Gayle Haggard's letter to New Life Church

[True_Blue]

Dear Women of New Life Church,

I am so sorry for the circumstances that have led me to write this letter to you today. I know your hearts are broken; mine is as well. Yet my hope rests steadfastly in the Lord who is forever faithful.

What I want you to know is that I love my husband, Ted Haggard, with all my heart. I am committed to him until death "do us part". We started this journey together and with the grace of God, we will finish together.

If I were standing before you today, I would not change one iota of what I have been teaching the women of our church. For those of you who have been concerned that my marriage was so perfect I could not possibly relate to the women who are facing great difficulties, know that this will never again be the case. My test has begun; watch me. I will try to prove myself faithful.

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326185&secid=1

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[olddad56]

2. I wonder if she would stick around if...

There wasn't a ton of money at stake. Got to love that 'stand by your man' mentality.

[Shipwack]

6. Just to play Devil's Advocate...

There are other woman who have endured far worse in a marriage even when all concerned are dirt poor. Sometimes faithfulness is just that.

Now having said that, I don't know and will not speculate on her true motivations. She could be anything from a saint to a gold digging harridan; I don't think any of us here know enough to make a claim for sure.

There's enough blatant evil in the world to waste. any energy on guessing for ulterior motives for a woman with little true power to affect most of us.

[Erika]

8. Hey, she's the one who wrote the letter

She did not go quietly into the night. Her $ demands in the divorce papers have just increased.

[Ezlivin]

10. I don't kick sheep when they stumble

None of us know her; she may be a fine woman with peculiar beliefs in the supernatural.

I believe she will do everything in her power not to question her faith one bit. She can't not believe.

And that's a pity.

[colorado_ufo]

24. Her picture was hugely displayed across the front page

of the Rocky Mountain News on Saturday, riding in a car along with her ever-grinning husband and their two young sons - who glared defiantly at the media's invasion of their family's privacy and their mother's pain.

That woman's face broke my heart. This situation would be devastating enough in the sanctuary of most people's homes, but there it all is, for the world to see. She has done nothing to deserve this. If her faith gets her through this nightmare, so be it; it is infinitely better than drowing the problem in alcohol, drugs, violence, or any number of other non-solutions.

Time for all of us at DU to send out compassion.

[pnwmom]

41. I agree, colorado. I feel nothing but compassion for

the mother and their children.

[The Stranger]

52. What makes you think she didn't already know about her husband?

[Shipwack]

73. I don't... which is why I refuse to pass judgement one way or the other... nt

[The Stranger]

80. I don't know who is "passing judgment" (pass the salt while you're at it),

but if she knew what was going on, they probably had an "arrangement."

Why the pity party for her?

[pnwmom]

83. What makes you think she knew?

Lots of people in "mixed orientation" marriages are completely in the dark. And by the look on her face in the video, I think she was one of them -- one of the unaware spouses -- and that she's still in shock.

http://www.straightspouse.org/

[Shipwack]

88. ::passes salt:: :) nt

[LetsGoMurphys]

14. In a divorce she would get plenty n/t

[pnwmom]

40. They have five young children to take care of.

She went to Oral Roberts and she believes what she was taught -- that her husband succumbed to temptation, not that he is gay. I'm not surprised that she's sticking by him . . . for now.

[hwmnbn]

3. Face the reality, Gayle....

It's the only way.

The truth shall set you free. But first it's gonna piss you off!

[wholetruth00]

27. I feel sorry for this woman (photo). Her plight is one of many in the

hypocritical world of many evangelicals Christain right. Several years ago, the pastor of a well-known RW church in Rockville, MD was exposed as an AIDS stricken victim and the entire church, which was popular and well-respected in the area and a frequent Focus on the Family guest, collapsed. The pastors wife and family was so crushed. It was so sad.

