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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:27 AM
Original message
AP: Chavez: Assassination Attempt Foiled
Chavez: Assassination Attempt Foiled

By NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON
The Associated Press
Saturday, September 30, 2006; 10:09 PM

CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez, who has repeatedly
spoken of various plots on his life, said Saturday a sniper with a
long-range gun and a motorcycle to escape on had planned to shoot
him as he exited a helicopter on a recent trip to western Venezuela.

The incident allegedly occurred when Chavez visited the western oil-
producing region of Zulia in June to inaugurate a refurbished fertilizer
plant. Chavez appeared to link the plot to his main rival in upcoming
presidential elections, Gov. Manuel Rosales of Zulia state, claiming
that he is in constant danger from opponents seeking to get rid of him.

"The plan didn't work out for them _ God is always present over there.
But those responsible left for Colombia, and by the way, they were
from the Zulia police," he said.

He did not elaborate further on the alleged plot.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/30/AR2006093001317.html
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh come on Chavez, thats one of the oldest tricks in the book!
Edited on Sun Oct-01-06 12:30 AM by Endangered Specie
Next time have some cronies set a gov't building on fire and blame it on your opponents.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. how dare you doubt Chavez
:sarcasm:
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Sarcasm or whatever, Hugo Chavez is not long for this Earth.
If there aren't a few teams out there, hot after him, I would be astonished.

And the trigger will be a Countryman. And he will be apprehended or killed on the spot.

I may be sorely mistaken, but I would give Mr Chavez a month or two, tops.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
44. people like him last
look at Castro
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Anybody see Cheney lately?
:tinfoilhat: :popcorn: :rofl:
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gkdmaths Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. oh!?!
:spray:
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. Or Poppy Bush? Maybe he's come out of retirement; he did a
heckuvajob at Dealey Plaza, after all.:tinfoilhat:
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maseman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
51. I didn't know Pat Robertson could ride a motorcycle
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Heresy!!! And a damned good one
Given his polemics, any thinking person would be skeptical
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Phrogman Donating Member (940 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Kinda like the guy throwing a hand grenade at chimpo!
That story smelled bad to begin with.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Exactly. Or fly some planes into buildings just to start a bunch of wars!
Edited on Sun Oct-01-06 12:56 AM by mhatrw
Oldest trick in the book!
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Maybe he has the WMD's ? n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder if the CIA has an alibi.
nt
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. honestly why would the Bushies do something like this
Edited on Sun Oct-01-06 12:42 AM by dwickham
who would come immediately to mind as the perpetrators

no one has ever accused them of being overly bright but come on



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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Sadam wanted to kill my daddy, Fuck Sadam We're going to take him out
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. So would they suddenly start to worry about world opinion?
They haven't seemed to care about that yet.

Bush rehired some of the same seedy characters on his staff as under Bush I and Reagan, workers in the dark-tricks-on-Latin-America department.


Perhaps Chavez has gotten a little paranoid, but who wouldn't be?

Do you also doubt whether the 2 day coup that occurred in 2002 had US involvement? One thing I've noticed about the Bush administration is that they don't give up -- if they try and fail at something, they always come back for another round.

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. what world opinion
first of all, the Bushies aren't smart enough to cover their tracks on most thing

second, isn't trying to kill someone like Chavez illegal-if we can't get him impeached over Iraq, this would certainly do it

the Bushies are all about staying in power
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Of course they won't use an American to pull the trigger, they never do
Perhaps I've been misinformed by William Blum (i.e., "Rogue State") or Noam Chomsky but I think that there have been more than a few world leaders assassinated or toppled based on US directives.

Never in a million years would there be an impeachment over assassination of a foreign, leftist leader. Within the US, the primary reaction would be 'who cares?' or 'he was a communist, anyway..cheaper than a war'.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
35. His political opponents have strong connections
to the Knights of Malta. They kill people that get in their way.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
46. If it were the cia
he would be dead. During the last coup he would have been put on his knees and shot in the brain.

This is ranting from a nutjob.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. What is real and what is not.?. What is propaganda & what is not.?..
Who is "good" and who is not?

