Yellowstone would leave gates open to snowmobiles

[Judi Lynn]

Yellowstone would leave gates open to snowmobiles

The park service, passing over its own studies, seeks a daily cap of 720 on the loud machines.
By Julie Cart, Times Staff Writer
November 21, 2006

Despite the conclusions from its own scientists that snowmobiles in Yellowstone National Park continue to create unacceptable noise levels, the National Park Service released a draft plan Monday that would allow up to 720 snow machines in the park per day.

The plan would maintain the current maximum daily numbers, or about three times as many snowmobiles as entered the park each day over the last three winters. The snowmobiles must use what the Park Service calls "best available technology" to reduce noise and pollution levels.

The park service is in the middle of the fourth extensive scientific analysis of the impact of snowmobiles at Yellowstone. These followed a Bush administration reversal of a Clinton-era phaseout of snowmobiles that cited visitor and employee health and enjoyment as well as the welfare of wildlife in the park.

The previous reports, which have cost more than $8 million, have all concluded that snowmobiles result in unhealthful air and unacceptable noise. The park service is considering a range of options, from banning snowmobiles in favor of snow coaches (multi-passenger vans mounted on treads) to its preferred alternative, setting a daily limit on snowmobiles and requiring that tours be guided by someone with specialized training.
(snip/...)

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-na-snowmobile21nov21,1,1245579.story?track=rss

[NVMojo]

1. these fucking bush luvin bastards ...time for someone to put up a site

like http://www.ihumpedyourhummer.com/blog/category/video/

only call it "i humped your snowmobile"

Send their freaking kids to Iraq to earn the oil they waste!

[bluestateguy]

2. Yellowstone National Playground

For selfish people who treat the park like some kind of a frat house.

I like it that the park rangers are wearing big gas masks, which kind of also sends a not so subtle message to the snowmobiliers that they are causing problems.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Chain saws with a rubber belt. Why have a muffler at all?

The sound is orgasmic.................

Not.

[cboy4]

3. They should rename it YELLOWSNOW.

All of those asshole are probably scaring the fucking bears out of hibernation too.

This stuff makes me so mad.

[daleo]

13. Scaring the bears may be part of the point of snowmobiles/quads/etc.

I think some people like to take fast, powerful machines into the woods because they are afraid of the wildlife, and want the option of a quick exit. But if wildlife scares you that much, you probably shouldn't leave the city.

[Trillo]

4. Since the objection is "pollution and noise"

and since I know that snowmobiles are generally powered by 2-stroke motors (gasoline and oil mixed together) they pollute more as well as being quite sensitive to exhaust scavenging, reducing power when their exhaust is quieted down, I wondered if anyone had developed a hybrid snowmobile. Google provides the affirmative: hybrid snowmobile.

It would appear that much quieter snowmobiles of equal power are already engineered and on the way but there likely are existing snowmobiles that need to be phased out of use.

I find myself wondering if "noise and pollution" are simply current cause celebres that will continue to morph as time marches on and the quieter versions are purchased and used.

[SmokingJacket]

8. My mom's theory is that the noise is part of the appeal.

Quieter lawn mowers are also available, but many people just love a loud, powerful feeling engine.

[Trillo]

18. I used to have a lawnmowing biz,

and never considered electric equipment because at the time they needed an electric cord.

[liberal N proud]

5. I would love to see Yellowstone in the winter

And I would love to ride a snowmobile through the park, Yellowstone is one of my favorite destinations.

I agreed 100% with the ban on the machines and this is just one more example of the bu$h regimes disregard for our natural resources and national treasures.

They have no eye for the future, they are all get mine now the hell with the rest of you attitudes

[itsmesgd]

6. why stop with snowmobiles

why not just allow hummers to destroy the park or just pave the whole damn thing.

I have an idea....ever heard of a horse? It worked for a long time before the snowmobile came along.

Snowmobilers are the same type of people who drive jetskis through no wake zones. Can we save something for the next generation?

an old Native American quote. "we do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children."

[okoboji]

7. while their at it

they should cut all the trees down, so they don't catch on fire. That would save the park and give the snowmobiles more ground to drive.

<sarcasm off

[Ezlivin]

11. Remove the trees and pave the ground - I agree

National Parks would be much more recognizable if they were reconfigured to look like WalMart parking lots. All that black asphalt and those nice yellow lines are comforting to the average American. Trees and nature are dirty and scary.

All the animals should be in cages, too. There are too many wandering around where the tourists want to go.

[Toots]

22. I agree and there should be at least one hundred oil derricks in each park

Plus a few coal mines. I mean what the hell people need jobs don't they...:shrug:

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. I love to play with D-8 bulldozers. What about my rights?

How come I can't bring my toys in there and rip the place up?

Talk about discrimination.

[Lorien]

12. So much for escaping the noise and fumes of the city for the

peaceful serenity of the wilderness. :eyes:


WHY do the "rights" of rightwing knuckle-dragging jackasses ALWAYS supersede the rights of the rest of us?

