Rep. Kolbe visited Grand Canyon with pages

[Singular73]

Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) took two male pages with him on a three-day camping trip in 1996, former congressional pages and National Park Service officials tell NBC News. The pages, who were 17 at the time, went rafting and camping with Kolbe in the Grand Canyon over the July 4th holiday that year.

A spokeswoman for Rep. Kolbe confirms the overnight trip but says that the pages did not travel alone with Kolbe. The congressman's sister was on the trip, along with office staffers and several Park Service employees, says Kolbe spokeswoman Korenna Cline. Gary Cummins, the deputy superintendent of Grand Canyon in 1996, tells NBC News that he also was on the trip with Congressman Kolbe. He confirms that two young men were on the trip with Kolbe, as part of a larger group.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15214639/

[Singular73]

1. Should this matter?

Well...I think so.

Here is what Congressman-Page relationship should be:

"Page, get me some coffee."

Thats it.

[No Exit]

24. Damn right!

A fucking congressman/congresswoman has no business hanging out with underage people in personal, overnight situations.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Singular73]

3. So because you find this offensive, its no longer news?

Ok.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TomInTib]

5. So some second-rate burglars broke into an office at Watergate.

Nothing to see here, just move along.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

7. Got a crime?

Tell me what law was violated. Camping is not illegal. Camping with teenagers isn't illegal (otherwise every Scout Leader would be in prison). Camping with a group that includes several other responsible adults is above suspicion. This is a smear job, and there's no frickin' way this board should be disseminating it.

[JI7]

11. i guess some people think being gay is a crime

[JI7]

10. i agree

[against all enemies]

12. Congressmen should not be on camping trips with pages.

Male or female, it is improper, it's that simple.

[Judi Lynn]

20. I would have rather been attacked with a chain saw than to have to

go on a camping trip with any of my former employers.

It's not in a normal job description, for certain.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoFerret]

8. GOP witch hunt operation to "clean" house?

Let's make sure we focus on the real issues and not join any homophobic GOP "cleansing".

[rocktivity]

16. DING DING DING! JoFerret, you're our grand prize winner!

(A) GOP witch hunt operation to "clean" house?

Since everybody's telling a different story about how this matter was handled, the GOP is in a no-win situation. Even if they do succeed in turning this into a "gay issue," purging the party of gays won't solve anything, because they'd still have explain why they took (hush?) money from Foley, let him remain on an anti-pedophile committee, supported his re-election twice, AND DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO KEEP FOLEY AWAY FROM THEIR CHILDREN!

:bounce:
rocknation

[pscot]

9. Not much here

Just a bit of sly character asassination.

[leQ]

26. yup, it looks like there's a movement to push out gays afoot. (nt)

[rocktivity]

13. Verrrrrry interesting

First Kolbe says he saw some Foley e-mails back in 2000, told the page board, and spoke to Foley about the matter personally. Then he denies it. Now this story pops up in the MSM. Coincidence?

:shrug:
rocknation

[Az_lefty]

14. This isn't news...Kolbe's being set up...

this thread should be pulled.

[Singular73]

15. For Gods sakes

Even if you dont consider it Just, we shouldn't "Pull" it.

Ridiculous. If Bush wiretaps someone, do you want that thread pulled because its wrong?

[rpannier]

17. So???

So, Kolbe took male pages on a camping trip.
Is this a problem because he's openly homosexual, or what?

[pnwmom]

18. The reason this is relevant

is that Kolbe is heavily involved in the Foley thing, because of his position on the page committee.

At first the reports were that, years ago, he had confronted Foley about his behavior. Then the story changed. Now Kolbe's saying that when Kolbe received the complaint and was given the initial emails, he didn't "directly" confront Foley -- he just passed the complaint and the emails on to Foley, for him to deal with.

Was his reaction to the Foley problem blunted by his own involvement with the pages -- I'm not saying sexual involvement, just involvement? Could it have kept him from seeing the seriousness of the problem?

[SoCalDem]

19. It's about the APPEARANCE of IMPROPRIETY

Congressmen (and women) have ACCESS to these teenagers.. they are in a position of authority. These young people are obviously interested in politics, and may be planning a career in politcis, so they WANT attention from the legislators.

A "creepy" guy like Foley probably took time to size up the "vulnerable ones" and spent time "grooming them"..maybe he even got tips from Kolbe..who knows?

It's the creepy predatory..almost stalking.. of these kids..

were the kids gay as well?? maybe..maybe not.. perhaps they just "put up with" the attention (wanted or unwanted,because they knew they would be going back home where no one would know..and if it helped them advance in their career in politics..well...

[JoFerret]

21. "maybe he even got tips from Kolbe..who knows?"

Actually he got them from Condoleeza Rice and Warren Buffett and who knows who else. Who knows?

[Earth_First]

22. *YAWN*

So are we manufacturing 'news' here, or is there something to this story. Are we to start announcing every single action/event that a member of Congress has with congressional staff?

If there are legal ramifications to this story, state them. Please. However if we are going to manufacture 'news' in order to cast shadows of doubt with no substance, this is nothing but garbage which editors ought to be held accountable for.

Next up: Ted Kennedy had a Starbucks with congressional staff in 1999. :eyes:

[depakid]

23. As a matter of ethics

In case anyone's interested in such "quaint" notions anymore-

You don't behave in ways that might create the appearance of impropriety.

Particularly when there's an unequal power situation like this one.

Whether this Republican abused his power or not isn't the issue. It's whether under the circumstances- and given this opportunity- he might have.

[meisje]

25. How did Jeff Gannon get involved in all of this?

:rofl:

[janx]

27. Um...SO WHAT?

Is there a problem because...because...because...Kolbe is a GAY man? :wow:

:sarcasm:

[pnwmom]

30. What if Kolbe were a straight man and took a bunch of girls camping?

Wouldn't that raise some eyebrows, too?

Especially if he were one of the people -- as Kolbe is -- who had had information about Foley (let's pretend he was also hanging out with girls)?

I think it is justified to report on Kolbe's involvement, because it puts into context Kolbe's decision not to report the parent's complaint about Foley -- but simply to forward the complaint and offending emails to Foley himself!

[saracat]

28. Would it be a problem is a heterosexual female congressperson took

17 yr.old male pages camping? I think so. It smacks of improprioty.In the military it would be fraternization and not allowed.It has nothing to do with Kolbe being gay.

[Ronnie]

29. Another example:

What would people say if a teacher (male or female) took two students (male or female) on a weekend trip? I'm pretty sure what school administrators would say. Also, as a former teacher, I don't know why anyone would want to do it. Regular field trips were stressful enough.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. Have you read this article?

It shows that Kolbe was accompanied by his sister, an unknown number of staff members and an unknown number of park service employees. And two Pages.

I will agree that if Kolbe went alone with them, it would be improper (whether Kolbe was gay or straight or male or female). But considering it was a group of adults who happened to take along two high schoolers (they even had to pay their own way), this is perhaps the most colossal non-issue I've ever seen.

[Igel]

31. Eh. No problem with it.

Horrors, having fraternization between those in power and those not in power. It should be banned.

Even worse, giving kids some sort of adult companionship--especially when the adults are mixed sex. 16-year-olds do best when left in groups by themselves, with no supervision. Esp. if they're away from home.

[Infinite Hope]

33. There's nothing wrong...

with a Member of Congress going on outings with staffers, interns, and pages in a group. Nor is there really anything wrong with a Member of Congress going on outings with pages in a kosher situation because they are supposed to be mentors and there is nothing wrong with outings in and of themselves.

There's no reason to make this into something it's not and grandstand because of some newfound superiority complex that we've received due to our Democratic momentum.

Claiming trips are flatly wrong in all cases makes no more sense than claiming gay marriage or abortions are flatly wrong. The pages went on an outing with other staffers and their mentor and it seems there is nothing to this...

...besides being bait put up by Republicans to distract gullible Democrats and the media from the real issues that are hiding and growing behind the scenes as we speak.

Color me disappointed at some for achieving the same superficial no-merit judgment-like attitudes as Republicans.