Saddam will be hanged 'by end-January'

[G_j]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2440186,00.html

Times Online November 06, 2006

Saddam will be hanged 'by end-January'

By Ned Parker of The Times in Baghdad


The former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein will be hanged by the end of January, a senior member of Nouri al-Maliki’s Dawa party predicted today as an around-the-clock curfew kept the lid on sectarian violence after the deposed dictator was sentenced to death.

"I don’t think it will drag on beyond January of next year," said MP Haider al-Abadi, who is a confidant to the Iraqi Prime Minister.

The 69-year-old strongman was sentenced to death yesterday for ordering a brutal crackdown that claimed the lives of 148 Shia from the village of Dujail, north of Baghdad, after a 1982 assassination attempt on his life.

Iraq’s high tribunal also handed the death penalty to Saddam’s half-brother Barzan al-Tikriti, as well as Awad Ahmed al-Bandar, the head of the ousted regime’s Revolutionary Court, the man who recommended that the 148 Dujailis be executed.


..more..

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Can they hold off until February? I think that's when US networks do their ratings sweeps.

I assume Bushler will arrange for live coverage of the event, maybe with Nancy Grace narrating? :sarcasm:

[rainbow4321]

6. He's planning something for mid Jan. and needs the distraction

I'm surprised he hasn't scheduled if for the day that all the new Democratic Congresspeople are to be sworn in...can't have the MSM focusing on GOP losses, now can we??

[LiberalFighter]

15. Don't you mean they are going to invite Bush for the hanging?

Shouldn't he be there for the hanging too?

The agenda also includes a demonstration for Bush.

[radfringe]

58. :tinfoilhat::

:tinfoilhat: right after SOTU speech :tinfoilhat:

[O.M.B.inOhio]

2. Death for killing 148 Iraqis, so Bush deserves 100 deaths.

[Joe for Clark]

3. Good math skills.

Kick their butt Ohio!!!

Joe

[O.M.B.inOhio]

28. Oops! Should have been 1,000 deaths, divided between Bush, Cheney, Pearle, Rumsfeld...

[qwlauren35]

55. Whew!

This entire trial situation is making me very uncomfortable, and perhaps at DU, I'll find some like minds. I cannot remember another time in recent history where a dictator was "tried, convicted and sentenced to hang". They all got asylum somewhere. But this time, our president has a personal vendetta, and has turned over a country's PRESIDENT to his enemies and created a sham of a "fair trial". The Kurds would never give Hussein a fair trial. That's like Holocaust victims giving Hitler a "fair trial".

I'm not saying that Hussein wasn't a dictator, or that he didn't ruthlessly kill. But he WAS voted in. I am not comfortable with how we have invaded a country on false pretenses, imprisoned its president, and made it possible for him to be executed.

Imagine if Bush was so unpopular that a mixed group of Iraqi's and Afghani's rooted him out of Camp David one day, on charges of violating UN policies, and put him on trial for the murders of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani civilians, as simple retaliation for his father's embarrassment... and then had him hanged.

And the world let it happen because, after all, Bush wasn't very popular, and everyone knew that thousands of people had died as a result of his policies...

I know I'm being VERY extreme. But something about this just does NOT sit right with me.

[Nihil]

57. Agree to some extent

This show trial should never have happened.
This kangaroo court should never have sentenced him to death.
The invasion should never have happened.

Sadly, they did and only America seems to be wilfully keeping
its blinkers in place and pretending that there is some sort
of justice going on. The rest of the world can see through the
charade that is just trying to get a potentially embarrassing
ex-ally out of the way as quick as possible.

> Imagine if Bush was so unpopular ...

"It's not hard to do"

> ... that a mixed group of Iraqi's and Afghani's rooted him out
> of Camp David one day, on charges of violating UN policies, and
> put him on trial for the murders of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani
> civilians, as simple retaliation for his father's embarrassment...
> and then had him hanged.
>
> And the world let it happen because, after all, Bush wasn't very
> popular, and everyone knew that thousands of people had died as a
> result of his policies...
>
> I know I'm being VERY extreme. But something about this just does NOT
> sit right with me.

