Shivering Alaskans to Hugo Chavez: Keep your oil

[Nutmegger]

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- In Alaska's native villages, the punishing winter cold is already penetrating the walls of the lightly insulated plywood homes, many of the villagers are desperately poor, and heating-oil prices are among the highest in the nation.

And yet a few of the small communities want to refuse free heating oil from Venezuela, on the patriotic principle that no foreigner has the right to call their president "the devil."

The heating oil is being offered by the petroleum company controlled by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, President Bush's nemesis. While scores of Alaska's Eskimo and Indian villages say they have no choice but to accept, others would rather suffer.

"As a citizen of this country, you can have your own opinion of our president and our country. But I don't want a foreigner coming in here and bashing us," said Justine Gunderson, administrator for the tribal council in the Aleut village of Nelson Lagoon. "Even though we're in economically dire straits, it was the right choice to make."

Full article: http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/10/09/alaska.oil.chavez.ap/index.html

[atreides1]

1. Cut off your nose

To spite your face.

Bush isn't worth the effort, this isn't patriotism it's stupidity!!!

[William769]

9. There are two types of "patriotism"

[saigon68]

27. I Hope those ass-wipes like freezing.

It's too bad their kids have to freeze with them.

Oh well, blind faith in the Fuhrer (Oops I mean CHIMPANZEE)


THIS CHIMPANZEE




HAVE FAITH IN HIM MORANS

[VegasWolf]

31. Just pruning the chaff from the human species tree. nt

[damntexdem]

32. Or communities "served" by the rejecting organizations.

But there are plenty of other poor people in cold climates. Hugo certainly doesn't need Alaskans.

[wakeme2008]

2. The way I read this ONE man decided for the whole village

:grr: The Repug way

[BrotherBuzz]

10. Meanwhile, about 150 other villages have embraced Hugo Chavez's offer

The Democratic way.

[krkaufman]

20. Exactly. The headline is exceedingly misleading.

What proportion of the villages and/or population have accepted Citgo's offer?

[Tempest]

15. It wasn't one man/one village, it was two people for ALL villages

It was a decision by two directors of native affairs in Anchorage that made the decision for all villages in Alaska.

The local elders are only following suit not to create problems with the statewide office because they still rely on them for other funding.

[Toots]

35. That is not the way I heard it, four villages out of over 150 refused

the free fuel oil while more than 150 accepted the gift and been damn glad for it.

[John Gauger]

19. That's how I read it

This guy doesn't seem like he is representative of the majority. I also wonder whether he is in need of the relief himself. Probably not. Some guy - not the same color as his constituents, as a opposed to Chavez - has decided that nobody shall benefit from this generosity over a little silly name-calling.

[Vexatious Ape]

3. fools

I'd invite him back to speak any time he wants.

[LisaM]

4. He didn't do that in the US! It was at the United Nations

People seriously need to be educated that the UN is not considered US soil and that people should be able to say what they want when they are there, whether we like it or not.

[rkc3]

5. I wonder if the AP will do a follow up story in late January?

I suspect patriotism won't keep these people warm for too long.

[last1standing]

6. Giggling Chavez to Alaska: Okay.

These "patriots" are idiots as well as cold. The bush* administration has called Chavez tyrant, dictator, thug, evil, crazy, and a hundred other insults. If these Alaskans think that's okay then I say let them enjoy the cold.

[bpeale]

18. no loss

no loss if they freeze their asses off up in the tundra. no one will miss them. someone may be able to use them for an ice cube in a drink next summer though. :spray:

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. Incredible stupidity.

Given that the United States is one of the most powerful nations on earth, and given that the military, diplomatic, political and economic actions of the United States affect the lives of people all over the globe, only a complete and total goddamned MORON could say that only US citizens have any right to criticise an American president.

[Demeter]

22. And We Have So Many Of Them

and with Intelligent Design in the schools, we will create more.

