WP: Goodbye to Girlhood: Report of the APA on the Sexualization of Girls

[DeepModem Mom]

Goodbye to Girlhood
As Pop Culture Targets Ever Younger Girls, Psychologists Worry About a Premature Focus on Sex and Appearance
By Stacy Weiner
Special to The Washington Post
Tuesday, February 20, 2007; Page HE01

Ten-year-old girls can slide their low-cut jeans over "eye-candy" panties. French maid costumes, garter belt included, are available in preteen sizes. Barbie now comes in a "bling-bling" style, replete with halter top and go-go boots. And it's not unusual for girls under 12 to sing, "Don't cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me?"

American girls, say experts, are increasingly being fed a cultural catnip of products and images that promote looking and acting sexy.

"Throughout U.S. culture, and particularly in mainstream media, women and girls are depicted in a sexualizing manner," declares the American Psychological Association's Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls, in a report issued Monday. The report authors, who reviewed dozens of studies, say such images are found in virtually every medium, from TV shows to magazines and from music videos to the Internet.

While little research to date has documented the effect of sexualized images specifically on young girls, the APA authors argue it is reasonable to infer harm similar to that shown for those 18 and older; for them, sexualization has been linked to "three of the most common mental health problems of girls and women: eating disorders, low self-esteem and depression."

Said report contributor and psychologist Sharon Lamb: "I don't think because we don't have the research yet on the younger girls that we can ignore that of harm to them. Common sense would say that, and part of the reason we wrote the report is so we can get funding to prove that."...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/16/AR2007021602263.html

LINK TO REPORT ISSUED MONDAY: http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/sexualization.html

[JI7]

1. what kind of parents allow girls to wear low cut jeans

[Warpy]

4. The kind who don't find a lot of alternatives out there

in mall stores. Spears slutwear is the norm. It's hard to find stuff that is appropriate for little girls. The little girls, not knowing anything about sexuality, really, are suckers for advertising and love all the shiny stuff they see on TV. Mom gets tired of her daughter pitching a fit and she can't find anything that'll keep her daughter looking like a KID, so she gives in.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Sad to say that department stores will keep stocking that stuff because it SELLS. Mom is usually working and doesn't have time to sit down and sew like stay at home moms used to. She's stuck.

So we have merchandisers, advertisers, and a time crunch all conspiring to turn eight year olds into sexpots. I have no idea what it will take to stop it. Maybe if Britney gets nuts enough that will do it. There's nothing like a bad example to discourage a fad.

[undergroundpanther]

6. It is a fad by design

In the older play boy nude centerfolds , The magazine had in the corner of the page a little picture of the centerfold model as a little girl.
An orgasming brain does not distinguish what is ethical stimulus because the eyes take in images indiscriminately when the brain is in orgasm mode than it is in a non orgasming mode.. So putting an image of a nude woman and a child on the same page seen together during viewing this displayed in the same context( as a sexual object to be exploited and fantasy).Maybe adult sex object and child sex object got merged in some of the subconscious minds of males getting off on these mixed message pictures in porn mags and got hooked on a fantasy that crystallized in their mind as if younger girls were just women. Maybe this type of image merging made an increase in acceptance of secret pedophilia fetishes in some men.

The unconscious mind merges images and is not as discriminating this I think can happen when porn is combined orgasm & nude images of women wearing high heel shoes or red lipstick. These "trends" do they really happen for reasons we don't know ? Is it ONLY because it sells or is it something else too?.

I think it is a question worth asking.

A person in a certain age or emotional state can have a certain fetish, obsession or fantasy merge and crystallize in their mind if they associate it with other things in their mind and sexualize it.
It's possible. And I think that by industries like porn can manipulate that process for whatever reasons.
And I think this trend of pedophilia is an effect of this idea of putting an adult nude model's picture in full display while putting a smaller picture of a little girl on the same pages as the adult sexually explicit model grown up is on, I think unconsciously it can have an effect on people who use porn alot...and reinforce the links in the unconscious mind with the reward sensations of orgasm.

The unconscious processes things we see differently than the conscious mind does.We see two different ways depending on how close or accepting we are of the material our unconscious brings up to the surface awareness.
The conscious mind filters out alot but the unconscious does not filter, and maybe that unconscious part of us is what makes such a link of things that consciously seem unconnected come out in adults as a sexualized fetish.And now that fetish for young girls has gotten common enough among men to make it possible to market slut clothes to 10 year olds without public disgust being intense enough in the parents to move the market away from selling such things

Just an Idea.. They sell because customers will buy it even if it's disturbing because it isn't disturbing enough because sexualized young girls has been somewhat normalized now,and parents are not upset by this enough and do not want to do the alternatives, like lose money from missing work to sew clothes for their kids that isn't slut chic.

[A HERETIC I AM]

126. A minor point, perhaps but it deserves a challenge.....

"In the older play boy nude centerfolds , The magazine had in the corner of the page a little picture of the centerfold model as a little girl. (Bold emphasis mine)
An orgasming brain does not distinguish what is ethical stimulus because the eyes take in images indiscriminately when the brain is in orgasm mode than it is in a non orgasming mode.. So putting an image of a nude woman and a child on the same page seen together during viewing this displayed in the same context( as a sexual object to be exploited and fantasy).Maybe adult sex object and child sex object got merged in some of the subconscious minds of males getting off on these mixed message pictures in porn mags and got hooked on a fantasy that crystallized in their mind as if younger girls were just women. Maybe this type of image merging made an increase in acceptance of secret pedophilia fetishes in some men."

I am certainly not ashamed to say that i have been looking at Playboy Magazine since the early 60's when i saw my first one. I do not EVER recall seeing on the centerfold page like you describe, a small pic of the model as a child. I defy you to show me the issues where such a thumbnail pic ever appeared.

