NTSB: Wind Caused Lidle Plane Crash

[dailykoff]

By Daniela Deane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 3, 2006; 4:42 PM

The wind prevented a small airplane carrying New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle from successfully making a U-turn on the East River last month, and the plane smashed instead into a Manhattan high rise, federal investigators said Friday.

The National Transportation Safety Board said the plane carrying Lidle and flight instructor Tyler Stanger was trying to turn around from the middle of the river when the wind forced the aircraft into the 50-story luxury Belaire apartment building on Manhattan's Upper East Side.

Lidle, 34, and Stanger, 26, were both killed in the Oct. 11 crash. The report did not say who was piloting the single-engine Cirrus Sr20 at the time. One person was severely injured on the ground and two people suffered minor injuries, the report said.

The NTSB report said the plane had only 1,300 feet to make the 180-degree turn because the wind blew it over toward the building. To make a successful turn, the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it could have stalled, the report said.

<snip>

Cory Lidle's beneficiaries could lose out on a $1.5 million benefit from baseball's benefit plan if it's determined that he was piloting his plane when it crashed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/03/AR2006110301130.html

.........................
Sorry but I smell a rat.

[Lautremont]

1. You're not saying that Cory Lidle... was a Democrat?!?!?

If so, that sews up the motive for the killing. The bomb that took the plane down was obviously the same kind that got Wellstone. Now all that's left is to follow the money.

[dailykoff]

2. I hadn't thought of that.

What's suspicious is what pulled the plane off its course and into somebody's upper east side window. Pesonally I don't think it was the wind.

As for the motive, it looked like a pre-election 9/11 valentine to remind us all how important the GOP war on terra is.

[robcon]

3. The cause is obvious.

The accident was MIHOP'd. Rove did it.

[jljamison]

4. don't be ridiculous

this is a classic low time pilot type of mistake. Its a tragic mistake for sure, and its terrible for his family. But he wasn't experienced enough to recognize the inherent problem he got himself into, and the CFI that was flying with him was unfamiliar with new york airspace (he was a california CFI). There simply is no reason to think there was any malfeasance.

At the time he started his u-turn, he was basically stuck. His only recourse would have been to declare an emergency and pass through the la guardia airspace for which he might have received a quick clearance, but more likely would have been politely asked to land and call the tower so they could start an FAA enforcement action. He was out of airspace forward, didn't have enough distance laterally to u-turn left or right, and couldn't climb up either. People do this in mountain canyons, for example.

Drive your car at about 140 miles per hour and try and turn around in less than 800 feet.

[dailykoff]

5. So it wasn't the wind?

Or was it the wind that made him pull a U-turn in the first place, and to turn toward Manhattan instead of Queens?

The perfectly reasonable explanations aren't adding up.

[jljamison]

6. the wind was a factor

the wind from the northeast was a factor but not a cause. Had there been no wind, or a wind in the other direction, he might have made the turn. The wind didn't cause the crash. Pilot error caused the crash. The wind was a contributing factor. Rove was not. Sorry...

Don't know why he decided to turn to the left instead of the right. Maybe it was the more scenic direction. I gather he was pretty much in the middle of the corridor so on first glance he might have thought it didn't matter. But a low time pilot might stop at that and not think further, like thinking about prevailing winds, or thinking about turn radius or getting a clearance, etc.

Up in the air you wouldn't necessarily be aware of a light cross wind. A strong cross wind, yes. The stronger the crosswind the easier you can see your path across the ground 'crabbing' relative to the direction of the nose of tha aircraft. For example, in my airplane when I am about to turn towards the runway and there is a strong wind coming down the runway (say 15-20 knots), I might be crabbed 20 to 30 degrees. Or landing in a strong crosswind (again 15-20 knots) you can easily see that your airplane is getting pushed from one side. But when sightseeing like they were, its easy to conjecture they wouldn't notice a light wind. But the light wind still makes their turning radius longer.

Actually the thing that doesn't add up for me is why he impacted the building at about 350 feet, when he should have been flying at or around 800 feet. Perhaps they turned too steeply and stalled. Thats the one thing I'm still waiting for the NTSB to explain, if they'll ever be able to.

When pilots take mountain flying training, they are taught to fly up canyons as close to one side of the canyon as safely possible, and if they need to make a 180 degree turn, to slow down as much as possible. This makes the turning radius smaller. We are also trained in some cases to make chandelle-type turns, which involve climbing and turning at the same time-e.g. the airplane uses the vertical dimension to traverse the turn path and not just the lateral dimension. The climbing also slows the relative movement over the ground. In Lidle's case, they had a regulatory limit of 1100 feet, though he could have busted that limit either with a clearance or by declaring an emergency.

La guardia is a Class B airspace, just like Newark and JFK, and lots of the other big airports (ORD, SFO, DIA, LAX, etc). This means that if you want to fly VFR into the airspace you need to (a) either fly through a VFR corridor, or (b) get a clearance. Getting a clearance requires calling the controlling authority frequency and requesting one. Not only do you have to wait for acknowledgement of your call-up, but you must wait for them to say "cleared into class B". In his case, he might have gotten one right away, or they might have told him to standby and stay clear. But if he had no other option to safely turn around than to bust the airspace, then that is what he had to do. VFR pilots get clearances into Class B airspace all the time.

Now he was in fact in a VFR corridor, except that this particular one is a dead-end and happens to be really narrow. It is mostly designed for helicopters.

I'm guessing that if Lidle were flying with a CFI who was from the area and was familiar with the east river VFR corridor, the CFI would have (a) told him not to enter the corridor, (b) helped him get a clearance, and/or (c) had him fly close to one side and at a slow speed so as to be able to safely make the 180 degree turn.

[jljamison]

7. heres a link to check out

go to www.runwayfinder.com

in the "location" entry field, enter LGA (la Guardia). You'll see in the airspace chart a red bordered region between queens and manhattan. That is now a temporary flight restricted area (due to the accident). Notice how narrow it is up at the northern end.

The TFR now excludes fixed wing aircraft from using the corridor without ATC clearance. Note this still allows helicopters.

[karlrschneider]

11. Good post. I'm guessing he was in the left seat so a turn to the left

would have been a much more natural tendency. And this was apparently a downwind turn that can quickly deceive a pilot with little experience. I don't instruct any more but I always taught 'canyon turns' that you described. As to the 350 foot AGL impact, I wonder if he may have been trying to make a steep
-descending- turn...? (Nothing really wrong with that if you have enough altitude but it's not really
a good way to do what he needed to)

[rsmith6621]

8. Wind blamed for crash that killed Yankees pitcher

http://www.komotv.com/news/national/4560537.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - A stiff wind was cited by federal investigators Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course and into a New York City high-rise on Oct. 11.

The National Transportation Safety Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building.

[seriousstan]

9. I'll bet gravity played a part in this also.

[AlamoDemoc]

10. Someone posted the apartment the plane hit was that of the

same Lady that was hit at the Macy's Parade poll....freak accident, indeed!