London Times: Giants India, China and Russia meet to counter US power

[DeepModem Mom]

February 15, 2007
Giants meet to counter US power
Jeremy Page in Delhi

India, China and Russia account for 40 per cent of the world’s population, a fifth of its economy and more than half of its nuclear warheads. Now they appear to be forming a partnership to challenge the US-dominated world order that has prevailed since the end of the Cold War.

Foreign ministers from the three emerging giants met in Delhi yesterday to discuss ways to build a more democratic “multipolar world”.

It was the second such meeting in the past two years and came after an unprecedented meeting between their respective leaders, Manmohan Singh, Hu Jintao and Vladimir Putin, during the G8 summit in St Petersburg in July.

It also came only four days after Mr Putin stunned Western officials by railing against American foreign policy at a security conference in Munich....

Their formal agenda covered issues ranging from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Middle East and North Korea to energy security, nuclear non-proliferation and trade. The subtext, however, was clear: how to use their growing economic and political muscle to prevent Washington from tackling such issues alone.

“In the long term, they feel that the whole structure of international relations has to shift in their direction,” said Vinod C. Khanna, of the Institute of Chinese Studies, Delhi. “What has happened is that quite independently they’ve reacted very similarly to recent international events.”...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1386812.ece

[Miss Chybil]

1. Ruh-roh. nt

[BadGimp]

55. LOL

[jwirr]

2. This was inevitable. The rest of the world needs the oil that we

are threatening by our mess in the ME. It would not surprise me if the Europeans side with them. We are in the wrong in Iraq and all these other countries are not real keen on suffering for a bunch of lies just so *ss and his cartel can control ME oil.

[JanusAscending]

3. Never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd be

ROOTING FOR the OTHER GUY !!!!

[aquart]

15. Well, I'm not.

I don't want this administration. I don't want their ideas or anything else about them. But I am pretty damn sure I don't want to spend the rest of my American life subservient to Russia, China, and India.

Thank you, George, for making us an insignificant third world nation.

[sasha031]

20. but, but but.....

what about the Mango's we got from India, they might want them back!

[aquart]

39. Never ate a mango, never intend to.

They can keep their damn mangos.

[jwirr]

35. I don't think that they want us subservient. I think the rest of the

world just wants us to stop dictating to them. It is what you hear all the leaders saying. They would be happy if we just went home and started doing something about the real problems: Like our own CO2 emissions.

[aquart]

40. Uh....

While Bush has been preoccupied with being a war president, up and coming economic powers (we aren't just stagnated, we're falling behind at a frightening rate) have been meeting and cementing alliances that leave us completely out of the equation. That may be right and just and proper, BUT IT AIN'T GOOD FOR US. Venezuela has sealed deals with Brazil and China. That's in our own sphere of influence. That is way past not funny. That is catastrophe for the United States in the making.

It's not a matter of them wanting us to stop dictating, they've found the way to make it happen. They are making America irrelevant. Great for them. REALLY not great for us. We are completely unprotected in every one of those agreements. We have had NO ONE at the table speaking for us.

[jwirr]

60. I hear what you are saying but for me, I went through the Vietnam

war and protests and even back then I wanted us to stop policing the world. As to rather it is good for us or not depends a lot on how we react to it. England did not disappear just because her empire kicked her out and Germany did not even disappear when their empire was defeated. And recently Russia has made a pretty surprising comeback from the fall of their empire. Life goes on.

We have several choices to make in the near future: do we want to make ourselves self-sufficient or do we want to continue dependent on the rest of the world and enforcing our will on them by any means we have available.

I for one believe that we can be self-sufficient in almost all areas. We can rebuild the America that existed before raygun/*ss started changing it: good jobs supplying the needs of our own country, a true national guard/military that defends our shores not a bunch of corporations who have moved their bases to other countries and a balance of trade internationally and cooperation with the United Nations. But we cannot be both self-sufficient and the worlds policeman because every empire that has ever existed went down due to overstretch of its own military. They went broke playing international soldier.