[madinmaryland]

8. Morans!! I don't remember 15 of the 9/11 hijackers being

from Venezuala!!

:grr: Why don't they boycott Saudi oil.

[frylock]

11. that should give the polar bears some sustenance..

what idiots.

[baldguy]

12. Blind obedience is unpatriotic & anti-American.

[Megahurtz]

13. Wow they're Brainwashed as Hell!

Ridiculous!

Freezing just for GW???:dunce:

That's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a long time!

[AX10]

14. These asshats are going to elect another corrupt Repug as...

their governor too.

[John Gauger]

16. Is this for real?

What has this government ever done for them that would instill a sense of loyalty? Their natives! What government policy has ever benefitted them? Here is someone with a policy that actually benefits them, and they turn him away for that? That's their only objection? I don't understand that at all.

Edit: upon reading the link, it does not seem that the villagers themselves are the ones making the decision, but some guy who apparently has no interest in their well-being. The governor's office says this is an attempt to undermine faith in the government. Chavez doesn't have to do that because the government is doing a fine job of that itself. Maybe, if the government doesn't wan to look bad, instead of blocking efforts to fix the problem, they should try to fix the problem themselves.

[NOLADEM]

17. This isn't patriotism, it is small minded nationalism

What idiots. A

Are they turning down Saudi oil too?

Or is that ok because they buy oil from terrorists?

Instead of someone you don't like for reasons you probably don't understand yourself giving it to you?

Does the cold up there turn Alaskans into Ted Stevens wanna be's ??

Oh well, send it here. We could use it for rescue, clean up, levee building and coastal restoration.

[Kolesar]

21. "a few of the small communities want to refuse free heating oil from Vene"

A few Then they follow up with some quotes by the dumbass Governor of Maine and plans to pull down a Citgo sign in Massachusetts. This is propaganda, folks, propaganda without even a by-line from AP.

Time to vote out that dumb-ass Governor, too.

[MaineDem]

26. When did Maine's Governor become a "dumbass"?

The Governor of Maine, a good Democrat, accepted Citgo fuel last winter in the midst of a heating oil crisis.

What the hell do you mean by "dumbass"???

[Kolesar]

30. "he had no plans this year to seek a similar arrangement"

Maine Gov. John Baldacci, who approved an agreement last winter to buy discounted oil, said he had no plans this year to seek a similar arrangement.

[MaineDem]

36. So?

The need isn't there this year. I still don't know how you ascertained from this that he is a dumbass.

[UncleSepp]

23. I can understand why this would be a reasonable choice

Accepting help from Chavez does several things. Obviously, it keeps people warm and provides immediate relief from high oil prices and from the inflation of the prices of goods due to rising transportation costs. Some of the people quoted in the article who were in favor of accepting the gift pointed this out, that when people are in need, it's prideful folly to turn down a gift that will alleviate that need. I can understand why someone would choose to accept the gift - it is a reasonable decision. It is not, however, the only reasonable decision.

Accepting a gift from Chavez has the potential to create animosity and mistrust between the Federal government and the village. Willingly placing a remote village with few resources in opposition to a powerful government creates a risk that the same government will decrease its services even further, or even begin to suspect treason in the village and behave accordingly. Also, accepting the oil means accepting the role as pawn in the game that Chavez and Bush are playing. A village making this choice decides to enter the propaganda game as an actor in its own right.

A just solution would be for the people of Alaska to benefit from the natural resources of Alaska, including the oil, just as the people of any land should benefit from the natural resources of that land. No American should be warm and wealthy from the sale of oil while another American remains poor and cold from the high price of it. If people who are actually facing this problem have chosen to uphold their identity as loyal Americans even when it means forgoing immediate relief, they have strengthened their ability to make their case for a greater share in America's wealth to the nationalist types who currently control that wealth. Their choice allows them to represent themselves in the argument about resources as the resolute, stalwart type which resonates with the American concept of the national spirit. In the long run, such an image can inspire support from patriots.