It's just so sickening. I feel particularly saddened for the wives and family members of these sick, sick men who are able to garner wealth, fame, and power pretending to be more moral than the rest of us and making it more and more difficult for many of us to live peaceful lives in our communities.

photo: http://alumniweb.oru.edu/oru%20alumni/right137.html

[Bucky]

38. She cut her deal when she saw him making millions under the banner of Jesus & stayed quiet.

If you talk a good Jesus, but live like Herod, how good are you at fitting thru the eye of a needle?

[pnwmom]

42. She's a graduate of Oral Roberts, which most likely means

that she grew up with parents just like this. In their brand of Christianity, simply believing in Jesus trumphs everything. And wealth is a sign of God's blessing.

[Dune]

53. Amen

Right on the money.

[Erika]

4. Wow. What a masochist.

She's teaching other fundie women? EEEEw/

[Straight Shooter]

5. Your test has begun?

She thinks God is testing her. :eyes:

[Erika]

7. These fundies are really weird

Here's a guy that took money from the gullible to build a mega church and who has been serviced by a male prostitute and who has purchased meth. Wow.

She knew nothing? Sure.

[Straight Shooter]

9. There are none so blind

as those who will not see.

[Bucky]

39. Then it's time to bone up for the exam, Mrs Haggard

[54anickel]

11. Did you check out the linked article on that page?

Across Colorado Springs, churches respond to scandal

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326194&secid=1

The Presbyterian worried aloud Sunday about the future of Christianity.

The evangelical said he had sin in his heart, too. The Episcopal said nothing at all.

And the pastor of the predominantly gay church invited Ted Haggard to join.

Around Colorado Springs, church leaders dealt with the Rev. Ted Haggard’s fall from New Life Church’s pulpit in ways as different as their theologies.

more....

[Bluerthanblue]

12. give the woman a break for a change... I am so sick

of people condemning the wives of men who screw up- and screw around-

I stuck up for Hillary when Bill had his wife and daughter dragged through the shit with him- And I'm not overly fond of Hillary- But she didn't just walk out on him and say f---k you. She could have, and had every 'right' to- even 'biblicly'- but she didn't, and people said exactly what is being said here about her.

Let's let this be about what the MAN did- and how he handles himself in the wake of his exposure.

I admire the class that the Clintons showed after their worldwide humiliation.

Aren't WE supposed to be the 'party' that is DIFFERENT???? The party of TRUE compassion and tolerance? or is that only for 'our own'????

I'm ashamed of this thread. Give the woman a chance to let this all sink in- and stop looking at her as a money hungry whore-

fie on this-
shame on us.

[LetsGoMurphys]

15. Good post n/t

[Erika]

16. You insult women when you allow her to be the status quo

She should have known, she should have acted. If she had any type of relationship with her husband, there should have been intervention.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. shoulda, woulda, coulda, it's all

so easy from the outside.

I AS A WOMAN am insulted by those who make the claim that a woman who doesn't walk when her spouse fails her is either 'deluded' 'money grubbing' or any other slur-

Yeah, intervention would have been a help- But Pastors of churches are answerable to their Deacons and Elders- And in Fundie churches oftentimes those positions are NOT available to 'women'-

Again, I say, cut the woman some slack- There are five innocent children hanging in the balance here- Five kids who have to live with shame that doesn't belong to them-

I wouldn't have stayed- I didn't stay -for reasons that went far beyond my husbands betrayal- YET- I cannot condemn a person for not walking out on their spouse when their spouse screws up- in this case, royally.

I saw an interview with this family on TV- when the husband said "I had a massage" his wifes head whipped around like she had just been slapped- I believe she was clueless- And I don't hold her responsible for keeping her husband 'in check'-

Hillary should have known too according to you- and SHE should have interviened- Did you condemn her for her position or for staying married to Bill?