I guess we'll be getting the official "score card" shortly...:eyes:





Of course, some never question what they are told....
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. I dont doubt it. I would rather him not become another JFK. Be careful. nt
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. WHY would anyone want to kill him? It's not as though he called

a world leader 'the devil'.


WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4th largest oil reserves in the world!

Uh, why would we try to assassinate him?



Answer: Almost 1/4 of Americans now have Latin American blood - we cannot have a war for Venezuela's OIL w/o a MASS DISASTER here at home.

The BFEE has to kill him w/o a trail.




I still have a hard time believing this is the USA that my forefathers fought for against the British Corporations, then the Govt.(Current US govt).



How the hell did we let it come to this????/
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. .
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. What is Kerik doing in Guyana?

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. I've been following Chavez's statements and developments in
Venezuela for a long time now, in our own press, at www.venezuelanalysis.com, and in foreign press (in translation--can't read Spanish very well), and I have never known him to lie. Of course, any politician is capable of it, but I just haven't seen any evidence of deceitfulness. On the other hand, the Bush Junta cheered on (and probably instigated) the violent military coup against Chavez and against constitutional government in Venezuela, probably sent a Bush CIA team into the country to engineer a jail break for the only two perps (the main ones) who had been prosecuted, is harboring the perp of the Cubana Airlines bombing (in which Venezuelans were killed--Venezuela has asked for his extradition; the Bush Junta refuses), has used OUR money to fund the political opposition in Venezuela (the rich oil elite--no doubt including Rosales), against Venezuelan law, including the recall election against Chavez (which Chavez handily won, in the most monitored election in history), constantly badmouths Chavez and calls him a dictator for no cause (he is not a dictator), and even sicked Pat Robertson on him with the public suggestion that he be assassinated.

So, COULD this be true--is it plausible? It certainly is plausible. The Bushites and their fascist colluders in Venezuela are perfectly capable of it, and they have already repeatedly tried to remove Chavez by violence and by other dubious means. The problem for them is that he remains immensely popular in Venezuela, and all over South America, and South America is undergoing a vast, peaceful, democratic, leftist (majorityist) revolution--with leftist governments elected in Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Venezuela and Bolivia, and soon in Ecuador (and also Peru in the not too distant future), and these nations are showing a new resistance to US and also World Bank/IMF interference, and new solidarity on regional self-determination. In Chile, for instance, they just elected their first woman president, Michele Batchelet, who was tortured by the US-backed dictator Pinochet. She in turn has resisted Condi Rice's efforts to strong-arm South American governments, Chile included, to oppose Venezuela's proposed seat on the UN Security Council next year. (Many South American countries are supporting that bid, in defiance of the Bushites--and have also given Venezuela full membership in Mercosur, the South American group working on trade, mutual projects of benefit to all, and political cooperation.) And can you imagine what Michele Batchelet thinks of the Bush Junta and its torture policy?

I've no doubt that the Venezuelan political opposition would try to assassinate Chavez. They've already tried violence (and were met with tens of thousands of Venezuelans pouring into the streets and demanding return of their elected president and constitutional government). And Chavez's opposition is even stupider than the Bushites. (In fact, their stupidity and their advocacy for a small minority (inability to propose anything of interest to the majority) is a major political problem in Venezuela. I would prefer to see Chavez have a competent opposition. I see no signs that he is dictatorial, but anyone with his popularity can be tempted.) But I actually think that the Bushites might hesitate to kill him, for the reasons I've set out above. The problem for global corporate predators in South America is by no means limited to Chavez. They are faced with a huge and unstoppable revolution throughout the continent, that would survive Chavez's assassination and would be strengthened by it. It's what the new South America expects from the Bushites (with also a long history of violent US intervention, and exploitation, which they all know very well). I mean, who knows what these criminal bastards might do? But their motive is greed (almost always), and assassinating Chavez would increase the resistance to US business interests throughout the continent--and that might stop them (if they have any smarts at all). There are no competent politicians opposing Chavez, but there ARE a lot of very bright people in his government, and a further result might be a cut-off of Venezuelan oil to the US (if the Bushites killed their president). I think the Chavez government would also survive his death and be strengthened. They now have markets in China and other places--and other South American countries would come to their aid. It might even result in a South American boycott of the US.

