18,000 votes in US House race lost!-Jennings(D) replacing Kath. Harris could lose because of it!!!

[demo dutch]

Thousands of votes were either not counted or not cast in Sarasota's nationally watched congressional race.
BY MARC CAPUTO
[e-mail]

SARASOTA - The latest Florida election whodunit, replete with a razor-thin vote margin and a looming recount, played out here Wednesday as state and county officials were at a loss to explain why 18,382 votes weren't cast or recorded in the nationally watched congressional race to replace Katherine Harris.

Already, the specter of the botched 2000 elections has gripped the area, owing to the mere mention of Harris, the former Florida secretary of state, as well as partisan battle cries, with Republican Vernon Buchanan saying it's time to move on after he claimed a 368-vote victory near 1 a.m. Wednesday.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/15965769.htm

Recounts are underway but chances are slim since UNDERRVOTES ANNOT BE COUNTED WITHOUT A PAPERTRAIL!!!!
so there one casualty due to E-voting

[bluerum]

1. Who the hell is running that state anyway. Oh - thats right. Sorry. nt

[napi21]

2. So, if they know they weren't counted, COUNT THEM NOW!

If they were lost, REVOTE!!!!

[robinlynne]

3. dre's. there is no way to recount.

[napi21]

9. Then call for a recount of that district! How damn hard can THAT BE?

At least this time we aren't talking about the whole State!

[soup]

16. It's garbage in, garbage out.

If the machine didn't record a vote, there's nothing there to recount. 'Recount' means nothing nowadays with these electronic vapor voting machines. The only way to change or correct the total would be to revote. Otherwise, it's just adding the same thing over again.

What a freaking mess.

Thanks, Kat, for selecting and certifying these damn things. :grr:

[robinlynne]

23. cant be done. They can hold a new election.

[napi21]

27. Sorry, my mistype. I meant re-vote the whole district!

In my tired old brain I was thinking voting again, but the fingers were thinking counting!!

Anyway, if they really talking about 18 thousand votes, and they are aware that there really IS a problem, it can't be that hard to hold another electionjust for that District.

[robinlynne]

28. right you are.

[soup]

40. sending you a smile of understanding.

My apologies if I appeared to jump on you. This issue has made me crazy since 2001 when Harris was first certifying these blasted things.

I got condescendingly patted on the head so many times, it's now flat.
"There, there. Don't worry. Nothing can go wrong -
go wrong -
go wrong."

[flyarm]

38. NOT ONLY IS THERE NO WAY TO RECOUNT..THERE IS NO ONE TRAINED

TO DO AUDITS!!

in Pinellas individuals ( me included ) put up over $2000.00 for an audit..a state auditor was brought in..and he had no protocol to do an audit..he wasted his time..lots of wispering and bottom line..the machines could not be audited!

and where was the FDP?? they didn't even give a damn..it was a verboten discussion in the democratic party of florida..we had to do everything as non partisan..with no help at all from the florida democratic party other than harrassment from the party!

oh and before the primary a test was run on the machines..and the test failed...where was the dem party..awol.........

fly a fla delegate

[thecrow]

4. 18,382 votes weren't cast or recorded

Well, if they weren't CAST then you CAN"T count them!!!!!
WTF kind of statement is that anyway?
Now they want to recount votes that weren't cast?
It sounds like Florida.
Oh, nevermind.

[ellenfl]

8. in other words, 18000+ voters showed up and signed the

register and their votes were supposedly cast but didn't record. of course, it would be cruella's seat. :yoiks: does that mean cruella gets to keep her seat?

ellen fl

[demo dutch]

33. No the GOP candidate Buchanan wins!

[ellenfl]

42. i know, i was just funnin' with ya. eom

[rodeodance]

5. oh, my Gawd!!

[rodeodance]

6. so,it was a Repug who was told he had won. now wants to 'move on'

[soup]

21. Channeling Alanis Morrissette here.

Need to dig out the 'Jagged Little Pill' cd.

[iconoclastic cat]

7. Can we un-annex Floriduh? nt

[soup]

10. I find it extremely hard to believe that 18,382 people in that district

went to the polls on Tuesday and didn't cast a vote in the Buchanan/Jennings race.

Mind-boggling.

[EFerrari]

13. Why? These same people have been not voting in important

races for years now. :(

[soup]

17. silly me. How could I have forgotten?

Come to think of it, I may not have voted, either. :banghead:

[EFerrari]

22. Greg Palast did a devastating segment on "undervotes" in FL

2000. I'm trying to remember if it was in "Got Democracy" or some other documentary film. I think it was there. He found out that a switch was used in those "undervoting" precincts that wasn't used in the Thug precincts. I assume he meant a written switch.

