A taxing ride may be ahead for Pa. (heads up PA Duers)

[radfringe]

A taxing ride may be ahead for Pa.
A report recommends raising the gas tax 12.5 cents a gallon for roads, bridges and transit.
By Larry King | Philadelphia Inquirer Staff Writer
Tue, Nov. 14, 2006

HARRISBURG - Higher gas taxes. Steeper car registration fees. Hikes in local realty transfer taxes, wage taxes or sales taxes. Perhaps even a lease of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

That politically risky prescription for fixing Pennsylvania's crumbling network of roads and bridges and ailing public transit was presented to state legislators yesterday by a bipartisan advisory commission. At least $1.7 billion in new funding annually, the panel said, is needed to prop up the transportation system.

---snip---

The commission's report recommends raising the state wholesale fuel tax by 11.5 cents per gallon - all or part it could be passed on to consumers - and hiking vehicle registration and license fees, although the amounts were not specified. That, coupled with $120 million in efficiencies, should net about $900 million more per year for roads and bridges, Biehler said.

[screembloodymurder]

1. This is a good idea.

Make driving more expensive, fewer SUV's on the road, less wear and tear on the highways, reduced replacement cost, and ultimately lower taxes. Raise taxes now and save money.

[BluGrl]

2. And then...

People won't be able to afford to drive to/for work. Small business will flounder and close. More unemployment and finally...Big Corporate will be the only ones able to afford to stay in business and they will move all their jobs overseas!

Brilliant!

[Tempest]

3. Yawn

How many times have we heard this B.S.?

Funny how the rightwing make these claims and yet every time taxes increase, it never happens.


I remember when no-smoking laws in restaurants were proposed and people like you were making all kinds of gloom and doom predictions.

The fact is, after the no-smoking laws in California took effect restaurant receipts increased. This was repeated across the nation as the laws were passed.

[BluGrl]

11. It's not BS.

Especially if your job or business is dependent upon a truck. Some businesses can pass the expenses off to the consumer with higher prices but that's a risk, too. The bottom line is that the little people get screwed while those with the big bux are able to absorb the costs and push out the little guy. I should know!

[krispos42]

7. If you don't fix the roads, businesses leave.

I would suggest that the PA legislature make the increase temporary, like a 10-year increase.

[RamboLiberal]

8. And if you keep overtaxing the population they leave

This state needs to fix Penndot first. They built some beautiful roads here - and have failed in many cases to attract business.

A for instance is the Mon Fayette Expressway - great road to nowhere. Almost devoid of other vehicles every time I'm on it. But before they could build it where it was most needed - Pittsburgh - they claim they ran out of money. That stretch they thrown millions down a black hole for over a decade in planning, even opening an office in an old pizza hut and no road.

Then we have the unending orange barrel season - Penndot and their contractors are the slowest bunch in history.

One highway near my home - they've been repaving a stretch of about 3 miles for the last friggin' 3 years and finally this year they finished. This summer they finished one section and a month later they were back ripping up the new asphalt and having to do over cause it didn't meet specs. Amazing!

Bah humbug on giving Penndot more money till they get their act together.

I'm getting sick of every year more government agencies and private industries i.e. insurance and utilities having their hand out taking whatever money I gained in a salary increase and more.

They are bleeding the middle class.

[krispos42]

14. Well, more money won't help incompetence

Can't whitewash idiocy with greenbacks. Sounds like the governor needs to shake-up PennDOT, maybe revamp the bureaucracy and the priorities.

Past that, well, I guess start taxing the rich more. This is why I like federal highway money. It's a lot harder to leave the country than move to a neighboring state to avoid a tax!

A generation or two ago, they used to tax the rich at damn near 100% over a certain level of income. The idea being to discourage ginormous salaries, like movie stars getting $20 million movie deals and baseball players getting $10 million a year contracts and CEOs getting $400 million retirement payouts. It's probably time for use to realize that a huge class of really wealthy people a) get their wealth by sucking the middle class dry, and b) are really bad for the well-being of the nation overall.

[screembloodymurder]

21. Have you ever driven in PA.

We've got the worst roads in the US. Maybe the new casinos could be taxed, but the money has to come from somewhere.

[bleedingheart]

20. I would like to see some of the business tax cuts reduced to help

as well...PA has given a lot of money to businesses ...in fact Ridge reduced the amount for public schooling from 50 down to around 36%...and that excess money went to corporate tax giveaways...now we have road problems and they want us to dole out more.

Sony, US Airways...there is a long list of companies that have gotten tax breaks, and even big state grants that amount to millions and for what...to bribe them into keeping the jobs around just a bit longer before they shut down???

Sony just closed here in Westmoreland County...I wonder how many millions the state dumped into that ....

[Patiod]

22. Temporary like the Johnstown Flood tax?

Tried to have wine shipped from a vineyard we were visiting in California, and we would have had to pay a 24% "Johnstown Flood" tax on alcohol + 6% sales tax.

Not objecting to all the fundraising ideas, but taxes are NEVER temporary.

/wishing I still worked 10 minutes from the Delaware state line...mmmm....cheap gas......

[krispos42]

24. Wow, 24%?

Well, taxes can be temporary if they put it in the law. The Democrats did it with the Clinton Assault-Weapons Ban.

But it HAS to be in the bill, and the governor and legislatures HAVE to have the balls to reject it without a time limit.

[RamboLiberal]

6. Good Idea - NOT

Yeah, we know gas will head up over $3 again next summer - and PA wants to put this hefty tax increase on us.

Let's try reducing the size of the bloated PA legislature first. And getting rid of all the damn perks that legislature gets like their big rental SUV's, lavish meal money and WAMS.

PA roads and PennDot have been a joke for nearly as long as I've been alive. WV shares a similar topography yet when I drive over the line their roads are beautiful.

Or where I see really nice but nearly empty 4 lanes is in the middle of nowhere in PA. But finish the damn Mon Fayette expressway so we could bypass the piss-poor design and tunnels of the Parkway - nah, we're out of money.

I'm getting sick of promises from people like Rendell who as soon as elected let's raise the income tax, don't reduce the property tax and give it up the ass to those of us who are struggling now to put gas in the car.

The Port Authority transportation(bus/trolley) in Pittsburgh has been mismanaged from day one. Oh, but we can find the money to build a stupid subway tunnel under the river to serve the North Shore - which is nothing but a short walk over a bridge.

This is the kind of thing that pisses taxpayers like myself off.

I held my nose to vote for Rendell. If the Repubs had run a better candidate than Swann I'd have been tempted.

I may be a Dem, but damn I'm fighting this one. I'm sick of PA's legislature and politics.

[bleedingheart]

16. The amount of Pork funneled to West Virginia is the big difference

and ....the type of traffic in West Virginia.

West Virginia doesn't see the kind of trucking traffic we see here in PA, that alone causes more wear and tear on highways.

I agree about the bloated legislature, the excess perks..etc but that alone won't pay for this.

I would like to see some big time pork find its way to PA....because unlike a bridge to nowhere in Alaska...the road pork here could make a substantial difference.

[bleedingheart]

17. dupe.

[Patiod]

23. Yeah, good luck getting legistlators who passed pay hikes

to cut their own perks. Bunch of greedy f$cks.

And I'm with you - I actually went door-to-door, campaigning for Rendell in 2002, but might have voted for a Republican if they had run one whose priority was to clean up the PA legislature.

[nerddem]

9. not everyone out there drives suvs

and ultimately if people have enough money to buy an suv in the first place, a gas tax hike probably won't hurt them too much. this will mostly hurt lower-income people that have to rely on their cars because (in my case in philly) using septa is actually more expensive than driving.

yeah, it's nice to think that you'll push off the lawyer driving a hummer, but really it'll more likely be the single mother driving the 1986 ford escort.

[tabasco]

4. PA needs to dismantle PennDot and start back at the blackboard.

They can't seem to get that thing fixed.

[happyslug]

10. Dismantle Penndot like PA did with the old Highway Department

By giving it a new name and some extra duties? Lets be real, SOMEONE has to build these roads, Penndot is doing a good job of maintaining and building roads. As to the "Highway to nowhere" the Mon-Valley Expressway, it was authorized by the State Legislature and had always been under funded. The reason is the cost to build ANY Road in Western Pennsylvania is Expensive do to the Topography (i.e. the hills) and the fact almost every part of Western Pennsylvania has been under-mined sometime in the last 200 years. Both problems INCREASE as you get nearer Pittsburgh AND you then add in the extra cost of building a highway through a built up Residential area.

The problem is ourselves, People want solution to the economy and for the last 50 years that has meant new highways. At the same time you have people who do NOT want to lose their homes do to new construction of such highways. Who resolves these disputes? While the State Legislature. Why don't the State Legislature resolve the issue? They want to get re-elected. Thus the state legislature avoids hard decision if at all possible. A smaller Legislature would actually make this worse, for each representative would have a larger number of people he would have to please to get elected (Thus I support getting rid of the State Senate but not touching the State Assembly, but the State Senate will not vote for its own demise even through it is the younger of the two bodies, made part of the State Constitution about 100 years AFTER the State Assembly was formed by William Penn).

