Pastor at Haggard's church: 'We stand with him'

[True_Blue]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (CNN) -- As evangelical Christians absorbed the news of the Rev. Ted Haggard's admission he bought methamphetamine -- but did not take the drug -- his church reeled with shock and heartache.

Haggard has led the 14,000-member New Life Church for 21 years.

"The response in our church is sadness and surprise," said the Rev. Rob Brendle, an associate pastor at New Life.

But, Brendle added, "We believe in him and we stand with him."

more....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/03/church.reaction/

[Irreverend IX]

1. ...Because he has pictures of Brendle with that gay hooker.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

134. Exactly.

Does anyone think the guy was ALL ALONE in his proclivities?

I bet they had PARTIES with meth and other...indulgences. I bet there's videotape.

[Erika]

2. OK. So much for that church

Hope his wife and kids will be OK.

[Webster Green]

3. "It's not hypocricy since it wasn't going to be a gay marriage"..Ha!

"Brendle said he sees no hypocrisy in Haggard's actions. "To my knowledge, Mike Jones has not alleged that Ted asked him to marry him... No, I do not see this instance as hypocrisy. I do see it as indiscretion, and I am grateful that Ted is repentant and humble."


OMG! I cannot believe these people.

[Raine]

4. Unbelievable

the BS that they come up! :wow:

[WillParkinson]

5. Well DUH!

They're ALWAYS repentant when they're caught.

Sheesh.

[BootinUp]

17. Its the "evil spirits" defense

If you view the world in black and white you don't try to analyze why someone has succumbed to "evil".

[Vinca]

38. So, Pastor Brendle, does that mean you approve of 1 night stands?? nt

[arewenotdemo]

84. Jones himself said that there were "zero emotions" involved

This could lead to a more comfortable closet for married Repuke/fundy gays.

If a monthly or even weekly session with a buff trainer is all that's required to make life with the wife and kids bearable, thereby preserving the marriage, I can foresee a fitness center next to the Church daycare.

[Lindacooks]

94. Yeah, they're well versed in spinning everything.

Just look at what they do with their 'faith'.

Someone's ill, you pray for them, they get better, God listens!

Someone's ill, you pray for them, they die, it's God's will!

Ta DA!!! We win every time!! No matter what!!

They don't have a single tiny little bit of logical reasoning in their tiny little brains.

[Andrushka]

100. Betty's outraged!

I just checked out the Landover Baptist Church site, and Betty Bowers has a great piece up already that says pretty much what your post talks of...



http://www.bettybowers.com/nl_nov2006.html

[yellowcanine]

119. Heh. Check it out. "Reverend Haggard is a vociferous spokesperson against gay marriage and,

until yesterday, his wife probably had no idea she was actually in one."

Ba da bing! Betty nails it.

[Ecumenist]

6. Oh wow...Why doesn't he just jump out of a window

headfirst, with explosives strapped to him shoulders, a cocked and loaded sawed off shotgun pointed at him head, a pair of poisonous snakes raedy to strike wrapped around his neck, a team of archers with explosive tipped arrows aimed at his heart and a phalanx of flaming pikes waiting for him on the ground... with a running 18 wheeler waiting to finish him off, SHOULD he survive? Because this is exactly what he's doing himself, just at a slightly less spectacular manner. Can you say H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E...Extraordinaire? 'Cuz I can...

[Surya Gayatri]

7. So, just as long as Haggard didn't

"ask Jones to marry him", says the associate pastor, it's all fine. Tacky hotel trysts, cheating on your wife, buying illegal drugs--none of these moral lapses matter. AS LONG AS THE QUEERS CAN'T GET MARRIED !! GAWD, how revolting these people are ! SG

[Kenergy]

8. Another Elmer Gantry n/t

[DeSwiss]

9. It'll be interesting to see.....

....how close they stay to him after November 7th.

maybe he can get a job at Foley's new company....


:P

[truthisfreedom]

10. everyone needs a little methamphetamine in their Evangelical life.

and i mean EVERYONE.

[arewenotdemo]

85. lol

[elocs]

11. One of the foundations of Christianity is forgiveness.

Many here cannot understand that and to them it seems stupid or hypocritical. No matter how many religious leaders fall or stumble, like Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker, Evangelicalism has not collapsed, but has gone forward and grown. Religious leaders will fail again, sometimes spectacularly, but will be forgiven and the church will move on. Inconceivable, but that is the way it is.

[TheWatcher]

13. See Post #12.

It's very simple.

These people have absolutely not one shred of humanity, sanity, logic, or reason.

They are merely parasites sucking the life out of this planet.

[elocs]

56. Anybody who posts and uses the phrase "these people"

has lost a credibility. Christians are not one giant monolith where everybody thinks the same and behaves the same. Try painting with a less broad brush.

