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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 07:55 AM
Original message
US senators introduce gay marriage ban
http://uk.gay.com/headlines/5431

Three Republican US senators on Tuesday introduced a proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage as only between a man and a woman.

According to the Associated Press, Senator Wayne Allard, R-Colo., is sponsoring the Federal Marriage Amendment (FMA) along with co-sponsors Sam Brownback, R-Kansas, and Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.

While the details of the proposed amendment were not clear at press time, Human Rights Campaign (HRC) spokesman Michael Cole said Tuesday evening from Washington, DC, "It's our understanding that this bill is similar to the one introduced in the House. We hope to know more tomorrow."

The FMA was introduced in the House on May 21 by Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, R-Colo. The proposed amendment would amend the US Constitution to ban same-sex couples from attaining the status of civil marriage "or the incidents thereof." It has 100 co-sponsors and could pass if approved by two-thirds of both the House and Senate and three-fourths of the states.
<snip>

Sessions is my congressman.
He's going to hear from me again (as if it does any good).
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala. IS A DANGEROUS WHACK -JOB
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 07:59 AM by saigon68
He is the guy, along with his handler Ralph Reed (Remember him), who convinced the voters of Alabama, that triple War amputee, Democratic senator Max Cleland, supported Osama and Sadaam.

sessions is a Dangerous, Right wing, religious zealot.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You are too kind. Full tilt Bozos works as well.
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. No kidding
Practically ANY elected official in Alabama is a crazy right wing whack job. It's practically a rule.
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WarNoMore Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. sessions is also the guy
who wasn't confirmed as a judge in Alabama due to his racial stance.It just seems so crazy to use a constitutional amendment to deprive equal rights rather than an affirmation of *equal rights for all*
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Welcome klutz
Glad to have you here :-) :-)
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. And another welcome! Geez, I didn't know that. I just sent him a
letter comparing him to Lester Maddox. He'll probably take that as a compliment.

:toast:
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
69. Welcome to DU! And Happy Thanksgiving!
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
60. Actually, it was voters in Georgia (where Ralph Reed was)
but Jeff Sessions is still a right-wing-fundamentalist-nut.
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
67. Actually...
Saxby (Pond Scum) Chambliss did the job on Max. Sessions just wishes he had thought of it.
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rjbcar27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. Meanwhile in the UK
in the Queens speech to Parliament today, she outlined the governments plan to give gay couples similar rights to married hetero couples.

Cool innit?
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Not just the UK
But soon the entire EU.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sad truth is this will pass
Maybe it is time for Gays and Lesbians to leave for Canada en masse.
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Ferretherder Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Nah, it's time for America to...
...WAKE THE FUCK UP AND GET THESE FASCIST BASTARDS OUT OF OFFICE BEFORE THERE IS NO MECHANISM LEFT TO DO SO!

...whew.....

Sorry, just got a little carried away there,...heh, heh....

...shit....

I wanna go home, now.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Here's my email to Mass. Gov, Mitt Romney
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 01:12 PM by joeunderdog
Dear Mitt,
Check the calander: it's 2003. Time to acknowledge that civil rights for gays is just another victimless development in the social evolution of the population. The "3000-years-of-history-can't-be-wrong" comeback you offered rings as true now as it did with women's rights and minorities rights. (Good thing you weren't in charge when we voted them in, too.)

Allowing people to build families and be covered by health insurance isn't what's wrong with Massachusetts. While I do admit that the Gay Marriage debate offers a refreshing distraction from the more pertinent, destructive issues that effect the health and welfare of the Commonwealths's citizens, I think it's now time to get back to work and fix what's really broken.

Please devote your time and energy to improving the lives of the people you were elected to serve.
Thank you,
Bill C
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
51. Saw your photo of Gen. Clark. I think it's great....
that he believes gays have the right to marry and that gays in the military are a reality that people will have to deal with. I don't think he could say any more on that last part w/o pissing off too many veterans who are freaked out by gays.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. marriage
This is a rhetorical question: Who gives them the right to pass a law like this? Marriage is a private affair. It should make no difference what the sexual orientation is. What ever happened to the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" The republicans seem to think they are a collective god and do anything they damn well please. Folks, it is just getting worse by the day and we must do all in our power in 2004 to regain the WH. If we don't I fear our "liberties" will be taken from us one by one.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
66. Other countries have "Civil" marriage as a req .for it to be legal
Then religious people have a religious wedding for it to be legitimate within their religion.