So easy to judge from the comfort of our own velvet cushons.

sorry, but this attitude really stinks-

[donheld]

34. I'm sure at this stage this woman has no idea what she's saying

She's in a state of extreme shock. She's had her whole world yanked out from under her. She's had to absorb a great deal of shock the last week, and she received the shock in little bits and pieces and Ted slowly fessed up. She has heavy dicisons she has to make, and like you say she has 5 children to think about to. None of us can say what we'd do in her shoes.

I agree with you, the attitude of some here really does stink.

Would any of us want to trade places with her right now?

[MissMillie]

51. well said

I'm sorry you had such problems. You seem to have managed to keep a healthy attitude.

[crim son]

66. It is precisely because of the five children that this woman

must face up to her reality. Children learn from their parents what is good and acceptable behavior. Staying with a homosexual man says that she doesn't respect herself and doesn't believe she has the right to happiness. It also says that she cares more about propriety than her husband's happiness and fulfillment. I've known people who stay in bad marriages because they believe it's the right thing to do, thus dooming their children to lifelong unhappiness instead of the relatively transitory unhappiness experienced when parents divorce (IF the divorce is not horribly acrimonious - that may well be another story). I feel for this woman and I don't condemn her, yet. But her husband is gay and she will never be the object of his desire or the light of his life in the sense that she should be, as his true wife. This is what makes me sad for her, and for him. Perhaps she believes she will have her reward in an afterlife. I don't know.

[closeupready]

68. If she truly believes the crap that he was merely tempted,

and that gayness is a "lifestyle", not an immutable characteristic, then maybe she thinks its her job to change him, to "straighten him out".

It's a self-imposed sort of hell.

[crim son]

74. That it is.

And maybe, to her, leaving would present to her the greater difficulty. Some people are not strong, children, husband or wife be damned.

[pnwmom]

75. Most couples in "mixed orientation" marriages, according

to Amity Pierce Buxton, end up separating . . . eventually. But some are still married a few years later. I think this woman is in shock. It's going to take some time for her to process what's happened. And her decision may also depend on what her husband does now. It could be that the relief of being outed will be so great that he doesn't end up going through with his religious "rehab." He could be the one to give up on the marriage first.

http://www.straightspouse.org/

[crim son]

78. Very interesting link - thanks!

I know I'd be shocked, were I in her position. And I know that I'd probably still love my husband as much as I did before the revelation that he was gay, though maybe differently. It is terribly sad to know that these doomed marriages could be avoided if it weren't for homophobia and the condemnation of the gay lifestyle by too many people in this country/world. I just hate it.

[pnwmom]

82. you're welcome. I guess I shouldn't be surprised,

since I've seen everything here on DU, but I am disappointed that so many people are so harsh in their judgment of this woman. This couple met at Oral Roberts University -- so they both came from families where they learned their beliefs -- and have been married since they were 22. Watching her reactions on TV, I think she was shocked at this whole thing. It's torn apart the foundation of her marriage and of her whole life, really. What a blow.

[diamidue]

79. exactly

This church has been the woman's life for the past 20 years. Her entire social network; her daily routine. And many religions do not exactly encourage women to be independent, but rather to obey their husbands.

[donheld]

33. Oh Please!

Walk a mile in this woman's shoes. Some of us can hide it awfully well.

[pnwmom]

48. She should have known? You insult all women

who have unknowingly been married to philandering husbands.

[RamboLiberal]

20. Good Post - If we condemn this woman for sticking by

Haggard, then we condemn Hillary for sticking by Bill.

IMHO as far as their marriage it's none of my business.

Personally I'd walk, but that's me.

In a way I feel sorry for her. And I hope her hubby didn't bring her any STD's. Anyone who's fooling around outside the marriage brings that risk to their spouse. And I'd bet Mike Jones may not have been Haggard's only outside partner.

[Vorta]

23. I don't condemn her for sticking by her husband (though I doubt that she will in the long run)

I condemn them both for sticking by their commitment to what they have done behind the mask of religion.