[TheWatcher]

76. Oh please, would you spare me.

And if you are going to be snide, try learning how to use grammar properly, so you don't look stupid doing it.

I believe what you were trying to say was:

Anybody who posts and uses the phrase "these people"
Posted by has lost credibility. There is no such thing as "a" credibility, because credibility is not an object.

Point out to me in my post where I made that sweeping generalization.

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, YOU CAN'T. Because it isn't there.

I was speaking about a specific group of people, who are not true Christians in any sense of the word. The sweeping generalization you claim is there exists only i your own mind, because that's what you read into it, and wish it to say. Methinks thou doth protest too much, and assume too much.

Get out of my face with that Bullshit.

Try reading and comprehending a post before having your foot for dinner.

[elocs]

83. Those who use "these people" to cover an entire and diverse group

of people are displaying an ignorance and prejudice by blaming a few people for the actions of a few. Or have you done a survey and know how all Christians feel and believe on any subject or issue? It is like some freeper referring to all Democrats as "these people".

Fortunately there are over 96,000 DUers, so I won't have to be reading anymore of your posts. You may do the same with me so you no longer have to read any of my "Bullshit". X and out.

[TheWatcher]

97. You display the logic of a Freeper with this nonsense you Post.

I did no such thing and you know it. That is what you ignorantly read into it, and now you are attempting to state that my words meant something they did not. You know exactly who i was referring to, and I was not including all Christians in my point.

You know this, yet you continue to assert this nonsense that I never said or implied.

And putting me on Ignore doesn't make you any less full of shit. It makes you a coward who has no ability to continue a discussion or debate, so he runs like the coward he is.

Besides, you should be quiet anyway. It's not nice to talk with your mouth full. Would you like some salt with your feet?

[No Exit]

117. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye

not discern the signs of the times?

[No Exit]

120. I agree! Besides, forgiveness is not yet in order, because neither

Mr. Haggard, nor the evangelical/political movement itself, has yet COME CLEAN.

If/when Mr. Haggard finally quits changing his story and whining, and if/when the evangelical political movement finally starts living by what it claims to be its principles, perhaps--perhaps--forgiveness may be in order. This is the teaching of Christianity: that you must first TRULY repent (come clean) before you can hope for forgiveness. (I get tired of evangelicals, mostly online ones, telling me I don't know as much about Christianity as they do... I went for 12 years to schools where we had DAILY religion classes.)

But not till then.

As for my own feelings: I will forgive the evangelical/political movement (and other republicans)--for helping to foist on us the two murderous criminals, Bush/Cheney--if I feel inclined to do so. Which will probably be around the time hell freezes over.

[POAS]

15. Allow me to quote Paul

in his letter to Titus:

For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

I agree that Christians should be and are forgiving. We witness this merciful spirit often when pastors like Pat Robertson and Ted Haggard speak and boast of their righteousness.

[elocs]

49. Allow me to quote Jesus:

From Matthew 18:21-22
'Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.'

Notice that this admonition has no qualifiers, it just says to forgive.

Matthew 18 continues with the parable by Jesus of the wicked servant who had been forgiven his debts by his king, but who would not forgive the debts owed to him by his fellow servants. When the king found out he punished the wicked servant. As Jesus said in verse 35:
So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.' Again, the admonition is to forgive and is not qualified in any way. Christians are called to forgive and judgment of a religious leader who sins is left to God.

I am not saying that this is right, but it is the way that millions of Christians look at it. There is nowhere in the Bible where Christians or believers are told not to forgive.

[POAS]

51. I don't mean to imply he shouldn't be forgiven, neither

should he be preaching or be followed blindly as many have and will do again.

Why would you want to "trump" Paul anyway? Is Christianity about one upsmanship? I see your Paul and raise you one Jesus.

I was simply making a point about what Paul taught the early Christians about following the wrong teachers.

[elocs]

58. That was meant to be humorous, but since it offends you I edited it out.

Whether he remains a preacher and forgiveness are two different things. Having read the entire Bible and studied it and understand it, I think that Christianity as a whole would do far better to pay more attention to the words and teachings of Jesus than to those of Paul. The world would be a much better place if they did.

[POAS]

95. I agree that with your point that

Christians should pay more attention to Jesus' teachings ahead of the Apostles. I also think that they should pay far more attention to His teachings ahead of the Old Testament. Preachers of Haggard's ilk are more Old Testament than New.