:mad:

[struggle4progress]

34. Sarasota voters report touch-screen woes

By DAVID GULLIVER, HEATHER ALLEN and FRANK GLUCK

SARASOTA COUNTY -- ...

More than 120 voters called or e-mailed the Herald-Tribune, reporting problems with the county's touch-screen voting machines. Almost all of the complaints stemmed from the congressional race between Buchanan and Jennings ...

Across town at a church on Wood Street, Lowman, a Democrat, touched the screen for Jennings.

"It turned into the blue highlight around her name," she said. "But when I got to the review screen it indicated I had not voted in the Jennings-Buchanan race." ...

More than half told stories like those of Politowicz and Lowman, with votes cast that did not register at first ...

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/NEWS/611090312/1006/SPORTS

[demo dutch]

35. Of course they did!

[Roland99]

11. No way could the final results be considered without those votes! Open up the polls!!

RE-VOTE if they have to but no way should that freakin' W**** be awarded a House seat on LOST VOTES!!!!

[file83]

47. EXACTLY - declare the election there NULL and VOID - and have another election!!!

That election can not be considered valid what-so-ever.

[flyarm]

12. i hold the fdp responsible!!

i am furious ..so many of us warned the florida democratic party and we were told to shut up..we were told ..go away and be quiet..there is nothing wrong with the machines..nope ..look over there..no problem here..we werelaughed at by people in the party..we were shuttered off to corners not to be heard from..we had eyes rolled at us at the convention ..

and from the top of the FDP we were told..zip it up!!

so now this happens..with the very person Rhamn Emmanual stuffed down our throats!!

Now FDP Chair Karen Thurman and the DEC boards are sending us letters begging for money to help get a recount..well fuck them now!!

and i wrote that to the FDP last night..fuck them all to hell..i have been called a liar about these machines..and ostricized by the dem party in fla for standing up over and over about these machines..the only place we could have meetings about them was private meetings..and DFA meetings...

i have been laughed at by the dem party chairs..i have recieved all sorts of rude behavior for trying to discuss the machines..and gotten zero ..zero support from the dem party of fla about these damn machines...

now they want my money..after the election???????????? after gagging us before the election and for the past 4 years..fuckem!

The dem party fucked a great candidate to put this Jennings in..

they fucked everyone trying to get voting reforms..and they shit on us..

so now Karen Thurman has awakened...fuck her..i want her out and i want to clean house in Fla!

fly..a disgusted dem delegate

[EFerrari]

19. That's horrible and predictable! Assholes!

So, what's going to happen now, fly?

People have had YEARS to get this and deal with it. There's no excuse now, none.

[Spangle]

26. You got a story now

The fact that you were treated like this over this issue and the fact that they are now asking for YOUR money to help 'recount' votes... You have one of those 'News Worthy" storys that the media loves. Just don't show 'mad'. But explain that they were warned, that some Floridians DID try to prevent this, and wasn't listened to. By even their own party.

Votes totally missing here. And in races across the country... both sides of the fence are just now realizing that there really isn't anything to 'recount'. No way to question/verify the election results. AND people are starting to admit that these machines do make misakes.. And when they do... to bad.

The republicans just lost VA... and THEY can't even recount. <grin>

The story is... What DO they really need the money for. Cause there is NOTHING to recount. The only other option is redoing the election. And that is pretty much un-heard of.

[flyarm]

36. this was the email i got last night from the FDP chair...

and my reply is on top!!..i returned the email with the follwoing written on top...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
my reply...

Ohhh now you give a shit?????????????

Now ????? WHAT A JOKE!!...A LITTLE LATE TO THE DANCE AREN'T YOU?????????

HMMM AREN'T YOU THE FDP... THE SAME PEOPLE THAT laughed at us and rolled YOUR eyes and told us to shut up AT THE FLORIDA CONVENTION??????? AND THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE FLORIDA DEC'S AND DNC AND PARTY?????????

The hypocracy is mind boggling!!

AND AREN'T YOU THE SAME PEOPLE WHO DESTROYED GREAT CANDIDATES TO PUT YOUR UNQUALIFIED DLC PEOPLE INTO OFFICE??????????

CALL RAHM ..GET THE MONEY FROM HIM!!

YOU HAVE BLED ME DRY ..NOW WHO'S LAUGHING???????

