Teacher Suspended For Toy Gun Used In Play

[ECH1969]

School officials in Florida are deciding what to with a teacher who allegedly carried a toy gun around school property.

Collier County sheriff’s spokeswoman Kristin Adams said the teacher did not make any threats to anyone, and no criminal violations were found.

But the school district is conducting its own investigation and will interview teachers, staff and students at the school about the incident.

The paper reported that Hamblett said the toy gun strongly resembled a 45 mm gun.

http://www.theindychannel.com/education/10060122/detail.html

[ulysses]

1. it's such a joy to be a teacher these days...

:eyes:

[ECH1969]

2. A 45 mm gun?

That must be one hell of a large handgun.

[Richard Steele]

5. Doncha love it when reporters have no idea what they are talking about?

Morans.

ON EDIT:

THIS is a "45mm gun":


The TOY the teacher had, in all likelyhood,
probably resembled a .45 caliber pistol:


I can see how a "reporter" might confuse the two. :sarcasm:

[merwin]

48. LOL. How do you carry one of those around? Must be heavy

[Richard Steele]

58. Most folks need to tow them behind a jeep.....

Must be a hell of a strong guy who could carry one in his waistband!

Not to mention: what brand of pants does he wear? I need some of those
for work!

[reprobate]

82. You need a REALLY BIG holster.

[LostinVA]

55. Okay, that's what I THOUGHT a 45mm gun was...

Morans.

[Oeditpus Rex]

65. The reporter wrote that the school district official

"said the toy gun strongly resembled a 45 mm gun."

Why is it automatically the reporter's fault? Is it not possible that Hamblett misspoke and was quoted accurately?

[krispos42]

44. Here's a slightly smaller 40mm S&W handgun

This is called the L/60, the compact-sized varient of the larger L/70. This is the ultra-lethal quad-barreled one, but you can get them in doubles and singles as well. The quad mount is not legal in Californa, being classified as an "assault weapon", but the doubles are popular as home-defense weapons and the singles are often used for concealed-carry throughout the Unites States and some other countries. :sarcasm:

[rodeodance]

3. we have a WH summit on school violence that does not mention guns and

now this happens to a teacher?

[slackmaster]

4. Carrying around something that looks like a 45 mm gun???

A Soviet 45 perhaps?



Most impressive!

ETA Nobody ever went broke betting against the news media's ability to get technical information right.

[John Gauger]

6. Whoa whoa whoa

At our school play two years ago, they used a real gun. And last year my friend used a sword cane as a prop.

[krispos42]

78. I kid at my HS brought a cutlass for Halloween

It was dull, but it was real. He went as a pirate.

[Horse with no Name]

7. I'd be concerned that this gun was used for intimidation purposes

It was totally inappropriate to have the gun at school at all--and the fact that it was used in a school play is equally as offensive.
But the teacher should have known better.

[slackmaster]

8. It wasn't a gun

It was a prop.

...the fact that it was used in a school play is equally as offensive.

Are you advocating censoring guns out of plays before they can be performed in schools?

[superconnected]

12. I would recommend censoring plays that use guns at this point in time.

Just seems like a bad idea.

[slackmaster]

14. Sorry about that, Bertolt Brecht and others

:eyes:

[cmd]

16. Fire me, then

I taught kindergarten. As part of our Thanksgiving unit the children used a wooden rifle to hunt paper turkeys. I guess 9/11 changed that part of history as well.

[slackmaster]

19. The Pilgrims took game that Native Americans would have eaten

Ban them, too.

:eyes:

[0007]

46. 'O God yes! Lets do away with all the knifes also while we're at it.

You gotta be kidding.

[IA_Seth]

64. I advocate removing all thumbs and forefingers as well....

You never now when some devilish child will point that dangerous thing at me and say "bang, bang".

This thread is comedy.

[bperci108]

72. Censorship....

...now there's a good idea. :eyes:


OMFG....I think censoring art because of hoplophobia is an even worse idea.