[raccoon]

58. At least she'd better get herself tested for STD's. nt

[Vorta]

22. I view Mrs. Haggard and Mrs. Clinton quite differently.

Mrs. Haggard is a party to her husband's efforts to promote hate and discrimination in this country. It is the reason we even know who she is. She is a social hooligan.

[aquart]

31. She is a wife who thought she was honored and beloved.

She had five children by a man who wants men. FIVE CHILDREN. That's a commitment. Did you see what she said about a perfect marriage? She's in shock. Her husband has been dangerously dishonest with her. He could have brought home any disease including AIDS. I don't think she's begun to take it in.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

36. agreed. The stuff that she and he spew is vile, clothed in a fake message

of love. Only their path is the right one, and others beware. Remember, she marched with him when they forced unbelievers to sell their homes and move out of town. Can you imagine anything worse in a civil country? Forcing people to move out because of different beliefs? HItler's goons did that at first before they turned to violence to speed the process.

She was not only complicit, she willingly joined in and washed the brains of others.

I have no sympathy for her at all. And it looks like they hired a decent PR firm to start their rehab campaign.

[malaise]

62. I agree with you 100%

I have no sympathy for hypocrites.

[pnwmom]

44. good post, bluerthanblue

Women in her position suffer a lot.

[mondo joe]

59. She's condemned for her own choices and acts, not his.

She's as much a fundy oppressor as he is.

[Recursion]

70. OTOH, admiring this kind of masochism...

...just reinforces the message too many women are getting that they have to put up with abusive and destructive behavior from men.

It's unfair, but it seems true that men will continue to be asshats as long as women reward them for it. Maybe we need some Lysistrata-type action here.

[TlalocW]

13. From another part of the letter

This whole ordeal must ultimately be placed on my shoulders. Yes, it is my fault for letting myself go so that Ted was so easily tempted into such an ungodly lifestyle. All I can do now is ask for God's and your forgiveness and order, "Thinner Thighs in 30 Days," from Amazon.com and hope that I will never cause something like this to happen again.

(Or at least it should be according to one Seattle pastor who says pastor's wives letting themselves go can lead the hubbies to look elsewhere)

TlalocW

[upi402]

26. blechh! blechh! blechh! blechh!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[pnwmom]

45. She didn't write that, and the joke isn't funny.

And the Seattle pastor was disgusting.

[crim son]

64. The joke may not be funny,

but it is hard to imagine that she hasn't had any thoughts of how she has failed her husband and what she must do to keep him once again from temptation.

[macKenzie_1313]

17. reply

Why do we women stick up for our men even when they're cheating and lying on us? :rant:

[Bluerthanblue]

19. for the same reason any human

doesn't throw away a relationship easily.
We all are going to screw up, wound, and let down someone sometime in our lives- If we are fortunate, we will recieve more forgiveness than we deserve- and we will learn, and be humbled by the faithfulness, kindness, and mercy that we are shown, and look to extend that to others.
This woman may indeed find the best and only ultimate choice for her is to leave her spouse- but it is HER decision- and she shouldn't be shat upon by 'caring Democrats' for not behaving in an instinctual, impulsive manner, that satisifies OUR outrage.

This isn't a 'woman/man issue' either- Many men stick out bad situations too- It is a human condition.

And my heart goes out to the children especially-
They are colleratal damage in situations like this.

(and Welcome to DU)
Sorry it's with a thread like this-
blu

[Hekate]

21. Thanks Bluer -- I also think this woman deserves our compassion

She and her children have done nothing wrong -- she has done nothing to deserve our scorn. They are all going to be suffering in the days and years ahead -- let's not make it worse.

