'Mushroom cloud' blast destined for Nevada desert, senator says

[NVMojo]

LAS VEGAS (AP) - If the government goes ahead with plans for a non-nuclear explosion to test bunker-buster bombs it will be in Nevada, not in New Mexico, Sen. Pete Domenici said Wednesday.

The New Mexico Republican, a member of the Senate Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, issued a statement in Washington, D.C., saying the Defense Threat Reduction Agency had decided not to conduct the "Divine Strake" test at the White Sands Missile Range.

He said DTRA "prefers" a plan to conduct the test at the Nevada Test Site, a vast Energy Department reservation north of Las Vegas where plans for the blast have been stalled by a federal lawsuit.

Domenici did not identify a date for the test, which a government lawyer recently told a federal judge won't take place until after Feb. 1.

The Defense Threat Reduction Agency would not directly address Domenici's claim.

more...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2006/nov/15/111510525.html

[babylonsister]

1. I wonder what his motive is for releasing this. nt

[NVMojo]

3. Yucca Mtn? Reid?

[gaja]

2. first test here

to build a parking lot over there

[Gloria]

4. Whew, living over the mountain from White Sands, I'm happy over

the change.

God knows what else IS going on here, though....

[sutz12]

5. This bullshit again?

Everybody knows this is a prelim test for a 1 kiloton nuclear weapon. Nothing else makes any sense. The amount of explosive in the test is so great that it is not feasible to deliver it as conventional weapons.

Hopefully, after January, the Dems can put the squelch on this abomination.

[lonestarnot]

8. I thought we were already up to a higher number of kilotons that 1.

What is the highest number of kilotons tested?

[Crim_n al]

16. The largest Nuke ever tested was the Russian Tsar Bomb.

It was designed to be 100 megatons, but the bomb was altered for the test to reduce the yield by 50%.

Even at that size the flash was visible for 1000 kilometers,
the mushroom cloud rose 64 k,
there was complete destruction for a radius of 35 k,
it was able to cause 3rd degree burns for a radius of 100 k, and
houses were destroyed hundreds of k away from the blast area.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Russia/TsarBomba.html



The one kiloton Nevada test is just to test the effects of a nuclear bunker buster,
not anything like this.

[lonestarnot]

35. It's that metric system again!

:rofl: Kilo mega whoop. and boom get them mixed up, but not what they do.

[Crim_n al]

40. Sorry, I'm an Aussie :-(

A kilometer is a little under half a mile, a kilo is a little under 2 pounds.

I think if that bomb dropped on us, the exact size would not be our primary concern anyway. ;)

[lonestarnot]

41. I would say you are definitely speculating in the right direction on

that accounting! :rofl: "Get under your desk and put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye."

[NVMojo]

9. yep, they shelved it for after the election ...interesting

[formercia]

17. If you detonate the conventional explosive

at the same time as the mini nuke, it will confuse the seismic signature. Look for a double peak in the sig.

[Crim_n al]

20. That's an interesting possibility.

Though I doubt Buschco care enough about what anyone thinks
to bother hiding what they are doing.

[formercia]

23. They get a lot of pleasure out of screwing people

and hanging them out to dry. They would probably do it just to see if they could get away with it.

[Nihil]

36. Only if you actually detonate a heap of conventional explosive ...

... rather than just a mini-nuke and a whole bunch of boxes marked
"ACME Explosive Company" ...

Not that people should doubt the word of their government of course.
We've seen how trustworthy they've been for years now ... *exactly* how
trustworthy they've been for years ...

[formercia]

37. A nuclear ground burst would be detectable

Short-lived isotopes of the lighter Elements that would not be present in the background dust in any quantity..

[Tellurian]

6. He is genuinely afraid..

so is everyone else!

You are not alone..Senator..

[SpiralHawk]

7. Don't want no stinkin Mushroom Cloud in America, or anywhere

with the possible exception of the Imperial Pig Farm Upon Crawford.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. But, but, but that would also take out Larry Mattlage!

:cry:









http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/15/bush.neighbor/index.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. I love "Defence Threat Reduction Agency" - good and Orwellian

somehow you wouldn't expect a group with that title to be doing testing for low yield nuclear weapons, would you?

[GregW]

11. Must be time for some Tom Lehrer...

The Wild West is Where I Want to Be

Along the trail you'll find me lopin'
Where the spaces are wide open,
In the land of the old A.E.C. (yea-hah!)
Where the scenery's attractive,
And the air is radioactive,
Oh, the wild west is where I wanna be.

Mid the sagebrush and the cactus,
I'll watch the fellas practice
Droppin' bombs through the clean desert breeze.
I'll have on my sombrero,
And of course I'll wear a pair o'
Levis over my lead B.V.D.'s.

Ah will leave the city's rush,
Leave the fancy and the plush,
Leave the snow and leave the slush
And the crowds.
Ah will seek the desert's hush,
Where the scenery is lush,
How I long to see the mush-
room clouds.

'Mid the yuccas and the thistles
I'll watch the guided missiles,
While the old F.B.I. watches me. (yea-hah!)
Yes, I'll soon make my appearance
(Soon as I can get my clearance),
'Cause the wild west is where I wanna be.