Anyway until the reason Penndot gets nothing done is that the State Legislature restricts HOW the money is spent. Complaining about Penndot and the size of the State Legislature does NOT solve the problem. Getting people to accept the costs involved is the key. For example do most of the people on this Board from Pennsylvania support Spending almost 1 Billion Dollars to build a LRV line between Downtown Pittsburgh and Oakland? These are the # 2 and #3 stops in Pennsylvania (#1 is Downtown Philadelphia). Such a construction would be disruptive but help resolve the transportation mess between Downtown Pittsburgh and Oakland by taking the buses that run on Fifth and Forbes off those streets. Why little or no support? For one billion dollars is a lot of money for a 5 mile long Trolley line. It would be the best thing for Pittsburgh but the rest of the County will ask where's theirs? and we are back fighting over how to pay for the line. The best solution would be to convert as follows:
1. Convert the East and West Busways to run LRVs,
2. Run LRV lines along the old Pennsylvania Railroad line down the Ohio Valley then cross the Ohio to the Airport,
3. Run LRVs up the Allegheny River and
4. Running a LRV line along East Street to the North Hills
thus everyone has a LRV near to their home.

The cost of such a program could be 4 to 5 billion dollars, but would remove a lot of Cars from the Highways. Why is it NOT supported? You need a consensus for such a plan to be adopted and until people start to DEMAND such a plan to be adopted the local politicians will NOT act. The same with paying the money to expand the Mon-Valley Expressway, until people start to say finish it and raise taxes to finish it, the Highway till not connect to anything.

[tabasco]

12. OK. Whatever.

I've lived in several states and PA had the worst roads.

They just keep making excuses year after year, decade after decade.

Taxes are high enough in PA that the roads should be better. That is another thing that bugged me about PA. Tax bills from about six different entities. Good grief.

Other than that, I love Pittsburgh, love the Steelers, and graduated from PITT ! :hi:

[RamboLiberal]

13. West Virginia has same topography and mines

Beautiful roads. Maybe Robert Byrd is the difference. Also noticed good roads here in PA in Murtha and Shuster's districts.

PA has 11th highest gasoline taxes now. WV is a few places below PA. Like I said I'm getting sick of the Harrisburg bunch and taxes.

Believe me if they try this they will regret it, the voters here are still in an angry mood since the pay raise and have become more politically aware.

[happyslug]

18. West Virginia has less Highways than Penndot

Penndot has the largest number of State maintained roads in the Nation. This is do to the Legislature taking over roads that in most states are maintained by local municipalities. Furthermore some of the Gasoline Tax go to the local Municipalities to pay for maintains of their own roads (And this is based on a ratio adopted in 1928, which gives more money to rural areas than urban areas, changes to the formula is opposed by Rural legislators thus it is used every year to allocate these funds).

I have seen one lane country roads that are clearly marked with State signature showing that they are maintained by Penndot NOT the local municipalities. I have seen inner city roads that the local Mayor, tied of getting calls from Citizens complaining about the road had signs installed stating the road was "State Maintained" (Mayor Falterly during the early 1970s in regards to PA 885 through Hazel wood Section of Pittsburgh).

As to West Virginia doing as better job than Penndot, as to the Interstates I do not see it, as to other major Highways they are about the same. The Real difference is that once you get away from those in West Virginia you are looking at roads NOT maintained by the state, while in Pennsylvania those same roads are state Maintained (And while it may have changed since the last time I looked into the State Police Fundings, but the State Police for years were paid for by Penndot Road taxes while the tickets they wrote went to the General Fund).

Most of the above is caused by that Stupid State Constitutional amendment passed during WWII that restrict Gasoline Taxes to Highway use. Such tax funds can not be used for Mass Transit (And for years Penndot held it was even illegal to use such funds to remove Streetcar tracks from State highways to their own private Right of way, but legal to remove them and replace the streetcars with buses).

My point here is the problem is NOT Penndot but our State Legislatures failing to do its job of taking the heat to make hard decisions. The State Legislature is willing to follow what lobbyists wants (Thus more funding for Rural roads do to the fact most money goes to Contractors not home owners AND such constructing increase the value of the land the new Highway goes through)) but not make decisions such as funding the completion of the Mon-Valley Expressway when the costs are high. The only solution is to put heat on the State Legislature to do their job but that is a lot harder than complaining about Penndot.

[bleedingheart]

19. I will attest to the fact that the local governments have dumped

more roads upon the state to reduce their own tax bills.

In fact there is talk in our local town of dumping yet another bad road onto PennDot because the local authority doesn't want to take care of it anymore and it needs a lot of work.

As for subsidence...there are at least two roads in my township that have been either shutdown due to mining and the fact that the roads were built along hillsides and have just naturally started to fall..

[WePurrsevere]

5. Here's a link to the story...

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/pennsylvania/counties/chester_county/16005423.htm

:hi:

[bleedingheart]

15. Well....we have the roads, we have the problems, we have to pay

but I think we need to get some Pork from Washington to help with this.....so Senator Casey...I think it is time to roll up the sleeves.

Money doesn't grow on trees and roadworkers won't work for nothing and concrete, asphalt, and other materials aren't free.