(Hoplophobia: The irrational fear of firearms. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia)

[harpboy_ak]

76. Sorry, the First Amendment hasn't been cancelled

Even though Bu$h would like to think so. CENSORSHIP IS ILLEGAL as well as just plain WRONG and stupid. If we give up free speech rights in schools, we might as well just teach the kids right up front that the Constitution is meaningless.

Censorship is the BAD IDEA.

[DerBeppo]

85. that is

fucktacularly overboard. Why just guns? Why not censor all plays with any sort of violence? While were at it, we can start burning the scripts as a statment of our beautiful non-voilenceness.

[Horse with no Name]

13. Of course it was a prop

BUT what if a child had gotten hold of the same gun and started pointing it at people?
This was in Florida. Same place that tazers 5-year olds.
I don't think with the school shootings that even play guns (some of them look too realistic) should be allowed.
It is a tragedy waiting to happen when a cop shows up and mows the kid down without asking questions first.

[slackmaster]

15. What if, what if, what if...

I don't think with the school shootings that even play guns (some of them look too realistic) should be allowed.

It's really sad to see someone on DU forums advocating censorship.

[Horse with no Name]

20. And it is equally as sad seeing someone on DU

advocating possible injury to a child.

[slackmaster]

22. Nice straw man

I do not now nor have I ever advocated possible injury to a child.

Shame on you, Horse with no Name. Go back to the desert.

[Horse with no Name]

23. Not any different than your straw man

Shame on YOU.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Censorship is exactly what you are advocating.

And it seems to be reactionary to the recent violence.

You seem like the type that supported banning John Lennon after 9-11.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. It's not censorship

It's about maintaining a safe environment for kids.

[slackmaster]

27. Props don't endanger kids

Claiming they do is absurd.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Teaching them to use guns real or fake

is not the school's responsibility nor should it be. Guns should also not be glorified in schools (not even in a play). And you need to read this entire article and see what details you missed. This teacher was not using the gun in a play.

It is great to know that we can have our kids in one environment where there are no weapons. That is the point.

If you disagree, contact your congress critters. Federal law bans guns from schools.

[slackmaster]

39. I think gun safety should be taught in schools

Most parents are not qualified to teach their children what to do when they encounter an unsecured firearm. Every child deserves the opportunity to know how to safely unload the most common types of firearms. That can be taught safely with non-firing replicas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. My kids learned about guns in Boy Scouts

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

47. Bullshit. It's censorship.

Also, just because a play contains a gun, doesn't mean it glorifies guns. And a prop gun/knife is not a weapon, it's a harmless depiction of a weapon.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. It's also a law in many states

It is here. No guns, real or fake. So I guess that means no plays with guns in high schools.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. Well then it's state sponsored censorship.

And therefore contrary to the First Amendment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Um the first amendment is not about guns

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. No, it's about speech.

Plays are a form of speech.

I think a fifth grade civics class could probably teach you a thing or two about the first amendment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. I thought this discussion was about PROPS in a play

Now all of a sudden it's a first amendment issue? Yeah sure. Next you will tell me that schools banning weapons are violating the first amendment, eh?

[mongo]

59. So,

No Guys and Dolls, Westside Story, Farenheight 411 (flamethrowers), etc. etc. etc.

Guess we need to have the high schoolers do an interpretation of Barney (I love you...you love me), or maybe vegitales.

[harpboy_ak]

77. Federal law bans GUNS, not play props

You censorship nuts should just go join the damn Repukes. Federal laws ban GUNS, not props for plays. Next thing you'll be banning "Macbeth".

[jmowreader]

83. Have you read the play in question?

You can work a gun into a play without "glorifying" guns. Perhaps the play in question demonizes the gun. I don't know. I didn't read it either.

[DerBeppo]

86. good thing

that the teacher didn't bring a gun to school then.

I can cut up some cardboard in the shap of a computer, but that doesn't make it one.

[DrunkenMaster]

42. bullshite

You can attempt to frame it any way you like...it's still censorship.

