be a fair amount of Americans who would do it...

In fact the prices you are being charged at the grocery store are way too high given what they pay pickers...even if you take into consideration the packaging and shipping costs..

[wakeme2008]

16. Right...

Strawberries and I am sure blueberrys farms open up to self pickers. I know they do in Florida. You can pick a pint of strawberries in less than two minutes, if you are not looking for the "best" ones.


Even at $8 per hour that is only 13 cents per minute. So if it took you 5 minutes per pint, that would be only 65 cents in labor cost... That does not subtract out the current cost.

[bleedingheart]

17. and when you are farming fruit..you pick it ALL...and those that

are damaged or not as "pretty"...go into jam and jelly production....the pretty stuff is put in containers to be sold in stores...the pickers don't do the sorting...

perhaps if more people actually worked on a farm and did some of these chores they would realize what these tasks are like...

It is back breaking work, and it should pay a decent wage.

[jwirr]

23. I have worked on a farm pulling weeds out of the bean fields in Iowa

but I still know that I cannot even afford berries now even at WalMart - any raise in price will end a lot of access for poorer people - but then who gives a s*** about poor families unless they are farm laborers?

[bleedingheart]

27. I think all injustice against low wage earners is wrong...

why should folks at Wal-Mart make nothing while the Wal-Mart heirs through tens of millions at artwork?

I come from union stock...my grandfather fought hard for them in the coal mines...due to his efforts and others like him (including their wives and women like Mother Jones) men and women in Union mines got paid fair wages with benefits...

[jwirr]

28. I also come from Union. But I have a different slant when it comes

to food. You die without it. Whereas, coal, steel, etc. can be optional to the poor. Also, on edit, government programs that subsidize the basic needs for many of the poor would have to go up to offset the raise in prices. Example: energy assistance, food programs, etc. With these programs in effect then the living wage would work in vital areas.

[mccoyn]

18. $8? Are you nuts?

If a pint of strawberries costs $5 now, that means the cost of local labor is $3 a pint. I'm sure the rate for picking strawberries is at least 10 pints an hour, which means, by your assertion the local labor costs an additional $30/hour per person.

[unlawflcombatnt]

46. What? Is this the "new math"?

If a pint of strawberries costs $5, and the cost of picking them is 65 cents per pint (based on the previous poster's estimate of $8/hour at a rate of 5 minutes per pint, or 12 pints per hour), the labor is not going to be "$3/pint." It costs 65 cents per pint, meaning the rest of the cost is not going to labor. And if the wages of strawberry pickers were doubled (to $16/hour,) it would add another 65 cents per pint to the cost of strawberries. If that cost was passed on entirely to consumers, strawberries would cost $5.65/pint, instead of $5.00/pint.

That seems like a small price to pay to improve the lot of legal American workers.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Viva_La_Revolution]

36. they get 30cents per pint

you could double their pay and barely notice it at the grocery store.


edit: link

http://jfs.ohio.gov/agriculture/Ombudsman_Report_2004.pdf

[Richard Steele]

53. Fuel costs have already raised produce prices far more...

...than paying a living wage ever could.

And now SHORTAGES due to lack of labor are going to drive them up again.

[unlawflcombatnt]

44. Minuscule increase in cost of produce by hiring Americans

According to economist Philip Martin of the University of California at Davis, whose information is published in the New York Times, significant increases to the pay of farm workers would add only 2-3 cents per dollar to the cost of produce.



Hiring of illegal immigrants does almost nothing to keep prices down. It just reduces labor costs so that farmers have larger profits margins.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[jwirr]

21. And if he pays a living wage for picking strawberries can you

afford to buy them? I can't afford them now. I do think that when immigrants take jobs in construction, packing plants, disaster clean up such as in NO it hurts US workers but I think there should be some program that assists food producers use of cheaper labor in order to keep a healthy diet on all American tables. When we pay a living wage for this work then many of us who are poor will go without.