Funny. That bit of "very extreme" sits extremely right with me.

It wouldn't be "Iraqi's and Afghani's" but - in a fair, just world - it
would be the United Nations arresting Bush & co, putting them on trial
in the Hague and sentencing them to solitary confinement for the
duration of their natural life. After the first ten years, they
could always leave a rope in the room (if they felt merciful).

[StClone]

4. Did we hang Nazi's?

I don't think we did so why isn't Saddam imprisoned for life and avoid making a martyr or worse appearing like Saddam or Bush.

[olaus]

8. Go read some

History a number of them were hanged, I do not recall the names of the ones that were. Also I think it was Goring (sp?) that managed to get a Cyanide pill that he took just before the guards came to get him.

[John Gauger]

10. Hermann Goering.

Hitler's number two. They were afraid he would commit suicide during the interrogations or trial, but his room was clean until the day of his sentence.

[John Gauger]

9. We hung Nazis

Unless I'm mistaken, all defendants at Nuremburg were hung. Granted, some Nazis were granted amnesty and lived long lives working for the American intelligence apparatus, even being hidden from Israel during the 60s, but those at Nuremberg were killed.

[Benhurst]

11. We hanged Nazis

person: hang, hanged, hanged

[John Gauger]

16. Right. Sorry.

I always make that mistake for some reason. I don't really know why. I know what's proper but I still don't say it.

[Odin2005]

37. Actually, "hung" is considered gramatically correct, IIRC.

Hang and hung are in the same verb catagory as sang and sung

[Matilda]

43. Pictures are hung; people are hanged.

That's what I learned in school.


Edit to add: "sang" is the transitive participle (I sang), and "sung" is intransitive (the song was
sung). And I apologise for being pedantic.

And also there are tenses like the perfect and future perfect (I have sung, I will have sung) which
must make learning English very difficult for non-native speakers. But the two words sang and
sung are not interchangeable.

How did I get into this?

[llmart]

53. You may be wrong about that........

why, just the other day I heard a republican congressman or two say, "Wow, is he hung."

(Just a little election day humor. I'm feeling giddy about the Dems winning.)

[Benhurst]

47. Slang, maybe. Otherwise it's hanged. I just checked Fowler's

Modern English Usage just to be sure.

[Odin2005]

51. Ah, gotcha

I could of swore it was "hung"... :silly:

[jmowreader]

23. Seven Nuremburg defendants were imprisoned

These seven defendants were incarcerated in Spandau Prison after their trials.

Rudolf Hess received life in prison. He hanged himself in prison in 1987, and the prison was demolished soon thereafter.
Walther Funk received life in prison. He was released due to ill health in 1957.
Erich Raeder received life in prison. He was released due to ill health in 1955.
Albert Speer served twenty years.
Baldur von Schirach served twenty years.
Konstantin von Neurath was sentenced to fifteen years. He was released due to ill health in 1954.
Karl Donitz served ten years.

[sharp_stick]

13. We hanged scores of them

Some of the more famous, 10 I think, were hanged after the Nuremburg trials on October 16th in 1946.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Yes.

But the difference is that we gave the Nazis fair trials.

[John Gauger]

29. We gave them fair trials.

We could just as easily have done with Saddam. Churchill wanted to take them out behind the chemical shed and blow their brains out without trial. Stalin wanted theatrical show trials like back home. Truman, however, was an accidental President. He didn't understand these kinds of things and he believed that they should be treated like any other criminals. He was just a normal guy who carried himself with normal American values. For all his flaws, he believed in the rule of law. So he demanded real, fair trials. And thankfully, that's what they got. It was a great moment in the history of this nation.