As to no one at the table speaking for us: why do we have a right to speak in every corner of the world? If we were still using the United Nations as the mechanism it was meant to be we would have a say but *ss and bolton don't want anything to do with that unless it all goes our way. We are shut out because we are no longer respected enough for other areas of the world to want our advise. Sure it is bad for us but again it depends on how we react. If we clean up our own mess we can regain respect. If we give a knee-jerk reaction of fear we are going to lose every chance we have remaining.

Todd Emanuel in his book "After the Empire" reminds us that most of these countries that are joining together in regional units are emerging democracies. They do not need us to help them win freedom anymore. We need to adjust to the post-cold war era. *ss has totally failed to recognize that. Yes we need to compete with these regional alliances but we cannot do it at the end of a gun. That will only hurt us more. Fear is not going to help us win in a real economic competition. Using the same means that made us a great country in the first place to rebuild our base is what will win in the end.

[sasha031]

21. I understand how you feel

The we are #1 narcissistic bullshit has gone on way to long.

My dream for Amerika is for the word super power to be eliminated, say goodbye to the military indus rial complex and all the cronyism that goes with it.(I know I won't live long enough to see it)

But to have a country like all those Commies, Sweden for instance,or anyone else that puts people and the planet first.

[Superman Returns]

37. ehhhh

thats too far. Bush is not America. We are.

[JanusAscending]

44. HMM...................?????

No, I don't think it's too far. This is the way the world perceives us..........by our leaders. (or lack thereof) Who the hell do we think we are?? We are not supposed to be the rulers of the universe, just leaders of the free world. I think we need to go back to leading by example, rather than "do as I say, not do as I do" I'm not really "rooting" for them, but I sure as hell am AGREEING with them!!!:think:

[FiveGoodMen]

50. Since he seems to have unchecked power ...

...and since most of the people that I encounter don't seem really upset about the way he's misusing it...

I'd say that either we get rid of him or else Bush really is America.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deja Q]

54. It was said the Chinese, Russians, and Indians make up 40% of the world's populace...

Yet what's the %age of the oil they use?

[PFunk]

4. Is it my imagination or does this look like pre-WW2

Only we (the US) are the Axis.

[IndianaGreen]

6. This is a reaction to the madman in the White House

Bush is the world's biggest terrorist and the greatest threat to the peace and security of the world since the Third Reich and Imperial Japan were pushing their weight around.

You are right, we are the Axis.

[kiwilover]

13. Cheney In Charge

Bush is just an idiot tool of Cheney. What an evil family the Cheneys' are, and it starts with Dickie boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[JanusAscending]

42. You are preaching to the choir honey!!

But welcome to DU anyhow!!:hi:

[Megahurtz]

48. And don't forget Poppy!!! n/t

[northernsoul]

32. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

It's true for Newtonian physics, it's true for international relations. There's no way for this world to be dominated by a Monopower for long. This was inevitable. The big question is which way Europe will go.

*edited for typos*

[calimary]

62. 'Fraid so. Sigh. And btw, kiwilover, Welcome to DU!

I can't say I blame them, either. I desperately wish it weren't coming to this. But I can't blame them for doing so. If I were in charge in one of those countries, I think I'd be looking for ways to contain the US, also. Wow. How to win friends and influence people. :eyes:

Great job, george.

FUCKER.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. How suprising would it be if BushCo turned the USA into a second-world economy?

And if India rose to become the world economic superpower?

[sasha031]

22. that has been the plan all along

we can move into corrugated metal houses, while the elite have the world as their playground.

[Deja Q]

53. The United States of India.

Trouble is, they can't escape the issue of the Dollar.

Pity.

[Zhade]

7. Can't blame them one bit.

Can't say it makes me comfortable, either.

Yikes.

[sasha031]

23. China scares the hell out of me

I am not being racist, but through observation. They don't hold a high value for any form of life.