[merwin]

49. What? Someone might get cold cocked with the fake gun?

This is a PROP in a school play. Should they ban toy swords in plays too? Might want to ban shoes as well. Who knows, some kid could be hiding a toy bomb in them!

[DrunkenMaster]

41. Awesome Response!

Now that you've mastered the Slippery Slope fallacy, why not go even further?

Let's ban ALL theatre, literature and films with guns in them from our schools! No more history textbooks, no more "Johnny Tremain", no more "All Quiet on the Western Front", no more "1984"!

With ideas like yours running our public schools it is no wonder most college freshman don't know who our allies were in WWII....

[Horse with no Name]

43. How does not allowing a child to bring guns--toy or otherwise--

equate to what you are talking about?
You don't need a gun to teach history about the Wild West anymore than you need raging tuberculosis to teach medicine.
You win the prize for the best strawman of the hour.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Yes, there have been too many school shootings

Besides, in my state, even toy guns are not allowed in schools. So this teacher would be breaking the law here.

[slackmaster]

28. How many people have been shot with toy guns

:crazy:

Besides, in my state, even toy guns are not allowed in schools. So this teacher would be breaking the law here.

Your state's law is beyond the pale.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Same law in many states

It is a part of federal standards for drug and violence free schools. So complain to your congress reps.

[Ms. Toad]

88. Am I missing something?.

KS 21-4201 bars possession of real firearms in schools - with quite a few exceptions (including for approved firearms classes - presumably for ROTC). http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/23rdedition/kansas.pdf

Is there a separate statute dealing with toy guns?

[ulysses]

9. how is having props available for a school play offensive?

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Do you really think any kind of gun (even a toy)

belongs in a school? I don't even let my students draw pictures with guns in them.

As I said in another post, in my state, even toy guns are banned from schools.

I think there is a way to put on a play and leave out the guns. If not, then maybe that play is not appropriate for kids to perform at school.

[ulysses]

37. as a prop, sure.

What do you do for Oklahoma? Carrots in the holsters?

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Maybe for high school

But not in elementary schools.

Does anyone do Oklahoma anymore?

[ulysses]

61. they certainly still do

in Oklahoma. :)

[slackmaster]

62. They do in California as well

Prop guns and all.

[displacedtexan]

11. OMG! You can't even produce "Funny Girl" without toy guns...

or "South Pacific" or "Oklahoma!" or tons of other shows.

I guess students will be forced to repeat "Our Town" every year
from now on.

Sorry for the rant. I wasn't aiming at you personally.

[Horse with no Name]

17. We used ones that were made out of wood

with exaggerated features so that NO mistake would be made.
I'm sorry--in today's climate of school shootings, nothing that resembles a real gun should be on a school campus.

[DerBeppo]

87. so instead of teaching reality

you turn a violent weapon into a safe and friendly cartoon with exaggerated features. Kinda like Jerry crushing Tom's head with an iron.

Way to be responsible.

[slackmaster]

18. Annie Get Your Gun

:nuke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I agree

No guns at school period. Real or fake.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. I find the idea...

that students/teachers can't use fake guns as props in school plays to be offensive.

Down right appalling, actually.

What the fuck next? Can't talk about wars in history class?

Sheesh.

[WindRavenX]

79. same here

Goddamn this country has jumped the shark in a biiiiiiig way :(

[sandnsea]

54. I've got no problem with a toy gun in a play

But it should have been carried straight to the drama room and back out, in a box of other props. It'll be interestin to see why this teacher was carrying this gun around the campus, which does seem a bit peculiar.

[mongo]

57. Guess "Guy's and Doll's" is out for the school musical

geesh...

And -- it wasn't a gun! It was a prop.

[Warpy]

10. Here's the operative paragraph

"The sheriff's office said deputies were called to the school in Collier County, Fla., and found the teacher carrying the small plastic gun with a red tip in the back of his pants, but at no time was anyone in danger. He told deputies he found the toy in a prop box at the school and that it was used for a school play."

http://www.theindychannel.com/education/10060122/detail.html

So the gun HAD BEEN used in a play AT SOME TIME. Somebody needs to take a closer look at this guy, but firing him seems a bit drastic.

