GM likely to launch new plug-in hybrid

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/11/10/bc.autos.gm.reut/index.html

General Motors Corp. will likely unveil a prototype plug-in hybrid at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in January, a local paper reported Friday.

The advanced technology vehicle would have an extended driving range on battery power and would also have a diesel or gasoline engine that could power the car when the battery was low, the Detroit News said, citing unnamed GM officials.

Plug-in hybrids are gas-electric vehicles that can recharge their batteries with an extension cord and a normal wall outlet.

GM, which is trying to recover from a $10.6 billion loss in 2005 and stop a slide in U.S. market share, has been criticized for relying heavily on gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles. This year, it has also drawn sharp criticism for its decision to kill its EV1 electric car program.

The EV1 was introduced at the 1997 Los Angeles Auto Show and leased to selected customers. But GM pulled the plug on the project in 2002, citing insufficient public support.

[greenman3610]

1. "Who Killed the Electric Car" tells the amazing story

I think the recent downturn has put the fear
of God into GM, and the reason they have been
able to so quickly pirouhette and get this
out is by stoking up the old electric project.

[NEOBuckeye]

2. If GM had been cranking these out 5 years ago, instead of Hummers...

Their future might not appear so bleak today.

[robbibaba]

3. A plug in biodiesel hybrid

is just exactly what I want. If only they can make one that isn't a big giant pile of crap. I looked into their flex-fuel vehicles they made to utilize ethanol, but they were big stuiped Tahoes and got about 12mpg!
If they can use VW style tdi technology and keep to a reasonable size, we could be getting 500mpg--since most trips are within the range of the batteries alone. Hot damn!

[krispos42]

5. Of course it did. E85 has 30% less energy than gasoline

Unless they're selling E85 about 70 cents a gallon cheaper than regular, you're losing money because your price per mile is going up.

I've been advocating this large-battery/small-engine idea for a while. In my concept, the car has a 12 horsepower auxillary engine tied to a 230-volt AC generator that puts out 30 amps, for about 7 kilowatts or about 9¼ horsepower electrical output. It would also have a battery pack capable of about 200 miles, and able to absorb the full 7kw output of the auxillary.

The car's internal electrical system would convert the 230-volt AC power into 300-volt DC power for use either to recharge the battery pack or run the electrical drive motor. The nice thing about his is that the internal electrical system could just as easily convert household 230-volt AC power (like what powers your electric range or dryer) into 300-volt DC car power, so you can plug your car into a dedicated circuit in your garage. Furthermore, because standard 115-volt AC power, the kind that powers your TV and fridge and lamps, can easily be stepped up to 230 volts by a simple transformer in the car's electical system, you could also juice up your car without needing to be at home. You could plug it in anyplace, like say when visiting your aunt's house. Here in the Midwest it is also common to have outdoor plugs so people can plug their engine-block heaters, and you could use the same plugs. The 115-volt plugs only put out a quarter of the power of a 230-volt plug, though, about 1725 watts.

The driver would select either "local" or "long-distance" driving mode. When in "local", the auxillary engine would only kick in and start pumping power to the batteries once the power level dropped to, say, 10%. This way you would just drive the car for a while, then charge it off of your home power grid overnight. It could even have a timer, so it would not start charging until the power had peaked for the day.

When driving further, you put it in "long-distance" mode, and the auxillary tries to keep the battery at 95% charge. While highway cruising, that 9hp would drastically reduce the draw on the battery pack, potentially doubling the driving range. FYI it takes about 20-30 horsepower to maintain highway cruising speeds, depending on speed and vehicle size. That translates into up to perhaps 400 miles unrecharged range, or six highway driving hours.

That 9hp can be used to charge the battery pack while, say, parked at a shopping mall, stuck in traffic, eating lunch, sleeping in a motel, or on a camping trip.

As an added benefit, you could also have plugs in the car someplace to let you run electrical devices off of the car's battery or auxillary. Great to have while camping or during a blackout, or even having a tailgating party!

The auxillary can be a dedicated gasoline, diesel, E85, or propane engine, allowing the use of a variety of traditionally non-automotive fuels. No flex-fuel, though. An engined designed expressly for E85 can use much higher compression ratios than standard gasoline engines, giving a more efficient thermodynamic cycle and making up somewhat for the lower energy density of E85.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. I'll take two

A (bio)diesel/electric is what I've been waiting for.

One of the reasons why these types of vehicles have not been available before was the diesel fuel we use in this country. The US just finished switching to a cleaner diesel fuel, so we are going to have a lot more options soon.

[tammywammy]

12. How does biodiesel do in the CDI engines?

Do you know? I haven't read anything about bio in common rails.

I know about a year or so ago, I read that VW was working on a Jetta gas/electric hybrid. I was quite surprised, since VW had stated before that they're pretty much hard-core diesel. I figured the hybrid would be basically for the US market, since the US is so anti-diesel. I haven't heard anything since. I'll check around today and see if I can dig up anything on it.

What I'd worry about, is the diesel engine does best the longer that it's up and running. I'm getting between 43-36 mpg now in my 06 TDI Beetle, and I drive about 60-75% highway. How would the switching between the diesel and electric effect the mileage (with the current technology that's used for the gas/electric)?

If they could get the diesel/electric to work, I'd definitely be down with that.

[tomreedtoon]

4. And it will go on sale...when all of us have been dead for a century.

I've seen the "research" done by GM in their Disney exhibits. That's as close as most of us can get to the factory floor, and it's the place where they used to show their best.

