Top US commander: "It's too soon to say we have failed" in Iraq

[sabra]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/18/america/NA_GEN_US_Iraq_Commander.php

Top US commander: "It's too soon to say we have failed" in Iraq

CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts: The war in Iraq and the wider war against extremists in the Middle East is the defining conflict of the generation, and one the United States and its allies cannot afford to walk away from, the top U.S. commander for the Middle East told a Harvard University forum Friday.

Gen. John Abizaid, likened the 21st century battle against extremists to the great ideological and political clashes of the 20th century.

"Think of it as a chance to confront fascism in 1920, if we had only had the guts to do it," Abizaid said.

As difficult as the war in Iraq is at the moment, Abizaid said United States has little choice but to try to find a way to help Iraqis defeat insurgents and quell increasing sectarian violence and private militias in the country.

Despite the sobering realities, Abizaid said there is reason to believe that the situation in Iraq will ultimately stabilize. He said extremists in the region, including Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida, have yet to go "mainstream."

[pinerow]

1. However, it's not too early to say...we ain't winnin'...

nt

[saigon68]

26. Abizaid is the little stable boy and catamite to the POWERFUL NEOCONS

He cares nothing about the thousands who have died. The Scum is about to throw thousands more into the fire.

Just look up JUBA 2 to see how they are dying.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

48. Got that fucking right on the money.

Ganymede

[buddysmellgood]

34. and it's never too soon to say "Mission Accomplished"

[tabasco]

2. I don't think the general has enough combat experience.

This guy's combat (actual ass in the grass) experience consists of Grenada. Wow.

Maybe the good general should get out of the green zone and go on more patrols with the grunts.

[MichiganVote]

3. And its too late in the day to say we'll win a damn thing

[HaggardsMethDealer]

4. lala land...

I think I will continue to think of it as an imperial land and resource grab, Abizaid.

[NOLADEM]

5. So sad the decline in propaganda

Six months Tops.
Greeted with flowers as liberators.
WMD's will be found in days.
Mission Accomplished.
We'll find em, its a big country.
Violence popping up, but its only in the Sunni Triangle (where people live).
Only a few dead-enders.
We should fire Rummy.
Just kidding.
Iraqis like us, but foreign terrorists are infiltrating Iraq.
Ok, you got us...No weapons. Our bad.
New mission everybody...Jeffersonian Democracy with a flat tax.
Things aren't that bad, Democrats are just negative.
Ok, things are bad, but when we capture Saddam, things will improve.
Ok, things are bad, but when we kill Zarqawi, things will improve.
Ok, things are bad, but when we hold elections, things will improve.
We should fire Rumsfeld. Never mind.
Ok, things are bad, but when we capture Al Qaeda in Iraq's number 2, things will improve.(Repeat)
Ok, things are bad, but when the new government takes office, things will improve.
Ok, just kidding about the first government, but this new one kicks ass.
Ok, things are bad, but when we try and convict Saddam, things will improve.
Shit's bad, but calling it a Civil War? C'mon, no blue OR gray uniforms.
Ok, Civil War is coming but it ain't here yet.
Stay the course. Cutting and Running is the same as quitting.
We NEVER said 'Stay the Course'. That doesn't reflect our flexibility.
We love Rummy and he will be here until 08.
Supporting Democrats is supporting terrorist appeasers.
Oh shit, nice landslide.
We are happy to discuss options.
Rummy you are fired. Just kidding about that 'here until 08' shit.

[Amonester]

31. Add "They are in their last throes." somewhere in there.

We all know who said that propagandist idiocy and when he (the dicktraitorturer) said it. :grr:
That's A Quick Summary Of Vietnam 2. :cry:
Titanically Tragic Too. :mad:

[NOLADEM]

33. Shit, you're right.

Thanks.

[Lost-in-FL]

6. Somebody wants

a 5th star...

Maybe that is why he is kissing some ass.

[fairfaxvadem]

7. If I hear this "ideological battle" crap one more time I'll puke...

At least, in terms of one that we can fight. We could have kept these folks marginalized for quite a long time. But no, we had to go give them a big platform: Iraq.