[MiniMe]

24. Thought you were going to have "Who's Next" in there : )

First we got the bomb and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's O.K.,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way!
Who's next?

France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
'Cause they're on our side (I believe).
China got the bomb, but have no fears;
They can't wipe us out for at least five years!*
Who's next?

Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right:
One for the black and one for the white!**
Who's next?

Egypt's gonna get one, too,
Just to use on you know who.
So Israel's getting tense,
Wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd," says the psalm,
But just in case, we better get a bomb!
Who's next?

Luxembourg is next to go
And, who knows, maybe Monaco.
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb!
Who's next, who's next, who's next?
Who's next?

[EC]

12. Okay, I've got a question?

If this is a bunker buster, isn't it foolhardy to set it off anywhere near a fault line?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. No.

Because bunkers and fault lines are utterly different things.

[Crim_n al]

14. That's correct. No airplane has yet been developed

which can transport fault lines to the appropriate locations and drop them on the unsuspecting populace.

But, give'em time ...

However, dropping a bunker buster into a fault line can have interesting results.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Airplanes don't transport bunkers, either.

Dropping bunker busters on fault lines results in a big explosion. Same thing that happens when you drop one out in the middle of a craton.

[Crim_n al]

18. The OSS, forerunner to the CIA, apparently disagreed with you

when they studied the possibility of using "large explosive devices" dropped into a fault line to trigger a tsunami in Japan towards the end of WW2.

According to documents released under freedom of information:

"with the possibility of collecting this data, now arises the question of where to place this large explosive charge."...

"If we could get a bomb within a mile of a point on a fault destined to break within 90 years we might set it off ..."

The statements of these men, prominent scientists in their field, testify to the plausibility of "triggering" a potential earthquake condition by intensified and accurate bombings. This plausibility is further substantiated by actual tests conducted at the Palmer Physical Laboratory. Here, high explosive charges were studied with a view to their effect on these earthquake conditions.
It was the results of this study that brought the possibility of triggering a potential earthquake condition from the realm of fantasy to that of scientific plausibility.


http://www.vialls.com/cia/oss_earthquakes.html

[NVMojo]

32. you all realize this will happen on the NV test site next to Yucca Mtn?

[Crim_n al]

38. I do, yes. Only absolute morans would explode devices

of that size near fault lines.

But common sense is unlikely to stop a cabal of idiots
who don't give a damn what damage they cause.

[Crim_n al]

19. Yes. See post 18. n/t

[EC]

26. Thanks for the redemption

the other posters were treating me like a dummy...

[Crim_n al]

39. No prob. If we each dig up some facts and share them,

and ignore the idiots who seem to have nothing to contribute
apart from ridiculing anyone who questions what "the authorities"
are doing, we can each learn a heap in forums.

[sweetheart]

21. teapot clouds for russian bunkers

Everyone knows the bunker buster is for preemptive war with russia, and why russia is
renovating all its warheads and preparing for the new nazis to keep at it.



This bomb is not for iran, its for a new cold war, missile defense, a perfect spear and a
perfect shield as the ultimate cover for dastardly war crimes.

[daleo]

22. Kicking up the dust at the old Nevada test site?

Might that not be dangerous, if there are isotopes with 50 year half-lives buried in the soil there?

[hedgehog]

25. I was wondering about that, too.

True story - back when we were doing atmospheric testing, a group of students at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute outside of Albany , NY went out with geiger counters one day for another reason entirely and ended up documenting fall out all over the city, especially on the rough surfaces of brick buildings. Kodak in Rochester had a problem with al the new film being returned because the fall out had clouded it.

[daleo]

29. Fogging film - that sounds pretty bad

It makes you wonder how bad the fallout was in those days. Those pictures of soldiers marching into test areas shortly after blasts are still amazing.

[hedgehog]

30. I wonder about it every time I hear of someone who has leukemia.

Of course, the fallout in the 50's and 60's has nothing to do with breast cancer today!

Whenever someone denigrates John Kennedy, I mention that at least he stopped the air tests.

[Strelnikov_]

33. ..

The figure shows the relative 14C / 12C ratio in the atmospheric CO2 as a function of time in the second half of the 20th century.

The plot was generated with gnuplot from data of atmospheric radiocarbon in Wellington, New Zealand 1954AD to 1993AD and in Vermunt, Austria 1959AD to 1983AD. The SVG file from gnuplot has been improved manually.

The data sources provide the data as D14C. For the plot the absolute percent modern value has been calculated assuming that each measurement was done in the same year as the respective sample was taken.

[daleo]

34. Interesting plot - it took 30 years to get back to base (more or less)

It makes sense - even after eliminating atmospheric testing it took a long time for the products already in the atmosphere to decay. It's sobering, when you think about greenhouse gases, and how long they will stick around even if we somehow quit adding so many to the atmosphere every year.

[slackmaster]

27. Headline is an appeal to emotion

Even very small explosions, like an old-fashioned M-80 firecracker, will produce a mushroom cloud under the right conditions.

[hedgehog]

31. It's true that not every mushroom cloud indicates a nuclear explosion.

That's what confused a lot of people looking at photos of the ammo dump fires in Iraq few weeks back. However, since this explosion is meant to simulate a nuclear blast and may end up stirring up some old dust, I think the shorthand is appropriate in this case.