Most people know what a wreck the Bushites have made of Iraq. What they may not know is that Bush has "lost" South America. The chaos in Iraq, in my opinion, is not incompetence. It is deliberate. In that sphere, they are not stupid, as to their own purposes (which do not coincide with the interests of the American people OR the Iraqis--or Israel's, for that matter). But South America is another story. There has been a lot of hard work done in South America on democracy issues, especially transparent elections--and we see the result in all these leftist (majorityist) governments. I think it's kind of funny that now--NOW!--Diebold is down in Brazil, trying to sell electronic voting, using TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY software, owned and controlled by Bushites. They've got to stop democracy from happening in South America! But it's way too late. The Bushites' obsession with Mideast oil, and the effort they've had to put out to control the US population, have resulted in their utter failure to keep South American fascists in power to see to US corporate interests there--and the whole place has turned "blue." They were stupidly obsessed with Chavez, and lost control of the whole continent.

Chavez has also been smart to be very vocal about the threats against him, and to never let the world forget what the Bushites and the fascist opposition have already tried to do. This makes it certain that reaction to the Bush Junta killing Chavez (directly or by proxy) would be far worse for US (corporate) interests than his continuance in power.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Hmm..... reminds me of Cary Grant in North by.....
>>>>Chavez has also been smart to be very vocal about the threats against him, and to never let the world forget what the Bushites and the fascist opposition have already tried to do.>>>>

Northwest. The auction scene where he makes a spectacle of himself to keep from being rubbed out.


Excellent post, BTW.
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mikita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. GREAT, informed post....
I just printed it out...

One of my favorite documentaries is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", filmed by an Irish crew who was actually in Venezuela during the failed coup. It is a beautiful tribute to a leader who can actually RELATE to people. It can't be faked....

You also hit on another point that I think many overlook, and that is that IRAQ is not accidental chaos. There is no "failure" in IRAQ, as it is going swimmingly well if you look at all the money begin made by the corporates. That was always the plan, as always is in wars.

I would love to hear what you think about Panama currently.

Thanks.

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ldf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
41. excellent post, PP
but we REALLY need to work on your "knee jerk" responses.

reasoned posts are frowned on around here.

:thumbsup:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
54. I was trying to think of some smart reply back, like, "My only kneejerk...
response is to.......". But I couldn't think of anything I have a kneejerk response to. I probably do have my blind spots, stupidities and robotic reactions, but, of course, I can't see them. I used to think I had a kneejerk response to First Amendment issues--which I was proud of. My only absolute. Then I got to thinking about the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and rightwing preachers. Would I shut them down if I could? You bet. --although it's not so much their fascist views, warmongering, brainwashing and shilling for the Bush Junta that so much offends me, as their inordinate money power to shovel their tripe down the throats of everyone, and make the good, progressive American majority, that believes in justice, lawfulness, truth and good government, feel powerless before the rightwing MINORITY. So I wouldn't deny them free speech. I would just take their trumpets away and bust their monopolies.

I'm pretty kneejerky on free speech.

How to avoid being kneejerky (except where it is warranted, as with free speech)? Don't watch TV news (unless you have a very strong critical mind). Seek a lot of differing sources of info. When you are exposed to an opinion or assertion of any kind, let it bounce around in your mind freely for a time; consider it from all angles. To be a good critical thinker (not kneejerk), you don't need to be ever uncertain about what you think, or what is true, but you do need the ability to keep an open mind--and thus your opinions will be better informed, and more solid--once you are able to form them--than those of others, who think only superficially, or depend on others for their views.

That's the theory anyway. Keep an open mind but not forever. (And sometimes it doesn't take long to come to your own conclusions--especially if you are experienced at critical thinking, and stay well informed.)

Take this meme of the corporate news monopolies that Chavez is "increasingly authoritarian." My first hit on Chavez (based on what information I had) was that he was not. But I know that ANY politician can get a big head, be tempted by power, etc. So--even though I had suspicions about this oft-repeated phrase (which was never attributed to anyone--it always is preceded by "his critics say....", and was being echoed by all of these US news monopolies), I sought out all articles on potential authoritarianism by Chavez.