At the risk of defying my own arguement let me quote Paul again from his letter to Titus:

For there are many who refuse to obey; this is especially true among those who say all Christians must obey the Jewish laws. But this is foolish talk; it must be stopped. Already whole families have turned away from the grace of God. Such teachers are only after your money. (Emphasis mine)

[earth mom]

103. What TOTAL Bullshit!

So fundie christians give themselves a free ride to do anything and everything they want-lie cheat steal-because they are to be forgiven for it all-so who gives a fuck?! :wtf:

That kind of logic sure WORKS FOR THEM now doesn't it?! What a load of PURE BULLSHIT! :puke:

WWJD? I'll tell ya. Kick those lying cheating hypocritical bastards to the curb!

Fundies like Teddy boy are no more "christians" than a snake, a shark, a slimy slug or any other creature who has NO conscience! :puke:

[Megahurtz]

122. Here! Here!

:bounce:

You said it all!!!

[No Exit]

116. Since when are evangelicals and their enablers so bound up w/ the N.T.??

It seems to me that in recent years, evangelicals and their admirers emphasize the Old Testament--to the serious detriment of the New Testament.

But now that you've shown a reassuring regard for the New Testament, I assume you will be loving and kindly towards homosexuals, liberals, and those whose politics you may find annoying.

When you get ready to blast back at me, just remember that Jesus advised all Christians to turn the other cheek, and to love thine enemy. Assuming, of course, that you are a practicing Christian.

[searchingforlight]

23. Forgiveness may be a foundation of Christianity but the main

purpose of it is to ** make sure you believe as I believe and then let me show you what a wonderful person I am. *** If Christians were true to their teachings they would share but not force their beliefs on others. The hypocrisy is in the self-righteous attitude that they know what is best for everyone.

[Ian David]

30. What they believe in is not "forgiveness." Don't feed me that crap.

They don't believe in "forgiveness."

They believe in wiping the slate clean once you agree to submit to their authority.

That is not "forgiveness."

Not punishing people who refuse to believe the way you want them to is forgiveness.

Their "forgiveness" is just another weapon in their chisto-fascist arsenal.

Their "forgiveness" isn't a warm fuzzy blanket-- it's a carrot to dangle while they threaten you with the damnation stick.

"You will obey our demands, or you won't get our 'forgiveness,' and you will be damned to Hell."

"Forgiveness" my ass!

[maseman]

31. Great post!

If a person who was an atheist or agnostic was truly sorry for committing the same exact acts as Haggard these church members would be ready to hang that drug-riddled fag in the middle of town square.

[Ian David]

34. It's all about submission, not "forgiveness." n/t

[arewenotdemo]

87. bingo!

The Clinton/Monica witch-hunt was a classic demonstration.

[elocs]

48. I guess I'll feed you whatever crap I like

if it is based upon my opinion and experience. You may disagree with my opinion, but since it is based upon my understanding and experience with Christianity it is not "crap". Based upon what I read in your post, you do not have an understanding of Christianity, but a bad experience with it and a prejudice towards it. Not all Christians are the same and Christians are not all responsible for the behavior and actions of other Christians, but they are instructed by Jesus to forgive and it does not matter if you or I like it or not. (P.S., I am not a Christian and am at best a deist, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but I do know what I am talking about concerning Christianity.)

[TheWatcher]

77. And if you choose to do so, don't expect us not to get in your face

And shove your crap right back in it.

The premise here is NOT all Christians are like this. The people that are being discussed are not true Christians. Get it through your head, will you? They have taken the religion and perverted it.

You may know what you are talking about regarding Christianity, but coming from 4 generations of them, so do I. These people are NOT Christians in any sense of the word.

You may mean well, but your lack of perception here is tiresome.

[Ian David]

96. My apologies. I didn't mean ALL Christians. I meant only the fundie-gelical christo-fascists. n/t

[TheWatcher]

98. He knows exactly what you meant.

He seems to have a habit of inventing his own reality out of other people's points that has absolutely nothing to do with what the original point was about.

Be careful or he'll put you on Ignore.

And THEN where will you be?

That'll show you.

[Ian David]

99. Well, you know...

all christians are like that.

(I'm kidding).

[melnjones]

32. You are right...

The problem though is when we practice forgiveness without accountability. That is where the church is sorely lacking- in accountability for its leadership.

[Blue Gardener]

33. Forgiving is one thing

Condoning the behavior is another.

[Occulus]

46. When you can be a hypocritical asshole six days a week,

and get it all "absolved" on the seventh, it's called condoning the behavior.

PERIOD.

[JNelson6563]

35. This depends

If it is one of their own then forgiveness tends to be forthcoming. I gotta wonder how many of these "forgiving Christians" have managed to forgive Clinton his transgression.

Selective forgiveness is all part of the mental gymnastics required to maintain a world view based on magical thinking.