Thanks General. You're just such a big help here.

This has gone way beyond any outcome that we could possibly control.

[grytpype]

8. Um, who were we supposed to bomb in 1920?

Was there a beer hall in Bavaria somewhere that we were supposed to blow up if only we had the guts?

[PurityOfEssence]

43. Mussolini, so he wouldn't come to power two years later

I guess.

The inane prattlings of the pompous just wear one down, don't they?

[jannyk]

9. WTF?!

"Despite the sobering realities, Abizaid said there is reason to believe that the situation in Iraq will ultimately stabilize. He said extremists in the region, including Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida, have yet to go "mainstream."

When did Bin Laden arrive in Iraq? Last I heard he was wandering in the wilderness of the Afghan/Pakistan border.

And what the hell have Sunnis killing Shiites killing Kurds killing Sunnis - all of them hating and killing each other over thousand year old grievences, got in common with facism? And let us not forget that Al-Qaida was unknown in Iraq until we imported it.

Are these people so removed from reality, history, and fact as they portray themselves? Or do they truly believe we are that stupid and uninformed?

Meanwhile the Taliban (with real, not imaginary, Al-Qaida connections) is re-taking Afghanistan and we've just about lost there too. A little peek in recent history books, or a quiet word with the Brits or Ruskies, could have predicted how that one was going to go.

Facism my arse. Abizaid is just trying to put lipstick on the pig, thinking we'll all line up to kiss it. However, the only facism we have to worry about is that of the Bush administration,and that fight we've started winning.

[damntexdem]

10. Really? Then how many years after the ...

failure do we have to wait to admit it? It has already been over three years.

[daleo]

11. It will take five more years, 10000 dead Americans and half a million dead Iraqis

Then we will have certainty, according to this lot.

[Karenina]

15. There are nearly a MILLION dead Iraqis NOW...

[daleo]

35. Yeah, I meant 500,000 more. n/t

[radfringe]

12. media's fault

He also suggested that soldiers on the front lines are more hopeful of a good outcome than the American public is according to some polls, a disconnect he blamed in part on the "24-7 news cycle" that he said tends to highlight the latest bombings or kidnappings.

[LynnTheDem]

21. U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately.

85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” Just 24% said that “establishing a democracy that can be a model for the Arab World" was the main or a major reason for the war.

http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Yes, Abby, the troops sound so "hopeful".

Asshole.

[Zero Division]

13. What's the acceptable cost to these people?

In terms of our troops' lives, the Iraqi's lives, the US budget, alternative opportunities for the money, etc.? Someone needs to get these people to give us an answer, because I often get the feeling that people like Abizaid might never accept that stabilizing Iraq via foreign occupation is a lost cause. They seem to believe that the US and its allies in Iraq are really fighting a conventional war. It's time they gave us a real answer.

[MGD]

14. We need to start firing incompetent officers and replacing them with fresh blood

The security of the green zone shouldn't shield them from the threat of a pink slip as well as the threat of danger.

[Gin]

16. "ultimately".........is the operative word...............VietNam "ultimately"

stabilized too....once we left.

[Disturbed]

17. Rumsfailed is a freakin' War Criminal but he was right about

at least one thing. He said that a situation like Iraq would take at least 10 to 12 years to settle. Will the American people wait that long?

[MGD]

18. While there are obvious similarities between Iraq and Vietnam, "ultimately"

they are different wars. There was no real strategic imnportance to Vietnam. That is not the case with Iraq.

[AIJ Alom]

19. Somebody please tell the conventional 20th century warrior that

his rules of engagement no longer apply. Get out now. Let the cards fall where they may like South Vietnam. Let the Iraqi people determine how to govern themselves. We've given them the revolution, now they must endure the civil war. It is unfortunate that we must swallow this bitter pill.

[LynnTheDem]

20. Abizaid, can't you ever JUST ONCE grow the balls to tell the TRUTH?

No, didn't think so, toady.

You always have been a little asshole. No wonder bush loves ya.

[ShortnFiery]

22. Yes, I can hardly wait ...

for Marine General, one each, Peter "Pan" Pace to chime in with the same song and dance.

It won't work. Our kids are dying for an invasion based on LIES. :thumbsdown:

This is THEIR (The Iraqis) Country and the kindest thing we can do NOW is LEAVE and let them sort it out on their own. Perhaps, just perhaps, with leaders of integrity in our government, they will not blame future generations for this horrific International War Crime of invading a sovereign country. Perhaps.

Oh, but those who have the power make the laws. Fine. We won! Now let's extract our troops out of that hell hole? :grr:

[ronnie624]

28. The stupid MFer needs a history lesson as well.

Gen. John Abizaid, likened the 21st century battle against extremists to the great ideological and political clashes of the 20th century.

"Think of it as a chance to confront fascism in 1920, if we had only had the guts to do it," Abizaid said.

"Guts" indeed. The very same corporatist political element that has brought us the invasion of Iraq, was far too busy profiteering from fascism in Italy and Germany to be concerned about confronting it.

Idiot.

[oblivious]

23. "He warned of increased sectarian violence should U.S. troops begin to withdraw."

As if staying there is keeping a lid on it or something.

[tabasco]

24. Lemme give the general a history lesson.

Dear General Abizaid:

The AGGRESSORS in that big showdown with the fascists you were talking about LOST THE WAR.

WE are the aggressors now, and we lost the war the second it began.

I hope that clears things up for you.

PS - stop comparing a JUST WAR, that my dad and uncles fought in, with an UNJUST WAR that a traitorous domestic faction started for corporate profits.

Remember your leadership traits, General. There is one in there called moral courage and you seem to need improvement in that area.

[saigon68]

27. He has no Moral Courage

He is a Yellow pencil pushing Coward

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Well then, when will it be soon enough?

When we hit the 3000 mark? 4000? 5000?

When?

[Barrett808]

29. Oh, it was 'lack of guts' that enabled the rise of fascism, was it?

Wall Street's warm embrace of fascism had nothing to do with it, then.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Abizaid is sounding like German General Paulus at Stalingrad

Just before he surrendered to the Russians that surrounded him, Paulus send this message to Hitler:

'The swastika flag is still flying above Stalingrad. May our battle be an example to the present and coming generations, that they must never capitulate even in a hopeless situation, for them Germany will emerge victorious.'

http://www.stalingrad.com.ru/history/atlas/end_at_stalingrad.htm

Will Abizaid surrender like Paulus did, or will he commit suicide as Hitler wanted Paulus to do?

[Phredicles]

32. "It's too soon to say we have failed"-Weren't those Custer's last words?

...or something like that.

[G Hawes]

36. It's an ugly situation, no question

Given my admitted lack of military knowledge or competence, I cannot say with any certainty that it's a "failure" yet, but it is obvious that it is not a cut and dried success story. Of course, neither could that be said in the midst of WW1 or WW2, so who knows whether this will turn out to be a success or a failure at this point? Not me.

[patrick t. cakes]

37. it starterd as a failure.

n/t

[rhett o rick]

38. You need a goal before you can either fail or succeed. We have no goal.

If the goal was to unseat Hussein then we succeeded. If the goal was to kill every terrorist alive, we have failed. If the goal was to get the Sunni's and the Shia and the Kurdish Sunnies to live in peace, we will never succeed.

peace

[TankLV]

39. Can we say it NOW?!

[TankLV]

40. Can we say it NOW?!

[TankLV]

41. How about NOW?!

[TankLV]

42. ....you get the idea...

[sabra]

44. reminds me of the "can you hear me now?" commercial...

[0007]

45. The moment we landed in Iraq was a failure. What was there

to steal beside oil under the pretense of freedom?

[BikeWriter]

46. We caused the violence in Iraq! He didn't get the memo?

[Porcupine]

47. He needs to take a little walk outside the Green Zone

preferably without the battalion of troops that secure every position he ever sets foot in.

Another Chickenhawk general for war.