Can people in Venezuela criticize him without retaliation? Yes, the media there vilify him freely, on a 24/7 basis. No repression of the press. What about this provision in the Venezuelan Constitution that makes it unlawful to slander the government? Never been used. Yeah, it's there--but so are a lot of bad US laws. The V. Constitution was written by many hands. It has this one questionable provision. But Chavez has never invoked it--even when the corporate media in Venezuela openly supported the military coup!

Was he elected in free and fair elections? Yes (unanimous opinion of the OAS, the Carter Center and EU groups, who heavily monitored Venezuela elections). What had he done about the violent military coup against him in 2002? He forgave most of the participants (whom he personally determined had been misinformed), and prosecuted only two perps (who were in jail--no death penalty in Venezuela--until someone, likely Bush CIA--recently engineered a jail break). Do people there genuinely like him? Yes, he's hugely popular in Venezuela, and has good relations with other So. American governments. They recently made Venezuela a full member of Mercosur (regional trade and cooperation group), and South America will be supporting Venezuela's bid for a seat on the UN Security Council next year.

Is he an extremist? Not at all. He's pursuing a mixed, capitalist/socialist economy, with a strong social justice component (much like many European countries). His government recently stopped a proposal by the leftist mayor of Caracas for confiscating two country clubs/golf courses for low cost housing, because the V. Constitution protects private property!

After extensive reading (and also discussions with someone who had visited Venezuela recently), no evidence of authoritarianism. Zero. Zilch. Where did this meme come from? I tracked it to a rightwing Catholic Cardinal, who spent his career in the Vatican finance office, and was ousted from that office in the fascist banking scandals of the 1980s. An old guy who regularly rants against Chavez, to the embarrassment of the more moderate and liberal elements of the Venezuelan church. Is this who AP, the NYT, the WSJ, WaPo and all the rest are consulting about Hugo Chavez? A corrupt, old Opus Dei Cardinal? Looks like it. He's the one who said it--that Chavez is "increasingly authoritarian"--but they never quote the source. And they probably also talked to John (death squad) Negroponte.

So now--because I kept an open mind (--didn't have a kneejerk response that all leftists are good)--I have plenty of ammunition to argue with those who call Chavez a "dictator." I was willing to believe otherwise, if there was sufficient evidence. There was NO evidence. None! Chavez likes the spotlight, and is a bit full of himself (what politician isn't?). But that's the worst that can be said of him. And that's he's too moderate. (Really--the vast poor population of Caracas are living in shacks and other miserable dwellings that regularly slide off the hills in heavy rains. Confiscation of golf courses--used by the rich--on a emergency basis seems quite reasonable to me.)

And any politician who reads Noam Chomsky and recommends his books to the UN can't be all bad. Turns out Chavez is not bad at all. He's a pretty decent guy, and may be a great leader, on the order of Simon Bolivar himself.

I remember doing my little open-mindedness exercise on Bush's assertion that we are in a "war on terror" and need to torture and kill Muslims who are out to destroy us, and even need to sacrifice our Constitution to that end, because we are a superior civilization and must triumph, for the sake of humanity. Americans have become soft, too peaceable and vulnerable. We need to wake up to the danger to western civilization, and focus our energies on defending it. Etc. Etc. (Bush never speaks this articulately, but this is what he is trying to say.) I let all this have some air in my mind every once in a while. Of course, it falls apart very quickly. (Really, it dissolved into goo back when Bush told Americans that what they could do about 9/11 was to go back to shopping.) But it does help your critical thinking skills, to be able to look at all sides--and it also clues you into how demagogues hook people--into what the hooks are. One hook into me was the inferior status of women in Muslim societies. But, with a larger view--and more wide ranging information--I begin to see WHY what appear to me to be repressive societies are so popular among the Muslim masses. My first clue was the Shia community reaction to the brutal US invasion. In the midst of all the chaos and looting, it was the poor Shia communities that functioned the best. They protected hospitals from looters; got water to people; patrolled the streets; prevented hooliganism and rape. Community cohesion. Brotherly cooperation.