Julie

[leesa]

41. It's not forgiveness. They refuse to believe it. It's denial.

[progressivebydesign]

43. Forgiveness is not called for here.. and here is why.

FIRST- he is STILL lying.
Second- only God can forgive, unless the people directly harmed are told the truth and asked for forgiveness
Third- They are only standing behind him because they refuse to believe the real story.
Fourth- Seems to me that getting caught is NOT the same thing as begging for foregiveness because you realize you did something wrong.

Amazing how many of these total ripp off religious people beg for forgiveness ONLY after they're caught. I'd be more inclined to forgive if someone was not still lying, if someone didn't wait to get busted.

Sorry, but the entire born-again, evangelical, thing just galls me. As my brother in law, who was a youth pastor.. "yes, it's true. you can live your life completely honorably, helping everyone in your path and you will go to hell if you don't accept jesus as your personal savior. And yes, it's true, a serial killer will go to heaven, if at the last minute before he dies, he accepts jesus".

Sorry.. I just don't want any of that. Doesn't make the world a better place at all.

[elocs]

60. I am sorry that you have so much bitterness concerning Christianity.

I am sure there are thousands here at DU who do not share your contempt for Jesus that you do not even believe his name deserves to be capitalized as the name of any other historical figure. There are millions of people who are not Christians who admire Jesus as a prophet and a great teacher. Forget the rest of the Bible and simply read the words of Jesus and you might be surprised at what a Liberal attitude he had. The world would be much a much better place if Christians heeded and lived the words of Jesus.

[VegasWolf]

62. So where exactly are these "words of Jesus" written??? nt

[elocs]

67. From post #49

From Matthew 18:21-22
'Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.'

Notice that this admonition has no qualifiers, it just says to forgive.

Matthew 18 continues with the parable by Jesus of the wicked servant who had been forgiven his debts by his king, but who would not forgive the debts owed to him by his fellow servants. When the king found out he punished the wicked servant. As Jesus said in verse 35:
So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.' Again, the admonition is to forgive and is not qualified in any way. Christians are called to forgive and judgment of a religious leader who sins is left to God.

I am not saying that this is right, but it is the way that millions of Christians look at it. There is nowhere in the Bible where Christians or believers are told not to forgive.

[VegasWolf]

75. Those are words "about" Jesus. Not "of" Jesus. They were collected by

Constadine hundreds of years after Jesus died in order to consolidate Constadines new Catholic Church. There are no words of Jesus, everything is hearsay, and done for political gain. pretty much, the same as today!

[TheWatcher]

79. Oh, but he is so schooled in Christianity and "knows what he is talking about"

How dare you let the facts get in the way of something so much more relevant?

[elocs]

81. Whether you like or believe it or not,

millions of Christians believe and imperfectly live their lives by the words of the Bible, including the words of Jesus. Forgiveness is an important part of their faith and whether Christianity is real or not is an entirely separate argument and makes no difference to them.

[TheWatcher]

82. But that is certainly not what is being discussed here, and that certainly

Isn't what these people believe. They are sorry they got caught. This isn't about forgiveness, it's about sweeping it under the rug and hoping it will go away.

People like this live the worst kind of double-standard that has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING that was taught in the Bible, and has zero to do with what Jesus taught.

These are fake Christians who practice faith and forgiveness not out of principle, but when it's convenient for their agenda.

Wake up.

[VegasWolf]

90. Oh, I believe it! See my sig line. nt

[greblc]

133. Would you share a pew with him?

I couldn't and won't. I accept Jesus but do not partake in Mass fellowship. Fellowship amongst large numbers of people just seems cold. A necktie or easter bonnet can't hide the bial some "christians" spew. The uglyness of intolerance seeps through even the spiffiest sunday dress. The spiritual leaders of large congragations to me seem like false prophets. Many of them seem to wallow in the spot light. This man was only true to himself. He hurt the faith of others in a way they may never recover from. His deception seems very similar to the Catholic Priest Scandals. Not to equate Homosexuals with pedophiles.

This type of hypocracy is why I feel I can't go to church. How do you forgive "those people" who rob you of your faith? It's a very sad situation.

[Megahurtz]

124. No.

Contempt for Phony-Pseudo-Faux-Fundamentalist-Poser-Christians.

Don't drag Jesus into this.

[lolly]

50. Rather limited view of forgiveness

What it boils down to: Christ forgives people who agree with me.

If you're on my side, pretty much anything you do is absolvable with an "oops! my bad" and a few crocodile tears.

Everybody else . . . not so much. Or have we forgotten how amenable these people were to "forgiving" Bill Clinton for a much lesser (according to their own creed) sin?

[elocs]

53. What is boils down to is that Christ forgives those who ask for forgiveness.

Christians are commanded by Jesus to forgive other believers, period, not qualified in any way. It is highly unlikely that either you or I or anybody else is going to change this no matter how much we may rant and rave about it.

