Doubt dooms paperless voting, election chiefs say

[DoYouEverWonder]

November 30, 2006

ORLANDO — When hanging chads and Palm Beach County's "butterfly ballot" put the kibosh on punch-card voting six years ago, Florida's elections chiefs ventured boldly into the new frontier of paperless electronic voting.

Now they are preparing - reluctantly - for a possible return to the paper era.

Amid the uproar over blank electronic votes in a tight congressional race in Sarasota County and the prospect of "paper-trail" legislation from Washington and Tallahassee, elections supervisors meeting here this week say paperless voting appears to be on its way out.

There aren't many skeptics of paperless systems among Florida elections officials. But they acknowledge skepticism among voters.

"I still contend we don't need a paper backup," says Pasco County Elections Supervisor Kurt Browning, one of the state's most forceful defenders of electronic voting. "But you get to a point where public opinion has now taken a driver seat on this engine going down the track, and now it has picked up some passengers."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/content/state/epaper/2006/11/30/m1a_ELECTION_1130.html


For the money they waste on these machines that can't even count, you could hire a lot of people to hand count paper ballots.

[lostnotforgotten]

1. Hire The Homeless Every Two Years

Win - Win For Every One

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. You know

that's not a bad idea.

[JawJaw]

7. Phew

In fact, that's a SUPERB idea.

The local homeless get some money & warmth & a valuable national PURPOSE for a few days.

[librechik]

20. in Canada the highschool kids come out to count the votes

I love that idea too

[calimary]

21. No shit. That's a FABULOUS idea.

Next time I call my congressman, I'm gonna mention it.

[Orsino]

40. Imagine the legislation that could be passed...

...if Congress knew that the homeless would be counting the ballots every two years.

Fabulous, indeed!

[mopinko]

11. um, don't know about where you live, but here in the big city

we do that. especially for republican judges. lot's of them are fine. lot's of them are not in a state that i really want to rest my democracy on.

[dysfunctional press]

38. speaking as an election judge- that's a HORRIBLE idea...

i don't know where you live, but here in the BIG CITY- a large portion of the homeless population are NOT capable of handling the task. there are usually PLENTY of regular citizens to fill the bill.

[truthisfreedom]

3. bushco is wincing.

and crying, and screaming, and scrambling.

[Dr.Phool]

4. Kurt "Trust Me" Browning is an asshole.

With all the evidence in Sarasota staring him in the face, he's still denying there's a problem.

He's been described as a lobbyist-salesman for ES&S, in addition to his job as Supervisor of Elections in Pasco County.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. The Voting Machine Companies

made sure they put in place all over FL, Supervisors of Elections that would put their interests ahead of the interests of the voters.

Plus, every Secretary of State since Sandra Mortheim has been very well connected to these companies.

The conflicts of interests are astounding among this group.

[mhatrw]

28. He's either brick dumb or evil or both.

Those are the only choices.

[texpatriot2004]

6. Hand counted paper ballots now! nm

[sean]

32. State of Oregon

The State of Oregon has the only viable way to vote, by mail in ballot.

[Orsino]

39. I don't think that injecting the Postal Service into the process is helpful.

Go to a polling place, fill out a ballot, and have it counted by hand by committed volunteers. It's worked for centuries.

[msongs]

8. e-voting is fraud, pure and plain nt

[bagrman]

9. VOTE BY MAIL-VOTE BY MAIL- VOTE BY MAIL - Change now before next election.

Only the cheats want to keep the machines. Democratic and Republican. VOTE BY MAIL


Latr

[w4rma]

13. With all due respect, that doesn't do a darn thing but make you *feel* like you did something. (nt)

[bagrman]

15. Nothing ever is going to be perfect. So you can take your pick.............

people counting ballots or a computer flipping 1000s of votes at a time, in the booth. Everyone that is registered to vote getting their ballots in the mail 3 weeks before the election or getting turned away at the polling place when you go to vote. Then there's that nasty paper trail thingy to deal with.
Unless your suggesting that voting itself is useless, then your probably right. For now though I 'm going to go through the motions of a democracy.

Latr

[w4rma]

16. Perfect? I'm not even close to lookng for perfection. But mailing a few ballots does *nothing*. (nt)

[bagrman]

23. A few, I want them all mailed in.

[OregonBlue]

18. In Oregon I at least *feel* like my vote was counted! In addition I get

my ballot and my voters pamphlet and have time to sit down and actually read each ballot measure and who is supporting or opposing it and why. Included is the "effect of the initiative" that is very useful since they are often worded in a very deceptive way.

Vote by mail is wonderful. Ballots arrive early so if you don't get one you have a chance to visit your registrar and find out why not.

Maybe you don't get the patriotic *rush* that you get with standing in line for 10 hours but you do know that the election was FAIR.

[truedelphi]

22. I think what is happening in Ore is wonderful. Who pulled it off??

Whose idea was it?

I'd love the background info.

Carol

[OregonBlue]

26. You know, I'm not sure. It was years ago and the details escape me.

I'll find out and let you know.

[OregonBlue]

31. Good American Prospect article on Oregon Vote by Mail

GOING POSTAL
With vote by mail, Oregon has higher voter turnout and spends less money running elections.