We just got back from Chile (very Catholic country) where our niece was married a few weeks ago. First they had a civil ceremony and then a few days later had the religious "wedding".

Same in Italy. Don't know where else that's the case.

Basically, they're saying that a religion doesn't have the power to perform a ceremony that conveys civil rights, granted by the state.

Makes sense to me.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. Why not an amendment to ban opposite-sex marriage?
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 08:22 AM by Snellius
That, surely, must have been the original intent of the framers of the Constitution. If "all MEN are created equal" and only free men were allowed to vote, then it was obvious, by a strict interpretation, that our founding fathers must have meant only men to enjoy the legal rights and obligations provided by the law. Sorry, ladies, you're out of luck!

Otherwise, if marriage is to be limited to one man and one woman, that is to say, on the ability to procreate and sire offspring, there should be a further amendment that infertile women or impotent men can not, obviously, be considered legally joined.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. My SO and I can't have kids...
She got "modified" into a "sports model" years ago and ran out of hormones 2 years ago, and if she was still fertile, I'd get MY tubes tied. No way I would want to be dealing with teenagers in my 60's...

So, using this "gotta be able to make babies or Jeebus will cry" litmus test, I guess we can't ever get married, either....

Dumb-asses....
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Why doesn't the government just
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 08:52 AM by Superfly
stay the fuck out of peoples' lives? Who gives a shit who is gay or not? For fuck's sake, I'm not going to tell them who they can marry, they should not tell us who we can marry.

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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Welcome to the theocracy,
brought to you by the American Taliban.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. This Will Be One Of The Many Reasons Why The Repukes Will LOSE in '04
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 08:41 AM by bushisanidiot
they are openly calling for legalized discrimination against tax paying americans. While it may be true that for now, americans are not in favor of legalizing gay "marriage", the majority ARE in favor of granting civil unions for gays if it means giving us the same legal rights as married couples.

This will be a HUGE losing issue for the repukes. It's funny to watch them run with it like this without thinking it through and realizing they are on the losing end of the argument. ( They are such children) If the argument were that the democrats wanted to change the constitution to legalize gay "marriage" then the repukes might have something to argue about.. but, not this. repukes saying justice for SOME will NEVER beat democrats screaming "justice for ALL"!!!

I cannot WAIT to hear the floor speeches on this one.. the repukes are going to look like the KKK!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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JusticeForAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
73. hear hear! n/t
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eileen from OH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. Good. Hear me out. . .
This is better than having it used as a "this is what we'll do" type scenerio during the campaign. The Christian right has gone along with the 'pubs cuz they talk big on doing stuff like this, but don't really push it when they get in. Think about it - there's a LOT of stuff the 'pubs promise the Christian right, but despite having both Houses AND the White House, nothing (outside of Partial Birth thing) actually gets done. And don't think the CR hasn't noticed. There was a convention of Christian leaders/broadcasters (sorry, don't have the link) a few months ago who basically told the R leadership (strongly) that they wanted action, not just talk, or they might tell their followers to stay home.

But why DON'T they? It's because they know, as much as the Dems, that it's a really divisive issue. And that some voters, while not liking gay marriage particularly, get real uncomfortable about things like Constitutional Amendments against them. So they talk the talk to appease the CR, but don't actually have to DO anything thereby not alarming moderate, don't-give-a-damn voters.

But by introducing a Constitutional Amendment, R's are gonna be forced to actually take a stand, take action, yes, come right out and support something that says gay and lesbians are second class citizens. And while that'll thrill the little Christian pants off the far right, a whole lot of otherwise apathetic-on-that-issue voters are gonna be turned off. And it energizes the left further and may even get younger voters to pay attention. Not to mention what it will do to the Log Cabin Republicans.