[Webster Green]

57. Seems like these assholes only repent once they are caught..

..with their pants down.

They are sorry they got caught, thats it.

[elocs]

61. Whether they are Christians or not,

most people are sorry they got caught compared to the number who are sorry they did it.

[TheWatcher]

80. This coming from the person who preaches not to make sweeping generalizations

You just made a whopper there yourself.

Care to show me some statistics or documentation to back THAT statement up?

Who's "lost a credibility" now?

But then again, one cannot lose what was never there to begin with.

[lolly]

59. You've proven my point

"Christians are commanded by Jesus to forgive other believers"--i.e., whomever we (or the Christ we've created in our image) officially acknowledge as a fellow Christian.

I forgive people who meet my criteria, who "believe" the same way I do or go to the same church.

Everybody else is, literally, going to hell.

Or, again, are you forgetting how eager these people were to forgive Bill Clinton--a far better Christian, judging by his life works, than Haggard--when he engaged in a lesser sin?

[Webster Green]

52. Ralph!

:puke:

[Richard Steele]

55. But there can be no forgiveness without REPENTANCE.

And no repentance without "honesty", and "accepting responsibility"

Trying to lie and deceive and failing miserably in the attempt
is NOT the same thing as "accepting responsibility".

Lying, twisting & denying do NOT merit that Christian forgiveness.

[daleo]

65. I don't recall much forgiveness being shown to Clinton

Forgiveness is the central tenet of Christianity, but in practice it is too often doled out at the discretion of hypocrites.

[elocs]

78. Which proves that Christians are not perfect.

Might there not be a few hypocrites here among the over 96,000 members at DU, or the millions of the Democrat Party? Is there one person who speaks on behalf of all Democrats, one who pronounces and we all nod our heads and dutifully agree? Christians, even Catholics are no different.

My replies are not a defense of Christianity, but a response to those who seem so bewildered by their concept of forgiveness and consider them to be hypocrites. You are in good company because Jesus also condemned the religious hypocrisy in his time. That Christians are less than perfect or consistent in applying forgiveness, it is no less a major tenet of the faith.

[earth mom]

104. FYI-there are MORE atheists & agnostics & other religions on DU

than christians. :eyes:

p.s. What in the hell is your remark, "even catholics" supposed to mean? Sounds like a fundie put down of catholics who they consider to not be "real" christians. :puke:

[elocs]

106. I meant that even though Catholics do have a central figure

who speaks for them, the Pope, I think that most Catholics in this country do not take all the Pope says as coming from the mouth of God. I have nothing against Catholics and even respect them enough to capitalize their name. One of the biggest problems of the Democratic Party is the contempt they have for all Christians, not just fundamentalists. This is too bad because it appears that Democrats have not only written off the South, but Christians also, and most people in this country are Christians to one degree on another much to the chagrin and disgust of many Democrats here.

I have no way of knowing the religious beliefs of the 96,00+ here at DU, so I am not sure how you came up with this special bit of religious, or non-religious preference. Certainly nobody ever asked me, but FYI I am at best a deist, as were many of our founding fathers. I have passed through Christianity and come out the other side. I have no blanket contempt for all Christians and respect people's religious beliefs and do not look for a reason to get pissed off and offended by Christians. I wonder why you are so upset with an assumed affront towards Catholics when you do not even respect them enough to capitalize their name as well as that of Christians? There are good and bad Christians just as there are good and bad Democrats--pretty much the same as all people.

[earth mom]

109. I don't feel the need to capitalize any religion...

since NO ONE is above any one else. I have no blanket contempt or disgust for any religion except those that serve to push their agenda relentlessly, which is what far too many of the christian faith-mainly fundies-do. I simply do not want to hear one word about ANY religion in regard to politics. A knee jerk reaction to be sure because enough is enough.

That said, my husband, MIL and a few friends are catholics and they are good people, better than most christians I've met. So yes, I'm sensitive to the criticism that goes on about catholics because I know them to be good people. I'm an agnostic and for the record not one of the catholics I know has ever tried to impose their religion upon me, unlike the christians I've known.

FYI-there was a poll done here on DU a short while ago and the results showed that there are not a majority of christians here on DU as people would assume. Which I also believe is true of the U.S. as a whole and thus christians do not represent the majority of democrats or voters as a whole. However because some christians-fundies in particular-are extremely vocal, loud and demanding, their bullying tactics have convinced many in this country that they are the majority and that they must be listened to before everyone else. Why do they not understand that the founding fathers had intended to keep religion and politics separate?! It's unconstitutional to do otherwise.

The reason I have replied to your posts is that you have posted several times on this thread with what looks like support for the fundies and so I find your agenda questionable. Why defend them so vigorously?

[PassingFair]

107. "Democrat Party"

Oh, what a give-away!

:rofl:

Methinks there will be no amount of "forgiveness" for
you around here.

:rofl:

I forgive you, though....

I'm christ-like....

[caledesi]

71. What "brand" of Christianity still can't forgive Clinton? nt

[Joe Bacon]

92. Let's start with Rev Teddy

And Robertson
And Falwell
And Paul Crouch (with the approval of his gay bodybuilder pal)
And Racoon Face Jan
And Pat Boone
And Chuck Smith
And Franky Graham
And James Robinson
And Benny Hill, er Hinn
And the Southern Baptist Convention
And the Assemblies of Gawd
Need I go on?

[caledesi]

102. Great response. I was being sarcastic. nt

[anotherdrew]

108. the Jerry Falwell brand for one n/t

[AntiFascist]

105. I really don't care if Evangelicalism moves forward and grows...

but I certainly hope it changes direction. The real hypocrisy is that people like Haggart have had such a tremendous effect on our President, to the point where he feels that God is telling him to go to war. I may not be much of a model Christian myself, but this is absolutely foreign to the Christianity I was forced to study growing up. It does, however, fit in with certain prophesies about the direction of the church.

[No Exit]

115. Thank you. And I know you forgive Saddam and Osama, too.

Seriously. You do, don't you?

[TheWatcher]

12. I don't see why everyone is so surprised

It's a very simple doctrine with these people.

Rape, Murder, Pedophilia, Molestation, Maiming, Torture, and any heinous crime you can think of are only wrong when someone other than THEM engages in it.

As long as it's a White Republican, there are no laws, no guidelines, no regulations, no checks and balances, and absolutely no limit to the "indiscretions" which can be committed, provided the perpetrator is a White Republican, or a Kool-Aid Drinking Evangelical.

As long as the above apply, they will be "forgiven" and the flock will "stand by them."

You know, I've often said that it is not possible for these people to co-exist with the rest of humanity.

These days, I am not sure I can co-exist with them either.

This country needs an enema.

[Surya Gayatri]

14. As P.T. Barnum knew only too well,

'there's a sucker born every minute'. These "big tent" mega-churches are no more than lucrative circuses--with a barker in the center ring keeping the masses open-mouthed and entertained, hawking sin and sincerity. SG

[mitchum]

16. I prefer "there's a sucker born again every minute"

[Surya Gayatri]

19. LOL ! (rim shot, drum roll) n/t

[Tellurian]

18. Oh, but the most important thing is the $$$$$$$

each family has pledged a % of their collective income to the church on a monthly/weekly basis.
They cannot fail to honor that pledge. f they do, they had better have a good reason for doing so!

Ostracization is always a redeeming factor..

[Surya Gayatri]

20. Yeah, like I said...

a circus, where "you pays your money & you gets your show...or you gets hustled out of the tent". One of the most lucrative money spinning operations in the world - flogging eternal salvation and its antithesis. Pastor Ted is only the latest in a long line of very wily exploiters of the human propensity for self-delusion. SG

[Tellurian]

24. Yep, the old 'hustling out of the tent' trick...

the heavy hammer of being publicly shamed and embarrassed in your own neighborhood.
Always works to keep those Church goers in line and the interruption of ca$h flow at low risk.

[opihimoimoi]

21. ICE, The most dangerous drug in America...AKA Meth...the stuff Hitler was on.

This drug is ruining America

Highly addictive....

Leaves Holes in the Brain....look it up....

Impairs the thinking process...

Brendle will stand by the paycheck, even tho it means standing by Ted as well.

[rosesaylavee]

22. If Ted is addicted to this stuff

and doesn't go in for help, he will simply die. Will his ego allow him to admit to it and get off the stuff?

[opihimoimoi]

72. Heavens knows....Meth rehad has about a 16% success rate

Most eventually go back on the stuff.

[rosesaylavee]

91. Knew it was hard to quit but didn't know that rate

was so low. Ted is in trouble if he doesn't fess up right now and get help.

[Realityhack]

127. The rate varies with the quality.

those exposed to high purity Meth have lower success at kicking the habbit.

Frontline did an excelent peice on Meth. You can see the entire episode online.

[rosesaylavee]

132. I saw most of that program but

had to walk away before it ended - too intense and too sad sad sad.

[0007]

25. The church of life brings us all things, 'eh? The sheeple will follow

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/11/03/tedhaggard_wideweb__470x352,0.jpg
...if not Teddy bear Haggard..

..junior comes highly recommenced

[rpannier]

26. To be fair...

I would hope that they would stand by him.
One of the tenents of Christianity is forgiveness, another is "No one is without sin."
So, I would expect them to stick with him.

As to Bishop Methman (he joins my pantheon of comic super villians along with Capt. Oxicotin), "He's a f**king worthless piece of sh*t. He has used hate and fear to divide and demonize people. I hope his wife divorces him, he finds himself penniless flipping burgers in McDonald's."

Anyone who says "Bishop Methman is a godly man." or "Is a good man." I hope winds up joining him working there.

Bishop Methman is NOT a good man or a godly man -- unless your god is Satan, Bhaal or Loki.

[jarab]

37. I would expect them to stand by him.

We on the left should know what it's like to stand alone (JK).

...O...

[Betty]

27. he bought the drug but did not take it

reminds me of "didn't inhale". But I'm sure his loving church members had a different response to "didn't inhale" and I am sure it was not so forgiving.

[TheCowsCameHome]

28. Notice he didn't say "stand in front of him"

Safety first, Bob.

[Hoping4Change]

47. lolol

:spank:

[Ian David]

29. Damn. I love it when they say, "I stand BEHIND him."

It makes is much easier to make jokes with sexual innuendo.

[Thor_MN]

36. You stand with him? Well, hand over the cash and bend over...

The power of delusion is strong in this one.

[leQ]

39. he was on the Today Show this morning, and he had credibility as

far as i could see. he may have been nervous at the time he took the lie detector, but everything he said was believable. and being a gay man, i could see a lying queen a mile away. this wasn't one of 'em.

[Zenlitened]

40. Headline I'd like to see someday: "Pastor, parishioners: We've learned from this."

"We're better people now, more humane, more understanding of others, more inclined to listen than to accuse and excoriate."


Ain't I the dewey-eyed optimist? :eyes:

[lolly]

54. Optimistic

Zenlitened imagines them saying:

We're better people now, more humane, more understanding of others, more inclined to listen than to accuse and excoriate.

That sounds like something a Christian might say.

In other words, you can forget about hearing it from these people.

[Zenlitened]

93. Irony alert: I'm one of those "militant atheists" you hear about!

:spray:

[54anickel]

66. Would be a beautiful day....also a damned cold one in Hell. I would

love to see the same thing Zenlitened. Of course that would take "repentance" and "reconciliation" - shit, these people can't even begin to imagine taking that step with other denominations of the same damned faith! They are too hung up on their own "justification" crap....they reinterpret that to mean their actions, no matter how "unchristian", are justified. Onward Christian soldier and all that shit. :eyes:

[progressivebydesign]

42. He's a cash cow for them... I'm waiting for a Swaggart moment from him soon...

..oh, I have sinned... crying, wife behind him. Anything to keep that money flowing.

[Divine Discontent]

44. "I have lusted over the flesh"

I can hear him too.... sigh. and then he'll go get "counseling" from the exgay movement (who wayne besen fights daily) and be up there in a few months slamming gays right to be married and have the state & federal protections that come from that matrimony.


I don't hate, but I get so sick of these twisted church congregations that damn well know that some of their people are gay, but don't allow them to be outwardly but if they can "control" it, then everything's fine fine fine... THAT'S WHY THESE GUYS GO AND GET PROSTITUTES PEOPLE - WAKE UP PARISIONERS!


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[malaise]

69. Expect it tomorrow from the pulpit

I hope there is live coverage somewhre since I've stocked up on popcorn.:popcorn: :rofl:

[springhill]

45. Kind of like his support for Bill Clinton...........

and his indiscretions, I'm sure. If it's a republican it's sad, if it's a democrat it's sick.

[NoodleyAppendage]

63. And the lemmings continue to follow their idiot cloud god leaders off the cliff...

Once again we see STRONG evidence of the psychological defense mechanism of denial in christofascists faced with uncertainty and the hypocracy of their leaders. Somewhere in Colorado their are 14,000 idiots willing to jump off a cliff for anything...if King Chimp is looking to jumpstart his theocracy, then look no further than Colorado Springs.

And, yes, if my ridicule of fundamental Xtians makes me "elitist," then so be it. If "elitist" means being decerning enough not to blindly follow power, then count me among those villified by the rubes.

J

[VegasWolf]

64. "we'uns r standing with Pastor Ted, he's a good'un and talks to Bush and

says bad things bout them homo sexuals and stuff like that!"

[hayu_lol]

68. I wonder if the church(lololol)has...

cancelled his credit cards and taken away his private jet? Just asking.

[MODemocrat]

74. So they call it talking now?

That would make about enough for a talking threesome by the time the reverand gets there.