[calimary]

61. No kidding. I guess they don't like the idea of our rogue "president"

any more than we do.

Hey, neoCONS and republi-CONS, this is what you get when you don't keep your own in check. SOMEBODY ELSE is liable to step in and do it for you. And not on your terms, either.

Yikes, indeed.

[knight_of_the_star]

8. Uh oh

You know, I never thought I would be able to relate to the feeling that someone in Nazi Germany would have had as they watched the US and Britain grow closer and closer together. Now I have a good idea what that feeling is like.

This could get ugly. Very ugly.

[jannyk]

9. We are so screwn!! :( nt

[eridani]

10. Paul Craig Roberts has a comment on that also

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17035.htm

The Bush Regime has taken the US outside the boundaries of international law and is acting unilaterally, falsely declaring American military aggression to be "defensive" and in the interests of peace. Much of the world realizes the hypocrisy and danger in the Bush Regime's justification of the unbridled use of US military power, but no countries except other nuclear powers can challenge American aggression, and then only at the risk of all life on earth.

The solution is nonmilitary challenge.

The Bush Regime's ability to wage war is dependent upon foreign financing. The Regime's wars are financed with red ink, which means the hundreds of billions of dollars must be borrowed. As American consumers are spending more than they earn on consumption, the money cannot be borrowed from Americans.

The US is totally dependent upon foreigners to finance its budget and trade deficits. By financing these deficits, foreign governments are complicit in the Bush Regime's military aggressions and war crimes.

The Bush Regime's two largest lenders are China and Japan. It is ironic that Japan, the only nation to experience nuclear attack by the US, is banker to the Bush Regime as it prepares a possible nuclear attack on Iran.

If the rest of the world would simply stop purchasing US Treasuries, and instead dump their surplus dollars into the foreign exchange market, the Bush Regime would be overwhelmed with economic crisis and unable to wage war. The arrogant hubris associated with the "sole superpower" myth would burst like the bubble it is.

The collapse of the dollar would also end the US government's ability to subvert other countries by purchasing their leaders to do America's will.

[gordianot]

34. That is a good point, we are at the mercy of China thanks to the current Bush.

The Bush junta has/been and/is enabled by those who are now forming an alliance against us. What is the adage about being given enough rope by your enemies? BFEE will manage to hang themselves and once again be forced underground like they were following the attempted coup on Roosevelt and during the Nazi collaboration of the Second World War. Their current "New World Order" PNAC is a myth doomed to failure.

[Usrename]

11. The Coalition of the Unwilling.

I'm sure more nations will join. Where can I sign up?

[jannyk]

12. Throw this little tidbit into the mix

and we are toast! The Saudis get Nukes, Putin gets more Oil and * will still be cackling about 'Victory' over a 3rd world country. He's the reincarnation of fucking Nero!!

<<RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) - Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal said on Wednesday that the kingdom is ready to cooperate with Russia in the military and nuclear power spheres.

The comment followed a two-day visit this week by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who became the first Russian head of state to visit the kingdom.

"There are no obstacles to cooperation between the two countries in all fields concerning the military and nuclear power," Saud told reporters.

During his visit, Putin was reported to have offered Russian expertise to the kingdom in the field of nuclear energy. snip

Saud said that Moscow and Riyadh are also engaged in talks about Russia helping with arms to the kingdom, based on Saudi Arabia's military needs and on the kind of weapons Russia can provide. He did not elaborate.>>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x216078

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Why is it that I am not shocked one bit?

[chefgirl]

16. Just after the beginning of the war

Way back in 2003, I predicted this, and even posted something about it here. I actually mentioned something about Russia and China (sorry, I missed India) making nice with eachother in a common effort to check American power.

Quite a few people replied to me with derision and even laughed at what a silly concept it would be, given how 'mighty' the United States is...yeah.

I knew it was only a matter of time until something like this happened.