[Locrian]

14. physics.

quote: WHY do the "rights" of rightwing knuckle-dragging jackasses ALWAYS supersede the rights of the rest of us?

Entropy. "entropy changes lead to a progressive disorganization of the physical world...while evolutionary changes progressively higher organization...".

To advance we need hihger organization. To "devolve" requires relaxation. And to destroy you only need to "win" once.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

15. The snowmobile crowd is trying to do the same to Denali N.P.

99% of Alaska is open to snowmobilers, but they just can't bear to be kept out of the pristine wilderness of Denali National Park, which is only open to dog sledding, cross country skiing, snow shoeing, etc. What's pathetic are the excuses they come up with, like "You're denying the handicapped the opportunity to enjoy the park." (This argument has been made to force states to adopt electronic voting machines). When it's pointed out that snowmobilers have a tendency to chase wildlife -- especially moose -- the argument is, "It's only a few bad apples..."

I lived in Fairbanks for a couple of winters and can tell you from first hand experience that there was not one inch of untouched snow by the middle of the winter. And the noise! There'd be snowmobilers chasing around the nature preserve behind our apartment at midnight!

Not all snowmobilers are inconsiderate oafs. Most are courteous, family-oriented people who enjoy their sport within the bounds of common sense and courtesy.

BTW, snowmobilers have a "sport" called "high-marking" where they see how high up a mountainside they can go before their machine stalls out. Odds are that's what they'd do with Denali (Mt. Mckinley). Fortunately high-marking is a self-cleaning sport, and a number of participants are "Darwined" each year by the avalanches they cause.

[Xithras]

16. WTH are snowmobiles so LOUD?!?!

Seriously. Take a V6 engine from any modern car, strip away the mufflers and headers, and you'll have a car so loud that you'll have to cover your ears when revving it. Despite that, modern cars are incredibly quiet. The exhaust and emissions systems dampen their noise so thoroughly that most cars produce little more than a deep hum.

Why can't the same be done on snowmobiles? I have no problem with the CONCEPT of snowmobiles, it's just the implementation that sucks @55.

[Trillo]

20. I believe the issue is likely related to them being 2-stroke

instead of 4-stroke engines. With 2-stroke engines, the exhaust pipe is critical to the tuning of the engine, and it relates to optimal scavenging of the exhaust from the cylinder. 2-stroke engines do not have valves that open and close as there are in a 4-stroke, though there is often a metal reed in the intake manifold which functions as a one-way valve. There are port openings or windows in the cylinder wall that when the piston reaches a certain point in its motion are either exposed or not exposed. The exhaust gas and its sound wave leaving the the cylinder after the burn or ignition is what helps draw in the fresh gas/oil mix from the chamber underneath the piston, which acts as a pump.

For those who are into the math, there was a book published in the 70s titled 2-stroke Tuners Handbook that helps one to design the shape of an exhaust system so that it works well with the sound wave frequency of the exhaust pulses and helps the scavenging effect which assists the intake of fresh, unburned mixture into the cylinder.

Why snowmobiles have remained 2-stroke when there are other alternatives is perhaps a good question.

2-stroke gas engines have fewer parts and are simpler types of motors, perhaps they're less expensive to manufacture. Because they have fewer parts, they likely weigh less as well. This probably explains their popularity for hand held gardening equipment such as blowers and weed whackers.

[Trillo]

17. I was just reading throught the responses to the thread,

My earlier question of "noise and pollution" being cause celebres was pretty much confirmed. I've never ridden on a snowmobile, and never lived in an area where it snowed with one relatively short city-type exception. I did visit Yellowstone once as a child, some 40 years ago, but it was in the summer IIRC, and I barely remember it. Anyway....

I want to thank those who were brave enough to open their hearts and state the real issues, as I was largely unaware of them.

Therefore, in the spirit of groupthink and mutual cooperation, I'd like to suggest two courses of legal action to fix all of these problems. Specifically, the problems of parkland not being left pristine and issues related to that.

1} Declare 100% of the land and water mass of the globe Parkland. 2} Make humans illegal in Parkland.

Snowmobile Problem solved. No more jet airplanes and helicopters, either, to disturb the natural wildlife or continue adding pollution to the environment. And best of all, no more environment destroying wars.

If you support 1 & 2, be sure to write to your new congresspeople to tell them.

[CabalPowered]

19. I know I'm in the minority here but I support a few sleds in the park

A cap is absolutely necessary. No doubt about it. I think the most appropriate way to handle it would be like river rafters. Cap the number at around a 50 sleds a day and have a lottery. On top of that I would like to see a very strict emission level. But why not just ban them? Because Yellowstone in the winter is an experience like no other. I've been to Yellowstone dozens of times but the few winter trips I've made were so spectacular that I would definately put in for a lottery. I'm not an avid sled rider but the geothermal features are incredible enough during the winter to dare the frigid cold.

:hide:

[pinniped]

21. These assclowns blow away $$$$ on a study and ignore the findings.

$8,000,000.00 down the drain.