NYC to change ID rules for transgendered

[deadparrot]

NEW YORK - The city wants to make it easier for transgender New Yorkers to switch the sex listed on their birth certificate even without undergoing reassignment surgery, putting the city at the forefront of efforts to redefine gender.

Under present city rules, only people who can show proof of surgery qualify for getting a revised birth certificate. Even then, the only change made is the elimination of any reference to gender on the document.

The new plan, unveiled last month, would let birth records reflect the new gender. It would also allow changes for people who hadn't had genital surgery, but could show substantial proof that they have undertaken other steps to irrevocably alter their gender-identity — like undergoing hormone therapy.

The policy change is one that advocates for New York's sizable transgender community have requested for years, but which has taken on greater significance in a post-Sept. 11 world of increased security.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061107/ap_on_re_us/new_gender_records

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. I really don't understand the need for poof of gender for some people

As far as I'm concerned you can check whatever box you identify with, and check the other one the next day. What's so damn fucking important that one's gender needs to match genitalia? If I think I'm a duck, I'm a fucking DUCK and no government official can tell me otherwise, not matter what the fuck is on the fucking form.

This gender control stuff gets my goat, sorry for the swearing but I have several trangender friends and I think they should put down their gender based on what their wearing or what they feel or whatever the hell they damn well want! In fact, I think the forms shouldn't have a checkbox, but should have a blank space so I can write in whatever I want too. Same goes for sexual orientation - let people put whatever they want, dammit.

:evilgrin:

[nickinSTL]

3. well, yes, but if they're going to require the designation

at least making it easier to change is a good step.

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. I agree, just let me rant about the system if that's ok :)

These things really piss me off, if you can't already tell :)

[TheWatcher]

10. This Transgendered Person appreciates your comments. :)

:loveya:

[nickinSTL]

2. Excellent!

More laws like these need to be enacted.

Post 9/11 ID requirements have made things much more difficult for many TG people.

[customerserviceguy]

4. Expect some resistance to this.

So, a man establishes residency in NY, gets a new birth certificate stating he is a woman, then he can go to places that have banned gay marriage, and effectively engage in same-sex marriage. Not a problem for me, but expect the fundies to figure this one out real soon, when they get done praying for Ted Haggard to be worthy enough to suck up their dollars again.

The same people who have a hangup on the definition of marriage have even bigger ones on the definition of gender.

[Chovexani]

6. Uh...

I'm not really sure about the point you're trying to make. Transfolk come in all orientations.

I know you probably didn't mean anything by it, but that statement was a little ignorant, sort of like the old canard about GLB people must be confused about their gender. People transition for deeply personal reasons, not because they want to skirt laws (no pun intended).

[msmcghee]

7. I don't think he was being ignorant.

I am transgendered (I hate using that clumsy term). Aside from the fundies getting their panties in a twist - I can understand why it could put people in danger of terrorist attack (homegrown or otherwise) if it is too easy to obtain an ID that says you are one gender or the other.

Some transgendered people I know even prefer to live part of their lives in each mode. Like, one for work and one for "real life". I don't see any problem with allowing two ID's - easily cross-referenced by computer - for those with more than one gender identity.

But IMO, whatever happens - it should not make it easier for bad people to hide. My 2 cents.

[Dancer]

9. This is an enlightened move by NYC

If only it passes.

Let's say you are transgendered, without genital surgery, and have all your documents in order regarding gender. Except for your birth certificate, which cannot be changed without surgery. Most of the time you will do ok. However, if you would want a passport,for example, you would need the changed birth certificate so that it matches your other ID, and your appearance or claim. There are other examples where difficulty might arise. The deeper one steps into officialdom, the greater the difficulty. In this society, ones gender must be officially approved.

For the transgendered, others have always framed their issue, defined the words, and managed the language and the logic that refers to their inner reality.

The transgender "issue" may be the most difficult one for straight people to understand or accept. The quality of mind, or level of spiritual consciousness that the attainment of this understanding and acceptance might require could just be the same quality or the same level needed for peace in all matters.

[customerserviceguy]

12. Thank you

No, I hope I was not being ignorant, but I was just pointing out that there will be resistance to this from the same people who think marriage is 100% for a man and a woman to spawn babies with. Somehow, they're not threatened by me, with a vasectomy, and my girlfriend, who is post-menopause getting married, even though we're not going to "be fruitful and multiply".

You've hit on a great truth, security comes from knowing who people are, and their backgrounds, if they want to travel hassle-free. If I want to go visit a foreign country, I need to submit proof of identity to obtain a passport. It takes time, and costs money, but that's the breaks if I want to travel overseas. I can easily see frequent travellers, whether they do so for business or pleasure, spending the money to establish themselves as being trustworthy, and being able to breeze through security with nothing more than an iris scan that matches their ID card. That should protect the rights of transgendered people who have to maintain multiple gender identifications for various situations.

How useful is gender as an identifier for terror-related purposes? There's not a lot of variation, most folks clearly fall into only two categories.

[Bridget Burke]

8. Last I heard, we Texans keep our "birth gender" for life. No matter what.

Which allowed two women to marry in San Antonio a few years ago. Legally, because one of them had been born a man.

I'm sure some heads exploded over that one!

[crispini]

15. That loophole already exists.

In Texas, your gender is on your birth certificate and you can't change it, so it is entirely possible for someone who was born in one gender, and then changes, to turn around and legally marry someone who is now of the "same" sex. As long as your birth certificates say M and F, then Texas law doesn't care.

Ironic, isn't it?

Edited to add-- wow, didn't realize Bridget had posted exactly the same thing. LOL!

[tonekat]

11. Glad to see progress being made on this front

We define ourselves by our identity. The genital surgery is expensive. Statistics show that only a very small percentage of transsexuals actually get the surgery.

But I still have to live my life in my chosen gender, and if there is a chance to not have to spend the remainder of my (pre-surgical) life having to explain why the gender markers on my documentation don't match my appearance, then bring it on!

The concept of forcing me to go through pre-surgical life with an "M" on my drivers license is not justified by "national security" concerns.

And I find it hard to belive that there is going to be a rash of fraudulent activity caused by this either. There are larger and more frequently occurring issues to be addressed as far as security goes. Just look at how unsecure social security numbers are, as one example.

[DuaneBidoux]

13. A new front on right to equal treatment under the law: think of this:

There would now be two ways to go about getting the rights of heterosexual people--I don't say it's the best thing in the world or even right but for those folks that want a marriage who cares if they call you a man when you're a woman or the other way around? Science is understanding that sexuality is fluid and so many of the lines have nothing to do with reality that these are the kinds of things we will see more and more as humanity evolves.

[UncleSepp]

14. Hooray for this one

I've been on hormones since March, and in the last two weeks, I've started having a real problem using my own credit cards - even with my driver's license, with a May photo on it, to back up my identity. I don't pass as female any more even in full makeup, earrings, and so forth. It will be at least another year before I have any surgery, and frankly, the options for bottom surgery are not all that attractive to me. Washington State does not require surgery before the marker change, so fortunately, I will be able to have ID that matches my appearance in a couple of months. New York's new rules sound like they will work much like Washington State's rules.

This makes things easier not just for the transgendered person, but for his or her employer also. When changing the gender marker to match appearance can be done earlier in the transition process, then the employer's HR department does not have to deal with the transgenderedness at all (except for on-the-job transitions). They have a legally female, female appearing employee just like any other, or a legally male, male appearing employee just like any other. Whether there's an innie or an outie does not have to be the employer's concern.