Gun background check system crashes

[deadparrot]

WASHINGTON - An FBI computer system that quickly screens gun buyers' backgrounds for criminal activity crashed several times over the past two days, officials said Monday.

At times, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System was on the blink for up to a half-hour on Sunday and Monday — potentially allowing buyers to purchase firearms without being screened.

The computer crash was blamed on a technical glitch that was being worked on Monday evening, said FBI spokesman Paul Bresson. "It's a performance issue that we've never encountered before," he said

It was unclear when the glitch would be fixed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061128/ap_on_go_ot/gun_checks

[nebenaube]

1. um... does this imply that there are droves of people buying

new firearms (after deer season?)

[slackmaster]

4. I know people who have bought guns because Democrats took over Congress

Most likely the system is old and in need of maintenance.

Plus sales do tend to be brisk this time of year. People buy firearms as Christmas gifts. (And that is generally legal to do.)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. What kind of guns? n/t

[slackmaster]

10. Referring to the headline, or the part about Christmas presents?

I know there has been a run on certain high-capacity magazines and weapons that can accommodate them, for fear of a repeat of the expired "assault weapons" ban. If a bill to renew that (or worse, enact a stricter one) ever sees the light of day, sales will skyrocket. Lots more people have quick access to information and opinions now than did in 1994. The old AW ban resulted in MORE scary-looking weapons in private hands, not less.

People buy hunting rifles, nice shotguns, and various kinds of handguns as Christmas presents.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. Well,

I was referring to the sort of guns one would buy to defend oneself from a majority Democratic congress.

:evilgrin:

I live in the UK now, and I can't even own a 22 for target practice.

[benEzra]

29. LOL...

Some of this may also be due to speculation (the investment kind). Back in 1994, when the ill-advised Feinstein ban passed, prices on full-capacity replacement magazines for civilian handguns increased 500-600% (my wife paid over $100 for a less-than-$20 Glock 19 magazine around 1996 or so), and people who already owned a bunch of them were able to sell them at immense profits.

I personally am not worried that Congress will fall for another protruding-handgrip-and-magazine-ban, but there are those who are afraid that Feinstein et al will pull strings to get their pet issue on the table.

It also has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of us over here get/buy firearms for Christmas. If I had the disposable income, I would be one of them... :)

My wife got me this one for Christmas in 2000-ish, as I recall: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1128

[slackmaster]

41. I never said anything about defending one's self from Congress

I meant only that people are buying certain types of firearms and accessories as a hedge against those items being banned by a well-meaning but misguided Congress, as happened in 1994.

[krispos42]

26. Probably a lot of "first-gun" .22 rifles

If I had to guess. Those run about $150 or so. Good for a kid to start off on.

Maybe, if the kid is an teenager and hunter, a modest pump-action 20 or 12-gauge shotgun, or a starter deer rifle in .243 Winchester or 7mm-'08 or .25-'06. You can get those for less than $400.

[TheMadMonk]

12. Christmas Gifts???? Say what!!!!

How the hell does that work. The only person who should be permitted to carry the gun out of the store is the person in who's name that weapon is registered. And any transfer of ownership without appropriate paperwork should be carry a hefty penalty.

[davepc]

13. We don't have a firearms registry...so there is no person to register an individual gun too

And any attempts to implement a gun registry would lead to Republican rule in congress and the white house for the foreseeable future.

Even in states that require licensing, the licence isn't tied to any one firearm.

Giving a firearm as a gift is perfectly legal as long as the receipeient is permitted to posess the firearm under state and federal law.

As of the Gun Control Act of 1968, the federal limits on who can possess a firearm are as follows:

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html


Here's the non-legalese interpretation..via wikipeidia:

1. Anyone who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
2. Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
3. Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
4. Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
5. Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa.
6. Anyone who has been discharged from the US Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
7. Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United states, has renounced his or her citizenship.
8. Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
9. Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968

[slackmaster]

19. Newsflash: We don't have federal gun registration in the US

Other than for items regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934, i.e. machineguns, short-barrelled shotguns, etc.

