SF Chron: Police spies chosen to lead war protest

[Newsjock]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/28/SURVEILLANCE.TMP

Two Oakland police officers working undercover at an anti-war protest in May 2003 got themselves elected to leadership positions in an effort to influence the demonstration, documents released Thursday show.

The department assigned the officers to join activists protesting the U.S. war in Iraq and the tactics that police had used at a demonstration a month earlier, a police official said last year in a sworn deposition.

At the first demonstration, police fired nonlethal bullets and bean bags at demonstrators who blocked the Port of Oakland's entrance in a protest against two shipping companies they said were helping the war effort. Dozens of activists and longshoremen on their way to work suffered injuries ranging from welts to broken bones and have won nearly $2 million in legal settlements from the city.

The extent of the officers' involvement in the subsequent march May 12, 2003, led by Direct Action to Stop the War and others, is unclear. But in a deposition related to a lawsuit filed by protesters, Deputy Police Chief Howard Jordan said activists had elected the undercover officers to "plan the route of the march and decide I guess where it would end up and some of the places that it would go."

more

[Barrett808]

1. Classic. Read "The Protectors of Privilege" for the history...

...of US political police operations:

Protectors of Privilege: Red Squads and Police Repression in Urban America
by Frank Donner
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0520080351/sr=1-1/qid=1154062500/ref=sr_1_1/002-4821322-0800064?ie=UTF8&s=books

Donner, a civil liberties lawyer, last wrote The Age of Surveillance (a "powerful and signficant study," LJ 5/1/80), about federal suppression of political dissent. Viewing city police as "the protective arm . . . of the capitalist system," Donner here documents the history of local countersubversion units, focusing on Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and Los Angeles. Repression flourished in the 1960s and early 1970s but was largely curtailed thereafter in reaction to Watergate. Donner presents a litany of police harassment and abuse, including undercover agents who incited the violence they supposedly were hired to prevent. Rather dense prose, with many footnotes and 100 pages of references, gear this book primarily to research and legal collections. A worthwhile, albeit strongly opinionated, contribution.
- Gregor A. Preston, Univ. of California Lib., Davis

[alfredo]

2. During the early 70's we were careful of instigators.

People who advocated violence were shunned, not just because it was wrong, but because we knew that was what the police wanted.

[bigluckyfeet]

42. Thanks

I just went and ordered it.

[Barrett808]

52. Yes, it's quite an authoritative study

These kinds of police tricks are over a century old (in this country). But they still work today.

[Olderwiser]

3. Bush Administration is watching you - who cares

I took part in the early protests in San Francisco before the war in Iraq started and have continued to protest. I am from the 60's and I just assume that this weird "Nixon Clone" Administration is spending my tax dollars to film protests. If it wasn't so crazy, I would laugh.

[Straight Shooter]

4. Olderwiser, Let me be the first to say

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[SensibleAmerican]

5. I thought the mayor of Oakland was Jerry Brown

I'm not saying the federal government did not play a part in this, because it is definitely possible they did, but I find it sad that a police department that is under control by one of 20th century's greatest liberals is partaking in this type of activity.

[Judi Lynn]

14. Did you read the article?

Asked who had ordered the officers to infiltrate the group, Jordan said, "I don't know if there is one particular person, but I think together we probably all decided it would be a good idea to have some undercover officers there."
(snip)

Apparently the police didn't consult "one of 20th century's greatest liberals." Don't see any way to take a shot at him if these police didn't ask his permission to patrol the city in the manner to which they were accustomed.

I know there aren't too many times the police in my city run to the mayor here for guidance.

[SensibleAmerican]

23. Are you saying the mayor can't fire the chief?

A good leader disciplines the people under him justly.

[leesa]

29. No one ordered it, they just probably decided it was a good idea. Right.

Who are these good old boyz protecting

[One_Life_To_Give]

30. Don't assume he wasn't aware

It would be criminal if the police didn't have undercover personnel embedded into the protest groups. The mayors office would be receiving some of the intelligence reports being generated by the officers.

[High Plains]

33. It would be criminal if police were spying on dissenters?

Do you really believe that? If yes, why are you here?

[One_Life_To_Give]

34. To identify peaceful vs violent protesters yes

Ones right to redress of greivances does not include destruction of private property, causing bodily injuries to others, etc. As long as some people who attempt to do so under cover of a groups of peaceful protesters. Then yes the police need to have people on the inside who can identify, isolate and otherwise disrupt those who would.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. Problem is, it inevitably winds up that the ones advocating violence

and destruction are the police spies themselves, trying to bring discredit to the protesters.

It happened with the SDS, with the Panthers; the Tsars police practically ran the 1905 revolution; as long as there are police spies, it will happen.

[One_Life_To_Give]

40. So we should let the DNC be burned down?

I agree it's a very difficult line to walk for the agents.
But my recolection is that was likely responsible for the confiscation of a van load of incendiary stuff on the eve of the DNC.

Seems to me either the protesters will have to agressivly police themselves. Or the public will demand that the police do what is necessary.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. Funny. I don't remember this incident. Got links? nt

On Edit:

Maybe you were talking about this?

http://colorado.indymedia.org/newswire/display/8797/index.php

Just because the FBI was looking, and harrassing delegates, doesn't mean there really was a plot.

2nd edit:

Now there was a 'foiled bomb plot' in NYC the weekend of the convention -- yet another of the many where arrests were made, but those arrested 'never obtained any explosive materials'. Sounds familiar.

Maybe you were thinking about that?

Hello?

[ManWroteTheBible]

39. 3 words...

free speech zones

[Peace Patriot]

48. Well, One_Life, you're pretty naive about the cops then. They don't

join civil protest groups to keep anybody safe. They join to make trouble, and to marshall brutal forces in the right locations, for maximum head-bashing, and to target leaders for the roughest treatment. Their purpose is to foil civil protest, not to protect it. I have never seen ANY peace or human rights protesters, in ANY situation, destroy private property or cause anyone injury. I have seen agents provocateur do it. They were never people anybody knew. In Seattle, it was young, masked "anarchists," and a few other provocateurs, very late in the day, after about eight hours of brutal police repression against ENTIRELY peaceful, seated protesters (blocking intersections to prevent WTO members from the attending the meeting). And even then, the real protesters tried to stop these provocateurs, and put their bodies between these young hoodlums and store windows. Also, there were NO injuries--zero, zilch--that were not inflicted by the police. And the police-inflicted injuries were terrible--including beating up a Seattle City Councilman!

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies featured the hoodlums' actions, late in the day, and completely failed to report that the Darth Vader-costumed police had been beating people up all day--massive tear gassing, pepper spray hosing (big hoses, aimed right at peoples' head), rubber bullets, the lot. COMPLETELY PEACEFUL people. The only way the cops could bust this extremely well-organized, peaceful, MASSIVE civil protest was going ape-shit all day, and then trying to attribute their brutality to very late-in-the-day actions of a few young troublemakers.

I never felt safer in my life than in that crowd of 50,000 people. Truly. It was the most peaceful, inspiring protest I've ever been in. The participants were WONDERFUL people--teachers, union members, small business people, many older people, reps from numerous human rights, environmental and religious groups. It was also the most slandered protest ever. Total lies by the corporate news. And, of course, they never covered the extensive public hearings in Seattle where the truth was laid out. (The police chief was forced to resign!)

In San Francisco, in one of the first anti-Vietnam war protests, in 1967, I remember that the agreement was that the march would use HALF of Market Street, and traffic could pass through the other half. About 30,000 people (big for that era). And about halfway through the march, a few people broke from the crowd, and began yelling, "Let's take over the whole street!" Wiser, more experienced protesters just smiled, and told the rest of us, "Agents provocateur."

It's common knowledge that these are police-paid agents, trying to create opportunities for repression. I understand your point about SOME groups--the Ku Klux Klan, for instance, which was actually murdering people in the South in the '60s, Nazi/white supremacist groups that initiate members by having them beat up the homeless or gays, anti-abortion groups that kill doctors and bomb women's clinics. There may be justification for infiltrating these groups. What peace or human rights group ever threatened anyone, did harm to anyone, or fostered hatred and violence? Peace and human rights groups are self-policing. This should be obvious to everyone by now, including the cops. In Seattle, for instance, you had every major NGO in the country involved (groups like Greenpeace) and several unions (for instance, the Steelworkers). Can anyone think that the experienced people in groups like these would advocate breaking windows, or tolerate anyone who advocated it? Everybody knew everybody. It was organized by non-profits and other groups with memberships. The only wildcards in situations like this are random people showing up at the march or protest in progress. And if they are troublemakers, they are EASILY weeded out by peaceful means--on what they say or do. In every big march or protest I have been in, there have been LOTS OF monitors for this very purpose. And I have never been in a protest march or event where any destructive behavior was tolerated. Friendliness, a cooperative spirit, calmness, and joyful, loving community, have always been the mode, even in civil disobedience situations.

So what is this NEED for the police to infiltrate and spy on peace and human rights activities? Spying on Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney would be more useful to humanity, and the maintenance of civil order. Has there ever been anything more uncivil in this country than Katrina? Has there ever been anything more uncivil and unlawful done by our government than Guantanamo Bay? Has there ever been more gratuitous, and unnecessary, and unjustified destruction of property and wholesale slaughter than the invasion of Iraq?

Who needs to be spied upon? Who needs to be infiltrated? Try to keep some perspective on these things. Peace and human rights groups do not tolerate violent action or violent talk. But who DOES tolerate it--and foster it?

Ordinary people have tremendous moral power when they gather together in large numbers, in a peaceful spirit, to petition their government, or protest incivility by corporate predators. The police, acting for, and under orders from, the people who are being petitioned or protested--people who have already violated civil order in some major way (by injustice or war)--actively seek to nullify that rightful citizen moral power by causing disruption, and inventing excuses to beat it down, and slander it. That is what police infiltration of peaceful groups is all about. And if the police forces in this country can't tell the difference between peaceful activity and dangerous, ill-intentioned activity, by now, there is something very wrong in these police organizations. And those of us who have been unjustly battered by them, and slandered by them, know very well that there is something very wrong, indeed.

I was a legal monitor in Seattle during the civil disobedience part of the protest, where about 10,000 people closed off all the intersections leading to the WTO meeing by sitting down in the intersections. And when the police lines formed, with a large contingent of blackclad Darth Vaders, and large pepper spray machines rolled up, prepared to assault a group of several hundred, entirely peaceful, seated people in an intersection, I went up to one of these helmeted (no badge) armored cops and asked him, politely, "What are you going to do to these people?" His answer: "We're not going to kill them." Had killing been discussed? It was on his mind, apparently. We're not going to kill them. What they did, instead, was to aim hoses of pepper spray at their heads. It is the most difficult thing I have ever had to watch. And the protesters just sat there and took it. I remember one young man standing up and yelling something at them--a rare breach of the civil disobedience pact. But an understandable one. He was beaten and carried off. The whole area was tear-gassed. Some of the protesters were poked or hit, and all were dragged off into police buses, where they were kept for hours with no medical aid, water or food. And they all had to be released without charge, of course, because they had done nothing. NOTHING!

No, I take that back. They had done something. They had done one of the greatest, most effective protests I have ever seen or heard of. The global corporate predator organization, the WTO, has never been the same. Several years later, at Cancun, the exploited third world countries, led by Brazil, revolted. Global corporate exploiters who are destroying the planet, and who prowl the globe looking for slave labor, and seeking to control and exploit all natural resources, including water, now have one less vehicle for magnifying their power. South America has rejected this model (call "neo-liberalism") out of hand. And the bad guys began looking for a better way to control the American people. (Corporate-controlled electronic voting.) (Yup, I think we have Seattle to thank for Diebold and ES&S.)

The police, unfortunately--because they, too, are working class people, and are exploited--are not on our side. They have become the enforcers of fascist rule. And it is not their intention to keep people safe, when it comes to large-scale citizen pressure on our corporate-controlled government. They have rather the opposite intention, to prevent us from influencing our government toward peace and justice, and to punish us for trying.

[One_Life_To_Give]

50. naive, because spent most of my time on the other side

I have no knowledge about the inner workings in Seattle.

In my experience I have not met Police Officers who could be described as
not their intention to keep people safe, when it comes to large-scale citizen pressure on our corporate-controlled government

We agree that the problems are caused by a small number of individuals at these events. Maybe they are agents Provocateur from the government or corporate interests. Or maybe they are just opportunist hooligans but then again just maybe they are part of a loosly knit group of Anarchists out to sew as much confusion and destruction as possible?

[sangfroid]

70. Oh yeah, I remember Seattle!

Yes, like that delightful Seattle cop who doused two female journalism students with pepper spray while shouting "Tape this, Bitch!" for no particular reason he cared to give when his buddies got around to arresting him a few weeks later. Good thing the students had their video camera running or the Seattle PD would have done one of their traditional "pepper spray? What pepper spray? It was Chanel #5" response.

Or the lovely police tactic of compressing peaceful demonstrators into smaller and smaller groups so that no one could move until finally someone "broke" the highway safety code by stepping onto the street or touching a parked car, upon which this threat to public safety was snatched up and arrested.

Here's an interesting article with some real insight into Seattle:

http://www.monitor.net/monitor/seattlewto/seattlewto15.html

The thing is, tactics like this work both ways for the cops: to cast suspicion on the more "energetic if mouthy" types look like cops; and by providing a reason for their buds in the riot squad to break out the rubber bullets.

I am sure most cops are cops to work for the public good and help people, but the red squads are a whole different kettle of fish. Those are the guys into it solely for the joy of breaking a few heads and putting "commies" and "reds" in jail. Got nothing to do with public service.

[Cookie wookie]

51. Could barely breathe while reading this.

Educational, moving, inspiring.

[ms liberty]

60. I wish you would post this as a stand-alone piece...

I'd be happy to K&R it for you! Excellent overview of the subject.

[Nikki Stone 1]

68. Interesting post. Should have a thread of its own. Nt

NT

[ima_sinnic]

69. what the #%(*& are you talking about?

I can't even begin to respond to your ridiculous BS, I feel so angry.
Go "infiltrate" the murderous, traitorous regime of BushCo if you think the people need to be made "safe" from those who would perpetrate violence and acts of terror against the people and everything that is decent.
Domestic spying is what a-hole rat-bastards do. Scumbag, sneaky, despicable, spying, lying infiltrators should be strung up by their balls. Thanks for coming out, we need to know who's who around here. You are the first person I have ever put on my ignore list.

[High Plains]

32. Jerry Brown may have been a liberal once.

Now he licks the cops' boots.

[midnight]

54. It must of happened after he broke up with Linda Rondstat.

Did he ever get married?

[glitch]

35. Were you at the protest in SF against the inauguration?

There was this weird dude walking around showing people his laminated card of protest statements. But he insisted they take it from him and hold it to read it.

It was odd, and I believe to this day he was collecting fingerprints. He was acting like he might be mentally disadvantaged, but he had bright eyes.

I gave my prints, figured they might as well know I was against their coup.

Welcome to DU!

[midnight]

56. It just makes police not so legitimate.

[not systems]

6. Police spies chosen to lead war protest

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/28/SURVEILLANCE.TMP

OAKLAND
Police spies chosen to lead war protest

Demian Bulwa, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, July 28, 2006

Two Oakland police officers working undercover at an anti-war protest in May 2003 got themselves elected to leadership positions in an effort to influence the demonstration, documents released Thursday show.

The department assigned the officers to join activists protesting the U.S. war in Iraq and the tactics that police had used at a demonstration a month earlier, a police official said last year in a sworn deposition.

At the first demonstration, police fired nonlethal bullets and bean bags at demonstrators who blocked the Port of Oakland's entrance in a protest against two shipping companies they said were helping the war effort. Dozens of activists and longshoremen on their way to work suffered injuries ranging from welts to broken bones and have won nearly $2 million in legal settlements from the city.

...

But Schlosberg said the ACLU had surveyed 94 law enforcement agencies last year and found that just eight were aware of the guidelines. Only six had written policies restricting surveillance activities, he said.

[readmoreoften]

7. Who has photos of these fuckers?

I want to see these totalitarian liar shills.

[daleo]

8. I hope they feel stupid now

Given what a disaster the Chimp war has been. The police should keep the peace and stay out of political demonstrations.

[Selatius]

9. It sounds like COINTELPRO on a smaller scale.

They tried to disrupt the Southern Christian Leadership Conference even though it was established by people like Martin Luther King to fight segregation. They felt the SCLC was a militant Black nationalist front.

[Ready4Change]

10. So, what influence did they exert?

The protests wound up getting shot at by uniformed police firing "nonlethal" bullets and bean bags.

Was that the goal? Because I would think, with two people elected to leadership positions and working together, they might have tried to, I dunno, keep people from getting shot at?

[madrchsod]

11. always remember that there will be spies

in any organization. it`s been done for thousands of years....

[fooj]

16. yep.

[blm]

55. GOPs had operatives working in EVERY Dem candidate's campaign.

NOTHING is too small for them to stick their noses into and control where they can.

[madeline_con]

12. It makes no sense....

From the article:

"But in a deposition related to a lawsuit filed by protesters, Deputy Police Chief Howard Jordan said activists had elected the undercover officers to "plan the route of the march and decide I guess where it would end up and some of the places that it would go."

Places that it would go? This seems to imply that without the guidance of these infiltraitors, the protesters wouldn't have been smart enough to make their way to the port area where the injuries were sustained.

OR, that the police set them up so they could abuse them with "non-lethals" just to get their jollies.

:shrug:


EDIT: spelling :eyes:

[SensibleAmerican]

13. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2418807

[Judi Lynn]

15. This was the event in which people were shot up and injured, whose

photos have been posted here at D.U. various times. It still looks so bad after a few years have passed:

[superconnected]

57. I didn't follow this. What happened to these people in the pics?

[Judi Lynn]

61. Police shot them with wooden dowels.

I have read in other places police are instructed to shoot the dowels at the ground, and then they ricochet up and smack protestors, but the ground is supposed to break their force. In Oakland, the cops shot directly at the people.

From the San Jose Mercury News via Common Dreams:

Published on Monday, April 7, 2003 by the San Jose Mercury News
Police Violence Shocks Activists, Others at Port of Oakland Protest
by Dana Hull

An anti-war demonstration at the Port of Oakland turned violent this morning when Oakland Police opened fire with wooden dowels, ``sting balls,'' concussion grendades, tear gas and other non-lethal weapons when protesters at the gates of two shipping lines refused an order to disperse.

Scores of protesters ran from a line of police or tried to hide behind nearby big rigs. At least a dozen demonstrators and nine longshoremen who were standing nearby were injured.

``Our guys were standing in one area waiting to go to work, and then the police started firing on the longshoremen,'' said Henry Graham, the president of ILWU Local 10. ``Some were hit in the chest with rubber bullets, and seven of our guys went to the hospital. I don't want to imply that the police deliberately did this, but it doesn't make sense.''

There have been so many anti-war demonstrations in the Bay Area in recent months that they have almost become routine, and most have been peaceful. Monday's events mark the first time that local police have used projectiles to disperse crowds, and many demonstrators said they were stunned that the projectiles were fired at such close range.

``I was just marching in a big circle and the police lowered their guns at us,'' said Scott Fleming, 29, who took off his shirt to reveal four large red and swollen welts on his back. ``I turned to run and I started getting hit with wooden bullets. They just kept shooting at us, and I kept running. I'm a lawyer, and I'm seriously considering filing charges.''
(snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-07.htm

[Peace Patriot]

17. The Oakland police have some bad dudes. They more than likely had a

hand in bombing Judi Bari. They arrested Judi for her own bombing, and ignored leads to other potential perps. Her heirs (after she died of cancer) and survivor Daryl Cherney eventually won a $7 million award for mistreatment by FBI/Oakland Police. It was a Cointelpro op. And Jerry Brown is dirty with the politics of that protest at the docks. He's close with the Fishers of the Gap clothing empire, whose scion Donald Fisher is a Bushite player, big on "free trade," helped write the WTO textile rules, which resulted in the proliferation of sweatshops worldwide. Gap uses sweatshops in Saipan, and got sued (by Global Exchange) for putting "Made in USA" labels on their clothes. Saipan is a US Territory but it is NOT subject to US labor laws. Bushite junkets there, too (Abramoff et al). And Fisher has a big interest in keeping the shipping ports open, AND in busting the Longshoreman's union. I'm sorry but Jerry Brown is NOT "one of the 20th century's greatest liberals." He's one of the 20th century's greatest sell-outs. He's now a Corporatist, through and through. I don't think he's worse than many other Democrats. And I still kind of like him, in the same way I still like Bill Clinton (maybe because the rabid right reviled both of them so much). But the man who appointed Rose Bird to the California Supreme Court, and who drove an old VW to work as governor, is gone. Being mayor of Oakland is all about corporations and the prison-industrial complex exploiting poor blacks. His stint as mayor has put him on the wrong side of the class war--the fascist side.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Thanks for the background on ""one of 20th century's greatest liberals!"

I never knew much about this guy, as I never paid much attention to him, living far away from his state. It's true that people like him attracted extreme reactions from foaming-at-the-mouth right-wingdings, as they had high name recognition, and Republicans had Richard Nixon, Spiro Agnew, John Mitchell, Ronald Reagan, and other right-wing luminaries who made healthy people gag, cringe, or snicker.

Now that you've posted some background on Brown, it just may happen that conspicuous right-wingers who post here may decide to revisit their views of him, and adjust them accordingly. Sounds as if he's one of theirs, for sure.

Too bad to hear he just can't get clean. He should change parties. He'd be at home with Republicans.

[Peace Patriot]

19. I'm afraid that far too many of our Demcratic Party leaders are more

comfortable with Republicans and fatcat financiers than they are with their constituents. How else explain their TOTAL SILENCE about Bushite corporations "counting" all our votes with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls? I mean, come on...

[Peace Patriot]

20. Hey, Judi Lynn! I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for all

your many posts on developments in Latin America. You're doing a magnificent service for DUers. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Judi Lynn]

21. I do the easy stuff Peace Patriot. I would give ANYTHING for your

writing skill, and your ability to get information in front of people who are interested, or even seeing it for the first time. You write with such feeling, such conviction you bring people to think about these events we are seeing.

I post the info. when I can find it. You add something far larger, and your spirit is contageous to many of us. I've seen it mentioned over and over again by other posters.

It's tremendous knowing the actual number of DU'ers is growing who are interested in Latin America and the Caribbean, who are hoping to see the day American power-mad Republican pResidents stop bumbling around and creating havoc in these countries, and start acting like actual human beings, in a real world, rather than idiots on vacation.

[Peace Patriot]

31. I woke up this morning to your reply--what a sweet good morning!

The wonderful thing, the thing that's so heartening and inspiring, is that Latin Americans seem to be taking care of things themselves in the best way possible--peaceful, democratic, Leftist revolutions, and the Bolivarian idea of regional cooperation and strength to fend off interference. I have been amazed by these developments, given the history of brutal oppression. It's as if someone had waved a Fairy Wand over Latin America to erase violent resentment, and retaliation. (The Middle East could use some of that Fairy Dust!) I don't mean to dis the hard work that's gone into this transformation, but to us ignorant, isolated, propagandized northerners, it does seem miraculous. I can't help but think that the Latin way of combining indigenous Paganism with passionate Catholicism (Ix Chel/Our Lady of Guadalupe)--so like the Irish--expresses some special strength in the Latin character, that enables them to ground negative energy and change it into life energy, into love.

I remember Bishop Romero's death, and that horrible photo of the slaughtered nuns, and all the death squad activity in El Salvador, around the time John Lennon was killed (his assassination bumped it all out of the headlines--something he would have hated--and one has to wonder now if that's why he was killed). And Allende's death in Chile is still fresh in my mind; also, the horrors that were being reported from Guatemala. Michele Batchelet--a Pinochet torture victim--being elected president of Chile is just astonishing to me. And I wept when Evo Morales was elected president of Bolivia (especially at the indigenous ceremony around it). The kind faces of these two leaders moves me deeply. It's been so long since we saw such humanity and connectedness in our own leaders' faces. I also have to smile at Hugo Chavez's resemblance to the old Olmec statues--that paradigm of the stocky, sturdy, healthy little baby god. He has such a jolly ambiance. How can someone like that be president of a nation? Aren't presidents bought and paid for corporatists and/or cold, calculating liars and killers? Does democracy really work (if permitted to)--with the best rising to the top?

I guess our own democracy has been so artificial--so horribly interfered with--for so long, that we have almost forgotten what real democracy can do. Now, WE are the "South Americans"--the victims of Banana Republic dictators (in this case with greatly magnified power to do harm). And we have somehow to find our way back through this Dark Wood to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

It's as if Latin Americans are kindly leaving us a trail of bread crumbs. ("Follow this path, kids! Democracy is this way! Come on--out of the darkness, into the light!")

(Hey, I'm starting to write like Borges!)

[Barrett808]

26. "I am Governor Jerry Brown / My aura smiles and never frowns" n/t

[glitch]

36. Thank you for mentioning Judy Bari. Incredible woman, very vibrant speaker

I recommend everybody listen to her speeches, some archived at http://www.radio4all.net/
(their site is down right now otherwise I'd give a direct link).

[glitch]

46. It's up now. Enter Judi Bari in the search box and you'll get 26 audio

links.

[TomClash]

22. This is called State Crime Creation

A creative marketing plan by law enforcement!

[izzybeans]

24. Espionage: The people are the enemy

The government is at war with the constitution and the people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage

[IndianaGreen]

25. This is a rerun of the 1960s police operations against anti-Vietnam War

protesters.

These things happen when the government sees the people as a bigger threat than foreign terrorists. Not long ago it was disclosed that the Pentagon and Homeland Security had LGBT groups under surveillance for their opposition to "don't ask, don't tell" homophobic policies of the military.

[xchrom]

27. indeed -- we know the police here in the bay area

infiltrated peace organizations and influenced sole of their operations.

the oakland police have a bad history including hiring southern ''bulls'' at a time when race relations were heating up in this town.

these are classic status quo techniques for illegaling controlling the citizens and subverting the peoples rights to gather and protest.

[OKthatsIT]

28. Planting instigators is a given...BUT, proving it is rare.

[nytemare]

37. While they are worried about peaceniks, our ports are not secure.

Bin Laden is still out there. Surely, there IS terrorist activity going on. The administration would rather the public be afraid of the threat of terrorism than actually do anything about it. Meanwhile, they are worried about treehuggers, who are just exercising their rights.

[illumn8d]

43. This is pretty messed up...

The article doesn't mention, however, what these undercover cops suggested in their leadership roles. I wonder if this will leak out.

[Selatius]

44. This sounds like COINTELPRO from the 1960s all over again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

One of the most notable victims of government intimidation was Martin Luther King, Jr.

[PittPoliSci]

47. that's exactly what i was thinking.

[illumn8d]

45. More info on the intelligence gathering here

Well it seems the state was in on it, but no info about the feds.

http://www.labournet.net/docks2/0603/oakland1.htm

----snip
Instead, the documents show that the San Francisco Police Dept. told the OPD the Local 10 had taken a public stand against the war and that longshore workers would likely “sympathize with the protesters and participate in the direct action.” Further, according to an investigative report in the May 18, 2003 edition of the Oakland Tribune, the OPD received an “intelligence” report from the California Anti-Terrorism Information Center (CATIC) five days before the demonstration. The CATIC, a state agency staffed with personnel from the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agnecy and other federal, state and local agencies, warned the police the protesters might turn violent. The CATIC selectively gleaned information from activist websites and list-serves and intercepted email correspondence of ILWU members to support its notions of the protest and protesters.

The Tribune quoted CATIC spokesman Mike Van Winkle justifying his agency’s tactics.

“f you have a protest group protesting a war where the cause that’s being fought against is international terrorism, you might have terrorism at that ,” Van Winkle said. “You can almost argue that a protest against that is a terrorist act.”

[Peace Patriot]

53. Can his name really be "Van Winkle"? What era did he wake up from?

The Inquisition?

Terror, my ass. Who created and funded Al Qaeda? Who benefits from Al Qaeda--to the tune of billions and billions and billions (and if you count future money--on our credit) trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars?

As a matter of fact, who created Saddam Hussein?

"You can almost argue that a protest against that is a terrorist act."

I explained, above, that there is something very wrong in our police organizations, and gave some evidence for it. One of the problems is that they are not really "ours." They are not of the people, by the people and for the people. Well, some are "of"--being working class, but are very exploited, and asked to be on the front lines of repression, and in the line-of-fire of angry, exploited, rudderless, poverty-stricken communities, whom everyone else has forgotten. Some of these cops are saints, I'm sure. Some are the opposite. But I'm mainly talking about their bosses, and their bosses' bosses, the corporate property-owners and their political tools in government.

To protest our government wasting a billion dollars a day (or whatever it is--they won't tell us) on executing their own created tool, Saddam Hussein, by slaughtering a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis (in the initial bombing alone), destroying their country, taking it over, and torturing hundreds of innocent people on top of that, is a "terrorist act"?

Where is this "Rip Van Winkle" getting his information from? Pope Innocent III?* Does he really believe it? Possibly he's just lying. Because, see, some of those billions are going into beefed up police repression of the poor and the dissenting, and its associated prison-industrial complex. In fact, some of the bad cops in our police forces were used at Abu Ghraib. They were a bit too over-the-top for our prison system, so they tried out some of their techniques over in Iraq, and I'm sure now have plenty of work in Bush Cartel employ. It's all one big boondoggle for the fascist element--with nothing in history to rival it.

That would be the motive for LYING that a protest against the Iraq war "is a terrorist act." But I think it's more likely that he DOES believe it, and that it's typical of the confusion in "our" police forces about who the enemy is.

Like many colluders in Bush's "war on terror," the police have gone down the wrong road for the sake of money, of funding. And it's all funding for the WRONG THINGS. IF we had a LEGITIMATE government, creating policy that is in OUR interests, dealing with true terrorist threats WOULD BE a police matter. It's most certainly NOT a matter for the military. Use of the military has only made the situation infinitely worse. If we had a real government, this money--wasted on the slaughter of Iraqis, and stolen hand over fist by Bushite contractors--would be going to police and intelligence agencies for REAL national security, and would also be used for REAL peace initiatives in the Middle East.

Everything is topsy turvy. The government is spying upon, and the police are being paid lots of bucks to repress, US., the people, who are conducting ONLY peaceful activities. (Where is there a peace group in this country who would abide Al Qaeda or ANY terrorist? Show me! What peace group is making bombs?). And they are robbing US to pay for this--and for their slaughterous, heinous adventure in Iraq! Robbing us literally, with an unfair tax structure. Robbing us, as to desperately needed social programs, like universal health care. Robbing us, by letting oil giants and others jack up prices at every opportunity. Robbing us, by failing to provide the services we've paid for--such as emergencies services during Katrina. Robbing us, by failing to provide a living wage for our labor. Robbing us in every way imaginable--to pay for this corporate oil war, and to pay for police to stop us from bombing and terrorizing our fellow Americans.

And robbing the cops, too--of funding for their rightful duties. (They are also sending cops who are National Guard over to Iraq!--and we are doubly deprived of experienced cops AND Nat'l Guard if they are needed.)

Upside down. Inside out. Backwards. Alice in Wonderland. With war profiteers and prison-industrial profiteers running things, and everybody doing the wrong job. Raw recruits put in charge of prisoners. Non-Arab speaking young Republicans put in charge of the occupation government of Iraq. The military shooting innocents and rebels in order to "stop terrorism." Valerie Plame trying to make a living writing books instead of hunting down and stopping WMD proliferation. And Bush, Mr. Whacko himself, being the "decider" of all this, a world that never should have been. BushWorld.

Well, not all cops are bad. I know that to be true. But, jeez. You'd think they'd go after the REAL perps, the ones who are smashing this country to pieces, beyond recognition. But that would be a police force that was "ours."

----------

*(Pope Innocent III was the instigator of the First Crusade, which wasn't against the Arabs or Persians, but against the Christian Goddess worshippers in Southern France. The Albingensian Crusade. 20,000 people slaughtered, for practicing an alternative Christianity--and one a lot closer to the original, as a matter of fact.)

[RoseMead]

63. I get your point,, but your history is wrong

The First Crusade was begun in 1095 by Pope Urban II, It was directed at recapturing Jerusalem, and was the only crusade that actually achieved that goal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

The Albigensian Crusade was launched by Pope Innocent III in 1209. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

The Albigensian Crusade was dircted against the Cathars, who practiced a form of dualistic, Gnostic Christianity. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathars) To call them goddess worshippers is incorret. Rather, they were Christian heretics, whose beliefs were similar in some ways to those of the Bogomils and the Paulicians. They believed that the material world was evil and had been created by an evil, lesser god, while all that was truely good and holy existed outside of the material world. Therefore, they argued, Jesus could not have been the son of the good God and also have incarnated materially, which amounted to a challenge against he concept of Jesus as "true God and true man." The Church persecuted them because of these beliefs, and the king of France ultimately joined in because it allowed him to crush the nobility of the Languedoc region. The Languedoc (southern France) had a different language and culture than that of Northern France and the nobles there were very powerful. When the pope issued a decree that all Cathar lands could be rightfully confiscated, the king and the northern nobility saw it as holy permission for a brutal land grab and a chance to bring the Languedoc nobility under tighter control.

I also don't know that it's fair to say that Catharism was closer to "original" Christianity than the official Church teachings of the time, because I've never seen any evidence that original Christianity was dualist. But it is fair to say that Catharism was gnostic, and Gnosticism is a very old variant of Christianity.


Catharism and the Albigensian Crusade are special interests of mine. :)

[Peace Patriot]

65. I stand corrected. It was the SECOND Crusade. I used the phrase

"Goddess worshipers" to best explain to our contemporaries what the Albigensians believed and what kind of culture they created. They were descendants of the ancient Gnostic Christians who believed in a balance in the Heavens of Male and Female principles, God the Father and God the Mother. The worship of God the Mother had to go underground for five centuries, after the horrors of the Church Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon, and the subsequent pogroms against Pagans (the Great Mother religion), and the original Christians (the Gnostics, who prayed to both God the Father and God the Mother, who had women priests, and who lived communally) and all Christian variety of thought (such as the Pelagians in Ireland--a far gentler, more nature-loving form of Christianity than the one imposed on them later by Rome). Jews were also persecuted.

All of these repressed religions had deep connections to the vast learning of the ancient Greeks and Phoenicians--in science, astronomy, mathematics, engineering, navigation/map-making, medicine, herbology, music, literature, art and all high skills--centered at Alexandria. The high culture of the Troubadours flourished among the Albigensians. These were highly skilled poets and singers who fostered love and high honor for women--"courtly love" (rather than women as being men's possessions and chattels). And behind it was the worship of the ancient Goddess--both Mother Nature and the Muses (the goddesses of the higher arts in men). Their poetry and song worshiped the feminine principle of nature, and combined this with rising above carnal desires and nurturing love for its own sake (very Buddhist, actually). The highest love was for women who are unattainable--to love her for her inherent qualities (beauty, kindliness, intelligence), not as someone to physically conquer. It was also in Southern France that worship of Mary Magdalen flourished. That's where the tradition came from that she was married to Jesus and had his child, and moved to Southern France for refuge after the crucifixion--the point being that Jesus did not spurn women.

The 5th century AD editings of the gospels--carried out by the bookburners of Ephesus and Chalcedon--confused the picture of the women around Jesus, and may have blatantly edited out Jesus' more balanced view of things. In the banned Gospel of Mary, for instance, Mary Magdalen was the acknowledged leader of the apostles, and was deferred to as the one who best understood his teachings. It is the OLDEST gospel, of which only a fragment remains. Also, I strongly suspect that "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" was a 5th century interpolation. It is completely out of tune with everything else Jesus said. He had zero interest in "building" a church. He was clearly--relentlessly--anti-institutional, and anti-property.

To call the Albigensians "Christian heretics" is a wrong acceptance of the tyrannical terms of Rome. It is more accurate to call them the last vestige of the true Christians. Their characteristics were tolerance and communality, also egalitarianism--just like the Gnostics. They also strongly resembled the ancient Pythagoreans, in that they developed an elite class not of the rich, not of warriors, but of people devoted to high wisdom, learning, self-denial (transcendence of the material realm) and other spiritual concerns. This elite viewed all people as on a journey toward higher knowledge, and they were tolerant of indulgence of the senses (enjoyment of beauty, nature, food, sex) and of a variety of beliefs, as part of everyone's journey, THEMSELVES EXCEPTED. They were not self-indulgent--they followed strict regimens of self-discipline--but they were not repressive. They were tolerant and forgiving.

The piggish, powermongering, property-acquiring prelates in Rome were in truth far more dualistic than the Albigensians. The Roman prelates utterly separated spirituality from this life, and completely and totally misinterpreted Jesus's teaching as "hell on earth" and "heaven later," which gave them leave to be materialistic pigs who believed that they would be "forgiven" on their death beds for all their gluttony, fornication and warfare. Talk about dualism! And they hadn't a clue about "love thy neighbor." They repressed that message. Jesus said, if you would be perfect, "give all you have to the poor and come follow me." They repressed that, too--and lived the OPPOSITE of it.

The Albigensians, their forebears, the Gnostics, the Pelagians in Ireland, the Christian Druids in Wales, and similar anti-Rome groups took that original message SERIOUSLY. Give all you have to the poor and come follow me. Love thine enemy. The highest wisdom is to extinguish the individual ego, and not to be arrogant about what you know--to serve humanity on its great journey. The Roman church took the opposite course--180 degrees away from what Jesus said--and led Europe into a thousand years of darkness, in which small burning flames of the original inspiration sometimes appear--like the Albigensians--and were brutally extinguished.

I think you are altogether too accepting of the Roman version of events. The bookburners, the inquisitionists, the powermongers of Rome intended to stamp out human freedom! The Albigensians represented freedom of thought, which the Roman Church had been trying to destroy for five centuries, as they accumulated more and more property and power, using tyranny over the human soul as their chief tool. That warriors got into it--and power-interested nobles--was entirely at the instigation of the Pope. But the purpose was to reign over Europe by reigning over the human mind, and forcing people to believe that they had a soul that could only be "saved" by saying and the believing the right things, no matter how crazy or inconsistent they were, dictated by Rome. Their resemblance to today's Bushites is haunting!

The Albigensians were not "heretics." They were US--the believers in freedom and liberality and enlightened policy--trapped in the 13th century, as we are trapped in BushWorld. BushWorld, however, has a ludicrous quality, and a very small base of support, both in the US and the rest of the world, unlike the poor Albigensians, who tried to create an enlightened society in the depths of the Dark Ages, and were hopelessly outnumbered.

[raysr]

49. I was in Army Intelligence

'68 to '70 as a courier. The ARMY had agents infiltrated in ALL the anti-war organizations. The army knew about demonstrations being planned before the people that participated in them.

[bperci108]

59. Which is testament to the old principle:

"If you are going to commit an illegal act, do it alone. If you have to have help, choose as your assistant your oldest, most trusted friend - someone you have known for a lifetime. If it takes three or more of you, you are as good as caught."


There's a lot to be said for the principle of "Leaderless Resistance". ;)

[Joey Liberal]

58. Our Police have become the GOP Gestapo n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

62. Moral: Anyone telling you to do something stupid IS GOVERNMENT SPY.

Everyone over 40 knew that already but this is a good lesson for younger folks.

It also shows the impotance of questioning authority even within the left and of following your own judgement,

[BlueIris]

64. OMFG, it really IS 1968 around here. Jesus H. Christ.

Ya know, when this was an episode of L&O, Adam Schiff got to give the police department responsible quite the legal beating. If we're going to be able to literally travel back in time in this country, I think we should also be able to turn life into a television show. ADAM SCHIFF FOR PRESIDENT!!!

Sorry. The House invoking "martial law" has made me insane with anger.

[newspeak]

66. oh, this is so sixties!!!!!

Reminds me of the Law and Order episode, where they find an old VW bus in the river from the Vietnam days with a dead body in it. Turns out that the guy was a cop who was inciting the protestors to do outrageous things, to discredit them. Unfortunately, a security guard whose son died in Vietnam wound up killing him, thinking he was disrespecting his son's memory--when the cop agitator spilled pigs blood on a memorial plaque. OOPS!!!! Well, it seems that Nixon's old buddies are in this administration---THEY'RE BACK!!!!!!

[newspeak]

67. oops, BlueIris

we think alike--another L&O episode!:-)