SIGNED XXXXX DELEGATE

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

UNDERSTAND THIS ...MANY OF US TRIED EXHAUSTIVELY TO DISCUSS THIS PROBLEM WITH KAREN THURMAN BEFORE SHE WAS MADE STATE CHAIR..SHE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE MACHINES..AND IT WAS OBVIOUS..SHE DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM..SEVERAL OF US DELEGATES TRIED IN EVERY WAY TO DISCUSS THE MACHINES WITH SHE AND SEC CHAIRS..AND WE WERE TREATED ... EVER SO RUDELY!! ANY DISCUSSING ON THE MACHINES WAS VERBOTEN BY THE FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC PARTY...

SO WE STARTED NON PARTISAN GROUPS THROUGHOUT THE STATE!


I HAD ANDY STEPHENSON HELPING TRAIN PEOPLE IN MY COUNTY IN FLA..

AND NO ONE FROM THE DEM PARTY WHO HAD POSITIONS WOULD EVEN LISTEN!

THEY TRIED TO GAG US..IN EVERY WAY..


SO NOW THEY WANT OUR MONEY?? FUCK THEM...WE HAVE INDIVIDUALLY PUT UP OUR OWN MONEY FOR AUDITS..AND INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS HAVE WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF AND PUT UP LOTS OF THEIR PWN MONEY FOR THE CAUSE OF VOTING INTEGRITY...AND THE DEM PARTY IGNORED IT ALL!!

FUCK THEM!

FLY



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

FROM THE FLORIDA FDP CHAIR..


CONTRIBUTE TO HELP CHRISTINE JENNINGS GET EVERY VOTE COUNTED

Dear Florida Democrats,

It wouldn't be a Florida election without ballot problems and a recount, would it?

The Florida Democratic Party needs YOUR help to ensure problems are uncovered and all the votes are counted in the automatic recount that is about to begin in Congressional District 13. Initial returns show less than 400 votes separate Democrat Christine Jennings from her Republican opponent.

Please contribute today to ensure we send Christine Jennings to Congress.

We need help fielding teams of canvassers to go door-to-door to document any problems that occurred in Sarasota County. This effort will cost tens of thousands of dollars to conduct. Will you help us raise $20,000 in the next 48 hours to show the Republicans we are serious about this? We're not going to let them take this seat without a fight.

The latest vote tallies for Congressional District 13 - the seat formerly held by Katherine Harris - have the race down to a razor-thin margin, with Christine down just 364 votes.

"Yet those results might be challenged, as numerous voters reported problems casting ballots. Several said the electronic voting system didn't always show their votes, while others said they didn't even see the race on their ballots."

It appears that thousands of votes in Sarasota County may have gone missing in the District 13 race. The Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported on the serious problem early today:

"The results were loaded with controversy as nearly 13 percent of all ballots cast in Sarasota didn't include a choice for Congress. That difference, and scattered reports of difficulty finding the race on Sarasota's touchscreen ballots, raised concerns about under votes in the race." "(Supervisor of Elections Kathy) Dent said her workers ran a great election and she did not know the exact causes of a 18,000-vote difference between the total number of ballots cast in Sarasota and those cast in the 13th race."

The latest results show that while more than 140,000 Sarasota County voters went to the polls and voted in the race for U.S. Senate, less than 124,000 were recorded for the Congressional race - an unusually large under vote disparity.

According to the latest results:
- In the U.S. Senate race, Democrat Bill Nelson beat Republican Katherine Harris 80,038 to 58,238.

- In the Congressional race, Democrat Christine Jennings beat Republican Vern Buchanan 65,367 to 58,534.
This vote drop-off was not seen in any of the other counties in District 13. Moreover, most of the other countywide elections registered more votes than the hotly contested District 13 - e.g. almost 10,000 more votes were recorded for a county charter amendment than the Congressional race.

Something's not right.

Please contribute what you can today to ensure we figure out what happened and send Christine Jennings to Congress. Your contribution will directly fund field teams on the ground in Sarasota County who will go door-to-door to document any problems that occurred.

Help us raise $20,000 in the next 48 hours to get the recount effort off to a good start. Please contribute now!

Please stay tuned for an update as the situation progresses. Thank you again for your support of a New Direction for America.

Sincerely,

Karen Thurman
Florida Democratic Party

[The Stranger]

14. File a fucking lawsuit and get the courts involved.

We'll see if you can actually count them anyway. Stop the momentum that the criminal GOP seeks in "moving on."

[bullimiami]

15. like sancho said. impound the machines and test them.

if they dont pass have computer experts go through them to see if its poor design or deliberate.