So I think this becomes a "put up or shut up" issue for the R's by doing this. And "putting up" is exactly what they have avoided.

eileen from OH

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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Good analysis, eileen.
Welcome to DU.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. You Are Exactly Right! This Is A Major LOSING Stand for Repukes To Take
in an election year. But, if they're stupid enough to push it.. let 'em. We'll ride the tidal wave all the way to the White House!

:)
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
63. They don't have both houses
and neither do they have the judicial.

So long as dems can filibuster in the senate they can't do anything totally outrageous just yet. Likewise they won't pass a bill that will obviously get struck down by the courts.

If we were to loose the judicial (which is really all we have left) and the ability to filibuster in the senate THEN they will push an agenda like we have never seen before.

It's not that they won't act once they are in power. They most certainly will. They just haven't been in full power yet. They don't have enough of the federal government even if it seems like they do.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Furthermore, 67 Senators are needed for a Constitutional Amendment (n/t)
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
70. This is a good analysis. Furthermore, hopefully it'll energize the
true conservatives who fervently believe that government should not be interfering in people's lives. This just smacks that idea upside the head. They also tend to want to leave the Constitution alone and not muck with it, AND they also oppose big (expensive) government in general. Let's hope so, anyway.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. My email to Sessions
Your actions in sponsoring such an amendment (Federal Marriage Amendment) reminds me of the bigoted and racist politicians of the South in the 60's and 70's. Anxious to pander to the lowest common denominator by disregarding common sense and civility, so many decided it was easier to attack the disenfranchised.

Just think, you are now setting the stage for you to be remembered in the same vein as Lester Maddox and his ilk. Congratulations.

I'm a heterosexual voter and am ashamed that you are involved in such a sophomoric attempt to garner attention. The South already suffers from the preconception of being backward and bigoted and you have blatantly fed the fires of that conception. You are an embarrassment to educated Alabamians everywhere.

Please reconsider your stance on this issue.

Regards,




Write these senators and let them know what you think!
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. This is an attempt to persecute...
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 08:55 AM by liberalmuse
a select group of people. We should not stand for it. This proposed amendment designed to specifically target gay people will give hate-filled bigots everywhere a free pass to continue and even escalate their attacks on gays. As Americans, we should not allow any amendment to our Constitution that does not serve to expand or secure rights for EVERYONE. The 'pubs worst enemy is education, because once we educate the ignorant and make it so bigotry becomes an abherration, then the 'pubs will lose many of their voters. What does having so many racist, homophobes representing the American people in D.C. say about us as a country?
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. "The Republican Right Does"
DUers: The way to defeat stuff like this is to point out its obvious absurdity and truly frightening potential to everyone. Allowing the Right to dictate such things as who and who can not get married is only the beginning of their interference with our sex lives. Gays are easy targets and the Sex Nazis always start with the easy targets first. Then, once they have them 'corralled' by law, they go after the next group and the next. Ultimately what you have is a social control mechanism where the ONLY 'allowed' sex is between a married husband and wife in the 'missionary' position for procreative purposes. How many people regardless of their sexual orientation want THAT?!

What is needed is a list sort of like this:


Do you believe that the right to marry and all the legal rights and protections guaranteed by such a union should belong only to members of the opposite sex?

The Republican Right does.

Do you believe that sex should only be allowed between a married man and woman engaged in the act for procreative purposes?

The Republican Right does.

Do you believe the government should be allowed to dictate what you can and can not do and in the privacy of your own bedroom?

The Republican Right does.

etc.


It's barely six AM where I am and I'm not thinking clearly yet--I'm sure you guys can come up with a better list, worded in a way that gets right to the point--perhaps with a touch of scathing humor. Contribute to this list and then take the best ones and email them out to everyone you know. Get something like this circulating on the internet and this whole thing will quickly go the way of the doodoo.
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ps1074 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
16. Dems can beat the repubs on this one
They need to say - Okay, we will define marriage as only between a man and a woman. But since we're not less religious than you are we want to include in the definition that 'A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives'.

How many senators in total do you think will vote for this? 2,3 or 5?

Repubs are hypocrites. They need to be exposed. You want a fight over marriage? you will have it. Make them define marriage as it is defined in the bible. None of them will vote for this.
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Enough will vote for it
to see that it passes.

