Poland "misled" into joining Iraq war

[maxrandb]

http://www.poland.pl/news/article,Poland_misled_into_joining_Iraq_war,id,245158.htm

I'm not seeing this in our MSM. This is from te former president of Poland in an interview. Bet Colin Powell is a broken man after the way this mis-administration used him and his reputation.

Bolding is mine.

"Warsaw decided to take part in the war with Iraq on grounds of untrue information which it received from the US administration - former President of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski has told a German daily.

In an interview for "Der Tagesspiegel" Mr. Kwasniewski said that he heard about Iraq's mass destruction weapons from then US State Secretary Colin Powell himself. He added that now he would treat information supplied by intelligence "with more caution".

[Phredicles]

1. Poland and the US both.

Still, I found it especially ironic that Poland would participate in this unprovoked invasion, given their experiences of Sept. '39.

[Tight_rope]

17. LMBAO...too ironic

[Tight_rope]

18. LMBAO...too ironic

[Drifter]

57. The Coalition of the Mislead ...

is growing

Cheers
Drifter

[Solly Mack]

2. LMAO

[personman]

3. You mean "You forgot Poland" Poland?

During the debate John Kerry accused Bush of failing to gain international support for the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, saying "... when we went in, there were three countries: Great Britain, Australia and the United States. That's not a grand coalition. We can do better." Bush replied by saying "Well, actually, he forgot Poland."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_forgot_Poland

[ShortnFiery]

10. And Camaroon! (thanks Capitol Steps) n/t

[twilight_sailing]

4. "Don't forget Poland!" n/t

[alfredo]

5. Poland was offered big money and US warplanes.

Bush even off-shored some of our defense industry to Poland.

[Straight Shooter]

15. Exactly. They weren't misled into anything. They walked in, eyes wide open. n/t

[moodforaday]

35. You're kidding, right?

Explain "offered"? We're buying F-16s - the first two have just arrived today. They took three days to traverse the Atlantic - the first time they got recalled to base, the second time made an emergency landing in Iceland, both times due to (unspecified) technical failures. Not that I'm concerned about this, I only hope this translates to a bit of blackeye for Lockheed Martin...

And you haven't off-shored any defense industry to Poland, let me assure you. There was talk of knowledge transfer, but none of this has materialized - Bush is not holding up your side of the deal and he's screwing us as hard as he's been screwing you guys.

And ues, our foreign policy was totally unhinged under the previous government, and has gotten much worse since. I didn't vote for those assholes any more you voted for Bush.

So chill :)

[alfredo]

53. Ok the last I heard the air craft and defense plants

were incentives to join the "coalition of the willing." I didn't know that the aircraft were being sold to you guys. Didn't he give or loan Poland the money to buy the aircraft? Such things are not unheard of. It's a way to funnel tax money to favored industries.

My source in Poland got very ill, lost his eyesight and disappeared until about a month ago. So there was no way for me to know that bush screwed you guys too.

[blackhorse]

55. I for one am damned glad

to see a poster on this forum who knows what's going on inside Poland. Good to see your comments, marekjed.

Poland has an ungodly amount of work to do within its own borders. And, "ungodly" is the correct word because the influence of the church in Poland is going a long way to supporting the right wing politicians like the twin brothers now holding the presidency and the prime minister's office.

I wish Poland well marekjed. The Poles had one hell of a lousy 20th century and they deserve to get some good leadership for the 21st.

BH

[alfredo]

59. I had heard about the twins taking power and that the

whole country took a disastrous turn to the right. I heard the political left is in sorry shape.

[blackhorse]

60. alfredo,

The ultra-conservatives in Poland, like everywhere else, have bizarre priorities. The twins are creating a political storm about homosexuality in order to distract the Poles from the very serious infrastructure and economic problems in the country. It is a sad state of affairs.

Cheers

BH

[alfredo]

61. That's terrible. They trying to emulate the RNC?

Maybe they will meet the same end as our ultra right.

I'm going to try to make contact with my friend. He has MS and the summers are terrible for him. Now that it is cooling off a bit, maybe he can see enough to e-mail.