We already know that the people in power and those who support them do not understand poverty, that they behave as if they hate the poor. The image of people so desperate that they have to take a donation from an enemy of the United States just to stay warm might indeed embarrass some genuine patriots into action, but as we've seen from previous scandals, the current crop of self-styled patriots knows no shame. The pathetic images of Katrina refugees did not, in fact, move such 'patriots' to empathy: it moved them to disgust and loathing instead. Accepting the gift would expose something that looks enough like weakness to elicit the same kind of disgust from the same hardhearted flag-waving set.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either accepting or not accepting the gift. I'm saying I can see some of the arguments for and against accepting the gift. I am also saying that I do not have grounds for judging someone else's decision.

[mcscajun]

42. A very insightful post. If I could recommend a reply, I definitely would

recommend yours.

Well done. :)

[leesa]

49. Obviously, their desperate poverty has escaped your notice. THIS

is their payment from their powerful federal government.

[UncleSepp]

56. No, it hasn't. I can see it - so can they

Being desperately poor does not mean that your opinions and decisions ought to be second-guessed by a bunch of random people on a website. Perhaps you do not respect the ability of the poor to make their own choices?

[Tyo]

24. At some point global warming will take care of their problem

If things continue to heat up as they have for the past few years it will eventually become a non-issue for them. Hope they can hold out that long.

[OnyxCollie]

25. Alaska's pretty fucked up.

Isn't there some problem going on with election results, where the election officials are refusing to turn over the results to be verified?

Sounds like someone who is not in need is trying to make a statement for all. Typical repug.

[Judi Lynn]

28. The story appearing in an Alaskan paper, as it was posted by

DU'er Harpboy_ak September 29th:

4 villages shun gift of free oil
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2537344#2537344

[Canuckistanian]

29. Chavez didn't bash YOU, Justine Gunderson

He bashed the temporary occupant of the White House.

And since when do you indentify so strongly with a man who's done NOTHING to help you himself?

[Catherine Vincent]

33. Fine. Let 'em freeze.

No pity for the stupidity.:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. See #44.

The idiots who did this will have frozen blood on their hands.

Manslaughter, I say.

[Zhade]

34. He doesn't deserve your misplaced loyalty.

NT!

[xxqqqzme]

37. because they think chucklenuts gives

a rat's ass whether they freeze or not?

[Vinca]

38. I hope they don't hold their breath waiting for oil from King George.

How stupid. Why do the poorest of the poor continue to support this regime? Wake up, people. Bush IS the devil.

[pampango]

39. If people in another country did it to us, I would respect their pride and

nationalism. I can say no less for people in our own country if they choose to so the same.

[Judi Lynn]

41. Pride? No, ignorance. They have not kept up on events, or they

would realize _Bush substantially underwrote an armed coup on Hugo Chavez, and has been working to destabilize the Venezuelan government ever since the coup failed.

Hugo Chavez already offered aid to Louisiana and Florida immediately after Hurricane Katrina, and U.S. DEMOCRATIC Congressmen made arrangements with his government last year to supply their poorer neighborhoods with a 40% discount on oil, and brought it in with Citgo oil trucks, a very LARGE deal which was attended by DEMOCRATIC Congress people in person in quite a few states.

Arrangements were also sought and very promptly arranged with various Native American tribe representatives in the lower States.

There's absolutely nothing about _{George W. Bush} which should move people to feel ANY kind of loyalty. He did not feel loyalty for you when he hid out and ducked his contract with the Champagne Brigade, the rich kids' chapter of the Texas Air National Guard, for Christ's sakes, and avoided the fate of having to serve like other American young men who had no choice but to go to VietNam or to jail.

[pampango]

43. Obviously, I agree with you with respect to Bush and his policies.

Not everyone agrees with us, of course, and to the extent that people are willing to sacrifice for their beliefs (even if I think they are wrong) whether they are in China, Cuba, or Alaska, I can respect that.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

44. Tell that to the innocent people who did NOT refuse but are going to

freeze to death anyway because some right-wing nincompoop decided their lives are less important than preventing some Evil Leftist from getting good PR.