These are societies that have been under severe attack by the west for some time, and exploited and impoverished by both the west and by the rich sultans who collude with the west. Islam is the glue that holds the Muslim poor together in these severe circumstances. Iran, for instance--the most potentially progressive country among Israel's neighbors--was thrown back into a sort of medieval refuge, under the mullahs, only AFTER the US/Israel had destroyed Iran's democracy in 1954 and inflicted the Iranian people with 25 years of torture and oppression under the horrible Shah of Iran. To THEM, fundamentalist Islam and the mullahs are PROGRESS--an essential step back toward high civilization (for which the Iranians--Persians--are famous, historically.) They need cohesion now; decent government (as opposed to western impositions, torture and exploitation); fairness, equity; community strength; family ties and loyalties; education, and all the fundamental things needed to REBUILD a civilization, and put it on the long road back to higher accomplishments. There are no Saudi princes (or anything comparable) in Iran. It is a MUCH fairer society than Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE--the Bush Junta's allies! Its government is much more reflective of the will of the people than any of the Bushites' Arab allies. And if the truth be known, it has a lot more in common with Israel than either side would be willing to admit. (Lord, I wish they could admit it--find the common ground--and cooperate in throwing the Bush Cartel out of the Middle East. Wouldn't that be something!*)

-----

*(I am a kneejerk defender of Israel's potentially great contribution to a cultural renaissance in the Middle East, and thus of Israel's survival. I am against anything that endangers that potential--including the Bushites' ill intentions, which are a great danger to Israel, and the stupidities and militarism of the rightwing Israeli government, which has ended up with the greatly despised Bush Junta as their only ally. May Allah protect Israel! I mean that sincerely, with no irony. The Muslim poor need Israel's more enlightened views about democracy and women's rights. Israel needs to be at peace with its neighbors, and needs to act on Judaism's requirement of social justice, and begin considering the welfare of all Middle Eastern peoples in its policies and choice of allies. Well, I guess it's a combination of kneejerk defender of Israel--or of Israel's potential--and open-mindedness about the path to Israel's survival.)

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. PP, your posts - full of such encouraging facts - always give me hope.
Thank you for taking the time to post.

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. Was somebody wondering where Cheney's been hiding out?
Edited on Sun Oct-01-06 03:25 AM by Jack Rabbit
You don't suppose . . . .
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. Chavez says they were from the Zulia police. Oil province.
I guess he's made a lot of enemies in the oil industry so this is highly believable.

But those responsible left for Colombia, and by the way, they were from the Zulia police," he said.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
22. John (Nun Rapist) Negroponte is out to kill him
He is upseting big John's corporate handlers

And therefore has to die.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'm glad he's ok. US money is probably involved somewhow.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. "Sniper with a long range gun"?
"Sniper with a long range gun"? I wonder if it's one of those Barret sniper rifles the NRA gun pimps say has/will never be used? One of these days, one of these Barret's will kill one of our most crucial people.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Sounds plausible.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. Chavez will be a hard target
given the fact that he has been getting extensive advise and assistance from his Cuban allies, who are well-experienced in protecting their own Cuban president from his numerous assassination attempts over the approx. 50 years that Fidel Castro has been in their(US gov. ) target sights.

Russian Dragunovs could be used, they are more easier to get and less incriminating if the sniper was caught. Like narcotics, there are no real borders in the trafficking of arms.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. Il live in Murfreesboro, TN where Barret .50 cal's are made
They are not hard to get. If you have $3-5000, that is.
They are SEMI-automatic and therefore perfectly legal.
They sell in every gun shop around here.

The problem is finding a place to target practice with them.

They are accurate at over a mile, even two or three
if you have a powerful enough scope to see to aim.

Not many places big enough to challenge your marksmanship around here.

You need a big place like some of those Texas mega ranches or in the southwet desert.

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. People
get all pissy about these things. The 308, 300 win mag and 338 lapua on a good rifle platform are make up the vast majority of rifles used by designated marksmen. shooting someone with a rifle is much harder than say, paying off the military to do the job.