However, i do concede that Playboy has for quite a long time had their "Bio" page (the infamous "Turn-ons, Turn-offs questions/answers) that did indeed have pics of the model as a younger person. Those pictures have always been of the "Family" type shot and never sexualized. But you insinuate these pictures appeared on the centerfold picture itself. This has never been the case.

I won't take issue with the rest of your post, even though i disagree with your assumptions. Merely looking at an attractive girl, regardless of age, does not automatically construct in the collective male mind the "fetish for young girls (that) has gotten common enough among men to make it possible to market slut clothes to 10 year olds without public disgust being intense enough in the parents to move the market away from selling such things".

Does the media and marketing play a part in fashion trends? To be sure, but to insinuate that men in general are "getting off on these mixed message pictures in porn mags and got hooked on a fantasy that crystallized in their mind as if younger girls were just women." is, quite frankly, nonsense.

[Hekate]

8. Been there, done that, fought over the slutty T-shirt

It's a real set-up if your little girl is rebellious enough to think Mom doesn't know anything about style and fashion when everywhere she looks there's all this pretty shiny stuff in the store that Mom keeps nixing in the dressing room.

I can't tell you how glad I am that my daughter is 31 and I never have to go through that again. She dresses like a decent woman -- but when she was 10 years old I was trying to keep her from dressing like an indecent 21-year-old.

Little girls want attention -- and so do big girls and grown women. There's nothing wrong with that. And little girls practice being coy on their daddies, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What little girls don't know, though, is the kind of sexual messages clothing can send, and the kind of responses it can evoke.

It's beyond creepy to me that clothing manufacturers, designers, and advertisers are so craven for profits that they are engaging in this kind of social experiment. Mothers are outnumbered.

We all made fun here of those fundy websites that offer "modest" clothes for girls, because in their own way they are pretty creepy themselves. But some of us had to admit we kinda sorta understood where the impulse to do that is coming from.

Hekate

[undergroundpanther]

10. Irony

My mom nixed the stuff she thought made me look like a boy.I had to fight for black Caterpillar construction boots,and loose levis, bandannas, a canvas Dickie's work jacket, a biker leather,and mens shirts,.Black teeshirts sleeves cut off,all ragged like.(I still wear my teeshirts this way).I caught hell from her for wearing a mens tie in a school picture once.
She tried to get me to like some of the more revealing stuff, maybe she was hoping I'd like dressing like a girl and thought if it was daring enough looking I'd do it as if she could exploit my taste for being different that way. She was wrong. I was all about T shirts,flannels .Bikers style leather, spikes, boots. Egyptian style eyeliner,And top it off with a billowing wool black cape bone hair pipe chest piece,a leather tunic,...Nothing like my peers..

[Hekate]

11. My daughter went through many stages. Her head was shaven at one point (it sunburned)...

...but that was later. We went through blue hair and black hair and braided extensions on her naturally blond hair; there were the flannel pajama bottoms worn as outdoor wear, kind of grungy things... Oh, I forgot the illegal tattoo and the tongue stud clicking against her really, really expensive teeth (her brother did both of those things too). Some of this took place after she left home, but not all of it. After a certain point I had zero input.

When I was young I had friends who were hippies and I well-remember the parental drama over long hair on boys -- so there's a lot about clothes and hair that doesn't bother me at all. Attitude bothers me. And smoking.

Mostly I just wanted to get my daughter to a point past the age of incredible vulnerability and naivete before advertising her sexuality, assuming she wanted to do that -- which is why sexy clothes for pre-teen girls sets me off.

Your story made me laugh, Panther -- yes, at the irony. As parents, we can't win. We can choose some of our battles, but not all of them.

It sounds as though you found your stylistic niche and stuck with it, though. :hi:

Hekate

[ForPeace]

39. With me it was "comfortable" shoes

I'm with you undergroundpanther. My mom condemned my "comfortable" shoes. She wore high heels all her life and she was the head of a girl's school. In those days it was all about getting daughters married off and she thought I would never find a man if I wore comfortable shoes. Maybe some moms still think that way.

[AnneD]

19. There are always alternatives....

if you don't go to malls. This trend was starting when my daughter was 10. I totally put my foot down about this. I started taking my daughter to second hand shops and small mom and pop stores. To my surprise- she loved them-esp the resale shops. Because the clothes were WELL within my budget-she seldom heard the word no from me. As we were walking out of the clothing store for the first time, she turned to me and said-'I really like this place, it has more clothes that are different'.

The other thing I did was have no tv(gasp!). If you have a farm, you're going to track dirt in. A tv drags popular culture into your home, and at this age, that's not what you want. I also took some of the fashion magazines and showed her how the pictures are doctored. It was the best thing I ever did to promote her self esteem. Girls that are secure in themselves don't need to 'dress to impress'.

Today at soon to be 17, she is very attractive and confident about herself. She loves second hand shops or makes her own clothes (she has a part-time job in a fabric shop). She is very stylish but dresses appropriately. She a an eye for good fashion.

Don't give up the fight. Children loose their childhood soon enough, don't let them be robbed of their innocence too.

[Warpy]

24. That's what I've pushed my friends with daughters toward

the second hand shops. The daughters find out they can get a GREAT BIG BAG of clothing instead of having to pitch a fit at the mall to get one slutwear top. They have great fun trying to piece together outfits. They may not be fashionable, but in the words of Barbara Kingsolver, they are memorable.

Eventually, all the reasonable clothing from 15 years ago is going to run out and daughters will be dressing to attract 40 year old perverts. I hope the fad is OVER by then, that Britney's identity crisis turns her into a more reasonable young woman who dresses in classics and doesn't mouth GOP propaganda, and that retailers wake the fuck up.

