Powell: Iraq Is In A Civil War And Bush Should Stop Denying It

[sabra]

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/29/powell-civil-war/

Powell: Iraq Is In A Civil War And Bush Should Stop Denying It

Speaking with CNN reporter Hala Gorani in Dubai today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq’s violence meets the standard of a civil war and thinks President Bush needs to acknowledge that. According to Gorani’s report, Powell said if he were heading the State Department right now, he would recommend that the Bush administration adopt that language “in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.”

<snip>

Full transcript:

GORANI: Well, within the context of the leaders conference in Dubai and also within the context of this debate, this semantics debate, over whether to call what is going on on in Iraq a civil war, the former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he thinks we can call it a civil war and added if he were still heading the State Department, he probably would recommend to the Bush administration that those terms should be used in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.

I’m paraphrasing what he told me. This was closed to cameras and this was something he said within the context of this academic debate with 2 or 3,000 people watching on in the region.

[xultar]

1. Buhwawawa! Classic!

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Sorry, Powell, but when you backed up * with your lies to the UN

you fucked up.

Admit THAT.

It's very possible none of this would be happening if you hadn't done that.

[marmar]

4. Powell is definitely culpable...

but I have a feeling this was going to happen with or without him.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. If he'd said at the outset that the intel was phonied up and that

we needed to concentrate on Afghanistan and Bin Laden, they might have fired him and gone ahead, but the anti-war protests would have doubled in size and * would not have gotten a second term.

And he would be a contender for the presidency today.

Not very good strategic thinking on his part.

[barb162]

38. Why he ever joined the Bush cabinet and then stayed as long

as he did is beyond me. He added credibility to that dirty administration.

[calimary]

51. And he sold his soul to the devil in the process. Too bad, because

he woulda been a condendah!

Because he staked his own reputation and his own credibility on the war justification - in front of the entire world - he's screwed now. He's finished. He's poison. Just like everybody else touched by this snake pit. I almost feel bad for him, but from what I've read, seems like he knew it was iffy before he suited up to go to the UN and make his presentation, and just kept his fingers crossed and hoped for the best. I'm sure he thought he could work from the inside to make changes and do some good. But not when this engine of madness was firing on all cylinders, waiting to get off the starting block.

And let's remember, too, that contradicta was one of those who nagged - "we've GOT to have a war!" So she's damaged goods, too. Amazing how highly she rates in that poll this week. I hope it comes around to get her, too, and EVERYBODY involved who had their fingerprints on this debacle. Colin really didn't want to. His fingerprints are on there reluctantly, I think. But as for everybody else, theirs are all over it - quite deliberately.

[SemperEadem]

62. You should read Karen DeYoung's book on him

perhaps you will gain a clearer understanding of what went on. No sense in spending your time wondering when you can educate yourself.

The author is going to be on C-Span's book tv this weekend discussing the book.

[NewJeffCT]

50. You're probably correct

I don't think Bush even gets his UN resolution without Powell's speech at the UN.

[MaineDem]

5. I think he has admitted it

But way too late.

This administration should NOT be in power and Powell is partially responsible for it. I will never respect him or forgive him for that.

[saigon68]

21. He is a LIAR and an ENABLER

[barb162]

40. Certainly an enabler but what do you mean about the liar part

[NeoConsSuck]

55. You're joking, right?

or didn't you hear his lies at the UN?

[saigon68]

64. Lies to the UN

[Barrett808]

7. Yes, and we may hope the rats will attack each other with ever greater ferocity

:popcorn:

[wake.up.america]

34. Powell will make a ton of money on a book deal. He should give the...

proceeds to a fund to support families whose loved ones have been killed in this stupid a** war

[barb162]

39. If he would have quit then, I wonder if any of this would be

happening

[Oreo]

3. Spill the beans then Powell

You know he has info that could sink the Bush presidency and get this mess over and done with for good.

[Dhalgren]

11. Powell needs to be subpoenaed by a Senate committee early

next year, put under oath, and asked the hard questions. I don't think, under those circumstances, that he would lie. I think that he would "spill the beans" - in fact, he may be itching to...

[blondeatlast]

20. I'm surprised he hasn't managed a book deal yet.

I'm in the biz and there's millions in it for him if he tells all. The publishers ought to be beating a path ot his door.

An announcement like this even makes me wonder if something is in the offing...

[civildisoBDence]

37. Powell can choose his publisher and his advance

The fact that no book deal has been announced is likely because he is choosing to remain out of the spotlight.

I'd be willing to bet that as soon as the Bush misadministration is over, Powell's book deal will be announced, and his insider knowledge will be worth a mint.

Newsprism

[MasonJar]

6. When did Bush ever heed a rec from Powell anyway?

[Rambis]

9. He admitted it in GQ

then retracted everything and the next day (Sunday morning) Condi and the crew (everyone) were on the talk shows doing damage control. I feel he was threatened in some way. His wife has some mental health issues and they would have exploited that in some way.