AND

revote that congressional race on paper.

[MessiahRp]

18. Let's see here..

Republicans (First Bush, now this dude) claim victory and tell people to move on when the vote difference is a mere few hundred votes and that's okay....

Democrats claim victory when they're up by six to seven THOUSAND votes that likely would not have been overturned via a recount and somehow they jumped the gun....

Rigggghhhttt....

Rp

[Up2Late]

20. Here's the vote totals from 2004 for comparison. There are a bunch of these...

<http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/results/states/FL/H/13/county.000.html>

..."to close to call Races" still going on right now!

I started a Thread for these under-reported "still undecided" races at this link: <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2947111&mesg_id=2947111>

We need to keep tracking these, we can't just write off the smaller House races!

[Up2Late]

31. Here's the 2002 vote totals too! Looks like at LEAST 18,000 lost votes!

<http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2002/pages/states/FL/H/13/county.000.html>

This is much easier to read at the link above.

County Status Candidate County Vote Vote % Precincts
Charlotte
updated: 4:32 p.m.

Republican Harris
4,775 56% 100% of precincts reporting

Democratic Schneider
3,716 44%
De Soto
updated: 4:32 p.m.

Republican Harris
3,951 55% 100% of precincts reporting

Democratic Schneider
3,186 45%
Hardee
updated: 4:32 p.m.

Republican Harris
3,267 62% 100% of precincts reporting

Democratic Schneider
2,000 38%
Manatee
updated: 4:32 p.m.

Republican Harris
53,336 56% 100% of precincts reporting

Democratic Schneider
41,880 44%
Sarasota
updated: 4:32 p.m.

Republican Harris
73,623 54% 100% of precincts reporting

[robinlynne]

24. we need to get the dem party on this one. This needs national coverage.

[yellowcanine]

25. The summary screens should have been recorded on the machines.

What I understand is that most, if not all, electronic voting machines will record the summary screens that the voter looks at before casting the ballet. These can be printed out, though it will take a while and is a pain in the neck. But with that many undervotes, and the race that close they have to do it if it is possible.

[PsychoDad]

29. In such a case the election should be redone.

damned machines...

Somehow not surprising that this just happens to br Cruella's race.

[file83]

48. I agree.

[PsychoDad]

30. In such a case the election should be redone.

damned machines...

Somehow not surprising that this just happens to br Cruella's race.

[file83]

49. I agree.

:rofl:

[pnorman]

32. Thanks. That's just the sort of link I'm collecting.

Here's another: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2632227

They didn't have the BALLZ to try what they've done on the same scale as past elections, but they haven't stopped. And they were DESPERATE.

pnorman

[BootinUp]

37. Hope they look into this carefully and trash the machine

if the design and operation is poor. THis kind of shit must STOP!

[demo dutch]

39. UPDATE- Name missing on ballot in SE FL using same ES &S machine-see link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2605786&mesg_id=2605786

[Alexander]

41. What about PROVISIONAL ballots?

Seems like they'd be counted in an election this close.

[bunny planet]

43. Very important not to let them get away with this.

Kick
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Megahurtz]

44. Oh, that's gotta be a Last Chance Stab by the ReThugs!

What a crock of shit! So this is what they come up with? :eyes:

[adamuu]

45. okay its time for this to be national news n/t

[demo dutch]

46. FL Dems are trying to race $ for court fight

[barb162]

50. scary story when ANY vote is not counted

Every voter's vote should be counted. Period.

[bobbieinok]

51. isn't there a number close to this 18382 that plays/played some

weird role in Diebold machines in GA2002?????

[billyoc]

53. 18181

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/18181

[Up2Late]

52. WELL, in related news, the GEORGIA 12 count has stopped do to "Computer Problems"

Georgia 12
Updated: 6:02 p.m. ET

Democratic Barrow
(Incumbent)
71,573 50% 99% of precincts reporting

Republican Burns
70,684 50%

<http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/GA/H/12/index.html>

Check out the county they stopped couting the votes in because of "Computer Problems" (BS! He knows he's going to lose, so they stopped the count!)

<http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006//pages/results/states/GA/H/12/county.000.html>

Richmond
Updated: 11:25 a.m. ET

98% of precincts reporting

Democratic Barrow
(Incumbent)
17,009 65%

Republican Burns
9,261 35%

And the REPUBLICAN Wants a RE-COUNT!!!

But, with these Diebold AccuVote TS DRE machines,
IT'S IMPOSABLE!!!! :rofl: :woohoo: :spray: