Kissinger: Military victory no longer possible in Iraq

[bigtree]

Kissinger: Military victory no longer possible in Iraq
Sunday November 19, 2006
By TARIQ PANJA
Associated Press Writer

LONDON (AP) Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday.

In a wide ranging interview on British Broadcasting Corp. television, Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's regional neighbors including Iran if any progress is to be made in the region.

``If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi Government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible,'' he said on the BBC's Sunday AM breakfast show.

But Kissinger warned against a rapid withdrawal of troops, saying it could lead to ``disastrous consequences,'' destabilizing Iraq's neighbors and causing a long-lasting conflict.

``If you withdraw all the forces without any international understanding and without any even partial solution of some of the problems, civil war in Iraq will take on even more violent forms and achieve dimensions that are probably exceeding those that brought us into Yugoslavia with military force,'' he said.

http://cbs11tv.com/worldwire/Britain-Iraq-Kissinge_a_i_-----/resources_news_html



http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[sam sarrha]

1. that is surprising from Killinger, never thought he turn down a chance to slaughter peasants

[bigtree]

5. he didn't say they should stop slaughtering

or stop training the Iraqis to kill each other.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. Well, if anyone should know, it would

be Henry the K.

But, of course, he knew this from the begining and said nothing, as war criminals do.

[SpiralHawk]

3. Yeah, like Kissinger has credibility

he's just another corrupt republicon crony hack, full of ego and non-stop bloviation.

[bigtree]

6. architect of the Vietnam aggression

earworm to Bush on Iraq

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Actually he was the architect of the Cambodian Aggression -

the expansion of the war in an effort to get a better negotiating position in the peace talks. LBJ's war criminals, notably that old fool McNamara, were the architects of the big expansion of the war in 65. But it is a minor point. So many generations of war criminals.

[pretzel4gore]

13. imagine the tax money pumped monthly into the killer's acc'ts!

the dirty punk gets how many pensions. imagine, our money feeding that monstrous hyena!

[Skittles]

4. it was NEVER possible you warmongering piece of SHIT

FUCK YOU KISSINGER

[Morgana LaFey]

37. Thank you. The correct answer at last.

I'm wondering what was Kissinger's first clue?

[krispos42]

38. It was possible, until the troops crossed the border

With that few troops, plus virtually no post-invasion planning and incompetent leadership in post-war Iraq, doomed the prospects of a reasonable result to the invasion as soon as the go order was given. Until we started to move, we had all the time in the world to boost troop levels, forge a regional alliance, and complete plans for post-invasion security and rebuilding.

Then it was all tossed in the shitter.

[Morgana LaFey]

39. Well, military historians disagree with you

UNLESS, of course, genocide is okay with you as a war plan. That's what it takes to conquer a resisting nation. (As just one example, see: American Revolution. You might also see U.S.- Vietnam War for a point of comparison.)

[krispos42]

40. Genocide?

Well, I guess that's one way to do it, but hardly the preferred method...

All nations resist invasion. Of the ones that lose, nearly all of them surrender at some point without genocide.

All sucessful invasions end in a military victory and an occupation of the conquered country. All sucessful occupations end with a peaceful withdrawal from the occupied country.

The difficulty for us is the succeessful occupation part of it. We're not winning it. And we're not winning it not because it was impossible, but because we (BushCo) let fanciful notions and rosy scenarios replace solid and competent research, analysis, and planning.

In fact, I firmly believe that we have been losing the occupation for so long that we cannot win it.
We will not have a peaceful withdrawal from Iraq ever. And therefore we cannot win it.

[Morgana LaFey]

44. A "successful occupation" was never a possibility except in

the fevered minds of the PNAC crowd and their supporters.

There was no interest in "salvation" on the part if the Iraqis -- they were always going to be hostile to us and our designs, even the ones who LIKED us, even the ones who WANTED Saddam gone. No one there invited us in (and Chalabi doesn't count, for multiple obvious reasons).

There was further no homogenous population to "accept" or receive the "salvation" we wanted to impose -- only those 3 factions that needed to be controlled by a strong-arm dictator, and even more basic than that: you don't create democracy through force. The mission was doomed from the start, and there were plenty of people who KNEW and predicted that well before the ill-advised war ever got off the ground. I'd refer you back to some of the contemporaneous anti-war articles, which would be better iterations of the reality than I can provide after the fact and with my weak memory. If you're interested I'm sure you can find some. If you're not interested, you'll whine about me not providing any links.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Kissinger must be mellowing out in his old age

Fourty years ago he would have wanted to nuke them instead in order to win.

[INdemo]

8. He was probably coaxed by pappy Bush and Baker to make this

statement..I think we will see that when their commission report is released they will say the same thing.

[Judi Lynn]

9. He didn't expect the word to leak out to us that he was advising Bush secretly,

behind our backs. We learned recently he has been encouraging the BLOB to "stay the course," and prevent what happened to VietNam. You may remember hearing _Bush has been giving off those signals in the last few days, claiming he's in for the duration.

Now that he knows we know he's been advising _Bush to hang in there, he realizes he just might get blamed, so he's trying to do a little perception molding.

You can NEVER trust a man who won't respect the people's elections in their own countries.

[truthisfreedom]

10. wow, he used the "c" word. freaky. who woulda thunk one of bush's closest advisors would say civil

war. it's positively embarrassing. i mean, it's as if they simply don't care what they look like anymore.

[calimary]

11. What I love is how he, and so many others of these warmongering miscreants

keep talking about some veiled, vaporous "disastrous consequences" if we pull our troops OUT OF THAT HELLHOLE. Um - THAT will cause "disastrous consequences"? Like we're not there already???? What do you think the situation there is presently? A day with the kiddies at the zoo? I think we arrived at the "disastrous consequences" part quite some time ago. Like immediately after the invasion began, when we let things run amok because we didn't plan properly in the first place, or look at the region's history REALISTICALLY (which would have tipped us off about what a losing proposition this war was going to be BEFORE WE GOT IN) - AND TOLD THE TRUTH FROM THE BEGINNING (which would have avoided this whole mess from the beginning, because this was a war we didn't have to get into from the beginning)!

Good Lord, I feel sometimes like I've fallen down some rabbit hole listening to these people. Same thing from listening to tony blair's latest.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2620683#2622109

This is starting to make me C.R.A.Z.Y.

[pretzel4gore]

12. the iraqi gunmen, the immans and the natural leaders

are the guys gonna sort iraq out in the end, so the bloody WSA (formerly USA) should get the hell out.....
did anyone hear that the eisenhower carrier group has been called back from the gulf?

[Demeter]

14. Where Did You Hear That?

Any link?

[pretzel4gore]

17. damn it i saw it referred to somewhere

last evening....in reference to the changing dynamics over there. the poster said there was talk around the home port that the eisenhower wouldn't be there long, had been given return orders(?) it seemed such a huge thing it would be confirmed very soon, so i never took enuff note. but i'll try find out more. after all, the carrier group's only been in the gulf for a couple weeks (but the bush criminals are truly mafia like secrecy when using forces)

[Demeter]

32. What Little I've Dug Up Suggests That Enterprise Is Relieved By

Eisenhower, and is coming home, so that there are still 3 carriers there.

[rman]

15. Trying to disassociate himself from the dogs he's been sleeping with

I think the fact that Wolfowitz was the first rat to leave the sinking ship proves that he's the more intelligent one of the neocon gang.

[SquireJons]

20. Wolfowitz smart?

Isn't saying that Wolfowitz may be the smartest neocon a bit like saying that someone is the 'most alive' corpse in a morgue?

[rman]

23. What do you mean? That the neocons are stupid?

Just look at how much riches they and their buddies got out of this war. Do you think that's coincidence?
And they're going to continue for a least another two more years.

They're stupid only if you assume that they really do intend the best for Americans and the rest of the global population. But i think it is naive to make that assumption. There certainly is no evidence that they have the best intentions for anyone but themselves.

I think Wolfy is the smarter one because he was first to leave the sinking ship. The sinking of the ship isn't really much of a problem for them. It is a setback but they'll find another ship - Wolfowitz already did.

[SquireJons]

34. Yeah, I think they're stupid

A lot of idiots get rich. (Exhibit A: George W. Bush who made hundreds of millions off of failed companies)

The thing is, that getting rich was only a side goal for the neocons. They really do believe in PNAC's bull crap. For various reasons each of them, Pearle, Fieth, Adelman, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld and so on... each of them really thought that the way to secure america's future was through a nazi style foreign policy. Fascism can be defined as a government which appeals to a strong sense of national identity and the promise of a glorious future which views itself as entitled to anything it can take from weaker nations. By that definition, the neocons are good little fascists and they really believe the crap they have been spewing for over ten years.

This is why they're turning on shrub. They still think that they were right. W just screwed it all up (as if he were in charge of Iraq policy to begin with).

So yes, I think that the neocons, and especially Wolfowitz are fools and stupid. He was and still is a true believer in military adventurism as a substitute for diplomacy. If you look at the way he has handled things at the World Bank, it's been no different. As soon as he walks into a room, there's a shit storm. He's no better than Bolton.

[Odin2005]

35. Smart people arn't exempt from being evil and arrogant bastards, you know.

[SquireJons]

36. Absolutely

I'm an evil, arrogant bastard myself, just ask my ex wife.

[rman]

41. Believing PNAC's bull crap means

to think that a wealthy and powerful few should dominate the world militarily in order to secure their interests, which is to get their hands on the last remaining sources of raw materials. So far they have managed to obtain a sizable chunk of the oil and a good strategic position to get at the rest of the oil in that region. They are not done yet.

I think that the prevalent characteristic of fascism is that it is anti-democratic (aka dictatorial, despotic) - the promises of glory are merely a symptom of one of their methods: deception of the people. Shit storm or not, as of yet the neocons have been obtaining much of their goals. They may be turning on Bush but that doesn't mean they intend to get the military out of the Middle East any time soon.

[SquireJons]

43. "The wheel is turning and it won't slow down"

Damn, I miss Jerry Garcia.

"may be turning on Bush but that doesn't mean they intend to get the military out of the Middle East any time soon."

Sadly, you are very right about that. I was alarmed to read that Cardinal Richelieu (aka dickhead cheney) said that it didn't matter that the Dems took control of Congress. The war(s) would go on no matter what. I don't think that there has ever been a stronger candidate for impeachment then cheney. He is absolutely disdainful of democracy and the American system of government.

But the wheel is turning and slowly, the neocons are getting crushed under it's weight. Hopefully, the Democratic Congress will have the courage to pursue the illegal and unconstitutional activities of the bush mis-administration. That's what the american people want. What the Dems want is another question entirely. IMO, many people voted against republicans, not because they agree with or even know of the Democrats agenda. They wanted to send a message to the republican party. That was the mandate, and the Dems ignore it at their peril.

One thing that they all need to remember:
"if the thunder don't get you than the lightning will."

[arewenotdemo]

45. Jumping ship first was the ONE AND ONLY thing that rat got right

Wolfowitz deserves to be hanged last (and highest), in honour of his singular contribution to the genocide.

[SoftUnderbelly]

16. full transciprt here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/sunday_am/6163050.stm

[buddysmellgood]

18. Hey Henry! Do you want a victory in Iraq or not?

[Gregorian]

19. Win? Win what?f

I thought it was about 9/11 WMD's Freedom®. Oh, that's right. OIL.

Too bad Henry. You're obsolete.

[Donnachaidh]

21. so he's done a contrast and compare to Vietnam?

His *other* fiasco? Of course, no one knows just what he has been telling the WH for the past months he's been secretly meeting with them.

[LynnTheDem]

22. Gee, don't tell bush, rice, pace, abizaid, and the rest of the

MFing rightwingnut idiots with their heads up each other's asses.

[madrchsod]

24. like it or not this is what is going to happen

everyone in the region has a self interest in the gradual withdraw of the us forces coupled with the progress of political solutions in iraq. is it not our responsibility to use every option that may become available when we engage all of the various countries in a constructive dialog? we are responsible for the carnage are we to just walk away? are we as a nation so devoid of leadership that we can not find those with the ability to understand the problems involved and a course to resolve them?

interesting that kissinger brought up yugoslavia. george the first was responsible for that carnage because he decided that iraq was more important at that time. his group thought that the balkans were not worth the problem...well, we all know what happened and who cleaned up after that bush failure. now we are faced with another bush failure and it will be up to the democratic party and it`s leadership to chart a course out of this mess that another bush created. do we have the leadership? i say we do.

[rustydog]

25. Vu ja dae all over again. Shit, he had to tell Nixon Vietnam was unwinnable

kissinger has advised two incompetent presidents. lucky him. I wonder why he does not travel abroad? A chance of war crimes prosecution perhaps?

[gratuitous]

26. And it happened in the last 11 days?

After all, right up until the Republicans got trounced in the mid-term election, all we heard from the administration, its generals, its pundits, and everyone else with a personal, political or financial stake in all-war-all-the-time was that Iraq was still winnable. Yeah, just like you can win an earthquake or a hurricane. But now, in the last 11 days, suddenly Iraq isn't winnable. What kind of truth serum suddenly got injected into the public discourse?

Not that we should withdraw our troops, according to Henry the War Criminal. No, they should hunker down and continue to be used for target practice. And apparently be damn thankful for the opportunity.

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Oh that has to hurt. Grandfather of war criminals to junior war criminal

'you've lost, get over it'. Ouch. Junior go pick up your testicles, Henry left them on the floor.

[otherlander]

29. Hey Henry!

[Seabiscuit]

30. "no longer"??? It never f'in was, you imbicile. Kissinger my ass! n/t

[last1standing]

31. We'll have to make sure he gets another Nobel Peace Prize for this.

There is a category for stating the bleeding obvious, isn't there?

[Nostradammit]

33. Mission Accomplished!!!

Congratulations, neocons - you've cemented your place in history as losers!

Big, stinking, greedy-ass losers.

And coming soon, big, stinking, greedy-ass convicts!

Heckuva Job!

[tabasco]

42. Don't be fooled, people !

This is part of the necon plan, in my estimation.

Their goal is to keep US forces in Iraq as long as possible so that the multinational oil comapanies control the oil, not the Iraqis.

They will try to convince us that the boys are coming home and that the war is over, all the while keeping US troops in Iraq and maintaining control of the Iraqi oil reserves.

They want to leave a large US military presence in Iraq to guard oil facilities but NOT to provide law and order in the cities.

The neocons want to:
1. Deploy US forces to secure oil facilities.
2. End counterinsurgency operations with the exception of limited operations.
3. Convince the US public that the war is over, while maintaining a large US military presence and control of the oil reserves.

What I expect the neocons to do:
1. I expect Bush to increase the level of troops in Iraq significantly as his last defiant act. Bush and the yes-men generals whom Rumsfeld installed will all cry for the need for more troops. Expect it. There will be more troops in Iraq when Bush leaves office than right now, unless the Dems stand up.
2. With some of the billions the neocons have looted so far from our Treasury, they will bribe Congressmen & women to support continued occupation.