Of course, nothing is perfect. They United States, Britain, and the USSR committed many crimes against humanity themselves. However, they won, and they got to define the charges at Nuremberg. Carpetbombing, the act of murdering civilians wholesale with bombers, was done at Dresden by Churchill and Tokyo by FDR. The Nazis did it, but they could not be charged because we did it ourselves. Still, it was a very important precedent in the history of justice.

[John Gauger]

5. What?

But he has only been charged with one of his crimes. Surely they aren't just going to convict him for Halabja and leave it at that? Come on, this guy has some serious dirt on him.

[LynnTheDem]

20. They did not convict him for Halabjah. They convicted him for signing

execution orders against 148 Iraqis from the village of Dujahl after their attempted assassination on Hussein's convoy failed & Iraq's court found them guilty & sentenced them to death.

[John Gauger]

25. That doesn't make any sense.

He signed the execution orders after they were sentenced to death? That's not a crime. Bush did that 152 times while he was governor of Texas. I thought he was on trial for Halabja. I was wondering why you all kept saying 148 - a lot more than that died in Halabja. That's fucking bullshit. That's just a show trial. I mean, I knew if was fake already, but come on; let's at least put him on trial for a real crime.

[LynnTheDem]

31. I hear ya.

The world (outside of America) hears ya.

But the 148 execution warrants Hussein signed (a year BEFORE Rummy shook his hand and the US became even better buddies w Hussein) had nothing to do with anyone in the US govt, so it was safe to charge Hussein with.

How does one have a fair trial when it's financed, organized and directed by occupiers during a raging war, anyways?

One of the (millions of) things I find hilariously ironic; Iraq's laws STILL require the president to sign court-ordered execution warrants. (Careful, Malki; look what happened to the last Iraqi "good ally" of America's.)

And as most Americans don't have the foggiest clue what Hussein was actually even charged of, and as most Americans do NOT believe in "innocent until proven guilty by a competent court of law" and "due process" etc, it really doesn't matter what Hussein was charged with.

No "wmd"? Doesn't matter.

No "incubator babies"? Didn't matter.

No "woodchipper"? Doesn't matter.

And republicans think half America are traitors & "aiding the enemy" coz they don't vote for the same political party.

Doesn't matter.

Demonize who you're told to by the US government; ignore reality, truth, facts; it's the American way of life.

[John Gauger]

34. That's sad.

That's just sad. I never knew that he was being charged with something that wasn't a crime. Apparently most Americans don't believe in innocent until proven guilty. I know I do. I get dirty looks when I tell people Osama bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty.

I want to ask about those last two charges against Saddam. I'm not sure, but I seem to recall that the "incubator babies" were Kuwaiti newborns? I remember hearing that no children were killed, at least not in hospitals, when Saddam invaded. Is that the bullshit you're referring to?

And I don't remember the woodchipper at all. When was that claim leveled at him?

[LynnTheDem]

36. The "incubator babies" lie was 1991;

How did the USA get involved, attacking Iraq for invading Kuwait, after all the government's public assertions that "Arab to Arab conflicts are not our concern"? More lies, that's how.

Colin Powell said he had "top secret satellite photos" showing thousands of Iraqi troops massed on the Saudi border, showing that Iraq intended to invade into Saudi. That was a total lie. Satellite photos taken at the exact same time in the exact same place showed...nothing. Miles and miles of empty sand. It never happened.

The above was admitted to the following year by Powell...but it was far too late by then; some 400,000 Iraqi (and other nations) men, women and children were dead and hundreds of thousands more were wounded.

General Colin Powell; : "I think we could go to war if they invaded Saudi Arabia. I doubt if we would go to war over Kuwait."

Another lie, one which galvanized the American public's support for the 1991 Gulf War, was the horrendous story of Iraqis in Kuwaiti hospitals dumping babies out of incubators and leaving them to die on the floor. This was totally untrue, made up by the PR firm Bush41 had hired (the same PR firm Bush43 now uses).