[Rottenmac]

10. Bush should remember...

"the first step is ackowledging you have a problem." from his recovery as an alcoholic. thr first step to solving the Iraq problem, is to admit it has devolved into a civil war.

[SusanaMontana41]

12. YES!

Nice post. :thumbsup:

[beltanefauve]

17. This assumes

that * is really "in recovery". I don't think he ever stopped drinking, or, if he did, he doesn't seem to have any sort of program (too macho for that stuff, I guess) as he exhibits extreme dry drunk behavior.

Come to think of it, I'm starting to see parallels between * not coming clean on admitting to himself and others the reality of the problem in Iraq with Pete Rose not admitting to a gambling problem and denying he bet on baseball.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. re Pete Rose, I've always wondered why it made any difference

as long as he was not betting on his own games.

bad form, maybe, the the black-sox he was not.

[old blue]

47. off topic, but re: pete rose

A manager's game decisions can have a ripple effect across the league. Imagine the Reds are playing the last of a 4-game series against the Pirates, and the Pirates will begin a series with the Dodgers the next day. If Rose has or wants to put money on the Dodgers for the next day, maybe he makes otherwise unneccessary late-game moves to wear out the Pirate bullpen. Or say he's got money on a particular team to win one of the other divisions. Without specifically betting on his own team's games, he could manage differently in games against that particular opponent or their rivals.

Not to mention the ethical considerations (if they exist) in the gambling world. Rose, as a manager, no doubt has access to inside information regarding injuries and trade rumors around the league.

Oh, and Powell should nail the admin to the wall.

[Tight_rope]

26. The "FIRST" problem is that Bush never recovered as an alcoholic!

He's still an alcoholic. So we can just scratch that 10 or 12 step program.

[Black Adder]

44. The alcoholic personality doesn't change just because he

no longer drinks.
In a recent study of alcoholic personalities:
Two hundred fifty male, alcoholic VA inpatients were administered the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory (MCMI) and the Alcohol Use Inventory (AUI).
A cluster analysis, based on the scales of the MCMI, yielded three clusters:
Cluster 1 was the smallest and was described by the least overall psychopathology.
Cluster 2 had significant elevations on Antisocial, Narcissistic, Paranoid, Drug and Alcohol Abuse scales.
Cluster 3 was the largest and had significant elevations on Avoidant, Schizoid, Dependent, Passive-Aggressive, Anxiety, Dysthymia, and Alcohol Abuse scales.

The question is - which cluster does GWB belong to?

[mr_hat]

13. This from the guy who refused to say "genocide"

in reference to Darfur until after countless thousands had been slaughtered.

[underpants]

14. From Mai Lai to Iran-Contra to the war Colin is spent with me

Sorry buddy "good soldier" doesn't cover for you any more.

Oh and Colin this is directly your fault.

[Canuckistanian]

57. It's "My Lai", pronounced, "Me Lie"

Appropriate in Colin's case.

[Cass]

15. This brings up an interesting point. What IS Rice doing about this?

Aside from the occasional speech, what exactly does she do diplomatically as SOS? I mean look how long it took her to do something with the Israeli-Lebanon thing a few months back. What about N. Korea? Iran? These problems just seem to spiral out of control with no oversight or management until they hit critical mass.

It kind of feels like the Administration is AWOL on Iraq and they seem clueless as to what to do with foreign policy in general. They won't admit its chaos over in Iraq and, after all this time, they haven't come up with a plan to manage that nightmare. This really is a clusterf* of the highest order.

[lebkuchen]

19. She probably gets good deals on leather accessories overseas

My question is, why would Al Gore want to sweep up after her?

[blondeatlast]

27. I've often wondered the same. We've gotten used to proactive SoS's

and Condi is anything but proactive.

She doesn't, maybe won't negotiate--WTF isn't she in brokered talks with Iran/N. Korea--hell, Iraq and Afghanistan?

We, the people, who pay her salary, ought to demand a performance review. She needs to go, but that's not gonna happen.

[Cass]

31. Yep, she seems to be an executive assistant to Bush. We are in dire need of an experienced

diplomat in the SOS position.

[dicknbush]

16. Fuck you Powell......All you had to do was stand up and say "THIS IS BS......

And I will no longer support this! I am convinced that Iraq is no threat to the United States Europe or even it's neighbors at this time. Therefore I resign my post as Secretary of State immediatelly and will align myself with any group or state that is motivated for an honest solution to the isue of IRaq!"

This would have stopped the war and Bush would have been hog tied. Oh well any way as far as I am concerned Powell can take his opinions and shove them up his ass for all the good they do now!

[lebkuchen]

18. Does this mean there will be no flowers, like, at ALL?

[ckramer]

22. CNN: Colin Powell says Iraq is in 'civil war'

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said today that Iraq's violence meets the standard of a "civil war," CNN is reporting.

