LAT:Bush Now Directing Attention to Revamping Social Security

[DeepModem Mom]

President Bush is completing plans to campaign next year for a restructuring of Social Security, a potentially divisive drive that he believes is "a winning issue" for Republicans — and for his own legacy.


Bush may enjoy advantages over predecessors who tried to revamp Social Security. His success in overseeing change in Medicare could give weight to his 2000 campaign claim of being a "reformer with results." And the sense of anxiety over Social Security is mounting as the day of the program's inability to pay promised benefits — now estimated to occur in about 2039 — draws closer.


When Bush established the Social Security commission in May 2001, he laid out six "guiding principles" that included no changes for retirees or near-retirees regardless of the commission's recommendations; no increase in the payroll tax; and the creation of individually controlled, voluntary personal retirement accounts, which dovetails with the president's vision of an "ownership society."


Many Democrats in Congress vociferously oppose the creation of such (private investment) accounts, saying that such a move toward "privatization" would be a prescription for financial ruin for seniors whose investment choices do not pan out, especially if the stock market experiences another slump.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bushsocial30nov30,1,2875909.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Boggles the mind, Boggles the mind, Boggles the mind etc.

'Bush may enjoy advantages over predecessors who tried to revamp Social Security. His success in overseeing change in Medicare could give weight to his 2000 campaign claim of being a "reformer with results."'

Right now the verdict is out whether medicare reform was a success. The voters haven't spoken yet.

[loudnclear]

20. Republicans finally will have their way: destroy Medicare and SS

Newt's wet dream.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. I doubt this country will be better for it.

I've been noticing a great disconnect between generations, race and class. It's each man for himself, now. We, as a country, will never be the same. And for the first time in my life, I see this country disuniting in the same manner the Soviet Union did. We have very little now, to keep us together.

[NashVegas]

2. Privatized SS = Wholesale Subsidy for Wall St.

Does the stock exchange really need to be subsidized?

[UpInArms]

3. well, as the PPT

runs dry on options (no pun intended), a new scheme will have to be developed.

[ClintonTyree]

4. This would become.......

his Waterloo, if indeed he hasn't reached it already. To mess with the big two, Medicare and Social Security, and sell both programs out to big business, would certainly mean disater for the Republican party in 2004.

Ther has been so much furor about the Medicare vote already by Seniors, if he in any way threatened S.S. he'd never get one vote from the senior citizens.

This Chimp seems to think all is going swimmingly (at least that's what he's being told by his handlers) and that he has no opposition and everyone loves him. A cold dose of reality is awaiting Bush in 2004.

Many Republicans recognize this are are not going to hich their star to Bush knowing it will cost them their cushy positions if they do. This will never float.

[DeepModem Mom]

5. Interesting article raising issue of senior voting patterns...

I posted in GD, from LA Times, Ron Brownstein:


The debate over entitlement reform is sharpening as seniors have become an increasingly fluid constituency, less firmly attached to either party and more influenced by the same constellation of values issues that are driving many younger voters.


For 2004, the key lesson from this history may be that far from voting solely on the giant federal programs that so intimately affect their lives — Social Security and Medicare — many seniors are also moved by the broader events shaping any election, from the backlash among cultural conservatives against Bill Clinton in 2000 to homeland security in 2002.

In the Los Angeles Times exit poll in the 2000 presidential race, for instance, as many seniors cited moral values as Social Security as the principal reason for choosing between Gore and Bush. Less than half as many seniors cited prescription drugs as the principal motivation for their vote than either morality or Social Security in that survey.

A Times Poll this month found seniors leaning strongly toward a Democrat over Bush in 2004, largely because the poll shows them to be much more critical of Bush's policies in Iraq than younger Americans


"Both Parties Claim Entitlement from Medicare Package"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-medicare30nov30,1,1084537.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[The Zanti Regent]

7. Once again, the LIES ANGELES TIMES sides with the Nazi Republikkkans.

They're run by the same gang of Supply Side Jesus worshippers as the WHORESHINGTON POST.

they FORGET that Social Security pays DISABILITY and SURVIVOR benefits in addition to Retirement benefits. They FORGET that there is a 1 in 6 probability that workers will be disabled for a period of over a year sometime during their lives.

How much longer are we going to let these Supply Side Jesus Freaks tear down what is left of civilized society and get away with it scot free?

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

17. I've been on disability

nearly a decade now for stress-related problems. I finally got it together enough to buy a home, since stability is a big factor in my psychological maintenance, and major rent changes were causing havoc in my life, along with drug bills,which are considerable and don't look to improve under the recent passage of the the pharmaceutical companies' wish list.

The stability of my SSDI was the big factor in being granted a fixed-rate loan. And now Bush* wants to "improve it"? This scares the shit out of me.

For the first time since all this shit began in 1990, I am afraid of becoming homeless.

[dusty64]

6. Rumor has it

the aarp "leadership" is totally for this also and intends to back it against the will of their members.

[The Zanti Regent]

8. Rumor?

You know AARP = ALWAYS ADVANCING REPUBLIKKAN AGENDA!

[ikojo]

36. AARP is already running ads in support of

social security "reform."

There was an article in the NYT last week that said the reason there has been a change in AARP politics is due to the influx of baby boomers. They don't have the memories of the Great Depression that their parents had. For the most part they have known nothing but prosperity and see government as the bad guy.


Remember the pugs could not have passed the changes in Medicare without Democratic help....there were 11 Dems who supported Bush's proposals and some who didn't vote.

[SoCalDem]

9. .."near-retirees".. That's the key phrase

The baby boomers are ALL.. near retirees, yet the plans being bandied about never DEFINE the actual age they are talking about.... We do not have time to start over.. We have paid into a system that promised US benefits , for 40 + years, and now they are trying to rip us off.. Our payments were HUGE as a group.. There was more than enough to be generous to our parents and grandparents, and STILL have a comfy reserve for US.. But our government could not keep their greedy mitts off it..

All those sweet deals to corporations, and rich-folks' giveaways, came directly from OUR money.. Now that they have spent it all, we are the ones who will be up shit creek without a paddle..

People in the Boomer age groups are the ones who are in the declining years of productivity, and since our health care system is fractured, we are the FIRST ones to be downsized.. Our massive numbers precipitated the ending of real pensions, so most of us do not have that to rely on.. The S&L scandals hit us in the pocket book, TWO recessions, and 8 years of Reagan ,the dot com bubble, the Enronization of business, and the recent "free money for rich people" policies have pretty much hung a permanent black cloud over our retirement years..

It's really sad, but most of my peers are not looking forward to retirement...they are SCARED of it, and some are hoping to die young, instead of spending years in poverty..:(

Thanks..republicans..:(

[The Zanti Regent]

10. That is what the Supply Side Jesus Freaks want.

Survival of the fittest, you know. If you can't make money for your Nazi masters, it's time for you to go!

[warrior1]

12. ya'll

didn't think that this punk was thru with screwing things up...

Of course what comes next is the democrats rolling over.

[PaDUer]

11. SoCal, you're so right..

and true..The big thing here is that the baby boomers are becoming of age for SS and medicare, and it's not going to be there..* is a baby boomer, however, he's filthy rich and padding his pockets along w/ the others who are helping him and nothing's being done. They've stolen the election, ripped the constitution apart, plus whatever else that we can go on and on about, AND did all this in the open while the people watched and have done nothing about. Another thing, he's sending the people's children off to die for his private interests, OIL..When are the people going to rise up and stop what's being done?

[abelenkpe]

38. When are the people going to rise up and stop what's being done?

When it effects their pocket books. I totally agree with your assesment that this is all being done to benefit the super rich. I have been going crazy over this and other issues: mainly the loss of overtime and health care benefits for grocery workers. The poeple I talk to at work just shrug their shoulders and say: 'Well it wont effect me.' Wrong, I think to myself. Just because we make decent salaries today we are still wage slaves. And if you refuse to work overtime for free you can be fired and replaced just like a Wal Mart worker. And once it is acceptable to deprive lower income workers of health care no corporation will feel the need to provide health care for any of it's workers. Some say to me: 'Well if I have to invest my social security money I will be smart about it.' Hah! I don't care how samrt someone may feel they are, the stock market is just a fancy man's gambling casino. Besides, I don't think it's wise to gamble with our nation's retirement safety net, and it is ludicrous to ask the average citizen to do so. Those who make money at the stock market have advisors and have studied the market. They are millionaires and professionals. The average person will lose everything, their social security, health care and overtime compensation, all in the name of a 'free market society.' Then, and only then will you see some real outrage in this country. I'm afraid things will have to get much worse before they will get better. But hopefully my pessimistic attitude is all wrong.

[saskatoon]

43. WHEN? well let me consult Orwell

The pitiful and frutrating part of all of this is the majority of people are so goddamn STUPID---they don't get it. They love that assholes little boy grin.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. SoCalDem, what an impassioned, and,

unfortunately, oh-so-true post. You've summed it all up --

[teryang]

14. Great Post!!

We have been victimized by the government repeatedly. Now they are getting ready to finish us off. Our numbers scare the shit out them so they are going for broke with a final plan to cripple us economically, socially and politically.

These m......f....rs need to be tarred and feathered!

[Vitruvius]

18. "tarred & feathered" and HANGED.

n/t

[shanti]

16. yeah what you said

"t's really sad, but most of my peers are not looking forward to retirement...they are SCARED of it, and some are hoping to die young, instead of spending years in poverty..:("

i believe that the cons want this to happen. this is definitely class warfare! :grr:

[Vitruvius]

22. We Baby Boomers bailed out the system when it was broke -- in 1982;

that's why our payments into Social Security were so HUGE; the Reagan Administration decided to gouge us but good to pay for OTHER PEOPLES' retirement, as well as pre-accumulating a fund (the "Social Security Surplus") for our own retirement.

Concurrently, the Reagan Administration cut taxes for the rich. And used our extra Social Security payments during the 1980s to fund their deficit -- to the tune of nearly $2 trillion dollars.

Now then, the projections of Social Security going broke in 2039 assume an economic growth rate lower than that during the Great Depression (1930 - 1939). More objective (but still very conservative) calculations say that Social Security is in good shape thru at least 2075, and probably forever. Assuming that Social Security tax payments are used for Social Security and not for tax cuts for the rich.

Again, IF the Rethugs weren't looting the Social Security Surplus to pay for tax cuts for the rich, Social Security would probably NEVER go broke -- assuming any reasonable economic growth rate.

But -- of course, the Rethugs are looting Social Security. The peak value of the Social Security Surplus (including interest) is projected to be approximately $6 trillion dollars -- in about 20 years. The cost of Bu$h's first tax cut ALONE (including interest) over the next 20 years is also $6 trillion dollars.

The bottom line? The Rethugs hiked our Social Security taxes, used our money to fund tax cuts for the rich under Reagan and Bu$h, and will chop our benefits so we eat dog food in our old age.

This is WAR. And the Rethugs are the enemy.

Vitruvius

P.S: The problem with Social Security is NOT "the huge baby boom generation"; by 2039, most of us will be DEAD; by 2075, all of us will be dead. We found the system broke, paid thru the nose so OTHER PEOPLE who paid too little could retire and collect benefits we'll never see; paid thru the nose so the system would be solvent long after we're gone, and now Bu$h* and co. are giving the money we paid-and-paid-and-paid to the rich thru tax cuts.

Thus destroying Social Security for us, and for our children.

[DeepModem Mom]

30. And when Al Gore talked about a Social Security "lockbox,"

the press and SNL turned it into a joke --

[kysrsoze]

39. Yup - and now it's my turn to start paying for you all....

only I really can't afford to. I can look forward to losing everything I've paid in so far. The kicker here is that it appears I can pay for my parents to live out their senior years OR pay for my own future - but not both.

The sickest thing is that all these rich, reich-wing motherf*ckers need to have every last dime they can get their miserly hands on, regardless of how many other people starve. So now, instead of only having, say, $250M to retire, thanks to Bush et al, they now have $255M. Whew - that could have been disastrous! There but for the grace of God....! Now their bitchy, do-nothing children will have even more cash to support them through their worthless lives.

Suppose all those assholes gave up 10% of their net worth and invested it in the working class of this and other countries. Think how different it all would be.

[Vitruvius]

40. The whole idea behind the Social Security surplus was for the boomers

to pre-fund much of their retirement -- so as to avoid being a burden on their children and other members of the workforce.

If the Bu$h rich are allowed to steal that money, the burden will fall on either the boomers -- eating dogfood -- or on the working class, or, most likely on BOTH.

UNLESS when we Dems come back to power, we have the GUTS to take the money back from the rich. They steal from us? Fine. We can take it back -- with interest and penalties.

Somebody's going to be confiscated to pay for this THEFT by the Bu$h rich. And it's either US (you and me) or THEM -- the Bu$h Rethug rich. Let's make sure it's THEM.

I don't want it to come out of your hide -- or mine. Let it come out of the thieving Rethug rich who stole it in the first place.

P.S: If the Bu$h Rethugs are so rich that they think they're entitled to steal elections and take over the gov't (as in 2000); if they think they're so rich and powerful they can confiscate what little we have -- maybe it's time to take ALL their money away.

The Bu$h rich have no respect for our property rights. Why should we have any respect for theirs?

[SoCalDem]

41. WE paid for two generations of retirees, AND put in enough

for OUR benefits, but that money was pilfered by some pretty shifty politicians..

I guess the solution will be arrived at in one way or another.. Either OUR money will be put back and we can "live sort of happily ever after", or we will be relying on our children..

or I guess we could all just flip burgers til we drop dead in the fryer:)

The generational dilemma is actually pretty new.. Up until the 50's people lived in multigenerational homes.. The cheap houses of the 50's , suburban sprawl, and easy credit that started in the 70's have led us to believe that EVERYONE should/can own a home of their own..

Don't fret too much, young one,..The stress that the boomers are facing will probably kill a lot of us before we ever reach retirement age :):(

[xxqqqzme]

29. well said!

I am a 'boomer' disabled by a auto accident in '95. It took me FIVE years 2 get disability and I had 2 get an attorney.

An earlier post mentioned 1 in 6 workers disabled but U need 2 remember U cannot apply for or received SSDI unless U R disabled 1+ years. My injuries were 'permanent and stationary' after 2 years but I was still denied benefits - primarily because I was under 50 and employable. And Soc Sec employable is not necessarily what U envision as employable. It is NOT a position 4 which U have experience or training nor does it include wage considerations. I am a certified paralegal w/ 12 years of experience in real property and commercial paper. When I was injured, I was making $50K/yr. But none of this was a factor. What was a factor was whether I could put little pieces of plastic crap together, @ minimum wage. (And I can't cuz I only have one working hand.) But that didn't stop them from denying my claim a 4th time.

Don't think U R going 2 get SSDI if U R injured. U have 2 fight 4 it, and they R betting U give up 'n don't pursue the claim after they deny U the 4th or 5th time.

[IndianaGreen]

15. The same Dems that voted to gut Medicare

will not vote to gut Social Security, and with that, the last vestiges of the New Deal will have been buried by Bush's 19th century capitalism.

Those that defend capitalism, shall definitely perish by it!

[DeathvadeR]

25. Don't be too sure.

Can you name 1 thing that hasn't passed that the repukes decided to rearange, restructure, ramthrough?

All with the help of many dems.

[DeepModem Mom]

19. Last Liberal in Palm Springs, post # 17,

Along with SoCal Dem's, reveal the effects of Bush's policies on real people --

[mbperrin]

21. Give back the $2 trillion from SS

that Ronnie Raygun "borrowed" for fucking Star Wars and all is good for the next hundred years!

Say, where the fuck are the RESULTS for those TRILLIONS spent on Star Wars, anyway?

People definitely get rich in the stock market - just ask around the last few years - (the Tyco guy, Kenny-boy and a bunch of others! No, wait, my bad, they got rich by being fucking crooks!) Never mind.

<edited for a hundred years>

[Zhade]

23. Ted Kennedy warned about this, as did many others.

And you just know that those assholes in Congress* knew Kennedy was right - and were okay with it.

*(just reminded me of lyrics from a song by Blowback: assholes in Congress/equate freedom with money/they're servants of power/of riches, of cowards...)

[joanski01]

24. And those

assholes in Congress knew that Senator Byrd was right, as well.

[Terwilliger]

26. How many Dems will vote for whatever plan he comes up with?

:nuke:

[DeathvadeR]

28. Enough to pass, thats all that matters.

What ever the King wants, He seems to get.

[DeathvadeR]

27. Revamping?

Don't they mean not repaying the funds they already spent.

Fuqing thieves!!!!!!! This shit is going to make the Enron fiasco look like a god damn monopoly game.

I feel real sorry for those that age group that dumped a shit load of money into this and are gonna be screwed.

[Malva Zebrina]

31. pretty predictable and

if the Medicare debacle is any indication, and I think it is, he will go down in history as the man who "reformed" SS and hung the boomers out to dry.

A good survival tool for those who fear retirement, might be to consider starting a church--the church of the Holy Baby Boomers--create a congregation, build a big building , do not pay taxes and live off of what everyone else pays and insist upon getting faith based charity money--because after Bush et al remove the SS, they will be heading for dissolution of separation of church and state and you will be already positioned--thus you will have a salary for the rest of your life by only working one day a week. It is steady work.

After that, he is going to "reform" public education, although that may be a little harder to do--but if he starves it enough people will be begging him to do something and the answer will be vouchers. The Bush "reform" goal is to remove every social program, every bit of the New Deal, every bit of anything that the rich folks have to pay to the ones beneath them because they don't want to work and want welfare. At the bottom of that is really the old Calvinist elitist religion, you know the one that says that predestination is the way god works, and you can tell if you are predestinated if you have a lot of money.

[DeepModem Mom]

32. "Church of the Holy Baby Boomers" -- a grim LOL! n/t

[Pastiche423]

37. You've got quite an idea there

Church of the Baby Boomers is a concept that can be accomplished all over the country.

We are the largest population in America today and we can organize. Hell, we are the best at organizing!

I bet there are a number of ex-AARP members that would be interested. Does anyone know what procedures are neccessary to start up a church?

[WHAT]

42. How "bout going COACH...

that is...Church of the American Centurion Has-beens?

While the first class "passengers" have luxury service including liposuction to insure mental health for persons with self-image problems, aqua-therapy to tone muscles without stressing joints, invitation only attendence at shopping "events", x to the n by-pass surgery, and even new faces (now possable) those in coach can enjoy generic defective geriatric kibbles, a shower every week, jello at holiday "events"...etc.

That anagram popped into my mind after reading your post, sorry. But the church idea seems like a good angle; however you look at it, older people need to form their own institutions to safeguard their interests sans AARP or other corrupting influences.

:hi:

edit typo

[bvar22]

33. The only FIX SS needs is raising the cap to $110,000.

I support REMOVING the cap.

Good Dem add:

Would you trust ENRON with your retirement money???



bush* and the republicans will give your retirement money to their friends at poorly regulated corporation to hold for you! Feel Safe?

Vote the greedy republicans OUT!

[saskatoon]

44. Damn! Is that the Nazi salute re Bush pic

[aquart]

34. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[alfredo]

35. We need to hit bush hard on his willingness to sell us out to private

businesses. We will have to tie him to the corporate criminals. We need to ask why is bush hiding from the 9-11 commission?

[dolstein]

45. I don't see what the fuss is about -- Gore would be doing this too

At least that's what Ralph Nader said in 2000. He said there wasn't any difference between Bush and Gore. So obviously, that must mean that Nader believed Gore agreed with Bush's social security privatization agenda.

[pinto]

46. Budget buster? Bail out? Boomerang?

This Admin consistently plays on the edge. Medicare "reform" i.e. redistribution of funds to the private sector, Iraq "Operation Freedom" i.e. global (corporate) revolution, and next Social Security "reform", i.e. more privitization. Enourmous deficits - that means debt, which every financial advisor tells us individually to avoid or manage well...while we take over the world we have to be careful not to spend our children into crippling deficits. <sarcasm>

[Q]

47. How can Bush* be seen as a 'reformer with results'...

...when the results are as yet unknown? Does he simply get credit for making changes whether they turn out to be good or bad? What kind of brainless propaganda is the latimes dealing?

[davhill]

49. By the time the results are known

He and his gang will have made a clean getaway. They will retire to the Cayman Islands and let the rest of the country go to hell.

[RebelOne]

50. At least I won't have to worry what happens in 2039

because I will be long dead by then. I am elibible to collect next year, but I'm going to hold out as long as possible to collect full benefits.