[Zorra]

40. Misguided nationalism. Smells like teen spirit. Rah, rah, rah.

Kiss the fascist bootheel as it crushes your head.

[Little Star]

46. I wish the rest of the world would stand up to our

great decider. When people speak the truth I personally have no problem where their feet are planted at the time. If he weren't a deceitful criminal I might object. But then again, sticks and stones.....

[Cha]

47. Go Idiots!

Let's hear it for the most stupid among us.. :applause:

First of all, bush is as evil as the devil is written about and secondly Chavez meant it metaphorically, and thirdly, .."you're gonna god damn freeze to death for bush?"

Go for it.

[stepnw1f]

48. Dumb Asses.... The Right Wing Suckered You Again

Absolutely uniformed.....

[anotherdrew]

50. it's only "a few" yet the headline says the whole state, damn the media

we need a new generation of editors

[NVMojo]

51. obviously a bribe of some sort resembling lotsa $$$ is involved ...

[hogwyld]

52. Stupid, stupid, stuped...

Well, look on the bright side, there will be fewer repug votes next time around...

[muryan]

53. Good for them

Although i don't agree with their reasoning being that of loyalty to bush. The only thing i ever seen chavez doing is making a power grab at every chance he gets. He is purposely instigating political conflict for absolutely no reason. As far as im concerned hes in the boat with kim, castro, ahmadinejad, and bush as world leaders that would be better off finding another job.

[Robbien]

54. Please explain

What power grab? He was elected by a wide margin.

What political conflict is he instigating? Your statement is backwards, BushCo is instigating political conflict in the country Chavez was elected to lead.

A couple of Alaskan villages say no to the oil, but 150 Alaskan villages say yes. You praise the couple of Alaskan leaders who are going to let their tribes freeze this winter by rejecting this oil. So do you now plan on making nasty remarks about the poor Alaskan natives who have accepted Chavez's donation?

[Bridget Burke]

57. Chavez "Making a power grab at every chance he gets".....

Got a source?

[stepnw1f]

59. power grab? Helping Folks is a Power Grab

At least for we Americans I suppose. The US has veiled their own power grabs through aiding nations. Is this why?

I don't think so... what power would he attain from aiding Alaskans? If anything, he embarrasses the leaders of our country.

[dailykoff]

55. "Justine Gunderson, administrator for the tribal council"?

Appointed by whom, I wonder?

[Strawman]

58. Hmm. Lemme think. Ice cubes for testicles or hurt feelings for Chimpy....

Boy, that's a real tuffy....

[Canuckistanian]

60. Here's a much more accurate and balanced view

From the Anchorage Daily News:

"Many Welcome Free Fuel"

John Manly, a spokesman for Gov. Frank Murkowski, said the governor believes the donation is a political ploy to undermine Americans' faith in their government but it's up to each village to make its own decision on the offer.

"It seems like a very strange irony that we produce the oil and yet every year there seems to be a chronic problem in getting the fuel to people that need it," Manly said. "Governor Murkowski has tried to do that, but obviously there's still some work to be done. It's not an easy job to keep up with rising costs.

Of the communities tagged to receive the money in November, all but a handful have accepted. Officials in four villages in the Aleutian and Pribilof islands rejected the offer because Chavez's comments offended them, but most recipients say survival trumps the faraway political fracas.

http://www.adn.com/money/industries/oil/story/8285344p-8181865c.html

[Judi Lynn]

62. It is strange, isn't it, that 4 villages reject, and 150 ACCEPT the oil

and it's the four rejections that are hogging the spotlight.

I don't think it's any accident: I think right-wing idiots are steering the attention right back to these four villages again and again, hoping the 150 villages which will take the oil will never be noticed.

[classysassy]

61. The big oil crooks

should help those bush backers.(dumb)