[Neshanic]

70. We interupt this Evangelical Homosexual moment tp support

our man Haggard. This is just a bump in the road to our goal of being in every bedroom, telling others how to live their lives, have Jesus camps to indoctrinate our young, getting power in the government by any means possible, and making gays the whipping point of everything we do.

Of course they stand with him, and he will be replaced with another Christo-facist borg. Don't worry they make more.

Feel sorry for him? No.

This inane need for some to forgive poeple that do not even admit to doing a great wrong. By throwing their forgiveness to a person like Haggard cheapens and demeans one of possibly the most noble and beautifull of human actions, the act asking for true forgiveness, and then getting it.

Stop forgiving someone who has no intention of owning up, or doing the right thing. It's sickening beyond comprehension.

[MODemocrat]

73. Every time a hypocrite gets caught, they find solace in the bible

At the very least, Ted Haggard's a liar, which goes against his preachings to his choir. He changed or faked his name when he called for his massage and/or drugs, and if he threw the drugs out after he bought them, then why did he keep going back? I have absolutely no pity for a damned hypocrite; such as the no good holier-than-thou republicans who pretended to be such family values people while impeaching my beloved president. All the while, those screwballs were having their affairs, and using taxpayer money to pay their concubines salaries.

He preached the bible, so he should have followed his own teachings. Instead he preached that his
followers do what he SAID, not what he DID. :puke: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Lyric]

86. I'm just waiting for Haggard to announce that

he's going into rehab. :yoiks:

That seems to be the trend for the fallen angels of the right these days. :)

[Wise Doubter]

88. I call BULLSHIT !! If he "threw it away" - Why then is there a voice mail

asking for MORE stuff. About $200.00 worth of MORE? !


Cleaning up the drug world $200.00 at a time. :wtf:

[SKKY]

89. At least to me, this is like when Clinton said he didn't inhale...

...I mean really, come on! Who goes to a hooker for meth and a massage, and doesn't get a little freaky? Hmmm?

[Joey Liberal]

101. Hypocrites

[Zambero]

110. Haggay will be receiving "spiritual rehabilitation"

The sinner will be directed onto a righteous straight path. Praise the Lord!
He could even be the next Jimmy Swaggart. Oops, Jimmy had a bit of a relapse, didn't he?

Death and hellfire to abominable sinners!

[KansDem]

111. "PASS THE METH!!!"

...before you throw it away, of course.

[VegasWolf]

112. "We stand with Pastor Teddy, just not at the urinal!!!" nt

[LeftHander]

113. bullshit....

I will put money on that if he walked in that church the vast majority of members wouldn't want to be near him...

[yellowcanine]

114. Indiscretion??? No, Mr Brendle, an "Indisretion" is when one "slips up" ONCE.

Carrying on a three year relationship with a prostitute and using drugs on several occasions is not an "indescretion". It is a conscious attempt to live a double life of deceit. And where did Ted Haggard get the money for the sex and drugs, Mr. Brendle? Can he account for that? Until he can, I think you should withold judgement on just how "repentent" he has been. So far he has only "owned up" to the things he can't deny because there is too much contrary evidence. How much more is out there you don't even have an inkling about nor do you seem to be very curious about either? Is there a special reason for that lack of curiosity, Mr. Brendle? Maybe you have things to be "repentant and humble" about also? Hmmm?


"Brendle said he sees no hypocrisy in Haggard's actions. "To my knowledge, Mike Jones has not alleged that Ted asked him to marry him... No, I do not see this instance as hypocrisy. I do see it as indiscretion, and I am grateful that Ted is repentant and humble."



So because he didn't try to marry the guy there is no hypocrisy? Ok then. Glad THAT is cleared up.

[BigDDem]

118. Maybe he can hook up

with Mark Foley in rehab.

[Megahurtz]

121. Some of these Idiots would just go along with anything. n/t

[VegasWolf]

123. Wonder if that fool in the audience realized his ten dollar "tithe" was going

to buy meth and gay sex?

[CGrantt57]

125. 'We stand with him'

"We just don't stand in front of him and bend over, yanno?"

(sorry...couldn't resist...)

[VegasWolf]

129. Great minds think alike!!! I didn't see your post first!

:toast:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

126. As long as you apologize , call yourself a sinner, and Jesus this, Jesus that blah blah blah

You can get away with anything.

[superconnected]

131. Has he even done that yet? It seems like he keeps lying and denying

and it's slowly being extracted from him as things like pictures surface.

Is he willing to take a drug test?

If he's drug free it should be no problem.

[VegasWolf]

128. "We stand with him, just not in front of him, especially NOT in front and bending

over to pick something up! Other than that, we stand with him, not too closely mind you!"

[superconnected]

130. Excellent. They'll accept gays now!

No more of that gay bashing and the Bible says you're going to hell crap.