My friend is a lawyer from Opole. We got to know each other through a Crohn's Colitis newsgroup. I have watched him progress from a college student to a father of two. He used to be very active in politics but life got in the way. He was very unhappy about the state of Polish politics. He was the one that told me about how Microsoft pretty much bought off the government so they could be the official platform for all government business.

[DavidDvorkin]

6. The White House used Powell because of his history

He covered up My Lai and Iran Contra. He's always used his aura of dignity and integrity in the service of swine in the White House. That's his real reputation.

[bobbie]

27. Exactly. Where the hell did he get this good reputation

We hear so much about? Was it just propaganda and eventually people believed it and internalized it without really knowing the origin?

[DavidDvorkin]

54. I've always wondered about that, too.

[bidiboom]

7. Actually...

Kwasniewski knew the WMD threat was a lie. He was sucking up to * hoping to get UN General Seretary job and needed *'s support IMHO.

[UpInArms]

25. Welcome to DU, bidiboom!

Glad to have you here :hi:

[bidiboom]

30. Thank You UpInArms n/t

[jokerman93]

8. Interesting

"Warsaw decided to take part in the war with Iraq on grounds of untrue information which it received from the US administration - former President of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski has told a German daily."

It'll be interesting to see if this gets any traction in the MSM.

Following the logic here, Kwasniewski is going on record with confirmation that the Neocons exploited not only the American legal and military apparatus but also the assets of other nations to violate international law and prosecute their agenda.

How much Kwasniewski actually knew at the time is up for debate, but this could be a signal others on the world stage might step forward as well with claims and allegations against the Bush regime. With this, you might say the dialog about their criminality officially goes international.

Or this could mean nothing at all...

Don't you love a good cliffhanger?
:popcorn:
J

[closeupready]

9. Too little, too late.

The damage has been done. :mad:

[enki23]

11. poland, apparently, has forgotten about poland

.

[orleans]

12. bush was fucking the ambasador to poland, victor ashe,

and he probably helped. "don't forget about poland"


bush's lover victor ashe

[indepat]

37. Ouch! That's nasty

:D

[orleans]

50. (maybe nasty...but TRUE) n/t

[kwolf68]

13. Hey Poland

Get in line.

[Senator]

14. It seems Terrorizing Poland is just in the fascist DNA

Now if we can just wake people up to the fact that they Terrorized the American People, and need to be punished for it, we might be able to begin to Redeem Our National Soul.

How? Sadly, "Violence" is The Answer.

--

[struggle4progress]

16. Polish official: American diplomat suggested I be fired

Deputy prime minister opposes Iraq policy

November 8, 2006
BY RYAN LUCAS

WARSAW, Poland -- Poland's foreign minister summoned the U.S. ambassador on Tuesday to answer allegations that a senior American diplomat overstepped his bounds in a conversation with an aide to the prime minister.

Foreign Minister Anna Fotyga met with U.S. Ambassador Victor Ashe on Tuesday evening to clarify comments by Ashe's chief deputy during a meeting Oct. 25 with a senior government official, said an embassy spokesman.

Deputy Prime Minister Roman Giertych claims Kenneth Hillas, the No. 2 diplomat at the U.S. Embassy, suggested Giertych be dismissed. Giertych is a longtime opponent of Poland's support of the U.S. in Iraq ...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/127963,CST-NWS-pol08.article


Poland has been trying to back out of this mess for several years:

Tue, Apr 20, 04
Poland planning pull-out of troops from Iraq
Derek Scally, in Warsaw

Poland is planning to withdraw its troops from Iraq in the coming months, dealing another blow to the US-led coalition forces there ...

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0420/3783682793HM1SCALLY.html

The US has regularly applied pressure to get them to stay. I'd say they're getting sick of it.