Watch. It'll happen.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
18. Writing to Senators
It's such an exercise when you live in Alabama. I mean, we must do it, lest the idiots just go along patting themselves on the back thinking they're doing the right thing and all the citizens of Alabama are happy little bigoted campers.

But isn't it frustrating? I always imagine Shelby and Sessions reading my letters and smirking, "Or what, Mrs. W? You won't vote for me next time? You'll give money to my opponent? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

:(

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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, with Sessions maybe if you threatened to take away
the Southern Minn Beet Sugar Co-op financing he recieves. I need to ask him about that.

http://opengov.media.mit.edu/EX/0000/000/300/088/

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lefty_mcduff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. RW Whack Jobs - the lot of them.
"The proposed amendment would amend the US Constitution to ban same-sex couples from attaining the status of civil marriage "or the incidents thereof."

Wow - sounds like they want to wipe out any civil gains that have been made regarding insurance or benefits. Am I right here? If so, this has nothing to do with 'marriage' per se - it has to do with the stripping away of already-established partner rights. Why these jack-offs feel it neccessary to even make this a political issue is beyond me (other than to appeal to the motuh-breathers back 'ome).

Don't we have much more important issues to deal with than worrying about whether two men (or women) want to express love for each other? As the rest of the civilized world continues to become more enlightened (ie: Canada's latest 'gay marriage' rulings) the US is turning into something more befitting the fucking Christian Taliban.

Whoe the fuck are these clowns to 'decide' whether two tax-paying citizens can get married or not? Assclowns.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. I hope Colorado will boot Dullard in '08
Because I certainly didn't ask Dullard to introduce this POS.

Dullard, remember what happened to Amendment 2 here in Colorado? Guess not...

Hawkeye-X
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. i don't think it will happen
but that is not really the point is it!?

i've written to both of my Republican Senators and they have assured me they will not be voting for this Amendment.


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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. what state are you in
it would be nice to start putting together a list of those who oppose this crap
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Maine.
my Congressman Michael Michaud is against it too-
no big surprise there, he's a good guy.
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Let's start a list of who will support it as well
Probably Byrd (unfortunately) and Lieberman come to mind. All republicans should be assumed to be for it unless you hear otherwise.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Landrieu will probably support it.
Along with the other jerk from LA.



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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. Landrieu generally supports gay rights
But, I don't know what she will do here, if it comes to a vote.
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
55. Lieberman would vote against it
People need to realize that Lieberman isn't that conservative.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/19/elec04.prez.dems.gay.marriage/

"I will oppose any attempts by the right wing to change the Constitution in response to today's ruling, which would be unnecessary and divisive," Lieberman said.
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Blitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
61. Byrd will probably co-sponsor it
While I expect Lieberman to out against it (even though he supported the Defense of Marriage Act; only fourteen Senators voted against it: Akaka (D) Hawaii, Boxer (D) California, Feingold (D) Wisconsin, Feinstein (D) California, Inouye (D) Hawaii, Kennedy (D) Massachusetts, Kerrey (D) Nebraska, Kerry (D) Massachusetts, Moseley-Braun (D) Illinois, Moynihan (D) New York, Pell (D) Rhode Island, Robb (D) Virginia, Simon (D) Illinois and Wyden (D) Oregon). On Byrd's very best day, the old bigot can't hold a candle to Lieberman when it comes to civil rights.

Here is Byrd's speech in support of the Defense of Marriage Act, which he co-sponsored (all emphasis mine):

Mr. President, I am pleased to join my colleague, the senior Senator from Oklahoma, in cosponsoring the Defense of Marriage Act. Although I am glad to work with Senator Nickles in this effort, I must admit that, in all of my nearly 44 years in the Congress, I never envisioned that I would see a measure such as the Defense of Marriage Act.

It is incomprehensible to me that federal legislation would be needed to provide a definition of two terms that for thousands of years have been perfectly clear and unquestioned. That we have arrived at a point where the Congress of the United States must actually reaffirm in the statute books something as simple as the definition of "marriage" and "spouse," is almost beyond my grasp. But as the current state of legal affairs has shown, this bill is a necessary endeavor.