[primavera]

24. That's the vicious cycle alright

The more we demand cheaper prices, the more businesses will make cuts in worker compensation in order to be able to provide demanded cheaper prices, thus creating more working poor people who, in turn, really need even cheaper prices in order to be able to keep food on their table, so will, ironically, give their meagre supply of hard-earned consumer dollars to the very cut-rate discounters who made them poor to begin with. That cycle can't go on indefinitely; sooner or later, prices have to increase to the point where businesses will pay workers a living wage. Unfortunately, the "free market" doesn't seem to be capable of making this correction for itself, being for its part quite content to simply let the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

[unlawflcombatnt]

48. Bypassing the "Free Market" for labor.

Part of the reason is that business and Corporate America are being allowed to bypass the free market for labor and hire illegal immigrants at less than free market prices/wages. With 7 million illegal immigrants employed in the United States, this makes a big difference in wages. According to economist George Borjas, it amounts to a 4% annual suppression of American wages, or about $1700/year. Add that to the decreased labor demand caused by the outsourced loss of 3 million jobs in the last 5 years, and you've got major downward pressure on wages.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[bbgrunt]

41. How about living wages for ALL and food subsidies for the poor.

[unlawflcombatnt]

43. Amen

That's exactly what the problem is. Raise wages enough and you'll have plenty of workers. Offer ridiculously low wages and no Americans will work for you.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[treestar]

54. The employer is going to hire the available person who will

work for less. They're not going to raise wages just to get people who were born in America.

And there is no way to enforce all the laws we already have. How many people are gonig to work for the government? More than half?

The free market goes across borders. The capitalist can go across borders. If he's not a farmer, he can move his whole operation to workers who will work for less. We have to compete with the rest of the world, but restrict ourselves to certain borders while the capitalists can go wherever they want.

The workers are the ones that need to lobby against the restrictions in any country.

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. Yes, and get a reputation for paying crappy wages...

... and people will stop inquiring about jobs in your industry.

That's what's going on in agriculture today, teams of illegals move from farm to farm, effectively shutting out individuals - often kids looking for summer work (who also have the additional disadvantage that they might say something if paid less than the legal minimum wage).

[gratuitous]

4. I'm sure folks won't mind paying $5 a pound for broccoli

Or $7.50 for tomatoes. A small sacrifice, but one I'm sure folks will be willing to pay to make sure that their produce wasn't picked by some stinkin' illegal immigrant.

[wakeme2008]

7. It would add very little to the cost

Think how many tomatoes you could pick in an hour........

[calico1]

8. Funny how you hear people say that,

That will last until they go to buy a head of lettuce and it costs $6.

[KKKarl is an idiot]

12. What makes sense

Okay lets say people are willing to pay $7.50 for tomatoes (amazing how you come to this conclusion when people complain about $3.00 a gallon gasoline). Then we would need to increase the minimum wage to offset these new higher prices. But the repubs don't want to do that. It will lower investment, according to them (I think in China because that is where companies are investing now). The logical thing to do will be to allow most of these people to become citizens & establish a law that allows immigrants into the country each year to do these jobs. We cannot only bring doctors in who are not coming here to pick fruit. We will then have a gradual increase in prices. Tax revenues will also increase thereby offsetting some the debt we have created. It could also mean tax cuts for patriotic middle class Americans.

[primavera]

64. Inflation is the tricky bit

I think this is something often overlooked in discussions about minimum wage issues: if you increase the minimum wage, the cost of goods and services simply goes up to compensate for the increase in wages. So if a minimum wage worker goes from making $20K/year to making $40K/year, but, the cost of goods and services doubles, how has that individual's relative buying power changed? Admitted, this is a free market argument and, like most free market arguments, I'm pretty sure it's flawed in some way, but to some degree it makes intuitive sense to me that if you increase the cost of labor, the cost of goods and services prodced by that labor is also going to go up, that's just common sense, right?

So how do you increase wages without triggering inflation in the cost of goods and services? In a way, I think the real problem we face in this country runs far deeper than prices and wages: the real issues are buying power and standard of living - prices and wages are just indicators, and perhaps not very reliable indicators, or those basic priorities. And ultimately, how much can buying power and standard of living change when 80% of the wealth in this country is owned by 2% of the population?

Frankly, I'm very skeptical that anything will seriously change until we start making inroads against the feudal level of income inequality which exists in this country. But you can't even breath a whisper of that without Amurikans jumping all over you and calling you a commie pinko. But it's the 800lb gorilla we're refusing to recognize. By any system of measurement you care to employ, the US has a vastly greater chasm between rich and poor than any other modern, industrialized economy. And as long as we insist on pretending that that has no bearing on standards of living, our economy will continue to be characterized by these sorts of problems.

[Vogon_Glory]

5. Contrary To Wingnutz' Expectations...

Contrary to right wingnutz' expectations, the inner-city welfare cases they fantasize about didn't all rush out to the hinterlands to pick fruit and strawberries at poverty-level wages.

[kskiska]

10. …nor live in the housing provided for migrants.

My former S.O. had a temporary job going out to peach farms in SC and inspecting housing conditions. Very few Americans would want to live there.

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. I would dearly love to see every Rep and Senator in the fields for a week

And every Faux commentator, especially Bill O`Lielly, spend a full six and a half day work week picking strawberries under the exact same conditions endured by migrant pickers, earning exactly the same money and living under the exact same conditions.

Until you have walked a mile in the other person's shoes....

[wakeme2008]

19. former Senator Bob Graham has picked tomatoes for a day

One of the things ppl loved about BG was his one day a month real work day. Even as gov he did this. He has pick tomatoes, handled luggage at an airport, flipped burgers at Mickey Dees.... :)

[jwirr]

26. They couldn't afford the gas!

[NickB79]

38. With gas at $3/gallon, they'de burn half their day's pay in travel

Unless the farmers want to pick up the tab for buses to and from the inner city to the farms....

Yeah right.

[checkmate1947]

9. BS

What he forgot to tell you is can't find a truck to move them
for what he wants to pay for transportation, most and I mean
75% of the cost of $5.00 a pound strawberries is in
transportation, it is in the fuel folks not in the workers,
and migrants won't go that far north when they can do the
samething 1200 hnd miles south. there is an old saying
"you get what you PAY for"

[Judi Lynn]

13. Holy smokes! I had just read the same problem exists in Florida

only moments before seeing your article concerning Washington. Looks like this is VERY large.

Here's the situation playing out on the other side of the country:

Labour shortage leaves Florida's oranges to rot

Associated Press in Lakeland
Monday July 10, 2006
The Guardian

Millions of oranges will rot on the trees of Florida this year because a shortage of fruitpickers has been aggravated by fears about more stringent US immigration laws, local media reported yesterday.

"There's very little doubt we'll leave a significant amount of fruit on the tree," Mike Carlton, the director of production and labour affairs at Florida Citrus Mutual, told the newspaper The Ledger. "Whether that's 3m boxes or 6m boxes, nobody can say."

Growers have reported difficulty finding enough workers. Industry officials say labour problems got worse in the middle of May, when a large segment of the Hispanic labour force seemed to leave the state.

They said reports of an immigration crackdown made it difficult to find Hispanic workers, who make up much of Florida's farm workforce.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1816667,00.html

[rodeodance]

30. so--fresh fruit prices will be jacked up. ---along with gas prices! damn!

[KoKo]

33. Could this be Bushco Disinformation. Two Stories appearing on same

day? I haven't noticed any problems with homebuilding slowing down in NC and there were Mexicans working on July 4th and Sundays building new McMansions.

There are already huge amounts of Mexican Americans here in the US and I wonder if anything Bush has done in the last month would have suddenly caused a worker drain in picking crops.

It just sounds a little too "coincidental." Maybe it's to drive prices up, maybe it's disinformation and maybe it's true. But, I kind of think some skepticism might be possible considering they own the media and most of the newspapers. :shrug:

[unlawflcombatnt]

49. Right Idea

I think you've got the right idea. 2 stories appearing where farmers are whining about not having enough workers to pick their crops is just too convenient to be a coincidence. The Bush-controlled media loves to give these stories lots of air time, to prove how much we really need illegal immigrants, and that Americans are too lazy to do the same work. It's the Bush dictatorship's latest ploy to get Americans to cave in to his "amnesty" and "guest worker" proposals.

What we really "need" are living wages, not cheap strawberries.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Judi Lynn]

57. Sounds as if you're onto something.What are the chances, after all? n/t

[MasonJar]

31. I am currently reading a T. C. Boyles book, Tortilla Curtain about

a progressive family and a Mexican family butting heads in S. Calif. It's from 1996, but is relevant today. I am only 1/3 through and so I do not know what happens. Thought provoking so far!

[warrens]

34. I heard some wingnut on NPR a while back...a strawberry farmer

She was all for her sacred holy Preznit Bush kicking them little brown ones in the ass. Except HER little brown ones, because otherwise she'd go bankrupt.

Greed, hate. Hate, greed. Which one is the stronger Rethug value? It was fun watching them clash with that fundie bitch.

[superconnected]

47. Bingo. And we're even seeing it on this thread.

The hate part that is.

[unlawflcombatnt]

50. We're seeing the "greed" part as well

Just look at all the whining about how much it's going to raise the price of strawberries and how poor people aren't going to be able to afford strawberries. Waaaahhhh.

Having an income and earning enough to take care of your family is absolutely essential and should be possible for all American workers.
Eating strawberries is a luxury, not a necessity. And there's not a person who couldn't survive without ever eating another strawberry. Or another orange, for that matter.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[AlienGirl]

40. Volunteer opportunity for the Minutemen!

Surely they will volunteer their services as farm laborers, if it really is about what's good for the country!

Tucker

[superconnected]

45. I picked strawberrys in wa for 1/2 a day when I was a teenager

Too hard. Swore I'd never do it again. So did my friend.

We had to beg to get to call our parents to come and get us and not have to wait till the bus came that night to take us back.

I believe back then - early to mid 80's we got 25 cents for each of the green cartons full of berries - est 6" x 6". The few white kids there that didn't quit got kicked out for filling half of the green carton with dirt and putting berries on the top half.

[hedgehog]

52. I've worked in a packing house

We were packing out onions, not strawberries, but I saw what the owner was getting for his onions and what the stores were charging. Believe me, you could double wages at the pick and pack level and the price at the store would go up a few pennies a pound.

Take a look at your grocery list the next time you shop. How much are you paying for minimally processed fresh vegetables, fruit and even meat? How much are you paying for highly processed cereals, cookies, frozen entrees, pizzas, etc? How much are you paying for inedible items such as cleansers and toilet paper? Food straight from the farm is an incredible bargain.

[greccogirl]

56. Well then,

they will have to hire Americans at a decent wage........... but according to McCain, you "couldn't get an American to pick lettuce for $50 an hour". What an idiot.

[pitohui]

60. people pay to pick fruit

i think the story suspect, you just charge people to pick the fruit themselves and it becomes a tourist attraction

"u pick" is not exactly a rare or new concept, i'm sure they've heard of it up there

[cap]

61. this debate has nothing to do with immigrants vs native-born Americans

The Bush administration istrying to frame the issue in terms of the middle class and the American born poor vs the immigrants.

Who really wants to eat a berry that was produced by someone who cant afford to eat that berry? By someone who is not getting health insurance, workman's comp, and retirement? By someone who is not paying taxes and employers who are evading taxes themselves? By someone not covered by OSHA? Who wants to put food in their mouth food that is tainted by exploitation? The argument is that some must suffer so the rest can eat.

Many of these specialty products arent staples of the American diet. My Mom watched her pennies closely when I was growing up. We only ate strawberries once a year when they were in season and the price was lowest. Only then, did Mom whip up a strawberry shortcake. We never ate the other berries because they were too expensive. Same goes for artichokes, okra, endive, etc. So, what's wrong with going without these extras?

Also, the price of our staples has been kept steady because of farm price supports. We pay taxes to support the price of food at a level that ensures a profit to the farmer. If the farmer can't make his nut we subsidize him. This system has kept our food prices low. The Bush administration wants to eliminate these subsidies. The guest worker program is one way to ensure that production prices are kept at subsistence wages. The administration wants food prices to skyrocket and maximize producer profits.

This debate has nothing to do with the rest of us and is just trying to cause trouble between us. Divide and conquer yet once again.

[earth mom]

62. Did the guy put an ad in the local paper?

I bet if he had, he'd have found his workers.

I smell Rove all over this one...just like the story about the oranges in Florida! :eyes: