American voters increasingly split along religious lines

[ProudToBeLiberal]

Posted on Sun, Nov. 30, 2003

American voters increasingly split along religious lines
By STEVEN THOMMA
Knight Ridder Newspapers

DES MOINES, Iowa - Want to know how Americans will vote next Election Day? Watch what they do the weekend before.

If they attend religious services regularly, they probably will vote Republican by a 2-1 margin. If they never go, they likely will vote Democratic by a 2-1 margin.

This relatively new fault line in American life is a major reason that the country is politically polarized. And the division over religion and politics is likely to continue or even grow in 2004.

A new poll by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center For The People & The Press this fall confirmed that the gap remains; voters who frequently attend religious services tilt 63-37 percent to Bush and those who never attend lean 62-38 percent toward Democrats.

more...

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/7382330.htm

[Military Brat]

1. Regularly or never? Those are the only two choices?

What about those who attend only on Easter and Christmas? Are they the swing voters?

I guess it's time for the Dems to start catching the after-church crowd and giving them some of that old time democracy.

[cthrumatrix]

9. media game to get all "christians" to vote repug ..don't think..just vote

this is bullshit...and it's no coincidence that shrub is coached to use God in his assault when innocent people are dying daily in Iraq...

I guess none of the christians have medicare needs or social security or worry mch about the budget...

[alittlelark]

38. what christians are lacking is Christ

Thee New Testament is all but gone. Most of these people are not CHRISTians. That implies that you believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, sent by his Father to save us.

WAKE UP!!! Jesus was a pacifist, an extreme one at that. He fed the poor, and threw the moneychangers (bankers) out of the temple. I would argue that he was truly a socialst, if not a communist.

The Christian religion has been hijacked by evil little people (Falwell et al) and corporate interests. The Old Testament is more to their liking.

Haven't been to church in 8 years.......but I'm sure there are still some REAL ones, I wish they'd start speaking out or screaming. Maybe I'dd join

[bloom]

43. Here is a group...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/17/politics/17CLER.html?th

Clergy Group to Counter Conservatives
By LYNETTE CLEMETSON

Published: November 17, 2003

ASHINGTON, Nov. 14 ? In an effort to counter the influence of conservative Christian organizations, a coalition of moderate and liberal religious leaders is starting a political advocacy organization to mobilize voters in opposition to Bush administration policies.

The nonprofit organization, the Clergy Leadership Network, plans to formally announce its formation on Friday and will operate from an expressly religious, expressly partisan point of view. The group cannot, under Internal Revenue Service guidelines, endorse political candidates, and it will have no official ties to the Democratic Party.

But the driving purpose of the organization, according to its mission statement, is to bring about "sweeping changes ? changes in our nation's political leadership and changes in failing public policies."

The Rev. Albert M. Pennybacker, of Lexington, Ky., chief executive officer for the organization and the chairman of its national committee, said: "The Christian Right has been very articulate, but they have been exclusive and very judgmental of anyone who doesn't agree with them. People may want to label us the Christian Left. But what we really are about is mainstream issues and truth, and if that makes us left then that shines even more light on the need for a shift in our society.".....

[Bandit]

50. The best line I have read for a while

"and if that makes us left then that shines even more light on the need for a shift in our society.".....

[Liberator_Rev]

55. That's what "Liberals Like Christ" are all about !

We've been telling Americans that Christians would be Liberal Democrats IF they followed the example and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth:


at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org .

See what Christ might say about the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" imposters.

[JailBush]

2. Time for a Holy War

I guess those of us who don't attend church are America's Muslims. We better start working to take this country back from the NeoChristians.

[Voltaire99]

39. Beware answered prayers!

We may just get a Holy War of sorts here - a militant theocracy is a plausible future for us in the post-democratic era!

[htuttle]

3. This is a bogus poll

They are trying to squeeze out two extremes as representitive of a binary choice (R vs D).



The 'split' they show is representitive of a lot of other factors beyond religion as well, such as urbanization.

In addition, it discounts liberal Christians entirely. I actually do know a lot of Christians, and am good friends with someone in the seminary ( okay...it's a Unitarian seminary...). I see all of their churches come out and be represented whenever Madison protests against war (and Bush).

This is a poll with a purpose. No doubt, it is to show that Democrats are heathen, and Republicans are godly. :eyes:

[Gman]

19. good analysis

[stevedeshazer]

27. I agree

This is a giant overgeneralization. It is bullcrap.

[dusty64]

33. That was my

exact thought also.

[bain_sidhe]

4. and the meme is...

If you're a *real* christian, you'll vote for *

and its corollary,

If you vote for a Dem, you're not Christian.

This is a very destructive meme, IMHO. And this study is just another tool being used to propagate that meme "under the radar," by packaging it as a straight news item, instead of a political commentary (which, to our credit, we've learned to take with a grain of salt).

[bobd]

5. I said it Before and I'll Say it Again ...

I don't go to church because I'm NOT a Rethug. Religion teaches hatred and intolerance and I want none of it. Jesus apparently wants lots of brown people dead, apparently wants us to vote for Rethugs, apparently despises liberals, and really, really, really, really, really hates gays.

They can have their hate club. I'm not welcome and that's just fine with me.

Bob D.

[annak110]

12. These are true statements and I'm sure you've noticed

that the the Christian religion has always had the same enemies, for 1300 years it has used its methods of scapegoating and war to solidify and/or enlarge its power base. Look at the fascist movements across Europe and even here in the '30's.

Add to the 6 million Jews who were murdered in Europe in concentration camps the 6 million homosexuals, Romas, etc. who also died there and you will see the "enemies list". Listen as you have done to the present outpouring of hatred by "the religious" and you see it again.

[Cheswick2.0]

47. you are the other side of the problem

as much a cause of the issue as any christian republican. You are welcome, Jesus doesn't want dead people and religion does not teach intollerance. You talk intollerance and since you don't go to church I'd be interested in where you learned it.
For the record, I am liberal Christian and very tolerant of other people beliefs. I am very fond of the New Testament and understand that the OT also has wisdom and beauty (unless you hate Judaism too, you might want to aknowledge that fact). I believe in trying to help people who need it without question or judgement. I believe the war in Iraq is immoral and that Bush is a sociopath.
I know a lot of people like me. I meet them in church every sunday.

[DeepModem Mom]

6. "Evangelicals" now predominate in so many churches...

in the Protestant denomination my family belongs to, that I have a hard time finding a church in any town that I want to go to. I'm just not comfortable raising my hands in the air when hymns are sung, or with the arm-raisers' narrow interpretation of faith. A friend, in my denomination, no longer goes to church because she feels it's become unacceptable just to go to her church -- there's pressure to be involved in a way she doesn't wish to be.

I think the evangelicals and the fundamentalists, allied with the right, are trying to take over American churches, just as they want to take over our other national institutions: schools and colleges, labor unions, the media, etc. Many of my childrens' friends and classmates, especially those from small towns and rural areas, do not realize that churches exist that are not fundamentalist -- churches that, indeed, reflect scholarship and a social conscience in their beliefs and actions. These kids feel that, as educated, thinking people, they should reject all churches and religion.

Maybe this has something to do with why fewer Democratic voters now go to church, enabling the Republicans to trumpet what they think is superior moral ground. Meanwhile, the religious right and their conservative allies enable a government of secrecy and greed, that divides us, brings war and debt, and destroys the environment and young lives in Iraq. And, as always, those among the religious who think their way is the only way wreak havoc everywhere.

[Lars39]

10. Well said, and I agree.

I think there is a concerted effort by the right wing to infiltrate mainstream churches, and to turn them more fundamentalist. It's very subtle.

[bain_sidhe]

13. classic brainwashing technique

Once you get somebody to *act* like they believe something, it strengthens the likelihood that they *will* come to believe it. People don't like cognitive dissonance - acting one way and believing aother way, and will take steps to bring their action into line with their beliefs - by either changing the action (as you did, by not going to that church) or changing the belief. Yes, waving arms and such is a very small action, but it all works toward strengthening the reception/acceptance of what these fundies "preach" in their sermons.

[okieinpain]

48. i agree also

.

[annak110]

7. Which religion?

Bahá'i, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, Shinto, New Age, Half of those possessed of the religion called Christianity are not likely to vote Republican, the other half appear to be bound and determined to make this country a brutal and feudal theocracy. These last are the ones who will vote Republican.

[cap]

8. somebody has got to take down Bush personally...

somebody like Lehane needs to do a down and dirty on Bush's character. We can split the conservative vote if we can show Bush's character for what it is. A lot of people are voting for Bush because he is a nice family values man.

If a man is to talk about values such as freedom, should he not live up to them? Bush's grandfather, Prescott, was an investor in Auschwitz. Bush's father employed ex-Nazis in his campaign staff. Bush Jr. worked on his dad's campaigns with those staff.

Honesty counts. Bush had four abortions as a young man and did his share of drugging and drinking. Now let's give people their due and let them "reform". Fine. Now why is it necessary to have a pack of lawyers running around and initmidating anybody who discusses those "wild" years? Why can't we discuss Bush's community service? Why can't poor minorities with drug problems get the same type of sentence?

Got to show that his morality standards have to be the same as ours.

Bush, the best morality money can buy.

[MasonJar]

11. Excuse me, but

that is the most absurd poll I've seen. Why wwould they even run such a stupid poll. Obviously, Dems and Pugs go to church. Most are very nice people and would welcome you to their church. My Episcopal church is extremely welcoming of everyone; rich and poor commune together there. The parishioners do a lot of good on a daily basis, not just at Christmas and Easter. We give out clothes for men and women to apply for jobs, as well as gloves, etc. We give out approximately 300 food baskets every week, we give books to the Aids victims in our community, etc. Please do not put down all religions because some are misguided.

[wildmanj]

14. giving

if churches are to be in the business of helping the poor, that is an honorable position but the question i would ask--Why not WORKFARE instead of WELFARE---there really is no such thing as a free lunch and if one is hungry they should be willing to work for that meal unless physically disabled---FIRST WORK THEN EAT

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. That was Paul who said that, not Jesus

and Paul was referring to members of Christian communities who freeload off everyone else in their small group.

Jesus, on the other hand, placed no conditions on generosity. He said "I was hungry and you fed me," not "I was hungry and you made me wash dishes for my meal."

[Gman]

23. Being Republican is contrary to being a Christian

Excellent point.

Everything about Republicans is diametrically opposed to being a Christian. I think you just demonstrated another example.

[bloom]

42. It would be interesting to me to see

a poll/quiz that revealed if there is a link between Republicans and what Paul said and a link between Democrats and what Jesus said.

I think THAT would be revealing.

[Skittles]

49. you can do all that without religion you know

cut out the middleman

[CBHagman]

16. What's with the endless focus on Bush's "faith"?

I just picked up The Hill newspaper, and there was yet another article (by some sleazoid Republican pollster, of course) on how the godless, valueless Democrats are going to be beaten by the godly Republicans. Oh, PLEASE. Don't these people remember the verse "You cannot serve God and Mammon"? Guess which one is served by Ralph Reed, George W. Bush, and especially Dick Cheney.

Besides, when the buildup to the Iraq war was going on, Bush deigned to see the Vatican representative (the Vatican opposed the war) but kept the door shut to the National Council of Churches AND the Congressional Black Caucus, who are hardly unbelieving types.

"By their fruits shall ye know them."

[IndianaGreen]

17. Bush is the Anti-Christ

and as the Son of Satan, Bush loves religion. Remember that according to Christian belief, Satan wants to replace God, not abolish religion.

I don't believe in any of that nonsense, but it is important to understand the trappings of that theology.

[Tinoire]

21. LMAO! You've been hanging around me too long IG

I don't believe in any of that nonsense, but it is important to understand the trappings of that theology.

It is, it's damn important but I'm glad to know you've been paying attention ;)

And yes, it is important to at least understand what 60 million crazed Christian fundamentalists believe. Personally, I don't believe Bush is the Anti-Christ. I don't think it doesn't quite fits yet... Think he is the Beast heralding the arrival of the Anti-Christ who, per my own non-theological belief, does not have to be a human being- that's what all that Isaiah quoting on the aircraft carrier a few months ago was. The verse he choose was the same one used to announce Christ's birth.

Of course, I'on only confusing the issue now by giving you a mainstream religious interpretation of what's going on. The danger is that Christian fundies think that Bush has a special line to God, that God put him in power to make our nation a Christian one again to ward off God's wrath from the sins of Soddom, Gommorha and not blindly supporting Israel.

You go girl! :hi:

[alittlelark]

41. Bush is sadistic

of that I am certain.

I was raised with a fundie wacko mom (but fortunately a very sane dad). Mom was convinced that the rapture would come so she would never die...when I spoke to her on 9/11/01 she was ecstatic. She was sure it heralded the end of times. I was emotional and looked up Bush and antichrist on google. The first entry was

http://mirrors.meepzorp.com/geocities.com/george-bush-antichrist/

But it wasn't a mirror. It's extremely hard to find anymore. I'm not really religious, but the site creeps me out (even though it's tounge in cheek with the photos). You have to really search to find sites such as this one anymore. They all say otherwise but use the right key words.

[annak110]

29. That part about the Vatican opposing the illegal attack on Iraq...

I'll always believe that that feeble peep was a fail safe just in case someone brought it up later (if there is to be a "later")-remember the ongoing "controversy" about the vatican in WWII?

[rustydog]

18. Your speling is off. You put an "n" in religious lies.

:bounce:

[loudnclear]

20. The Jesus I know would not vote Republican

And I stand by His own words in the Bible.

[Tinoire]

22. Yeah but tell that to 60 million fundies who would rather listen to Pat

Robertson and Ralph Reed's very own special blend of hate than to crack open the Bible and read it from A-Z in historical and theological context.

[ikojo]

24. Most of my close Jewish friends attend services daily

and they are voting DEMOCRATIC. They are committed Jews who take seriously the verse in Deuteronomy that says: Justice, Justice shalt thou persue.

Voting Republican is not just.
It is NOT a mitzvah.

[salinen]

25. Theocratic rule,

fascism, totalitarianism, or dictatorship, take your picks from this inspiring lists of choices for our lives if * wins in '04.

[Voltaire99]

40. Our future depends less on whether Bush wins...

...than on what is done culturally to blunt the forces of extremism that fuel the popularity of Bush and his policies.

The election, for instance, of a Democrat like Dean will not suddenly pacify the other half of the nation. Nor will it make the Congress over in his image.

The qualities that Bush embodies are buried deep in the 21st century American mind. We can not vote them out of existence! We can only fight the culture wars - with intelligence, reason, passion, and persistence.

In all likelihood following a Bush reelection, we won't suffer overt fascism, totalitarianism or dicatorship at all but instead see more of what we have now - a kind of Huxleyesque dumbing down where the public lingers in a state-controlled stupor, disinclined to read, not terribly bothered by nuance, mainly just desperately chasing its next commercial and narcotic fix. That's one very effective means of ruling and ruining people. And oh, is it profitable.

[Philostopher]

26. I can tell you where the Republicans come from.

They come from the Protestant bible colleges. There's one in Cincinnati -- used to be called Cincinnati Bible Seminary, now I think it's Cincinnati Christian College or something. I was attending my parents' church (a northern sect Church of Christ, which is to say it was largely the same as the southern version only not non-instrumental) when I was about to graduate from high school, and since the church my parents and I attended offered some financial support for people who attended bible colleges, I felt compelled (by my parents) to go take a tour of the place, even though I knew I didn't want to go to school there.

This denomination, by the way, worshiped (besides God) such loving Christian icons as James Dobson, the guy who got into a battle of wills with his dog over where it would sleep in the house at night (Dobson vs. Dachshund) and beat it with a belt because it wanted to sleep on the toilet lid instead of wherever Dobson had dictated was its sleeping place. The thought of how he must have treated his children when they didn't mind makes me a little nauseated.

My visit to Cincinnati Bible College was circa 1981 or 1982, and my folks were dyed-in-the-wool Dems who also attended the church and dictated that I, too, would attend as long as I lived under their roof. That's why the fact that every clean-cut preppie college student who talked about the 'wonderful leadership of our Christian country' to us high school kids set off my bullshit detectors. You see, in their minds, Ronald Reagan was 'wonderful leadership of our Christian country' whereas in my house, he was a warmongering, divorced former actor who had no business running the country and was likely a puppet for special interests and corporations. But if you pound that shit into somebody's head long enough, they'll start to actually believe it, and clearly all the future preachers of America at CBC at the time believed exactly that.

That became the Republican credo, during the Reagan Administration -- say it often enough, it becomes a 'received truth' whether there's any legitimacy to it or not. It also became the credo of places like Cincinnati Bible College, and probably others.

Most of them, it seemed, started parroting Republican talking points in the mid-eighties, with the directly political references stripped out. Even people who want to be told what to do can make an inference -- most of them aren't stupid, just scared. The inference is clear -- conservative politicians are Godly, liberal ones are demon worshipers.

[young_at_heart]

30. You said the magic words......"during the Reagan Administration"

Before Reagan the Republicans were not religious fanatics. People like Ralph Reed have succeeded in tying Christianity and the GOP together. If you are a "good" Christian you automatically are a Republican....(this was in my newspaper's letters recently).

[Philostopher]

34. Exactly -- they learned how to market their ideology.

The marketing experts came out of the denominational bible colleges. It started out, I think, as simply a way to keep the coffers full for legitimate religious projects, but once politicians realized they could create a synergy with religious institutions, this whole phenomenon was born.

By the way, my mother is the only one who attends this church regularly anymore, and even she usually finds a reason not to sit through the sermons. My brother attends a more liberal, non-denominational church, my sister attends Mom's church only on holidays, and I'm agnostic and no longer attend any church. My dad died in 1996, but he'd stopped attending regularly long before he became ill. Dad and my brother got sick of the same things I did -- that veiled insinuation that if we were liberal, we weren't 'really Christian.'

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. The glorification of Ronald Reagan was one of the most

puzzling part of the fundamentalist takeover of the Republican Party.

This is a man who had no known religious affiliation and never set foot inside a church during his two terms, except possibly for weddings or funerals.

And in 1980, he defeated a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher.

Go figure.

[booksenkatz]

28. Church has NOTHING to do with spirituality

I was raised a Methodist, but the Christian dogma never made any sense to me, much as I tried to understand it. I abandoned organized religion while I was in college. These days I'd probably be classified as an agnostic, although I consider myself very spiritual, and I even sort of "pray" in my own way, just in case something is out there listening...? OK, I'm an agnostic who is still searching. So it pisses me off that apparently you can ONLY be considered a spiritual person if you show up in church! The stuff that goes on in church is what drove me away ~ I don't need a middleman to interpret for me during my search for God. How dare these pollsters tell me that because I don't attend church that I have no interest in spiritual pursuits or doing good works!

I'd like to add that my husband and his entire family are staunch atheists and are the kindest, most giving, generous souls I've ever met. Apparently they are "bad" because they do not vote Republican, is that what I am to glean from this insipid poll?

:mad:

[coralrf]

51. Shame on you ...

for having your eyes open. Yup we are all bad.

"This I know for the GOP tells me so."

I don’t think it hard to understand what this poll illustrates, in fact I do see why all the fuss. Sure anybody dumb enough to think Jesus wants him to vote GOP is also dumb enough to do it. The poll illustrates as all do that the more independent a thinker you are the more likely you are to shun Bush, conservatism and ideology.

The world does not change much.

[Kat45]

31. I go to church every week, and I WILL vote Democratic.

As will a number of other people in my church. Almost all of the political discussion I get into with like-minded people occur at church. As a matter of fact, my pastor shares my strong aversion to bush such that he cannot stand to watch him on TV or listen to him speak. He just reads about it later, as do I.

[0007]

35. Please view this short video and pass it on to your church members,

http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html

'Tis a very powerful video and Why voting will be important to every democrat this election.

[schultzee]

32. Not news. Bu$h has courted the crazy fundanentalists.

[Emillereid]

36. This poll is picking up on a significant split in the American psych --

but this religiosity is only a symptom of the tendency of the South and other repuke areas to breed people who suffer authoritarian personalities.

In general the authoritarian personality is characterized by submissiveness to authority, intolerance of people who are different, conformity, insecurity, anxiety about ambivalence, rigid stereotypical thinking, superstition. Just like Bush the world is conceived in absolute terms: good vs evil; us vs. them; black and white. The war on terror is a perfect way to control these people who see people outside their narrow group as the frightening other.Adorno named this personality disorder years ago in an attempt to explain the Good Germans who went along with the Nazis.

I've said it before and this poll confirms it, America is deeply divided culturally. In fact I think Democrats shouldn't waste their time or money on the south next year ( except Florida) -- as long as these people are terrified by terrorists, they can't think right. They won't be able to see past Rove's machinations to realize they are voting against their own self interests. These are indeed "Good Americans."

America is a big piece of real estate. We should simply divide the place up and divorce. We can take the Northeast, northern states and the West coast and the fascists can have the rest. I'm tired of fighting them. If they want to live in a fascist, authoritarian country, with no public infrastructure or social welfare programs or basic civil rights -- so be it. I just don't want them to impose that crap on the rest of us that want to live in a free, democratic country. Oddly enough such a country would more likely fit my 'christian sensibilities.'

[Kinkistyle]

45. We'd get invaded and genocided in two days.

Remember, THEY are the Spartans, we are the Athenians :)

[tom_paine]

52. Totalitarian Societies like Imperial Amerika cannot stand to have freedom

next door to them.

Look at what Russia and Germany did to Poland in the 1790s, when they tried to follow the lead of the Founding Fathers.

Even ignoring the fact that the Busheviks are just ITCHING to "General Sherman" us, they could never tolerate the presence of freedom next door.

[pasadenaboy]

37. I attend church almost every weekend

and wouldn't vote Republican if my life depended on it. I would like to see a breakdown by state.

[xchrom]

46. where ever there are peace marches

i see church groups, priests, nuns, etc. weren't any of those people polled.
until recently i've always attended church regularly and i've always voted as liberal as i possibly could -- no ones ever asked me. every one i've gone to church with{that's a few hundred people} seem very liberal to me -- and the ones i speak to vote liberal.

[DemBones DemBones]

53. Important: that 63% who vote GOP attend MORE than once a week.

Look at the graphic -- this info is right under the drawing of a church on the upper left.

The information is also in the article (bolding added for emphasis):

". . . Voters who attended religious services more than once a week went for Bush by a margin of nearly 2-1. Those who never went to services went for Gore by the same margin."

It seems clear to me that the Pew Survey defines people as "attending regularly" only if they attend MORE than once a week. Say what?

Who goes to church MORE than once a week? Southern Baptists and other more conservative churches have regular Wednesday night services. People who are conservative in their religious beliefs are often conservative in their political beliefs, though it's important to remember that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are Southern Baptists.

This survey is really comparing people who go to church MORE than once a week to people who attend seldom or never. . . Apparently leaving out all the people who go once a week!

[Mari333]

54. Today while I was driving, some asshole

beeped at me and shoved an ABORTION IS MURDER sign on his window to make sure I saw it...for what fucking reason?? I have anti war stickers on my car ....what a moron. Every day I have to deal with these morons.