...Let me read from, "The Case For Same-Sex Marriage," by William N. Eskridge, Jr.

My guess is that one or more of the foregoing denominations will tilt towards same sex unions or marriages in the next 5 to 10 years. Even the religions that are most prominently opposed to gay marriages have clergy who perform gay marriage ceremonies. The Roman Catholic Church firmly opposes gay marriage but its celebrated priest, John J. McNeill says that he and many other Catholic clergy have performed same-sex commitment services. Although Father McNeill's position is marginalized within the Catholic Church, it reflects the views of many devout Catholics. Support for same-sex marriage is probably most scarce among Baptists in the South.
You can be assured that same-sex marriage is an issue that has arrived worldwide and that efforts to head it off will only be successful in the short term.

...Therefore, Mr. President, the time is now, the place is here, to debate this issue. It confronts us now. It comes even nearer.

There are those who say, "Why does the Senate not debate and act upon relevant matters?" This is relevant. And it is relevant today.

In very simple and easy to read language, this bill says that a marriage is the legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and that a spouse is a husband or wife of the opposite sex. There is not, of course, anything earth-shaking in that declaration. We are not breaking any new ground here. We are not setting any new precedent. We are not overturning the status quo in any way, shape or form. On the contrary, all this bill does is reaffirm for purposes of Federal law what is already understood by everyone.

Mr. President, throughout the annals of human experience, in dozens of civilizations and cultures of varying value systems, humanity has discovered that the permanent relationship between men and women is a keystone to the stability, strength, and health of human society—a relationship worthy of legal recognition and judicial protection. The purpose of this kind of union between human beings of opposite gender is primarily for the establishment of a home atmosphere in which a man and a woman pledge themselves exclusively to one another and who bring into being children for the fulfilment of their love for one another and for the greater good of the human community at large.

Obviously human beings enter into a variety of relationships. Business partnerships, friendships, alliances for mutual benefits, and team memberships all depend upon emotional unions of one degree or another. For that reason, a number of these relationships have found standing under the laws of innumerable nations.

However, in no case, has anyone suggested that these relationships deserve the special recognition or the designation commonly understood as "marriage." The suggestion that relationships between members of the same gender should ever be accorded the status or the designation of marriage flies in the face of the thousands of years of experience about the societal stability that traditional marriage has afforded human civilization. To insist that male-male or female-female relationships must have the same status as the marriage relationship is more than unwise, it is patently absurd.

...Out of same-sex relationships, no children can result. Out of such relationships emotional bonding oftentimes does not take place, and many such relationships do not result in the establishment of "families" as society universally interprets that term. Indeed as history teaches us too often in the past, when cultures waxed casual about the uniqueness and sanctity of the marriage commitment between men and women, those cultures have been shown to be in decline. This was particularly true in the ancient world in Greece and, more particularly, in Rome. In both Greece and Rome, same-sex relationships were not uncommon.

...Suetonius, the Roman biographer, relates that Julius Caesar prostituted his body to be abused by King Nicomedes of Bithynia, and that Curio the Elder, in an oration, called Caesar "a woman for all men and a man for all women."

While same-sex relations were not unknown, therefore, to the ancients, same-sex marriages were a different matter. But they did sometimes involve utilization of the forms and the customs of heterosexual marriage. For example, the Emperor Nero, who reigned between 54 and 68 A.D., took the marriage vows with a young man named Sporus, in a very public ceremony, with a gown and a veil and with all of the solemnities of matrimony, after which Nero took this Sporus with him, carried on a litter, all decked out with ornaments and jewels and the finery normally worn by empresses, and traveled to the resort towns in Greece and Italy, Nero, "many a time, sweetly kissing him."

Mr. President, the marriage bond as recognized in the Judeo-Christian tradition, as well as in the legal codes of the world's most advanced societies, is the cornerstone on which the society itself depends for its moral and spiritual regeneration as that culture is handed down, father to son and mother to daughter.

Indeed thousands of years of Judeo-Christian teaching leave absolutely no doubt as to the sanctity, purpose, and reason for the union of man and woman. One only has to turn to the Old Testament and read the word of God to understand how eternal is the true definition of marriage.

Mr. President, I am rapidly approaching my 79th birthday, and I hold in my hands a Bible, the Bible that was in my home when I was a child. This is the Bible that was read to me by my foster father. It is a Bible, the cover of which having been torn and worn, has been replaced. But this is the Bible, the King James Bible. And here is what it says in the first chapter of Genesis, 27th and 28th verses:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth...

And when God used the word "multiply," he wasn't talking about multiplying your stocks, bonds, your bank accounts or your cattle on a thousand hills or your race horses or your acreages of land. He was talking about procreation, multiplying, populating the earth.

And after the flood, when the only humans who were left on the globe were Noah and his wife and his sons and their wives, the Bible says in chapter 9 of Genesis:

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.
Christians also look at the Gospel of Saint Mark, chapter 10, which states:

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife.

And they twain shall become one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Woe betide that society, Mr. President, that fails to honor that heritage and begins to blur that tradition which was laid down by the Creator in the beginning.

...This reflects a demand for political correctness that has gone berserk. We live in an era in which tolerance has progressed beyond a mere call for acceptance and crossed over to become a demand for the rest of us to give up beliefs that we revere and hold most dear in order to prove our collective purity. At some point, a line must be drawn by rational men and women who are willing to say, "Enough!"


Certainly in today's far too permissive world, traditional marriage as an institution is struggling. Divorce is far too frequent, as are male and female relationships which do not end in marriage. Certainly we do not want to launch a further assault on the institution of marriage by blurring its definition in this unwise way.

The drive for the acceptance of same-sex or same-gender " marriage" should serve for us as an indication that we have drawn too close to the edge and that we as a people are on the verge of trying so hard to please a few that we destroy the values and the spiritual beliefs of the many. Moreover, to seek the codification of same-sex marriage into our national or State legal codes is to make a mockery of those codes themselves. Many legal scholars believe that only after a majority of society comes to a consensus on the legality or illegality of one issue or another should that issue be written down in our legal institutions. The drive for same-sex marriage is, in effect, an effort to make a sneak attack on society by encoding this aberrant behavior in legal form before society itself has decided it should be legal—a proposition which is far in the distance, if ever to be realized.

...Mr. President, for these reasons and others named by the opponents of same-sex or gender marriage, I hope that our colleagues here in the Senate will demonstrate their thorough opposition to efforts to subvert the traditional definition of "marriage" by going on record today against this very unnecessary idea.

Let us make clear that in our generation, at least, we understand the meaning and purpose of marriage and that we affirm our trust in the divine approbation—you do not have to be a preacher to say this; I am not a prophet or the son of a prophet; I am not a preacher or the son of a preacher; one does not have to be a prophet or a preacher—to affirm our trust in the divine approbation of union between a man and a woman, between a male and female for all time.

Mr. President, 41 years ago I was traveling with a House subcommittee of the Committee on Foreign Affairs. I visited the city of Baghdad, the city of the Arabian Nights, where Ali Baba followed the 40 thieves through the streets, and from which Sinbad the Sailor departed on his journey to the magnetic mountain.

I asked an old Arab guide to take me down to the old Biblical city of Babylon, where one of the famous seven wonders of the world, the hanging gardens, was created. As I reached the old city of Babylon I stood on the banks of the Euphrates River, that old river that is first mentioned in the Book of Genesis, which like a thread runs through the entire Bible, the Old Testament and the New, and is mentioned again in the book of Revelation.

I stood on the site, or at least I was told I was standing on the site of where Belshazzar, the son of Nebuchadnezzar, held a great feast for 1,000 of his lords. Belshazzar, took the cups that had been stolen from the temple by Nebuchadnezzar. He and his wife and concubines and his colleagues drank from those vessels, and Belshazzar saw the hand of a man writing on the plaster of the wall, over near the candlestick, and the hand wrote "me'ne, me'ne, te'kel, uphar'sin" and the countenance of Belshazzar changed, his knees buckled, and his legs trembled beneath him. He called in his astrologers and soothsayers and magicians and said, "Tell me what that writing means," but they were mystified. They could not interpret the writing. Then the queen told Belshazzar that there was a man in the kingdom who could interpret that writing. So, Daniel was brought before the king and told by the king that he, Daniel, would be clothed in scarlet with a golden chain around his neck, and that he would become a third partner in the kingdom if he could interpret that writing. Daniel interpreted the writing:

God hath numbered thy kingdom and finished it. Thou art found wanting. Thy kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.
That night Belshazzar was slain by Darius the Median, and his kingdom was divided.