[moodforaday]

40. US foreign policy caught red-handed

Read the article linked in parent, please, to see US foreign policy caught red-handed. There is one crucial piece of information the article doesn't provide. PLease consider the following:

The deputy prime minister whose dismissal the US embassy was apparently lobbying for is a far-right, homophobic, anti-choice, anti-EU radical, a fundie if you've ever seen one, nationalist-going-fascist, and I'm serious. He's also the minister of education and wants to teach kids Intelligent Design... In short, he's a total disgrace and would never have been brought into the government if the party that won the last elections didn't need a few additional votes in the parliament. He leads a marginal party that, according to consistent polls, wouldn't win a single seat if elections were held today.

BUT: that same minister and his dinky party are the ONLY political voice in Poland to oppose the war in Iraq and Poland's participation in it. He recently demanded that Polish parliament hold hearings on - quote - "How many innocent victims the war in Iraq has claimed in the last three years".

He's unlikely to get those hearings, because that would be too embarassing to our dear leaders. So basically he's out of step with the rest of the government. But this demand, the question he wants answered, is also the reason why the US deputy ambassador to Poland suggested that he be dismissed.

So the memo was leaked to the media and that's that. But it makes me wonder, how many ministers in previous governments have been fired after the US embassy called. And if this is happening in Poland, imagine what goes on in places such as Venezuela or Nicaragua right now. It's beyond sickening. (And in Poland, there is some outrage at the deputy ambassador Hillas, but much more at the fact the memo was leaked. Blame the messenger - one ruse that always works.)

[struggle4progress]

47. Thanks for this info.

[sweetheart]

19. are the polish that stupid?

Is it true? Misled my ass, they were complicit in aggressive war and violations of
the war crimes statutes.

[robertpaulsen]

20. Bush: "Don't forget Poland!" Poland: "Forget you, you fuckin' liar!" n/t

[oblivious]

21. Polish foreign minister: "Access to the oilfields is our ultimate objective"

Thursday, 3 July, 2003
Poland seeks Iraqi oil stake

Poland, which has sent troops to support the US-led forces in Iraq, has acknowledged its "ultimate objective" is to acquire supplies of Iraqi oil.

The Polish Foreign Minister, Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz, said his country had never disguised the fact that it sought direct access to the oilfields.

He was speaking as a group of Polish firms signed a deal with a subsidiary of US Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, Halliburton.

The US firm, Kellogg, Brown and Root, has already won million-dollar contracts to carry out reconstruction work in Iraq.

"We have never hidden our desire for Polish oil companies to finally have access to sources of commodities," Mr Cimoszewicz told the Polish PAP news agency.

Access to the oilfields "is our ultimate objective," he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3043330.stm

[moodforaday]

43. You got it

This guy had a real knack for diplomacy. After a major flood, with loss of life and serious loss of property, he said - Well, this only goes to show people should buy insurance.

And btw - we're getting _nothing_ for Iraq. The only gain any official has been able to name is experience points for the army.

The Iraq war is hugely unpopular, but you won't see it on the media, either. It's pretty hopeless, actually.

[Hekate]

22. Now they figure this out? I guess the bribe wore off

Didn't they send something like 200 troops, supplied by the US?

Hekate

[ckramer]

23. Fuck them! They are idiots trying to suck up to Bush

Duh!

[LynnTheDem]

24. Oooh now there's a wee LIE.

3 July, 2003,

Poland seeks Iraqi oil stake

The Polish Foreign Minister, Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz, said his country had never disguised the fact that it sought direct access to the oilfields.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3043330.stm

[AIJ Alom]

26. Is this why Bush kept stressing Poland in 2004 ?

Because it took such a deception effort to get the Poles on board, that to not incorporate them into the election year spin would be a disservice to the liars on his staff.

[LynnTheDem]

28. Poland was NOT DECEIVED.

They publicly admitted they were in for the oil.

FUCK Poland.

[AIJ Alom]

29. You're so sweet when you're mad. Rock on.

Very good point by the way.

[bidiboom]

31. I am sure you meant fuck polish government.

70-80% of Polish people were against the invasion and many marched and protested in spite of the media and government lies.