Some states like mine do have registration for pedestrian firearms (just handguns here), and it is still legal to buy a gun, even a handgun, with the intent of giving it to someone as a gift.

Speaking just of California, if you transfer the gun to an immediate family member you can fill out a form at home and mail in a fee to the Department of Justice so they can (in the case of a handgun) update the registration information. For an unrelated recipient, the transfer is handled like any other private-party transfer (both individuals have to go to a licensed dealer and execute some paperwork for a fee).

Please do not confuse the act of buying a gun with the intent of giving it to someone as a gift, with making a straw purchase, in which you misrepresent yourself as the actual buyer of a gun that you are buying for someone else with that person's money, typically because that person is prohibited from buying a gun. The former is perfectly legal, the latter is a serious crime.

[-..__...]

22. Sorry to burst your bubble...

but it is allowed (as a gift), and there's even a check box on the form 4473 that address' this.

And any transfer of ownership without appropriate paperwork should be carry a hefty penalty.

Maybe in Russia, England, Canada, Australia, etc.

[NOLADEM]

27. I take it you don't live in the South

Most people I know have recieved a few guns through their childhood and life. I recieved both a rifle and a pair of shotguns for Christmas as a child.

I also won a shotgun at a Sel-Mart (precursor to Walmart) as an eight year old.

You can easily purchase a gun as a gift. You buy it, have a background check run on you, and then go home, wrap it and put it under the tree. You don't have to perform a background check on a private party sale or gift.

[AnneD]

33. Peace on Earth,

good will to men. I grew up in gun lovin Texas and guns were a fav Christmas gift. Even as a young one I thought that was an odd gift for that time of year. You start the kids off with BB guns and work your way up. We were taught gun safety early. And god forbid you kill a songbird or live stock. I guess that is why the movie 'A Christmas Story' is a fav in our household. I use to laugh about it, but after Katrina, I'm glad for my skills and knowledge.

I trust this government as far as I can throw them. I'll keep my gun, thank you very much.

[benEzra]

30. As long as both the buyer AND the receipient can lawfully own the firearm...

it's legal in most states. If either can't, it's a Federal felony.

My wife got me this one (collectible) for Christmas in 2000-ish: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1128

[krispos42]

42. Might be worried about another AWB

Assault Weapons Ban, for the uninitiated.

The usual players are making noises again now that Democrats are in control of the Hill. Feinstein, Schumer, Hillary, Brady Campaign.

General opinion seems to be that touching this issue again is like pissing on an electric fence.

I read at least one opinion in the Gungeon that if the AWB started moving through Congress, that poster would get himself an pre-ban AR-15 if he had to take out a loan against his house.

Of course, it could just be that, because the economy is just so booming and the middle and lower income classes are just so flush with money that they have extra cash to spend on non-critical things like guns. :sarcasm:

I find is more likely, though, that the system simply needs expansion and upgrade. The FBI has spend a half-billion dollars on a case-management system that doesn't work, so I guess they're just to busy and broke fighting with that to perform needed maintinence.

Part of the 'starve the beast' approach to reducing government. Things just keep on fraying until finally, **RIIIIIIPPPPPP**! Our bridges, tunnels, jails, electrical grids, telecommunications networks, water systems, sewage systems, etc., are all decaying. I'm not surprised this is one of them.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Someone's packing.

I'm betting that Cheney is stocking the ranch.

[slackmaster]

3. "potentially allowing buyers to purchase firearms without being screened" = BS

Federal law (a part known as "the permanent provisions of the Brady Act") specifies that the government has up to three business days to complete a background check.