The big one was the "Lean Machine," a three-wheeled vehicle that tilted when it turned to supposedly add stability. It was enclosed and rainproof, had plenty of room for storage and supposedly got 200 miles per gallon. It also flipped over worse than the company's SUV's.

There were all kinds of other "design concept" cars that couldn't run and were exercises in mushroom hallucination. None of them were made for practicality or usability, only for "style."

I have never seen a project from one of these things get anywhere near an assembly line. Like all large corporations (such as the big media companies that churn out unwatchable TV and movies) they live and function in fear of innovation. GM would rather go bankrupt and be sold out to Toyota than make a functional, practical, ecologically friendly car.

[Kolesar]

6. Front wheel drive, fuel injection, overdrive transmissions, control system fuel metering

...aerodynamics, variable valve timing, constant velocity transmissions, and composite-fiber chassis and body parts are all incremental improvements designed to increase fuel economy that GM has introduced and are important parts of the solution to reducing pollution and fuel consumption.

[tomreedtoon]

19. Remember "with all deliberate speed?"

Which was the statement racist Southerners made about integration?

That's the way GM and all the American auto makers have dealt with fuel economy. Better to sell the suckers on big spinning rims than on saving gas and money. I've seen their "increments." I've also seen vehicles from other countries for whom fuel economy is paramount.

Why the hell didn't GM go into partnership with Cooper and produce an American version of the Mini? Why is that a high-priced Metrosexual-mobile instead of a commonly-available car, made (if not designed) in this country?

[Orsino]

8. They won't even have a picture of a prototype until next year?

They're whistling in the dark.

It's a pity they missed the boat. When we bought two cars in '05, the only American hybrid was an SUV. Our Prius and Accord hybrids were built completely overseas. I would have loved to buy American, but America didn't know about fuel efficiency. For the next couple of years, it'll be mostly vaporware.

Breaking: all God's chilluns to get shoes.

[Kolesar]

9. There is more to be gained by making big vehicles fuel efficient than compacts...eom

[Orsino]

11. I certainly won't slam the Escape hybrid...

It's just that any ordinary cars I would have bought would have been more efficient than that one. Without the need for an SUV, I couldn't justify burning more gas just to drive a hybrid.

While I wish that my purchases could have benefited more Americans than my dealers, I can hope that by driving up hybrid sedan sales, I've helped point Detroit in that direction. Hybrids are not the solution to petroleum dependency, but breaking the guzzler habit (or even cracking it a little) is a worthwhile goal. I think.

[hatrack]

14. Unless people stop buying big vehicles, of course . . .

:hi:

[Kolesar]

18. Americans are crazy if they think they will have a wonderful world of motoring in 30 years

I recall visiting Europe in the 1970s, and people of modest means bought modest cars to serve their purposes, and not gigant-o-vehicles designed to cross several states in a day's drive. There was about no oil production in Spain, and Britain had the North Sea petroleum, but they knew that was going to play out. So, you are right.

[AndyTiedye]

22. We Need to Rebuild Our Rail System

They don't have to drive everywhere in Europe because the trains go everywhere.

[Lisa]

20. no kidding -- not only did they miss the boat ...

... but they showed up at the dock a couple of hours after the boat had weighed anchor and vanished over the horizon, and the ticket guy had closed the office and gone home to dinner. And there's GM, whining because American consumers finally got fed up with waiting and got on the Japanese boat, rather than be left at the quayside too.

Their customers, and even some of their own employees (as in the "Who Killed the Electric Car" movie mentioned earlier) had not only set the alarm for them, but pounded on their front door until they woke up and staggered out of bed. And they still didn't make the sailing!

[Ian David]

7. I don't care. I am DONE with GM. I hope the company kicks the bucket. n/t

[Auggie]

23. I hope not. They're paying my parents retirement.

[Ian David]

25. Yeah, I know. I should shut-up and donate blood instead. n/t

[high density]

13. Screw that crap, bring on the hydraulic hybrid

Who wants to plug in their car AND gas it up? What are they doing? Pandering to the power companies now in addition to mother Exxon Mobil?

[goforit]

15. Prius and hondas are light years ahaed. Plug-ins are for the ignorant.

[Tesha]

27. Driving your car on wind, solar, or hydroelectric power is for the ignorant?

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Tesha

[skids]

28. I must be ignorant then.

Because as soon as I have cash to spare and my new one goes off warranty, I'll be putting a plug-in kit in.

On the subject of ignorance, I wonder whether it is more ignorant to believe something you may have heard on some other discussion board from a big-oil FUD NetVocate astroturf troll, or to actually look at the numbers put forth from both sides of the argument.

Even when charged from coal, PHEVs are better than gas.

[buddysmellgood]

29. Please explain your post or apologize.

[Porcupine]

16. This post is a dupe.

Original post here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x71594

[TankLV]

17. Is it called the LIEberman?

[SKKY]

21. Make this 1,000,001 times I've said this...

...If Brazil can become energy independent, why can't we?

[daleo]

24. This is the automotive version of vaporware

I will believe it when I see it in the showroom (and not just the odd demo model).

[jpwhite]

26. this is better than nothing

I hope that GM will realize that they screwed up by not putting more money into hybrid research. But at the same time I would rather they do a plug-in version than to do nothing at all. They need to do more, but this is a good start. Until we can get the infrastructure in place to do hydrogen cars this is a good transition vehicle. The best way to compliment this is to use more solar power on our homes to supplement the electricity used by the plug in cars.

James
[e-mail]

[billyoc]

30. I'm buying an Escape.

The NYC cabbies I know that drive them say they're paying 1/2 as much for the day's gas with the Escape.