Mr. President, America is being weighed in the balances. If same-sex marriage is accepted, the announcement will be official, America will have said that children do not need a mother and a father, two mothers or two fathers will be just as good.

This would be a catastrophe. Much of America has lost its moorings. Norms no longer exist. We have lost our way with a speed that is awesome. What took thousands of years to build is being dismantled in a generation.

I say to my colleagues, let us take our stand. The time is now. The subject is relevant. Let us defend the oldest institution, the institution of marriage between male and female, as set forth in the Holy Bible. Else we, too, will be weighed in the balances and found wanting.


Everybody catch that? According to the ever lovable Senator Byrd, if homosexuals (who cannot create families and often don't form an emotional bond) are permitted to marry, American civilization will be danmed by God and will collapse like the civilizations before it that have permitted such perversion.

I say, yet again, that Robert C. Byrd is a bigot (and not just because of his homophobia) and that his age is no excuse (he has been a bigot of one stripe or another all of his life) since other men and women of the same years manage to go through life without this ugliness in their hearts. Does anyone disagree?
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. Chafee, Snowe and Hagel oppose amendment
I guess that Collins also does unless she is lying to you. So, there are four republican no votes right there. Gordon Smith has also had a pretty good gay rights record and he condemned Santorum's statements. Voinovich and DeWine of Ohio also seem like potential no votes and maybe Lisa Murkowski.

Does this amendment ban civil unions as well or just marriage? That could change a lot of votes.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
23. Where's Santorum???
Why isn't he sponsoring this bill?

Sessions(R) Alabama. Gee, he and David Duke must come from the same line.

:eyes:
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. If any Democrat votes for this
they're lying sonsabitches who deserve no respect.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Many of them will---because they are cowards...
Daschle will sell us out for sure--again.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
32. Hoosier DU'ers! Pence, Burton and "Count" Chocola...
Are co-sponsors of this POS.
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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. And what exactly would such an amendment do?
Amending the Constitution of the United States of America is usually reserved for seriously grave issues such as, hell, I dunno, like some people in this country are f$cking SLAVES, and perhaps that isn't such a great idea; or half the population isn't allowed to VOTE, and perhaps that, too, isn't such a great idea.

So let's say they amend the Constitution to define marriage as something strictly reserved for one man and one woman. What then? What the hell does that DO to improve the life of a single man or woman in this country? If they amend the Constitution this way, it absolutely does not affect my marriage to my husband a single iota; if they allow the Constitution to remain as it is, again, it absolutely does not affect my marriage to my husband a single iota. So now that we know that amending the Constitution does not affect marriage in any way, shape or form, what is the true agenda here? The only possible answer is to render my homosexual friends as second class citizens. May I also add that in my circle of friends, my gay friends are the ones who've had more stable relationships than the straight couples I know? (Well, except for C.M., but I mean generally speaking.)

This pisses me off, there is absolutely NO benefit to be gained from this, only HARM. I would love to sit and wait for one of the supporters of this amendment to give me a single, logical benefit to be gained from this proposal, but I don't have that long to wait.



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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Here's the plan:
1) make gay marriage prohibited under the Constitution.

2) argue in court that this extends to all other legal protections for GLBT people as well. This will be easy under a conservative court system.

3) argue in court- again- that since there are no legal protections for GLBT people, homosexuality should be rendered generally unlawful.

4) start jailing all known homosexuals.

Scared? Me too. :scared:
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trapper914 Donating Member (796 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
53. Two points
I've always looked at the Constitution as a rights document, rather than a curtailment of rights document.