People do not understand that you can not just pick up a rifle and become a marksmen any more than you can pick up a wrench and become a mechanic.

The 50 will kill you but so will a 22. dead is dead.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
48. To heavy, better tools
The 308 or 338 lap is the plenty capable of killing is easily man portable.

Basically a bolt action hunting rifle tuned up with good loads and good optics are the gold standard.

Kills beyond 1000 m are normal. This it the tool of the trade. Both can put rounds under a coffee cup at 1000m. That is plenty enough accuracy and energy to punch a hole in a persons head.

It is difficult to hit a person at 600m. Much easier to plant a block of explosives somewhere and blow them up. Or pay their military to kill him.

This guy will die at the hands of his military.


the barrets is a magnet for people who know nothing about weapons to get all wound up over.

If you have access to a range, take any rifle and a helium balloon with a 6 foot string, tie it up at 100 yards and see if you can hit it. If you can rig it so it moves left to right. You get the picture.
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allisonthegreat Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
53. makes sense to me about US money
Seeing wither he's a hero for some and an enemy of the state for the rest. I am all behind him actually. At least he is showing an act of human kindness.
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Riddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
27. Maybe it wasn't Bush but Pat Robertson, who finally went (farther)
over the edge.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. that's what i was thinking -- pat robertson.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
34. Mr. Danger?
Edited on Sun Oct-01-06 08:33 AM by SpiralHawk
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
36. I dunno
This happened in the state where the governor happens to be his strongest opponent in the upcoming elections. If they wanted to kill him, wouldn't they pick someplace else? This isn't very good PR for the other candidate.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
37. Foiled or tin foiled.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
39. He should arrest and torture everybody in Zulia!
Because they're fucking Bush supporters.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
57. tsk, not all countries believe in our American version of freedom
sometimes they believe in due process and rule of law, the poor backward heathens... :sarcasm:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
40. Doesn't anyone remember Colombia's President Uribe admitting
Edited on Sun Oct-01-06 09:50 AM by Judi Lynn
he had become aware of an assassination plot inside Colombia to kill Chavez? I'm certain it was discussed at D.U. Here's a small look back:
Plot to overthrow Chavez: Alvaro Uribe

~snip~
Ex Venezuelan militaries had planned to overthrow President Hugo Chavez from Colombian territory revealed Colombian President Alvaro Uribe. Uribe confirmed that ex Venezuelan military officials met with Colombian military counterparts in a government building in Bogota.

Uribe made these comments during a joint press conference with Chavez after the meeting held in the northern Colombian city of Santa Marta to commemorate the death of Bolivar 175 years ago “Instead of making excuses and instead of deception, I am assuming my responsibility before President Chavez”, Uribe said.

He explained that last November during the last bilateral meeting in Venezuela, Chavez handed him a series of documents concerning presumed conspiracies taking place on Colombian soil, which were subsequently examined by the authorities in Bogota.

Intelligence at work

Chavez and Uribe celebrated the 175th Anniversary of Simon Bolivar’s death
The ex Venezuelan military officials held their meeting in a building where some Colombian military officials live.
“After carrying out intelligence work everyone has been advised that the Colombian government will not allow anyone to conspire against a democratic government and even less so against a brother country,” stated Uribe.

He added that, “a country like Colombia affected by terrorism cannot allow its territory to be used against the democracies of our peoples. No to terrorism in Venezuela and no to terrorism against Colombia.”

President Uribe did not reveal the names of the Venezuelan military officials who are presumably plotting against Chavez.
(snip/...)

http://www.venezuelasolidarity.org.uk/ven/web/articles/uribe_admits_assan_attempt.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


For anyone who's interested, here's a map showing Zulia in the upper left corner. As you can see it would only take a second to zip into Colombia to hide, out of range of Venezuelan authorities from Caracas.

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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
42. BushCo never could do anything right
It could have been Deadeye Dick Cheney. Does
he know how to ride a motorcycle?






Shown here packing for a recent trip to South America.




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ziggy_luv Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. chavez rocks
he helps his people.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. i agree -- chavez rocks.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
58. Pat Robertson was in western Venezuela!?! (nt)
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