I've NEVER trusted Putin, given his background. When you add that to the Moron in Chief saying he could see into his soul and that he was a good man, thats just about all the justification I needed to be suspicious of him all along. I'm betting the old guard Russians, which Putin definitely is, would just love another chance at us.


The really scary part is, with this group of idiots in this administration, we wouldn't have a chance in hell if the right countries grouped together in an effort to bring us down. Hell, look what a great job the little idiot has done in Iraq!

We are well and truly fucked if this little 'meeting' bears fruit.

-chef-

[catmandu57]

28. I don't think anyone could see India

back then anyway, but when this idiot* started playing footsie with Pakistan and not very well either, it was bound to piss India off. The Chinese could bankrupt us easy, these people are fools.

[gordianot]

38. When the Chinese bankrupt us they have a lesser market for their goods.

They cook our lunch and we eat it. When they do bankrupt us there will be no need for nuclear weapons to be used by either side. This is what happens when the United States is governed by a substance abuser who is mentally ill and outright traitors are in power.

[ohio2007]

17. a more democratic “multipolar world”. ?

Which country or leader shall appoint themself leader of this democratic movement?

[ForPeace]

41. Leader of the free world

I've always disliked that phrase when applied to the American President. What hubris! Gives the impression that other democracies don't control their own destinies. How does Putin, leader of the free world sound?

[Judi Lynn]

18. Bush seems to imagine he has been attending a very large party in his honor.

It's always his birthday, everyone wants to please him, OR ELSE. What a decider!

[sasha031]

25. so true Judi Lynne

I always love your pics, they speak 1000's words.

yesterday he said he didn't get out much, living in this beautiful mansion (the white house)

Does anyone ever notice his eyes, (they always look like he's come off a drunk) and I am not comparing people who have alcohol problems to him, they are allot of the time the sweetest people.

But you give a psychopath a bottle, different story.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Will someone please get the Stupids out of the White House so we

can stand a chance to compete in the next generation?!

How much of this shit are we going to have to take. The Bush/Cheney team only give a damn about themselves. We're going to end up being cheap labor for another country at this rate.

[HughBeaumont]

24. How is this a surprise?

It's the natural reaction to what the rest of the world sees, but to our everlasting shame, our own people can't. Can we please call it what it is: a dictatorship? The people and congress are doing absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to stop this idiot reich because they're afraid of what this Cabal is going to do. We're paying the price for Americans in 2004 that were either too fearful to change or foolishly decided that things were great the way they were.

And it's just like the organization says: The World Can't Wait. They can't be hamstrung by the greed and carelessness of the idiot son. Bewsh is a BLIGHT on America's history. The sooner these people leave office and are out of power for good, the better off America will be. America better learn from this error the same way the Germans did with their historical stain known as Hitler.

[Oak2004]

45. "the people" don't know what to do about it

You can walk down most streets in America carrying a "Bush sucks" sign and get nothing but cheers from passers-by. And there is plenty of evidence that Bush was not the choice of the electorate in either 2000 or 2004. That despite the fact that the media did not stop its 24/7 propaganda blast for the regime until it became impossible for them to ignore the overwhelming opinion of the people.

The question is what can Joe Smith, warehouse worker, and Jill Doe, Wallmart greeter and single mom of two young kids, going to *do* about it? Are they supposed to grab a shotgun and try to shoot the President? Are they supposed to use skills and time and money they don't have to organize marches in Washington the can't attend where people like themselves would get to hear attitudes like "the people suck" from their so-called fellow marchers?

There is no realistic role in any genuine plans laid by any of the antiwar/antiregime groups for "the people". I see only wistful wishing for an uprising by RCP types, or a lot of marching around in circles in Washington by people who (unlike most Americans) have the money and/or leisure to do so (not that there is anything wrong with that-- I'm glad there are people who can do it because I can't-- but when it becomes a badge of honor in a participant's minds rather than a badge of happenstance and class, it becomes elitism), or which is built solely around electing Democrats and hoping they do the right thing (and there ain't no way Joe and Jill can elect any more Democrats in the next 48 hours, for starters).