Also, why is it that the Republicans always want to amend the Constitution with what one CAN'T do? (e.g. Flag burning, Gay Marriage, Abortion)
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. Haven't nearly all Constiutional Amendments EXPANDED rights
rather than restrict them? I read that somewhere, and I must admit that I am not well versed in the history of amendments to the constitution.
Can someone help me in recalling an amendment that took away rights?
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. 18th Amendment - Prohibition...
But the difference is that it took away the same rights for everyone, not just a select group.

Btw, you should do a search on Plaid Adder in the archives to read her excellent analyses of the whole issue.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. wasn't there an amendment that took away rights from slave-owners?
nt
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. You're right...
The Constitution restricts what the state can do. GOP admendment proposals restrict what the individual can do:

no flag burning
no abortion
no serving more than "x" number of terms in Congress
no marrying within your gender
(I know there are more, but these currently come to mind)

The GOP wishes only to clutter the Consitution with amendments that control behavior. And this from the party of "less government" :eyes:
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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. With apologies to Niemoeller
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 02:22 PM by bain_sidhe
Perhaps we should consider printing up little "hand-out" cards or stickers like this:

They came first for the communists Muslims, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist Muslim. Then they came for the Jews gays, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew gay. Then they came for the trade unionists but I didn't speak up because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics Democrats, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant Republican. Then they came for me, and by that time nobody was left to speak up.

(edit for inappropriate plural)
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Well said. Thanks for the chuckle.... and the deep sigh. Too damn close
to reality.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
46. Here is the killer for this bill
"could pass if approved by two-thirds of both the House and Senate and three-fourths of the states."
No way will two thirds of either house and three forth of all states go along with this. It is extremely hard to amend the US Constitution as it should be and this bill will not be cause for that very thing.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. The intent though is not to pass but divide the US
Edited on Wed Nov-26-03 03:45 PM by LeftHander
And shift focus away from real issues.

Republicans always play the morality, character, god card during elections because they can't EVER win on issues alone. What is sad is that so many are afraid to go against the bible bangers.

I have always said that Gay marriage is going to be the litmus test in next year's election. Because....even people that are political liberals and progressives STILL have homophobic tendencies that will make them side with the the christian right. Much like some moderate muslims go along with extremist groups because they fear that they might make a mistake with the after life or with God.


So here we have people in our our society that can be discriminated against for no reason other than who they prefer to fall in love with.

It so fucking sucks.



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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Bing-fucking-O! This is an attention grab and a devisive tactic.
Nothing more than that.

I can't wait to get Sessions reply to my email.
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Kitsune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. And how many states have passed anti-homosexual legislation?
It's in the high 30's at least.
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EV1Ltimm Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. I read most of that ...
It also calls on congress to make it illegal to be irish or for women to have back pockets.
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karlschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. "til death do us part" seems to me to be equivalent to sworn testimony
under oath. When it is violated (as about half of "conventional" marriages end in divorce), should the state prosecute one or both parties for perjury? If not, why not?...after all, the ceremony is sanctioned, recognized, encouraged and rewarded by the government of the people, by the people and ...

Oh.








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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
57. Ir Figures Wayne Dullard Has His Hand In This
He's the sorriest excuse for a Senator I've ever seen.
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
59. 2 other cosponsors
Jim Bunning and Jim Inhofe are also cosponsoring it. I wonder how long it will be until Zell Miller joins them and the republicans begin calling it the "Bipartisan" Constititutional Amendment.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
62. They should out every bastard who supports this bill. I pray someone
does.
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Blitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. By saying they should "out every bastard"
do you mean that someone should allege that the "bastard" in question is gay since that would clearly be a harmful smear against them and cause them to be shunned and ashamed? Is that what you mean?
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. I saw it as outing in the sense that their homophobic prejudices...
were discovered and that people could see what they're all about.
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Blitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. That's not at all how I saw it
and that would make little sense insofar as their feelings are hardly "in the closet." Of course, I'm no mind reader and you may be right. I'd like an answer from roguevalley.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
64. This is ridiculous. (nt)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
65. Yes, this is important work.
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 04:45 AM by aquart
Not like jobs, war, air pollution, energy gouging, national health. Let's make sure gay people don't think they're as good as all those guys thumping each other's ass in the locker room.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
74. turnabout is fair play
Gays introduce Conservative US Senator ban.
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