Having the system down for 30 minutes or even a couple of days will NOT enable prohibited people to walk out of Big 5 Sporting Goods with firearms. Furthermore, if the system was down for three full dayw it would still be possible for law enforcement to identify and apprehend anyone who slipped through the cracks. By the time the NICS check is initiated, the buyer has already signed a sworn statement that, under penalty of perjury, he or she is not a prohibited person.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

[w4rma]

6. Thank you for clairifying that. (nt)

[williesgirl]

14. You're absolutely right. It was down when I bought mine. I had to come back once it was approved.

[sendero]

17. Um...

... it depends. If you are buying a gun that has a waiting period, i.e. a handgun, yes you are correct. If you are buying a long gun (rifle, shotgun) then the purchase is instant, you fill out the form, they call it in, the FBI gives an instant response and you walk out with the firearm.

I've done this several times, we're not talking about theories here.

[slackmaster]

18. There is no federal waiting period for non-NFA firearms

If you have had to wait a set period of time, that is because of a state law, and I don't believe Texas (if that actually is your state) has a waiting period for handguns.

Here in California the wait is 10 days for any pistol, rifle, or shotgun, new or used. We also have a "one handgun per month" law.

If you are buying a long gun (rifle, shotgun) then the purchase is instant, you fill out the form, they call it in, the FBI gives an instant response and you walk out with the firearm.

If NICS happens to be down it won't be an instant response. Maybe your state has a provision to let you walk if NICS is down, but I doubt it.

I've done this several times, we're not talking about theories here.

Since NICS has been down only very rarely, that does not surprise me.

[NickB79]

44. You have been lucky

Many, many people with perfectly clean records have to wait up to 3 days to purchase a long gun if they are unlucky enough to have a name that even remotely resembles someone who is not allowed to purchase a gun. I have personally had to make people wait to purchase rifles and shotguns for days before the OK came through from NICS.

Also, handgun purchases do not always require waiting periods; that is a state issue. Here in Minnesota, you need a permit to purchase a pistol. You go to the police station, fill out the paperwork, and they run a background check on you. After 2 weeks, you have your permit mailed to you (note: this is NOT the same as a concealed-carry permit, that is additional work to get).

Now, with this permit, I could walk into a gun store and proceed to buy a handgun without a waiting period. They simply make a photocopy of my permit, I pay for the handgun, and out the door I go.

[NickB79]

43. I used to work for a sporting-goods store behind the gun counter

There were many times when the system told me the check was pending, and we had to take down the buyer's phone number to call them back when the check came in the next day. Until that check was in, no gun sale.

By law, if the check doesn't clear after 3 days, the store can legally sell the gun anyways, but most stores have in their policy (including the one I worked for) that they will not sell a gun without a background check, period.

[eleny]

5. Overload from "War On Christmas" buyers?

:evilgrin:

[truthisfreedom]

7. If there is an increase in gun sales, it's easy to see why...

Crime is way, way, way up in Minneapolis. People are being mugged regularly in Uptown and Downtown, and it's getting worse all the time.

[PSPS]

9. As Homer Simpson said, "Waiting period? But I'm mad now!"

[brentspeak]

32. LOL

:spray:

[Judi Lynn]

15. Buy a gun to celebrate the coming of the Prince of Peace. Sounds good. n/t

[slackmaster]

21. You should see what they do in South Carolina on Christmas Eve

People set off more fireworks than they do on the 4th of July.

[-..__...]

24. Even the "Prince of Peace" knows there's no reasoning with some people.

[AnneD]

34. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

love it. My other gun toting liberal DEM's will get a kick out of it. Difference is most of the gun toting liberal actually eat the game they hunt and they really hunt their game. My brother has not bought beef to eat in years. He bagged 2 elk and 3 deer this year. His freezer is full and I can't wait to have some chili, sausage, or stew over at his house.

[sendero]

16. Probably a Microsoft box..

.... every day it doesn't crash is a gift from heaven.

[-..__...]

20. The system receives between 30,000 and 50,000 requests for background checks on a daily basis

"The system, located in Clarksburg, W.Va., generally receives between 30,000 and 50,000 requests for background checks on a daily basis, peaking on the weekends, Bresson said."

That figure seems unusually high, but :thumbsup: :applause: nonetheless. :smoke:

[ret5hd]

23. Lets say it's 50,000...and lets assume a 12 hr day...

(time zones, etc)...

That's less than 4,200 per hour.

That's 70 a minute.

That's a little over 1 a second.

What the hell kind of server crashes because of 2 requests per second?

Must be Microsoft.

[Thor_MN]

28. Must be a common sense deprived Mac fan that thinks requests are evenly distributed

How many requests do you think occur at 2AM? The article even tells you that the traffic is heavily skewed towards the weekends. Servers don't crash due to average traffic, they crash due to peak traffic.

Pseudo math skills used to promote your agenda - have you been going to the Rove Univeristy of Spin Hypocrisy?

[ret5hd]

45. What part of "12 hour day" did you not understand???

The only pseudo-skills here are yours:
reading comprehension AND math comprehension!!! Hell, I even did the math for ya!!!
skills...pfft!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Thor_MN]

47. Try some of your vaunted comprehension skills

On AVERAGE requests per time period meaning NOTHING??? Your entire premise is flawed from its base, it's meaningless babble.

Try talking your way out of a speeding ticket by telling the officer that including the time that you've been pulled over, your average speed has dropped below the speed limit.

[slackmaster]

35. Professional Systems Administer checking in here

What the hell kind of server crashes because of 2 requests per second?

Maybe you have access to some information that hasn't been posted here, but as far as I know we the FBI has not disclosed what caused the system to crash, only that it has done so a few times recently.

Must be Microsoft.

I run Windows servers that handle dozens of times that volume of vastly more complex requests. Load usually becomes an issue only when the application code is buggy. All NICS does is look in a read-only database for matches by taxpayer identification number and name. It's been working fine for many years. Most likely they are having hardware issues.

BTW - I don't have any source to back this up, but another administrator told me that like many federal government applicationss, NICS runs on an IBM AS/400 type system. The operating system is most likely a flavor of AIX, IMB's version of Unix. There may be no Microsoft code involved at all.

In any case, your broad-brush indictment of Microsoft seems just as baseless as your statement that the system went down because of transaction load. Unless you have some other information you'd like to share with us.

[ret5hd]

46. No, I have no other information...

just a full truck of sarcasm and the inate ability to irritate all microsoft lovers.

[sakabatou]

25. Imagine if some the funds for the war

Went to help the infrastructure of the Agencies. This would probably not happen... or not as often and quickly fixed.

[Javaman]

31. glitch, right. let me write that done...

so does this suspend gun sales in the U.S. until it's fixed??????

(dramatic pause)

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

(wipes tear from eye)

Oh I crack myself up!

[slackmaster]

36. The answer to your question is actually a qualified "Yes"

so does this suspend gun sales in the U.S. until it's fixed??????

Yes.

When the system is unable to process requests, all sales of firearms by licensed gun dealers are put on hold for up to 72 hours - See the link I posted in reply #3. That's federal law. Sales that are not required to go through the background check system are of course unaffected.

Oh I crack myself up!

I find your ignorance more pathetic than funny, but suit yourself.

[Javaman]

37. Thank you for enlightening me, that's actually good news!

cheers! and peace always!

[benEzra]

38. Why is that good news?

I can see how the fact that people still get background checks is good news (that what you meant?), but it's not good news if YOU'RE the one who took leave from work to go buy your Christmas present, and find out that you've got to take the same amount of leave again tomorrow...or the next day. Since I don't get unlimited leave, I'd be a bit peeved if that happened to me.

[Javaman]

39. Then that's your issue not mine. nt

[MGKrebs]

40. Just in time for Cheney's hunting trip this week.

I mean, if having shot someone in the face were to show up on MY background check, I would hope I would be flagged.

[Anakin Skywalker]

48. His @$$hole Friend Didn't Even Press Charges!