President Bush(41) mentioned the incubator babies in five speeches and seven senators referred to them in speeches backing a pro-war resolution. The resolution for war passed by 5 votes.

Later, Amnesty International, who had also been duped by the testimony, admitted it had got it wrong.

It had never happened.

http://foi.missouri.edu/polinfoprop/nocasusbelli.html


And the "woodchipper" that rightwingnuts still believe in (they're not the stupidest MFers on the planet for nothin')

Saddam Hussein and his "woodchipper people-shredder"?

Long-time Iraq war supporter Ann Clwyd came up with this sequel to the "incubator babies" lie. Clwyd said; "We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we believed it."

One unidentified, unverified source; one person. That's her entire "proof".

Clwyd insists that corroboration of the shredder story came when she was shown a dossier by a reporter from Fox TV. On June 18, Clwyd wrote a second article for the Times, citing a "record book" from Abu Ghraib, which described one of the methods of execution as "mincing".

-Can she say who compiled this book?
"No, I can't."

-Where is it now?
"I don't know."

-What was the name of the Fox reporter who showed it to her?
"I have no idea."

-Did Clwyd read the entire thing?
"No, it was in Arabic! I only saw it briefly."

Curiously, there is no mention of the book or of "mincing" as a method of execution on the Fox News website, nor does its foreign editor recall it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/analysis/story/0,3604,1155399,00.html

[John Gauger]

42. That you very much.

I read about the lack of troops on the border. It was very disturbing to think that they lied us into the previous Gulf War as well. It was amazing. They just decide what they are going to do and then come up with a reason to do it afterward. Fucking insane. Kind of the same feeling I got last year when my history teacher explained the Tonkin Gulf Resolution. I asked him, "Wait, what precisely is the story with the Gulf of Tonkin? The book says the story heard at the time was 'less than accurate.' What does that mean?" He said: "It was a lie. The White House just made the whole thing up from nothing." I had heard that before but never from a 'reputable' source. He just said it so naturally. I had thought it would sound somehow different, like you would be able to tell what a horrible truth he was relating. But it just sounded normal. Not controversial. No one was contesting that it was lie. He wasn't going to lose his job over telling us that. It was established fact. I had never heard that from any source that wasn't strongly pacifist. He was a history teacher, expected to tell us the truth. He did; he pointed out all the lies we had previously been fed. But it was still weird.

[Matilda]

46. The "people-mincer" story was also used by John Howard

as an excuse to follow Bush into Iraq.

What an idiot he looked. Not that he cared; he got what he wanted.

[SoCalDem]

7. Well shame on US

Granted he is a BADGUY...but

the perfect "punishment" for him woulod have been a closed circuit TV in his cell ...after he had been prosecuted in the Hague. Every TV in Iraq would have access to his every move in his cell 24-7..

To be able to tune in and watch him be locked up, bored out of his gourd, sleeping on a metal slab, and knwoing that "his people" were watching him, would have been a perfect punishment..

Killing him only adds more fuel to the conflagration

[Benhurst]

12. And guarantees he won't spill the beans on American complicity

in his crimes.

[John Gauger]

26. I know.

The fact that he was not tried in the Hague is proof that this was just a show trial - a kangaroo court, I think they call it. He was tried "by the Iraqi people" for political reasons. Same with the date of his sentence.

[gratuitous]

14. That's a pretty short appeals calendar

I guess since they're so new and all, the Iraqi courts of appeal and supreme court have pretty clear dockets. Still, you'd think the briefing schedule alone for the appeals would go well past January, what with requests for extension and procedural questions and all.

[SoCalDem]

18. They are just proofreading for typos

[cureautismnow]

17. When is Rumsfeld's Trial?

Isn't he an accessory after the fact?

[Thor_MN]

21. So the Iraqi courts will be free then for *'s trial?

Works out pretty good, they should get a little break before they start on the neocons.

[Rocknrule]

22. Just curious but...

isn't hanging sorta outdated? Why not use lethal injection if they're gonna execute him?

