US weighs first treason charges in over 50 years

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N11240953.htm

US weighs first treason charges in over 50 years

WASHINGTON, Oct 11 (Reuters) - A California-born convert to Islam could become the first American accused of treason since World War Two after he appeared in al Qaeda videos, sources familiar with the man's case said on Wednesday.

They said U.S. prosecutors were strongly considering bringing the charges, which carry a maximum punishment of death, against Adam Gadahn, 28, who is believed to be overseas and is not in U.S. custody.

The charges could come as early as Wednesday.

The U.S. Justice Department last brought treason charges, during the World War Two era, the sources said.

Gadahn, who is also known on the videos as Azzam the American, has been involved in a propaganda campaign of the Islamic militant group, the sources said. Some of the videos have threatened attacks against the United States.

[HereSince1628]

1. His where-abouts unknown, or did he just disappear?

Sort of need to stop and ponder that nowadays.

[Rex]

2. Azzam the American, how quaint.

Dam, didn't take them long to test out their new dictatorial powers! This is another test run. Positive results will allow them to try it out on Americans IN the US. Hey there big dictators - why not just catch OBL with all that new manly power? Or find those WMD we so dearly lose lives over everyday?

No?

Yeah, let's get Azzam the American. That will show em! :eyes:

[Tellurian]

16. You've got it XACTLY Right!...

This is the Test case that will apply to all Americans (for the time being).

They will build on this case gradually tightening the criteria tailoring it
to the next group earmarked for warehousing.

[saigon68]

3. Its Tokyo Rose

[madrchsod]

8. tokyo rose

who lived the rest of her life in chicago. i don`t think this guy will be able to do the same

[saigon68]

21. NOT IF HE WEARS THAT SILLY DIAPER ON HIS HEAD

The United States Senate has been called "the greatest deliberative body in the world." It won't be that for long if Congressman John Cooksey of Monroe gets there.




Cooksey, an arch-conservative Republican, is planning to run against Sen. Mary Landrieu, a Democrat nearing the end of her first term. Cooksey made news last week for some bone-headed comments about airport security and racial profiling in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"If I see someone comes in that's got a diaper on his head and a fan belt wrapped around the diaper on his head, that guy needs to be pulled over," Cooksey said during an interview with Louisiana Radio Network.

[KansDem]

26. Well, I know what *I'll* be wearing the next time I fly...

+ = :evilgrin:

[saigon68]

32. LOL Outstanding and outrageous post

Cooksey really said that shit.

[smirkymonkey]

4. Damn, I thought the OP was referring to members of the

Bush administration. Imagine my disappointment.

[bluestateguy]

5. There is a very high bar for a treason conviction

A treason case must be about substantive behavior, not just symbolic or ideological behavior. There is no law that Americans must love America. Hating America is legal and constitutional for citizens. Just being in propaganda videos to me would not pass the test. Providing material or mechanical help for a pending terrorist attack against the US would pass the test. You also need either a confession or 2 witnesses for a conviction under the Constitution. The government needs an airtight case, and all too often we've seen this "Justice" Department take these cases into court with flimsy evidence.

[nealmhughes]

13. Yep, Constitution clearly says confession or two witnesses.

Oddly, I think they meant two people and not wiretapped conversaitons, videos or any talk at all, it appeantly has to give material aid and comfort to the enemy or else bear arms against the USA.

[Hard_Work]

23. What is this

"Constitution" of which you speak? Is it a reference to the mythical document that was the building block for the 'Land of Bush', supposedly formerly known as the United States of America?

[The Stranger]

37. But it doesn't say that the two witnesses don't have to be tortured.

Just pick up a couple "diaper heads," torture the shit out of them and -- VOILA! -- you have two witnesses.

:sarcasm:

[onenote]

15. i agree with your leagal analysis but with one quibble

I don't think we can say we've seen the justice dept take "these" casees into court with flimsy evidence. This is the first indictment for treason in 50 years.

[niyad]

18. have you forgotten the provisions of the torture bill? makes pretty

much everything you are saying obsolete

[kestrel91316]

29. I tend to agree. So far, all we know this guy did was exercise his

FREE SPEECH RIGHTS. Every American has the absolute right to HATE whatever government is in power, and to speak out against it.

If that's all they have on him - some VIDEOS of him expressing hatred - they are going to have a real hard time with this in court. Doesn't mean they won't try. This is meant to serve as a warning to all of US of what they will do to US for speaking out.

I may think this guy is an ass, but he's entitled to speak his mind.

[saigon68]

34. Just LOOK to the Gainesville Eight

Vietnam Veterans Against the War had planned to demonstrate against the ongoing Vietnam War during the convention. After learning, from FBI informants and agents within the VVAW, about possible plans for disruption and violence, the Justice Department initiated a Grand Jury investigation. Eight of the people investigated were indicted by the government on charges of conspiracy to disrupt the convention. They were John Briggs, Scott Camil, Alton Foss, John Kniffin, Peter Mahoney, Stanley Michelson, William Patterson, and Don Perdue. All but Briggs (also known as Peavey John) were Vietnam Veterans.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gainesville_Eight


The jury got to read the letter containing all the proposed plans on attacking the federal buildings, but they also got to read the constantly repeated admonition in the letter, "This will be done for defensive purposes only." The jury saw that their goal was to protect the rights of the protesters, and they acquitted the eight men of all charges without the need for them to present a defense. In Camil's words, "We had no conspiracy to disrupt the convention. Our conspiracy, if you want to call it that, was to go down to the convention and exercise our Constitutional rights as citizens and to defend those rights against anybody who tried to take away those rights, whether it be the government or anyone else. And the jury sided with us."

[aquart]

6. Damn, I thought we were talking about George.

[E-Z-B]

7. I thought it was Rove for his role with Valerie Plame

[Zhade]

9. Um...b*s* administration...anyone?

Whole bunch of traitors there, ripe for the picking!

[eppur_se_muova]

10. NOOOO!! Reserve this honor for Bu**sh**!

He's done SOOOO much to earn it!

[Vidar]

11. Bush, Gonzales & anyone else party to the signing statments

qualify for about 800 counts of treason.

[Justyce]

12. "Azzam" is the guy who

looked like Rove dressed up in the tape released shortly before the 2004 election, correct?

[IndianaGreen]

14. This is election year posturing by a politicized Justice Department

We all know full well that none of the top Al-Qaeda leaders will ever see the inside of an American courtroom. The rule of law and habeas corpus are not something that concerns Reich Attorney General Gonzales.

[patrick t. cakes]

17. gotta keep putting

a scary face out there.
another boogie man.
:mad:

[Singular73]

19. This guy deserves it.

He has, technically, and in the spirit of the law, commited treason against the United States.

Fry him.

[Nihil]

22. LOL!

Neat!

For a minute I thought you were serious. :-)

[Singular73]

31. I am...

[Nihil]

33. Oh dear.

That's sad. Sorry. Didn't mean to laugh at the afflicted.

[Singular73]

20. This guy deserves it.

He has, technically, and in the spirit of the law, commited treason against the United States.

Fry him.

[PsychoDad]

25. You said that already.

Can you show how he has given material support to the enimies of the united states? You have 2 witnesses?

Heck, they'll try this guy first then go after Oblerman on the same charges...

Talking bad about der Fuhrer gets you that in pre 1214 Amerika.


Habius Corpus ? That's so post 1214.

[brentspeak]

27. You're comparing this guy to Olberman??

That's some slippery slope you've constructed.

I don't know if the government has an airtight case against Gadahn, but the fact that he's in a video sitting with bin Laden's Number Two man is cause enough to look into charges of treason.

[saigon68]

36. Its just political free speech--kinda like Flag Burning-

Fire One up

[PsychoDad]

38. The Bush regime has already constructed that slope...

With the suspension of Habeas corpus, and even before that consider the illegal detention and torture of Padilla, a US Citizen.

Detained without a warrant or charges for 8 months. It can now happen to any of us.

Here we have yet another citizen, "Azzam the american" whose only observable crime is being in 5 videos with Osamma's number 2 de jour and badmouthing the US and the bush junta.

Not to make too fine a point that some of these "Al Quadia videos" have been suspect.

Badmouthing the bush junta, is that now treason? Then count me in as a traitor, and almost everyone on this board.

As you point out, if there is evidence of treason as per the constitution against this man then he does indeed deserve his day in court as any of us would.

Unfortunately none of us are guaranteed that any more.

When one compares the damage caused to this country by "azzam the american" with the gutting of the Constitution and damage done to this country by an president and his cabal who now sit in power because of two stolen elections, I beg to ask...

Who are the greater traitors and threats to our country and freedom?

[geek tragedy]

28. "Material support" isn't the standard in the Constitution.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

This chap has, beyond a reasonable doubt, adhered to AQ and is giving them Aid and Comfort by producing propaganda videos on their behalf.

Nevertheless, this is a political stunt.

[Big_Mike]

41. I agree

Treason is the only crime for which specifications exists in the Constitution. The following statement also is Article III Section 3: "Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." Given that probably 15 - 20 MILLION people have viewed what he said on tape, I believe the two witnesses burden of proof has been reached.

His case is somewhat akin to that of John Walker Lindh. While he did not directly combat US forces on the battlefield, he also did not withdraw when the US went against the Taliban. His service clearly provided aid to the Taliban. IIRC, one of the reasons Lindh accepted the plea bargain was to avoid treason charges.

I would believe that this fellow has serious problems, should he ever be apprehended.

[Singular73]

30. For gods sakes.

I can't stand *this* type of Liberal, specifically.

[Bridget Burke]

35. What type of Liberal CAN you stand?

Those who don't give a fuck about the Constitution.?

[PsychoDad]

40. The Constitution was written by Liberals....

The Constitution, the document that so many Americans bleed and died for is nothing but toilet paper to these flag waiving, talking point parroting, neo-con traitors.

To them this document, made sacred by the blood of so many good men and women who have gone before us, is nothing but a piece of paper. A piece of paper to be discarded and defiled to meet their power hungry ends.

It is they who should be tried for sedition.

[PsychoDad]

39. The type that asks you to explain yourself further?

"I can't stand *this* type of Liberal, specifically."

I'm sure that puts me in some pretty good company. Thank you :)

Peace.

[tabasco]

24. What about Cheney & Bush? Plame ring a bell?

Uncontrolled nuke material is our #1 threat.

Bush & Cheney compromised the top spy operation to find contraband nuke material around the globe.

They should be the first ones tried for treason.