[mom cat]

56. Hi there and welcome to DU!

:bounce::hi::bounce:

[moodforaday]

33. Uh, Lynn

I'm Polish, *in* Poland. Yes, our previous (left wing) government - the one that got us into Iraq - was a bunch of corrupt suck-ups. They lost big in last presidential and parliamentary elections because of how corrupt they were. They had as much power as your Republicans had until last night, and they lost all of it.

Our current (right-wing) is much much worse. They are ignorant, incompetent, xenophobic, paranoiac, Europhobic, vindictive, power-grubbing, sanctimonious zealots. And they're expanding our presence in Afghanistan. Our Defense Secretary has British citizenship AND was a resident fellow at American Enterprise Institute until 2005.

And you know what? Pot, kettle, black. Please don't extrapolate from the government onto the nation. That's all I'm saying.

[bemildred]

32. "We thought youse guys had your shit together." nt

[Anakin Skywalker]

34. I Guess Bushie Will Forget Them Now.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

36. Great...another ally pissed at us

Poland is such a great country, with a budding record of democracy. NATURALLY we exploit them.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. This is the sort of thing that's going to bring back Polish jokes.

What a crock! This was all about getting in good with the big powerful Americans, and getting to be little mini-imperialists.

No sympathy at all for Colin Powell. He knew exactly what he was doing too.

[moodforaday]

39. What's interesting

and simply lame is that my ex-President is laying all the blame on Powell. Granted, Powell earned his disgrace when he lied through his teeth to the UN Security Council, but that was only a PR job. It's easy, it's safe and it's lame to be fingering the one guy who's long gone from the administration.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Sounds like our Republicans have taught him well.

Always pass the buck on to somebody else. Never accept any personal responsibility for your own actions and choices.

I haven't been keeping track of Polish politics lateley, but I hope your leadership has improved.

[moodforaday]

42. Alas, it's much, much worse now

The lefties - the former president this thread is about and the former majority party - brought us into NATO, into EU, and made Poland attractive for plenty of foreign investment. They are also responsible for 18% unemployment, and they were corrupt like you wouldn't believe, straight from Abramoff's books and maybe worse, because they managed to involve secret services too. The worst thing they did is that they completely discredited left/progressive ideas. So now we have far-right wackos in power, who are not half-competent to run the country and within a year have managed to divide the people much like Bush has in the States. Just this week there's been talk about banning abortion outright (make it illegal even in case of rape or serious life hazard to the mother) and, get this, banning or restricting the use of contraceptives. Oh, the minister of education wants to teach kids intelligent design. And there is no debating merits with those people. Like a hundred Bill O'Reillies in our parliament, making the laws unopposed.

In my 37 years I'd never wanted to leave the country. Now I wouldn't think twice, given a chance.

[Crunchy Frog]

45. I'm sorry.

:(

[MetaTrope]

44. Actually, it looks like this is very old news...

Reported on CBS back in 2004:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/17/iraq/main617857.shtml

[moodforaday]

46. No, it's a new interview

He did say the same thing in 2004, when he was still president (though he did not name Powell then). But this is a new interview, published yesterday.

[David__77]

48. Kwasniewski is simply being an opportunist.

He knew this when president, but kept his nose firmly in the ass of the US. He knows that ordinary Poles oppose the occupation and is attempting to garner support for a "leftist" return to power.

[damntexdem]

49. Poland and all too many in the U.S. were willing to be mislead.

While millions of us were warning about the misleading.

[anotherdrew]

51. now it's Blair's turn to come clean about the threats bribes and lies he got

it's his best chance

[Theduckno2]

52. Some of the best advice I ever got came from my Driver's Ed. instr.

"IGNORANCE is no excuse!" Just because your "friend" in the seat next to you tells you the speed limit is 65mph and you yourself don't look for speed limit signs, don't assume you won't get a speeding ticket.

Pleading you were mislead makes no difference if you made no attempt to find out on your own.

By the way, starting a war requires a little bit more responsibility than driving a car, in my humble opinion.

Then, there is that OIL thing, thanks to LynnTheDem.

[superconnected]

58. Yeah, get in line behind America and England.

[Matilda]

62. Kwasniewski is one step ahead of John Howard.

He still thinks the invasion is a good thing.