Since he's been put on administrative leave with pay, that sounds like what they are doing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. So why did he HAVE the gun

and in his back pocket?? Kudos to you for reading the article so closely. It sure doesn't smell right to me.

[ECH1969]

21. A 45 mm gun

[ulysses]

35. is that a field artillery piece in your pocket

or are you happy to see me?

[Katzenjammer]

31. The red barrel tip is the worldwide-standard marker that it's a toy/prop

That fact should let the teacher completely off the hook.

(For anyone who wants to try to argue that it shouldn't because anyone could paint a red tip on a real pistol, I'll just point out that anyone could wrap explosives around their body under their clothing, too...but nobody would be fool enough to argue that people should be punished for not going naked)

[Horse with no Name]

32. But when that red tip is in his pocket

who is going to see it?

[Katzenjammer]

36. When the pistol is in his pocket, who's going to shoot it?

If someone sees it, but doesn't recognise that it's a plastic toy, they can say 'is that a REAL gun??' and he can say 'no it's a toy I found in the prop box. It must have been used for a play at some time.'.

And if he's such a scary person that people would immediately believe he's carrying a real pistol and flee rather than check it out, then there's a lot more wrong there than the guy merely having a plastic prop in his pocket, no?

[Horse with no Name]

40. Then why is he carrying it?

Intimidation is the only answer.
Kids don't need that kind of fear.

[Katzenjammer]

50. Intimidation is the "only" answer??

I hardly think so. How many male teachers can you think of who'd need a pistol to intimidate ickle middle schoolers? I can't think of any. My three all considered the male teachers with one exception to be stern disciplinarians when they got to middle school, having only had female teachers in primary school.

What seems much more likely to me is that this luckless teacher stuck it in his pocket to get it out of the prop box and then either forgot about it or failed to have it cross his mind that someone could use it to manufacture a problem for him.

[slackmaster]

53. No, intimidation is not the only answer

He may have been simply transporting it from one place to another.

The article does not provide enough information to make a determination of his state of mind or intentions.

[devilgrrl]

38. Fuckin' Florida...

what a fucked up shithole that state is. Someone go to Georgia and saw it off the continental US.

[BreweryYardRat]

63. Lovely. So you want to kick me, flvegan, and other DUers out of the US?

The state may have more than its share of crazies, but that's no reason to condemn everyone.

And if you were joking (more than likely), I still don't appreciate it.

[Vidar]

60. I'm glad I got out of teaching when I did.

[Odin2005]

70. This irrational paranoia has to stop.

For Christ's sake IT IS A TOY! Fear of school shootings has turned us into pathological paranoiacs. :eyes:

[bperci108]

73. Funny to see fundamentalist thinking (Anti-gun) on this side isn't it?

This is the sort of pathetic, illogical, over-the-top insanity that has kept the Democratic Party out of any real running in dozens of races, (especially in the South, West and Midwest) for decades. :grr:

Where did this irrational fear of weapons (even TOYS, for fuck's sake!) come from??? :wtf:

[Odin2005]

75. Colombine.

We've becoming a nation of scardy-cats because of 24-hour cable news using scary sensationalist crap as filler between important stories.

[WindRavenX]

81. Good post

:thumbsup:

I agree completely.

[greccogirl]

74. OH, for god's sake;

how ridiculous have we gotten??

[Infinite Hope]

80. Very ridiculous

Obviously it was a toy and obviously it has no influence on the students other than being just one more prop in the play. It's not going to incite violence nor incite anyone to bring a gun. Give me a break.

[rocktivity]

84. I question the teacher's judgment in carrying it around.

I also the question the judgement of a middle school doing plays which involves the use of a gun in this day and age. If it was indeed found in a theatrical prop box, it should been disposed of.

:headbang:
rocknation