Not that electing Democrats is sufficient: even here I hear Democrats gloat that if the Republicans can keep the war going till '08 they are sure to win both Congress and the Presidency. To Joe and Jill that sounds like at least some Dems are willing to sacrifice their kids for their job security.

When those persons who continue to blame "the people" in spite of the fact that Americans overwhelmingly *hate* Bush, can come up with something for "the people" to actually do to end this, and then reach out to "the people" so that they are not expected to know about the plans by telepathy or osmosis, they might find out that Joe and Jill are more than ready to act.

I suspect though the real answer is that none of us quite know what to do. Some of us are willing to uncomfortably acknowledge our predicament; others prefer to imagine themselves to be very powerful but thwarted by inferiors, and then go point fingers at scapegoats.

[mainer]

26. Meet Bush's new "Axis of Evil"

So ya gonna go fight'em, huh, Georgie? Ya gonna go show'em who's boss?

[raccoon]

27. Why, don't those Indians, Chinese, and Russians know that we

Americans have a Divine Right to that there oil?

God said so! :sarcasm: :silly:

[Deja Q]

52. God also said no American has a right to a job...

Carly Fiorina, (ex) CEO of Hewlett Packard corporation; spoken in 2004 as I recall...

[pampango]

58. China and India import oil. They don't export it.

Russia does export oil and natural gas.

[Seabiscuit]

29. No one trust the U.S. anymore since March, 2003.

[randycrow]

30. Russia, India, and China have been establishing

military alliances for some time. A big three recent meeting must mean intelligence has revealed the Neocon comrade Little George Administration plans the throw nukes soon. Clearly the Neocon’s real enemy is the US Constitution. If the members of the US Congress had been keeping their Oath of Office Little George would know he is not Commander in Chief without a declaration of war and thus he is making war on the states and Congress would have already started impeachment hearings. While we are looking at Iran, we can expect the bad guys to lay biological diseases, Marshall Law, and hyperinflation on us at home.

[PunkPop]

31. Headline edited for accuracy:

Elites in India, China and Russia meet to couter US Elites' power

I'm sure they're all sooo concerned about a "more democratic 'multipolar world'" :eyes:

[Mudoria]

33. Nailed it

:thumbsup:

[jwirr]

36. And then my friends, we add global warming and its effects to the pot!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

43. Bush will have a new 'axis of evil' 2007 style!

China, India, Russia now!

[jannyk]

46. kick

[Megahurtz]

49. After Jr. Making a Big Deal

about outsourcing all of our jobs to India, and inviting them in on working Visas LOL!:rofl:

Although however, the joke seems to be on us. :(

[Deja Q]

51. They're biting the hand that feeds...

Or the corporate America thinks the rest of the world will let them fetter their countries too...

It's a riot, the Indians and Chinese and Russians whining about the US... while ever so happily takin' US jobs.

H-Y-O-C-R-I-T-E-S?

[Flabbergasted]

56. After that whole illegal nuclear deal, which has nearly or already sacrificed

Pakistan as our ally, India went the other way. How Ironic!

[kestrel91316]

57. My biggest fear?

Bush, with his monumental hubris, goes ahead and attacks (even nukes) Iran. Russia AND China AND India come to Iran's aid by attacking the US with nukes.

I'm on the West Coast, in the biggest target this country has got. They'd be fools not to hit us here first.

:cry:

I also live amidst the largest population of Iranians in the world outside of Tehran. When he attacks them, this community will explode. They may hate the mullahs, but they will hate Bush for killing the old folks back home FAR worse.......

[Doondoo]

59. With shrub's stupid recklessness, this was downright inevitable.

[Rainscents]

63. What is matter with our corporate congress and the media!

They don't fucking care America go down.