[LynnTheDem]

24. The death penalty in any form is outdated.

And uncivilized.

[Polesitter]

33. Saddam had asked for the Firing Squad - but that was refused.

Generally, hanging is considerable a dishonorable death with firing squad and beheading having a higher status.

During the Revolutionary War the British Adjutant, Major Andre, was captured in civilian clothes and in possession of the plans laying out the defenses of West Point. Not in uniform, he was condemned as a spy. Andre appealed to Washington for the honorable death of a firing squad. But as the British had hanged Nathan Hale, Andre suffered the same fate.

In the UCMJ, military offenses (sleeping on guard duty, desertion) were generally punished with the firing squad while common criminal offenses like murder & rape resulted in hanging.

A few decades ago, Saudi Arabia executed a member of the ryyal family for adultery. The princess was beheaded (British TV Show "Death of a Princess") while her lover was hanged.

After WWII, those executed for crimes against humanity faced the gallows. At this point, he probably regrets not taking door number 2 and going into exile, even to a garden spot like N. Korea, with his sons and a Billion $.

BTW Trivia of the day - official start and end dates of US being in a state of war for WWII: 7 Dec 1941 - 28 April 1952, 10 years, 4 Months & 21 Days. (See the Vet Guide: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:PCTt5AXGaMIJ:www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.pdf+vetguide+credit+for+wartime+service&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1)

[Odin2005]

39. I heard that hanging is a pretty painless way to die, actually.

As long as it's done right that is (most hangings back in the day WEREN'T done right, unforntunately), if the noose is tied correctly the person will be knocked unconcious the instant the neck is broken according to a show on the History Channel I watched. That sounds a lot more humane (if any execution cane be called humane) then lethal injection after all the stories I've heard of the condemned not being knocked out by the first injection.


BTW, I am generally against the death penalty, with the exception of war criminals like Chimpy and Saddam and leaders who order genocide like Milosivic.

[barb162]

41. yeah but who knows how to tie nooses correctly?

I agree with you about if it is done correctly it's fast. The pain part? Who knows?

[leesa]

27. I want him to testify at Bush's war crimes trial AND I want a trial of the

crimes we actually started this bullshit war for. Americans actually think Saddam was tried for the things we accused him of and it was something else entirely. I want the truth about those charges and the US role revealed in those crimes.

[Shakespeare]

30. Coinciding with the state of the union address.

But Bush had nothing to do with the timing. Noooooo, siree. Nothing at all. :eyes:

[unkachuck]

32. I don't know why....

....but I have a feeling Saddam is going to escape to South America and live to be ninety-three....

[leesa]

35. Better not conflict with Super Bowl Sunday

[Throd]

56. It will be the half time show

[Odin2005]

38. Hmmm... Right when the newly Dem congress convenes...

Looks like * wants to take people's attention of congress.

[savemefromdumbya]

40. Can they hang his friend Rumsfeld too?

[Lindacooks]

44. Gee, how .... civilized.

Not.

[susanna]

45. Self-deleted.

[Javaman]

48. I better get writing that book!

new on the best seller list, "the last days of the dictator".

Ah, he'll be swinging just intime for the new Dem house to go into session.

Is it just me or is this just another body that moron* is burying? Only difference is; it's out in public. I just get this feeling that moron* is pushing our noses into his folly and he's* laughing all the way to the bank.

[G_j]

50. death, death, death

killing and more killing is *'s solution to every "problem"

[Javaman]

54. Exactly...

What gets me about this is it appears as if they all got together and made a bet. It went something like this...

Moron*: I bet you I can scape goat saddam, blame him for all my problems then kill him before he has a chance to squeal to the U.S. plebes about my families involvement in his past and do it all publicly!

The rest of the room slams money on the table and yells..

Everyone else: You're on!

[Infinite Hope]

49. In Time for the State Of The Union Address...n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

52. just like the queen of hearts

"No dear," says the king of hearts, "appeal first, then the hanging."