Powell also told CNN's Hala Gorani that the Bush administration should acknowledge that, the news network says.


http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/11/cnn_colin_powel.html

[Avalux]

23. Ruh roh! The Decider isn't going to like that one bit.

How dare Colin Powell speak out - especially since Bush is out and about playing at diplomacy. :D

[bluestateguy]

24. That may convince many media organizations to call it that

The media has always had a thing for Powell, and that may convince them.

[wilt the stilt]

25. Heckuva job, George

you done good. You destroyed a region in 3 years.

[Zambero]

28. Bush is reduced to a pathetic babbler of his own disproven talking points

We will not leave until the "mission" is completed, blah blah. Powell had plenty of misgivings about invading Iraq, but he was ultimately swept along by the concocted intelligence he'd fed to the U.N. I recall his pre-war warning to Bush: "If you break it (Iraq) you own it", uttered to no avail. It's now very badly broken, thanks to Bush's destabilization policy. It's true to character that he won't own up to it, even when it's painfully obvious.

[Zodiak]

29. Waaay too little, too late

but we appreciate Powell adding his voice to the chorus.

That might get a year or two off of his sentence for war crimes, provided it actually helps.

[oc2002]

30. Poor Poor Powel. He must be realy bitter, but mostly he is irrelevant.

Too bad, if he had done the right thing, and stood tall when it counted, maybe we would not be where we are today.

On the other hand, Condi took his old job, but nobody believes a word she says...lol.

so, it all worked out.

[chelsea0011]

32. "mobile chemical weapons vehicles" FU Powell.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[NOLADEM]

33. Colin's foot.....meet Bush's balls. HA HA.

Colin, don't think I like you now though. You are still a slave in the master's house, who did the Cabal's bidding even though you knew better. You have done the master's bidding. You deserve to stand trial along side the rest.

[veracity]

36. This could have been Powell's salvation, but he chose to lie

The lies were exposed and Powell had a chance to resign and discredit them totally, He did not.

The lies: http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/powell_lies_to_un.html

The missed opportunity:http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/please_mr__powell.html

Now, he can roast in hell with the rest of them. The blood is as much on Powell's hands as anyone else in this administration.

[oc2002]

42. Condi has his job..... what worse hell can that be.

than to see a complete idiot take over your job. lol.

[Kolesar]

41. Run for president then, asshole, and go fix the problem you made

You must be the world's worst judge of character if you let that dumbass and his cadre of neocons sell you on selling the war.

[PurityOfEssence]

43. What a pathetic stooge

Unsure of himself, he threw his weight behind these thugs, and they used him for every drop of credibility he could offer. Once done with him, he was jettisoned.

He's a bad guy. Somehow, for all his rectitude and posturing, it must be made clear that he was a willing tool of virulent lying and greedy world-conquest. What few protests or stallings he made along the way can't expunge these crimes. What a shameful individual.

His attempts at atonement, although perhaps sincere, will fall on deaf ears. They should.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. " in order to come to terms with reality"

if only that were possible.

[tanyev]

46. I guess it just depends on what the definition of "civil war" is.

[TheCowsCameHome]

48. Too bad you didn't grow yourself a pair back in Feb. 2003

when it all could have been avoided.

[goforit]

49. Tah Dah!!!...Take that you "yes-man" General Pace!!

[BootinUp]

52. Powell forgets

that the Bush admin creates reality and doesn't need everyone else's.

[curiousdemo]

53. The only people that left...

on the Bush Titanic is Laura and Barney...Last i heard they was getting ready to throw the lifeboat in the water. Check out Bush boat.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/8912/sink.html


:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

[IndianaGreen]

54. Powell should have said that Bush is delusional

but this is the last thing the White House needed to hear.

[Canuckistanian]

56. Too bad Colin never "came to terms with reality" when it counted

What if Powell had resigned rather than give that disastrous speech to the UN. Would it have jolted enough people to stop the war?

[racaulk]

59. My thoughts exactly.

Too little too late, if you ask me. All of this blood, death, and destruction (including that which is to come) is on his hands, because he helped to enable it.

[Dinger]

58. When And Where Was It That He Made The "Bullshit" Comment?

Was that just before he made his BS speech to the U.N.?
Anybody have a link? I can't find it.

[VenusRising]

60. If Colin Powell said it MUST be true!!

:sarcasm:

[SemperEadem]

61. Semantics debate...

like calling hunger "food insecurity".

It is what it is and that's all it is---a civil war.

[L0oniX]

63. December10 ...Impeachment Day

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/december10
Stop the madness ...join others on Impeachment Day.
:thumbsup:

[BenDavid]

65. Here again is another person

the media failed to investigate and Powell has gotten away just like condi Rice without having to account for their lies. Excuse me but Powell has always been over-rated and point to one damn thing he has accomplished?