Hekate

[boilinmad]

65. Actually, I do think she has done something wrong...

....she sat by as her hypocritical husband spewed hatred and judged people. Imagine all the gay teens that suffered because of Haggards hatred. What I find most amazing, is the rationale these "Christians" use. They spend their whole lives judging people, and then when theyre discovered to be the terrible people they really are, they have the nerve to say, like so many of the followers i have heard, "Its not for us to judge Reverend Haggard, thats for Jesus alone." Also, this issue, like the Foley one, are NOT about homosexuality, and im getting sick and tired of the Republican party, as well as the press, making it so. It is 100 percent about HYPOCRISY. Thats why there shouldnt even be a comparison between this and the Clintons. I dont recall ever seeing President Clinton on a soapbox condemning others about the evils of extra-marital sex and its reward of life in the fiery furnace of hell. People that live in expensive, sheep financed GLASS HOUSES should refrain from throwing stones. All of the participants, excluding the poor children that have to live amongst these idiots, are fair game. Thats my rant, and im stickin' to it!!!:rant:

[krispos42]

69. Both sexes do it

Lord knows I did after I found out my wife cheated on me and wanted a divorce. "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you".... nine months after our only son was born after a 2-year struggle with infertility (hers, not mine).

I tried to hold it together, but it takes two people to want that for it to happen.

And she was the daughter of an evangelical SBC Baptist minister, so it was even more surprising that it came from the 'family values' crowd. Especially with some of the shit her parents pulled to try to a) take our son out of our care, and b) keep us from moving away after the false accusations to the state were proven unfounded.

Worst of all, I got an "I told you so" from my Mom...

[upi402]

25. LOL -she's TEACHING???? women on marriage

That is one sick relationship if she didn't know he liked men and did meth. One or the other would be possible to hide, but the relationship would be far from perfect.

Now she's still acting like the psychologist who's on the wrong damn side of the table...

[leftofthedial]

28. besides, breaking in a new crank dealer

can be a real bitch

[Lindacooks]

29. Better schedule some STD tests, Gayle.

And quit being so effing judgmental. It's about time you got your comeuppance.

[depakid]

30. I'm not sure what the woman is supposed to say...

I but know full well what she ought to do- and that's to divorce his deceptive ass.

This bit of martyrdom isn't going to do her any good.

[CJCRANE]

32. This is different to Clinton

because if Haggard is gay then his marriage was a sham from the start and still is.

[shirlden]

35. Haggard is not gay.

He is quite obviously bi-sexual. Some experts say that being bi is the norm for all of us or should be. The problem here, of course, is that old devil called hypocrisy. The wife is an adult and can do as she damn well pleases. I have no particular compassion for her or disdain. However, what he has done to his children does concern me. For them, this bleeding heart librul is doing some serious bleeding.

[pnwmom]

47. Not true. He could easily be gay.

Whether you are gay or bi has more to do with preference than performance. My father fathered several children before divorcing my mother. (Including miscarriages, my mother was pregnant seven times.) His preference was always with men, but social pressures kept them together till he was about Haggard's age. Once he acknowledged he was gay, he never looked back.

He had dozens of friends in similar situations.

[CJCRANE]

50. I'm only guessing

from personal experience, where the handful of gay men I've known where "straight" (with girlfriends etc) when I met them and later came out. They all admitted they had been living a lie and were much happier in their new life.

But of course you could be right, I'm no expert in the field of human emotions, just guessing from anecdotal evidence.

[mondo joe]

60. "Obviously bi-sexual"? Uh, no.

You don't know his orientation, other than he's not hetero.

Many totally gay men have married women and fathered children.

[krispos42]

72. And every gay person comes from hetero sex

I heard about a study that came out a few months ago, I think it was done in Sweden or some other Scandanavian country, where the erotic centers of the brain were turned on by different stimuli. Strait men were turned on by women, and gay men were turned on by other men. They had CAT scans or EEGs or something showing the same part of the brain getting fired up by stimuli.

It's almost certainly genetic, and since we haven't been slaughtering gays at swordpoint for a fair while now, this attempt at genetic "purification" is of course failing. Combined with widespread social acceptence of homosexuality, which encourages a lot of people to come out of the closet, and you have more acknowledged gays running around than in quite a while.