By Robert Kuttner
Issue Date: 05.03.06

Print Friendly | Email Article

The first time you hear about Oregon’s approach to voting, the idea sounds almost un-American. In 1998, the state that gave us assisted suicide decided to run all of its elections by mail: no voting booths, no frantic Election Day get-out-the-vote efforts, no dueling poll-watchers -- and no trooping off to the local firehouse to mingle with neighbors, take one last look at leaflets, and cast your ballot.

Why would anyone want to move to such a system? Doesn’t it kill one of the few remaining civic rituals that bind us together as a people? Doesn’t it spoil the idea of a defined campaign period that ends with everyone casting a ballot on a single day? The full story is told in this special report.

But the more deeply you explore the Oregon system, the better it looks. It costs less than half the traditional polling-place system, and has turnout 10.5 percentage points above the U.S. average. At least two weeks before Election Day, every registered Oregon voter gets a ballot courtesy of the U.S. Postal Service. The voter can take the full period, or less, to come to a decision. Then the voter places the ballot into a special envelope and mails it off to one of 36 county tabulation centers. The ballots must be signed and the signature must match the one on the registration card, so that theft and fraud are essentially nonexistent.

LATER IN THE ARTICLE IT SAYS

- vote by mail has slightly helped Democrats. Lower-income people often have lower motivation and face higher barriers to get to the polling place; vote by mail eliminates the barriers. Most close students have concluded that the system is basically a wash in partisan terms. But it is extremely popular with voters generally. No current statewide Oregon politician dares oppose it.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=11416

[truedelphi]

36. Excellent Article _ I do hope it does catch on in CA

And I will forward the links of article to activists I know in Marin County CA

Thanks

Carol

[OregonBlue]

37. Lots of good information at that site. And yes, this is good for Dems.

Especially in California where some might not speak English as their first language. This allows them to sit at their table with their voters pamphlet and actually study the issues. It allows them time to figure out what they are voting for. It allows people that otherwise would have a hard time getting to the polls on buses or waiting for a ride, etc., to vote easily. Personally, I feel just as good when I drop off my ballot at the Post Office as I do when I go vote. I prefer not having to stand in the line. I still get the feeling that I did my civic duty!!

[Heywood J]

24. Except when

the post office loses your ballot, some Republican judge round-files it, or your registration is challenged upon receipt - all without you ever seeing it to report. It takes the voter out of the loop and leaves them blind as to what happens beyond the mailbox.


ETA: Actually, I forgot about the possibility of enabling vote-selling by being able to now prove to a third party that you voted for their candidate.

[OregonBlue]

25. Have heard very little of the above happening. Since most registration

is done motor voter, and you need the same i.d. for a driver's license as for voting, it hasn't been much of a problem.

It does solve the problem of long lines and you have a physical piece of paper that gets counted and can be recounted.

[bagrman]

29. First you fill out the ballot , it goes in an envelope, then it goes in another envelope

Then you sign that envelope . It's sent out, the signature is okay'd the security envelope is pulled,and someone else opens it, the ballot is tossed in with the rest and counted. Some where along the line it could be tossed, just as if the ballot box was stuffed at a precient, but nothing like a computer program giving the predetermined canidate the election by the perfect margin to keep a recount from happening. If you think that something might happen at the ballot counting office, get off your dead ass and go volunteer to work and keep an eye on them.

Latr

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Voting IN PERSON is best

In FL we now have Early Voting and they send you a sample ballot in the mail so you can get ready ahead of time.


Voting by mail or absentee has it's own set of problems. Here's a recent example.


Ex-mayor pleads guilty to 243 felonies
Dec. 1, 2006

<snip>

During the trial of one of 13 people accused of conspiring with Cooper, prosecutors portrayed the ex-mayor as being the key figure in a plot to rig a 2004 election in Appalachia, 91 miles northeast of Knoxville, Tenn. They said the accused conspirators intercepted absentee ballots from the mail, filled them out and forged the signatures of the intended voters.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4371499.html

[bagrman]

34. No Problem, Voting day you go down to the polling place and drop off your ballot. Don't have to mail

[OregonBlue]

35. Exactly. You don't have to mail them. I think the instances of a mayor

intercepting ballots is not likely. Seems that procedures could be put in place that would take care of that.

[OregonBlue]

30. If your registration is challenged, you are contacted by mail. You

don't receive a ballot. If you don't receive a ballot at least 5 days prior to the election you can call the registrar and find out why. If your registration is not valid, you can go to the office and show i.d. and receive a ballot. You can also call the registrar to make sure your ballot was received. If not, you can get a replacement ballot.

[mom cat]

10. Congrats to all the election security diehards who have turned this

around! We still have a lot of work to do, but there is surely movement in the right direction. :toast:

[BeFree]

14. The next battle

It was federal law that allowed the paperless vote counting machines to capture our votes. There is now an amendment to that law...HAVA... that would further allow secret vote counting machines to be allowed.

We must fight this new law... HR 550..., and get rid of the old one.

We allowed them to steal several elections, we have to put an end to the theft ASAP. Time for everyone to get off their asses, eh?

[mopinko]

12. we win.

first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
not the last battle in the war, but we hold the high ground now.

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[lovuian]

17. Alleluia

Bush stole it for 8 years he's happy

[librechik]

19. Hooray for Public Opinion!!!

is that hope I feel stirring in my shrivelled up old ticker???

[Vidar]

27. Glad to see the tide is changing. Recommended.