[momster]

37. She hasn't just lost a marriage....

she's lost a career (look at the books they've written together or apart), an identity (Mrs. Perfect Pastor), and her crutch (because a woman in a marriage based on their principles isn't supposed to think and act autonomously, without reference to her Lord and her master on difficult issues). She now has two choices -- throw it all away to start fresh with new ideas or cling desperately to what little pieces she can salvage from the wreckage. Looks like she's chosing to cling. I can't really blame her. It's very frightening to create a whole new direction for herself -- especially when she believes this is all a 'test' from on high. (Pride goethe before a fall and all that jazz).

I only hope somebody is counseling those 5 kids -- someone besides mummy and daddy. Someone with a degree and not just in pastoral counseling.

[xchrom]

43. it's her life -- she can do and say as she pleases.

she's made it this far with no critical help from me -- she can go the rest of the way without it as well.

[JerseygirlCT]

46. She's completely responsible

for her ugly teachings. And on that count, no one should excuse her, regardless of current circumstances.

She is not at all responsible for those current circumstances, however. She will be tested. Who knows, perhaps she will actually meet the test and we'll see a change? Redemption is always possible, no?

[0007]

49. Andrea Yates comes to mind......

Many similarities between the Yates and the Haggard's.

Both families had five children and belonged to Fundy religions.

Except one cut 'n run

[Coventina]

54. These people are zombies, under complete control of their masters.

I know, because I used to go to one of these churches and was a true believer.

She doesn't need our "mercy" or "compassion" right now. She doesn't even know what she is feeling.

Who (in their right mind) could even write a letter like that, just having gone through what she has? She has been so deeply programmed that her reactions are purely based on what is good for her church.

[flordehinojos]

55. saving face?

i assure you that i would not be so gracious to my husband if ...and, quite frankly, i think that normal human reaction would be not to be so kind and generous to such a scumbag of a husband.
that is only my humble opinion--i may be wrong as i realize people have other opinions and ways of dealing with difficult situations.

trust that is broken is difficult to repair.
love that is betrayed is hard to forgive.
a world that has been turned upside down is not easy to rightsideup.

[goforit]

56. So sad. Looking for the big prize in heaven by sticking with the cheater.

[leQ]

57. the Lord is faithful? what planet is she on? (nt)

[superconnected]

61. in other words: this is all Satans fault. Please send donations.

:nopity: :puke:

[donsu]

63. why would you stay married to someone who has betrayed you?

all those years living with a fraud

bearing and rearing a fraud's children

[superconnected]

76. because she's a fraud too so she doesn't mind.

[0007]

86. I wonder if the children will be so forgiving?

[pnwmom]

77. She's still in a state of shock, judging by her face in

the video. Who knows what she, or they, will decide in the end.

But it is possible to still love someone who has hurt you, especially when you feel compassion for their struggle. Some people in mixed-orientation marriages attempt to stay together even after the gay spouse comes out, especially when there are young children involved.

http://www.straightspouse.org/

[Miss Chybil]

67. If he beat her with a stick would she still have to be "faithful?"

How much more damage to her could he have done to her like that, than what he has actually done? Maybe, she always knew and just likes the money... Yes, I'm cynical. We'll see how faithful she remains with the bank accounts run dry.

[saigon68]

71. Beaten with an Ugly Stick

LOL

[saigon68]

81. she's married to a deviant

[Duncan Grant]

87. Ted Haggard is a 'deviant'?

Is that the word you use for all men who betray their wives or is it just for the ones who do it with other men?

[shanti]

84. a martyr.....

how special...:eyes:

[VegasWolf]

85. So god is personally testing her "faith" by making her husband gay! Good

work god, that should really test her belief in you! If you really want to test her, make her ride in coach instead of the leather seats of their private jet, that should really do it! Also, the vacation homes, don't forget about those! and the minks!! Plenty of test suff here.