(me? Oh, my mother was smart and introduced me to thrift shops and discount houses early on. I have a very classic fashion sense and wish stores would stock clothing somewhere between 18 and overheated and 70 and on a cruise.)

[AnneD]

28. From the looks of things

in the 2nd hand stores-it will be a while before they run out. And besides-the hunt is part of the charm. I would give my daughter a clothing budget and she found that she had money to spare when she shopped at 2nd hand shops. She could buy a cool back pack or fancy shoes to go with her clothes. I would even pitch in a bit more if she were close-she had done so well with the wardrobe.
Now-I am totally amazed at the clothing bargins she finds. We have some really great stores here in Houston.

[NashVegas]

44. The Thing About "Slutwear"

Is that it tends to be too poorly made to make it to the second-hand stores. At least, that's what one would think.

[apnu]

31. Right On!

I'm a new dad, and I have a son (currently 9 1/2 months old) so this discussion doesn't fully concern me right now. I'm happy I don't have to worry about this particular problem (the slutting of girls) but I feel terrible for parents who do. However this discussion just reminded me that these kinds of fight are going to happen in my house in 10 or so years so I better be ready.

Your main points however are exactly where I am as a parent (and thankfully Mrs. Apnu agrees) I hate malls and only go there when I have the unfortunate moment of being out in the suburbs. So we avoid them and there is only so much crass commercialism I can take before the migraine begins. I'm with you: no malls.

Also TV, we too turn it off. The TV is never on unless we're actually using it to watch something very specific (DVD or DVR'd program) the only time I watch live TV is if there is some kind of special event (Superbowl, Presidential Convention/Debate) and that's it. I see a lot of people who just turn the thing on just to have what appears to me as background noise in the house. That drives me nuts. With Little Apnu, we allow him only 20 minutes per day of TV. Mostly of the Baby Einstein variety so that Mrs. Apnu can do a thing or two in the house. Otherwise he does not get to vegetate in front of the TV. Hopefully that will give him a good habit of being engaged in the world and not content to sit by and watch everything happen on the idiot box.

[Mad_Dem_X]

81. Good for you!

More parents would do well to take a page or two from your book.

[redqueen]

35. I have no problems finding decent clothes...

I shop at Target and the like, not the mall.

I don't find those excuses too convincing.

[undergroundpanther]

9. I wore low cut jeans

For comfort. Back in the 70's everyone wore skin tight jeans in school.I didn't like to wear skin tight gloria Vanderbilt's. So I wore boys levis.Because I was tall and my hips narrow they ended up looking like low cut jeans because they were loose. So I wore long tunic tops with them that hung down to the very tops of my thighs. Nothing showed.That shouldn't.And I could wear what was comfortable for me, even though to my peers it was strange.I also wore big flowing hooded capes and looked like a goth, but before there was a goth. I caught hell for daring to make my own style.I'd be a billionare for all the times I heard you think it's halloween??!But sure enough the popular girls imitated me in small timid ways like wearing feathers in their hair and the small stuff I did after they harassed me over it. It was kinda funny..

[Sabriel]

26. Same ones who buy their kindergarteners "Cherry" pants to wear

Yes, one of my daughter's classmates had a pair of sweatpants with "Cherry" across the butt, along with a matching t-shirt with two cherries on the front. And the t-shirt was a shorty.

Yeek.

[NotGivingUp]

131. OMG...that's really pitiful.

[zonkers]

41. My niece is ten and wears'em. My sister is a lame ass mom. Her kid's room is

disorganized, she does her homework all the time and she is obsessed with all this anime crap that has content that is way too adult themed. I worry. If I had kids, there would be no Disney channel and they would be reading the classics -- one a month.

[keroro gunsou]

61. *AHEM!*

not all anime is adult-themed crap. Anything by Hayao Miyazaki is appropriate for all ages. There is plenty of good anime out there, problem is, the market in America is for the "adult-themed crap," as you so delicately put it. I'd suggest a bit more research on your part before you label all anime crap.

Yes, I take shots like that personally. I worked for a company that imported and translated manga.

[MassLiberal]

95. you're right about manga and anime

My 13-year-old daughter loves anime and manga, but she tells me that she's not attracted to the R-rated stuff (and I've looked at her books and movies, so I know she's telling me the truth)--the stories she likes have to do with girls saving the environment or their people, or going on magical journeys into other worlds, and maybe a little romance but it's all very innocent. She knows her boundaries. And this is a kid who dresses in jeans, t-shirts, and hoodies--she also knows her boundaries when it comes to her appearance. It hasn't been easy to raise her and her older (16) sister in this world--I faced the slutwear issue when they were little and often chose to dress my daughters out of the boy's department when they were younger.

It's interesting: even though I was young during the pre-women's movement days of the early '60s--when girls had to wear dresses to school except on gym day--young girls' clothes were much less sexist (and sexy) than they are now. When I was in elementary school, my playclothes consisted of jeans ("dungarees"), corduroys, or shorts (NOT hot pants) in warm weather, with pullover jerseys or polo shirts and sneakers. Nothing was pink. Not too different from what the boys were wearing. Now, in our feminist world, girls AND boys' clothing is much more sexist--it's as if we're so anxious about defining the sex roles that we do so even through our children's clothing.

[NotGivingUp]

132. i don't shop for kids' clothes very often, but i couldn't believe it the last time i did.

everything on the girls' side was pink, purple or red. the boys could choose from every color but pink. how pitiful.

[zonkers]

121. Of course I agree not all anime is crap. But the stuff that reaches my niece is

a bit too mature for her. I am a bit ticked off at her local library that allows her to sign it out. I think the ones I were looking were produced by tokyo pop.

[mzmolly]

85. Those who don't know any better.

My sister is a Head Start Teacher and she says the FOUR year old girls come dressed in highly inappropriate clothing. FOUR.

I asked her to reflect on that and she said some parents think "if they sell it" it must be ok? :eyes:

[villager]

2. the "family values" of unbridled capitalism....

n/t

[PassingFair]

3. I counter the "culture"

...by voicing disapproval and appropriate, well placed derision.

Thank you Britney and Anna Nicole, for your
horrible lifestyle examples.

Now, if only Paris would hit the skids....

[Dora]

60. The Paris Difference.

Paris was born with wealth, and that safety net is unlikely to ever be pulled away.

Both Britney and Anna Nicole came from humbler beginnings and their grip was far more tenuous.

[PassingFair]

92. Drug Overdoses and Car Crashes...

have a way of crossing barriers...

[undergroundpanther]

5. KICK and recommended .

Add the story above to the fact girls and boys are getting secondary sex characteristics shockingly early,because their hormones are messed up. Is it the Growth hormones in milk, meat and in the water perhaps? Where do the hormones end up? When you flush birth control pills or pharmaceutical companies dump them? It does not leave the planet when a cow dies or a human takes a dump or when unused growth hormones are thrown in the trash.. it still is sitting somewhere on this planet leaching out and affecting our bodies because we live on a polluted planet that is getting more toxic everyday. As chemical companies churn out more and more chemicals and hormones and various stuff that change the productivity of one species to help the dairy and meat industry get more product out of a cow than a cow can naturally produce.All can suffer for the God profit even if it takes a few decades to see the damage been done to our kids IS really happening..Who checks what industry does really? the FDA Bwahahaha, the FDA might as well be a corporate advocacy arm of the state...The companies don't care..about our kids, they care about profits and protecting their own and that is IT. We are expendable as are our kids to these pigs.


This commercial rush to get girls to dress as sexually mature along side their child innocence and immaturity makes a PERFECT arrangement for pedophiles to exploit girl kids don'tcha think? It's so EVIL.

Get little girls are conditioned by the market to believe if they dress like ho's they won't be a accepted by their peers,they'll look back wards, and as industrial chemicals and hormones force their bodies to mature too fast, they have the emotional maturity and judgment of an 8 year old ,All packaged in a smaller easier to overpower child's body that looks adult like enough for a selfish grown man to fool himself into thinking it's OK to fuck her..

The pedophiles are probably loving this shit. Girls gone wild..yeah..I hate this shit.It causes nothing but pain.

All I can say this stuff is so sad and so sickening . I commented on this trend years ago in 1996 and people who read my observations thought I was lying, called me a prude or said I was nuts claiming conspiracy. All I know it is very sick trend for little girls to emulate and it has gotten worse this style thing and hormonal damage and sex with younger girls gets more"normalized". To me it is very cruel for a culture to foist this adult sexuality upon girls,and it will lead to more girls being hurt by stupid selfish men who see girls as objects to fuck not real people, and assholes who think they can get away with having sex with a 11 year old with her hormones artificially rushed.Easy to forget the girl is A KID that has breasts like an 18 year old ,dresses like a 25 year old stripper and still has the mind of a 11 year old.Is it fare for a grown pig man to take advantage of a girl in this sort of confused mess? NO..It's NOT.

I really do hate this "civilized" rape culture world, I do hate porn I hate it..I hate porn because of the sick but too often denied dehumanizing attitudes it fosters in men about women and the fact it is a for profit industry almost impossible to regulate to keep people acting in it from being exploited really. I hate these "side effects" of what "progress" has cost us as human beings.I hate this hierarchical stupid consumer society full of denial, and hypocrisy, double standards and make believe. This craziness of of ever forward without thinking of consequences, and this faith in technology as if it is always good for us blinded mentality. I hate this homogenized anti nature control freaked world, this exploitation world, this psychopath world.

[NotGivingUp]

133. good post. i feel exactly the same.

[SoCalDem]

7. Grade school girls in 1961-1962..11-12-13 yr olds who were still girls..not teens

[grasswire]

12. amazing

clean kids, fresh clothes, truly happy looking faces with no "'tudes" -- I just realized how much things have changed after seeing these.

[Solon]

13. Before you guys get into a 50s and 60s love fest with these pictures...

Realize first, that, except for the last picture, most schools were segregated. Also, at least 1 in 4 of those kids lived in homes where both parents worked, about 1 in 3 lived in homes where a parent beat them, and at least 1 in 4 of the girls are going ended up getting pregnant in 2 to 5 years.

Not to mention that I don't know how many lived in "unhappy" homes, i.e. households where Mom and Dad should have got a divorce, but it was verboten because of social ostracizing or lack of no fault divorce laws. My guess is that half those kids had forced smiles, as is expected in class pictures.

[rman]

14. I don't think that means

girls were as sexualized then as they are now.

[Solon]

15. Depends on what you mean by "sexualized"...

Times and fashions change over generations, at one time, the miniskirt was all the rage, after all, and it could be considered a way to "oversexualize" girls. Not to mention corsets and other implements. My mother was relating to me that by the time she was about 13 or so, miniskirts were the rage, and the school didn't ban them yet either, this was in about 1963. Of course, she was pissed because by the time she entered high school, they had the "above the knee" rule. :)

This is one of those "pet peeves" of mine, to be honest, things today are actually, by and large, BETTER for kids than in the past, violence among youth is on a downwards spiral, teenage pregnancy is actually quite a bit less than in the 1950s, when it actually peaked, etc.

There's a difference between confronting reality and denying it, the only difference between, let's say, teen pregnancy in the 1950s and today, is that in the 1950s, most girls didn't have access to birth control, and most were sent "away" for their pregnancies, to avoid embarrassment for their families. Today, many schools now implement programs of choice and maternal learning for young mothers, in addition there are more choices, whether condoms or the pill.

Teenagers of today are no more sexually active than in the past, and in fact, may be less so on average, when, 200 or more years ago, it was TYPICAL to marry off 13 year old girls to men for various reasons. Just because a girl has more covering her doesn't mean she isn't still sexualized. Whether girls are hyper sexualized now is beside the point, what should be a matter of concern is HOW they are taught to at least be safe in all manners of life, sexual or otherwise.

To be honest, the way they dress should be the least of our concerns. Pregnancy and STD prevention should be the priority here. Boys and Girls will act as, well, boys and girls, regardless of how either of them dress, they have acted this way since Humans first walked the Earth. The parent's responsibility is to actually use our experiences so they don't repeat some of our mistakes.

[rman]

17. How many pre-teens were wearing mini skirts back when it was in fashion?

(in fashion for adults, that is)

I'm going by the same definition of 'sexualizing girls' as the OP, so there's no need to discuss what we mean by "sexualization".

I think it is clear that it is not about "girls" as such but about pre-teens/early teen, many of whom these day are dressed like porn stars. I find it hard to imagine that's due to some natural development.

[Solon]

20. A lot...

You have to remember that girls, back then, were REQUIRED to wear skirts of some sort. The school my mother went to just didn't specify the length of it. So when miniskirts came out, damned near every girl in school wore one. It got so bad the school changed the policy and allowed the girls to wear slacks and bluejeans, in addition to requiring only certain skirt lengths, that's when hip huggers came into fashion. :)

These were girls that were in late middle school to senior year high school, from about 12 years old to 18. These kids, teenagers, like to rebel, and clothing is one of the ways to do that. It's one of those generational things. Also, I don't get the "pornstar" quip, are these girls wearing NOTHING at all or something?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. I never understood this "trousers are not for girls" thing. -nt

[Solon]

27. Its a mystery to me to, before my time...

as I implied. When I was in Middle and High school, back in the Early to Mid 1990s, girls wore all sorts of outfits, miniskirts, slacks, bluejeans, whatever, all I know is that I never complained. :)

[SemperEadem]

107. it had to do with a biblical admonition

that women were not allowed to wear men's clothing...

[NashVegas]

46. In My Catholic School

Girls who always wore their hems as high as we could get away with.

[HockeyMom]

77. My Mom was a Seamstress

She would take up the hems on the skirt unform for me. lol She actually took off the waistband and shortened it from there so the Nuns would not be able to tell it was shortened.

Yep, my Mom was very cool for the times.

[SemperEadem]

108. the girls at my school would wear shorts under our uniforms

solved so many issues.

[poverlay]

101. And us boys loved you for it... n/t

[NashVegas]

116. Hee

Thanks.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

125. As one who is from the same era as those pictures...

Yes, girls were required to wear skirts, but the miniskirts didn't really come into general use before about 1964. If a girl wore a skirt that was too short by the standards of the school, she'd be sent home to change.

Even then, there were distinctive "little girl" fashions that were different from teenage or women's fashions. Little girls wore smock-like dresses, often with tights, for school or other non-casual occasions. For play, they wore long pants or shorts (at the natural waist) and some sort of top that came all the way down to their waist or past it. See old TV shows for reference.

This past Christmas, we viewed slides of my family's 1967 trip to Europe. My nieces and nephews were surprised at how "formal" we all looked. My brothers, then 12 and 14, were wearing pants with belts and shirts with collars and buttons. In most of the pictures, I, age 17, was wearing a jumper (just above the knee) or a skirt (also just above the knee) with a blouse. To my nephews, who always dress as if they just came off the basketball court, no matter what the occasion, this made us "formal."

[regularguy]

22. What you said.

Every generation carries on about how the next generation is sexually out of control. I'm not buyin'.

[rman]

23. Not the OP nor i said these pre-teens are sexually out of control. nt

[AnneD]

29. There has always been tension....

but it really is getting worse these days. More schools are going to uniforms because it has gotten so out of control. And add gang colour and attire to the mix and it gets deadly. I didn't try pushing until I was in Junior High (7th). The clothes were out there for my daughter in the fourth grade.
And it is not only clothes that has gotten more 'sophisticated' for the younger kids. Toy manufactures window of opportunity (when kids will actually play with toys) had diminished too. I am so thankful I still have elementary kids that will play chess, but we try to get them young too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. "gang colour"

:spray:

[Morgana LaFey]

56. Simplistic and just plain wrong.

There are ways that "things" are a bit better for pre-teen girls these days, but yours is a downright dangerous assertion, frankly, because there are ways in which they are worse, way worse and this premature sexualization of young girls is one of them.

I'd also say that you're frankly not in much of a position to judge the matter since you haven't lived thru both periods and aren't a sociologist studying the matter.

One of the reasons I'm against Gardisil as a mandated vaccine for 9 year olds is that little girls of that age shouldn't even have any idea why such a vaccine should be needed, and frankly shouldn't have to be told.

This oversexualization is a form of societal sexual abuse, IMO. It's certainly an effort by those promoting it to "groom" young girls to be more willing and hopefully promiscuous sexual partners later (to have loose sexual boundaries), and to be far more sanguine about the continued sexual objectification of women in the media and everywhere else. It must surely also appeal to pedophiles, and who needs that?

It's wrong, and I despise those like Brittany Spears who have contributed to it, although I realize that in all likelihood they are/were victims too.

[Solon]

104. So, protecting girls from cancer is wrong because it teaches the wrong morals, to you?

I'm sorry, I value girls' lives much more than that.

[grasswire]

34. blah blah blah blah blah blah

And I'm being kind.

[SemperEadem]

106. there is no difference

except that pathology was not discussed; it was repressed and a good face was put on so that no one knew the truth of what was going on. I'll bet at least 3 kids in those pictures was either being sexually abused, witnessing their mom getting beaten once a week, witnessing their dad getting drunk. Don't buy into romantacising that time as 'the good old days'... for many, many people, it wasn't.

[PlanetBev]

32. Was that your class, SoCalDem?

I was in the 6th grade in Los Angeles in 1962, with a bunch of spoiled rich kids. At that age, through Jr. High School, you get treated like an insect.

I wouldn't go back to being 12, not for a million dollars laid out on the lawn.

[SoCalDem]

75. Nope.. but it "could" have been

I found them online.. I think it was bellingham Washington..but it could have been Anytown, USA

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. My goodness.

Some of those harlots are exposing their ankles.

[youngdem]

16. This saddens me....I have seen also that some sick bastard makes infant THONGS !!!

:puke:

[poverlay]

18. The infant thong thing is over the top, but probably more of a joke than a real attempt to foist

sexuality on our infants. As the father of a 12 year old girl who just got her period, I'd like to put in my 2 cents here.
First I don't believe that the only thing available to buy is "slut" clothes. I do all the shopping for/with my little girl and have had no problem finding nice clothes that are not "slutty". I shop at Target, Mervyns, J.C. Penney and occasionally the mall boutique stores.
Second, I know my daughter may have some tight, or low cut jeans on, but that is the fashion and I've never seen some older or even younger guy whistle at her or even check her out inappropriately. Neither have I noticed even the slightest mental health problem.
Much of the emphasis, is added by us. The amount we freak out directly affects their choosing. Mild disapproval vs. complete freakout and everything in between is directly related to their continued choices.

I'm sure I have more to say, but I have to run and take her to school. I'll ask her about it in the car...

[roody]

53. I teach first grade,

and when these girls sit down on the rug, criss cross applesauce, their butt crack is in full view. They do not know that the norm is to cover your crack. Well my norm anyway. I teach them.

[poverlay]

99. So these parents are purposely dressing their daughters so as to show off their

buttcracks? To what purpose? How many girls in a given day are showing inappropriate "skin"? I didn't even think a first grader could be that inappropriate.

I am just flabbergasted.
Are you telling me that these parents honestly want their little girls to be sexy, or that these little girls themselves want to be sexy?

I've been a parent for twelve years and I simply cannot wrap my mind around it.

By the way, where do you teach all these little floozies? (J/K about the floozies---I hope!)

[roody]

103. Northern California.

These are the girls clothes sold at WalMart. They only show your crack when you sit down.

[poverlay]

110. Does this mean we should have been worried about the sexualization of plumbers all these years? n/t

[AnneD]

117. In the case of plumbers..

I think it is aesthetics rather than sexualization.

[poverlay]

118. I don't know. I've seen some pretty hot plumbers... Actually, I would like to make the point that

my wife wears comfortable clothes that are not in any way sexual(sensible work clothes,) and she often has a problem, especially when bending over or squatting, where her underthings show. I think it's just how the human body is made. If someone wants to add some sexual inference where none is intended, then that is their problem and should not be projected upon her. I have to constantly remind her of it and she wears a belt when she otherwise wouldn't due to comfort reasons because someone might be offended, or aroused, or ~~ whatever. That seems wrong to me.

[AnneD]

120. That is what is wrong with all society....

having some undergarments showing is not sexual, walking at night is not asking for it, wearing a fashionable short skirt if you are young and good looking doest not mean you are a hooker-yet women are raped every day and this is STILL being used as defense by attackers. Women are so use to this we take precautions as second nature anymore. We don't go out by ourselves at night, we always have our keys in our hand when we go out to the car, we park close to the store and by a light if it is dark, plan the safest route before running, get gas before it gets too dark-things that I bet men seldom think about. These are the hidden and not so hidden costs of being a women in our society. I for one, don't want this to seep down to the little girls for goodness sake. They deserve a childhood-they have to grow up too fast anyway.

[poverlay]

122. I agree with you whole-heartedly. As a husband and father I live in constant fear

for my girls. They get so tired of my warnings and safety precautions that now I actually fear they will ignore them out of fatigue and get hurt!
While I also agree with your last comment, I have to point out that our little children don't have a choice. Neither do we. It's some sick bastard that would take pleasure in hurting them. Sexuality is only an excuse for a power crime that has nothing to do with the sex or outward disposition(including age, wardrobe, or demeanor).
The only way to ensure a decent childhood for our children is to be overly-vigilant. I never assumed that my children were safe anywhere except with me or my(and my wife's) parents. More work for us, yes. That's just being a good parent.

[roody]

136. Who would have thought the refrigerator repairman

look would be the latest fashion?

[Morgana LaFey]

57. It doesn't sound like what we're talking about applies to your

daughter. I did see some objection, in a response to your post, to hip huggers, but that's mild compared with what some children are wearing today. I could live with hip huggers...

[poverlay]

98. I guess maybe I just haven't run into the problem yet. I see the kids at my daughter's school

everyday, and I never see anything that is totally inappropriate.

Where does everyone live that the schools allow such outfits and the stores sell only slut gear?

[tblue37]

21. I have a piece entitled "Tot Tarts" on my

Who's Minding the Children website that you might like to read. In it I deal with this issue of the sexualization of children.

[Morgana LaFey]

58. Link?

I'd like to read it but I'm not going to go searching for it.

[tblue37]

111. Sorry--I was hurrying and I forgot. Here it is:

http://www.childrensneeds.homestead.com/tottarts.html

[KitSileya]

30. I am sooo grateful that when I was a pre-teen/teen, the norm was the baggier the better.

I used shirts that were big enough to wear as dresses, baggy jeans, big sweaters with t-shirts underneath for warmth etc. Our wollen scarves were so big, we used them around both our necks and over our head, hijab style. I was a teen in the late 80s, early 90s.

These days it's the smaller the better, and the cleavage shown by some of my students! I must say, I get distracted by them - I keep wondering if their breasts will fall out. They wear low-rise sweatpants in the dead of winter, sneakers in two feet of snow, jackets that are so short in the waist that they bare their belly button in -5 degrees C. And then they wonder why they keep cycling bronchitis - two weeks of bronchitis, three weeks well, two weeks sick, etc. The boys don't wear proper jackets and footwear either, but at least their clothes don't make them resemble hookers looking for a john.

[LibDemAlways]

33. I volunteer in the office at my daughter's middle

school and have seen it all. Girls in low cut tops with their breasts hanging out, girls sent to the office for wearing mini skirts without undies, French Maid and Pimp costumes on Halloween. Where are the parents of these kids? Yes, it's hard to find appropriate clothing, but there's no excuse for sending a young teen to school looking like a streetwalker.

[redqueen]

37. It really is not that hard.

I don't get why that claim keeps being made. It's simply not the case.

[LibDemAlways]

47. It's true that more modest clothing is out there, but

try getting a kid into it when it's not what the "cool" kids are wearing. Peer pressure is tremendous at that age. And it's not just girls who feel it.

I have a friend who always bought her son house brand tee shirts from Penneys until this year when he told her other kids were calling him a "nerd." He insisted on a trip to one of the trendier stories where they sell the brands popular with kids so he would no longer be treated like an outcast. The mom complained loudly to me that the name brands cost considerably more, but that she felt she had no choice since it was such a big deal to her son.

[redqueen]

51. I look at those times as opportunities

to educate your children on how NOT to be a lemming.

[LibDemAlways]

59. I hear you, but peer acceptance is so important at that age

that parents are really caught in the middle. I still remember being laughed at in 6th grade because of the saddle shoes my mom bought for me. As a shy kid, it made me withdraw even more. No amount of discussion about not being a sheep would have helped. I would have given anything to fit in and not be ridiculed.

[redqueen]

63. But do you think it helped or hurt you in the long run?

I went through the same thing... with hand me downs and boy's clothes and such.

I think that adversity, which I truly hated at the time, made me a stronger person.

[LibDemAlways]

73. I think it hurt me in the long run. It was

devastating. To this day I'm extremely sensitive about personal criticism and go out of my way to avoid situations in which I think I may be judged. To make matters worse I live in an area of Southern California in which appearance is everything. The average mom at my daughter's school weighs 90 pounds, wears size 0 jeans, and has had a boob job. These are the "role models" my daughter's friends go home to.

[redqueen]

76. Ugh...

My sister lives in that area, too. Sick.

I guess we all react differently to similar situations. That's why there's no cookie-cutter guide to parenting, I suppose.

:hi:

[booksenkatz]

65. Oh, I definitely know what that feels like

I'm not saying it's easy. I was terribly shy, and back in the early 70s, if you had more than a 2" rise in your jeans and/or a bell smaller than 24", then you were a dork, period. My mother stood her ground and sent me to school in mid-rise jeans that were utterly embarrassing and for which I was teased mercilessly. I hated middle school with my entire being. But I survived. It made me stronger. Kids should be taught the insanity of going to the wall over a shirt or being willing to die on the hill for a pair of jeans or shoes. There are 10,000,000 more important issues in the world, that is where their attention should be focused. It's just such a waste of time and energy.

[LibDemAlways]

69. I agree with your basic premise. Of course, there are

a million issues more important. But, I suppose you have to ultimately choose your battles, and if it makes a kid feel happy and good about him/herself to fit in with the other kids (within reason), I don't see why a parent shouldn't meet the kid halfway.

[booksenkatz]

71. Halfway is cool

It teaches a child how to compromise.

But hey, what do I know. We're the mean parents who won't let our little boy wear clothing with words on it to school. We want him to send the message that he takes school seriously and that he knows he's in class to learn. Crazy clothes, character clothes, clothes with words are for weekends or after-school events. Maybe it's just a coincidence that our son loves school, takes it seriously, and goes to class to learn.:silly:

Signed,

Mean Mom:D

[cally]

90. I always taught my kids to use fabric paint and put their own sayings

on. I would never buy a shirt for myself or my kids, when younger, with any writing on it. I did allow them to decorate the shirts, though. It seems to have worked. My 19 and 16 year old refuse to wear any clothing with brand names and both will occassionally modify clothing to what they want.

[Morgana LaFey]

82. That works for some kids and not for others -- and SOME of why

may be whether the child is being outcast, and worse: bullied and humiliated.

Nice philosophy, one I support and uphold completely, but it can't work in all cases. Some children end up committing suicide because of the way they're treated at school -- probably not over just their dress, but if some compromise on that issue would make a bullied child safer, then it would be worth it.

(Which does NOT mean I would approve overly sexualized and revealing clothing for 9 year old girls.)

[redqueen]

83. Agreed... it's not a one-size-fits-all way of dealing with it...

such a tough job, parenting.

[Castleman]

89. So true, teach them to be INDIVIDUALS!

Wearing a Cheap Trick t-shirt in my 97% non-white, disco-fied, Jr. High School taught me a HELL of a lot about being an individual.
As one of my all time heroes, Ray Davies says: "I'm NOT LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!"
Screw dressing and acting like everyone else.

[redqueen]

119. "Screw dressing and acting like everyone else."

:loveya:

[booksenkatz]

62. If it's soooooooo important to him

she should let him pay for the difference between the pricey crap and what she's willing to spend. That's what I do with my 7-year-old. If he wants something that I don't see as vital to his survival, he can sure as heck save up his own money for it. (Webkinz toys comes to mind.) The problem comes when the parents don't think to teach their children how to manage their money. When a kid has to spend his OWN cash on the crap, quite often the crap suddenly doesn't seem to be so important anymore.

Of course, I'm lucky in that my son so far has never cared a whit about fashion. He absolutely does not care what he wears to school. No fashion sense whatsoever. (His father is an engineer, so it kinda makes sense, LOL.) I have gotten away with buying his clothes at Target and Kohl's for all of these years, so maybe I'm just spoiled!;)

[LibDemAlways]

67. Wait until he's a teenager and all the "cool" guys are

wearing "Volcom" or whatever is in fashion then. There's a world of difference between a 7-year-old and a teenager when it comes to appearance and wanting to "fit in." Ultimately, for the sanity of the parent and the self-image of the kid, I think some sort of compromise is essential.

[booksenkatz]

72. True

I know I'm not out of the woods yet. But if he wants the more expensive brand, that's what his allowance and his after-school job money will be for. He'll have to decide what's important to him. Priorities. Goal setting. Budget management. My parents did it that way, and I hated their guts for it at the time, but now I am constantly thanking them for standing their ground and teaching me how to be a responsible human being!

Brand names mean as much to me as the paper I flush down the toilet. Most of the time (not all), store brands are no different from brand names. At least, from my experience.

[roody]

36. No Escaping the Sexualization of Girls

No Escaping Sexualization of Young Girls
With JonBenet back in the headlines, it's hard for a parent to avoid paranoia.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0825-33.htm

by Rosa Brooks

 

It's been a good week for the media, and a bad week for parents.
The arrest of former schoolteacher John Mark Karr in the slaying of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey launched a flurry of excited stories about pedophiles, child abduction and murder. The cable news stations could hardly hide their glee, and even the New York Times joined in.
In a two-part series on pedophilia, the newspaper reported that many pedophiles now use Internet support groups to swap how-to tips on getting jobs as camp counselors and teachers. Increasingly, the Times said, "pedophiles view themselves as the vanguard of a nascent movement seeking legalization of child pornography and the loosening of age-of-consent laws. They portray themselves as battling for children's rights to engage in sex with adults…."

--snip--

But as the mother of preschool girls, I know how easy it is to succumb to irrational panic in the face of this week's 24/7 media obsession with pedophilia.
All summer I'd absent-mindedly allowed my little barbarians to streak through the house naked, bodies festooned with grape jelly and Crayola Washable Markers. Now, with pedophiles apparently lurking everywhere, demanding civil rights and social acceptance, I was suddenly insisting that the girls put their clothes back on, right this minute, please.

--snip

In a culture in which the sexualization of childhood is big business — mainstream mega-corporations such as Disney earn billions by marketing sexy products to children too young to understand their significance — is it any wonder that pedophiles feel emboldened to claim that they shouldn't be ostracized for wanting sex with children? On an Internet bulletin board, one self-avowed "girl lover" offered a critique of this week's New York Times series on pedophilia: "They fail, of course, to mention the hypocrisy of Hollywood selling little girls to millions of people in a highly sexualized way." I hate to say it, but the pedophiles have a point here.

[redqueen]

38. I think this is why more moms don't fight against the trend...

http://www.uvm.edu/~tstreete/powerpose/index.html

[roody]

43. My browser won't let me look.

Another reason is that many of the moms are dressed the same.

[redqueen]

52. Exactly.

The link shows how advertising encourages women to consider attracting the 'male gaze' as a very important method of gaining power. If the mom is convinced, she will no doubt see little harm in encouraging her daughter to do the same.

[booksenkatz]

68. God, you're so right

If only we could teach them early that the only gaze that matters is the one they see looking back at them in the mirror. True power never comes from without, but only from within. I didn't learn that lesson until I was over 30!:(

[knitter4democracy]

74. Very interesting. It said what I've been thinking for awhile.

I just couldn't figure out how to say it. Great link. I might have to read it again to see if I can figure it all out.

[redqueen]

128. Glad you liked it!

I sure found it interesting...

[NashVegas]

115. I Looked at That ... Some Thoughts, From an Artist's View

Across all aspects of visual media, more specifically, commercial visual mediums, there is what is called "the money shot." The phrase comes (as far as I know) from film directors' instructed to 'sex up' their films or, in porn films, the shot where a female's face is ejaculated on.

But even without that porn (by strict definition) angle, the money shot exists everywhere in advertising and other commercial photography. It is an image that controls the gaze of the viewer. Being able to control a viewer's gaze is an important skill.

You can occasionally see examples of this in the DU photography forum's monthly photo contests. Such shots are usually extreme close-ups with a depth of field that forces you to concentrate on the subject of the photographer's choosing. Ever hear the phrase, "food porn?" That's what you see in gourmet magazines.

Knowing this, is it surprising that advertisements that use sex as a selling point would use this tactic?

Even before photography, in many nude female portraits, the subject is in the subordinate positions mentioned in the article you point to (more on that below) and perfectly aware of their sexual appeal.

Tangentally, women have known for milleniums that *appearing docile* (not = being docile) is a way of appealing to male interest while also being able to control the pace of courtship.

We can't stop the advertising and entertainment industries from using sex as a selling point, but I'd like to point out, here, that images of women who are aware of and in control of their sexuality is, IMO, healthier than images of women who aren't and don't.

[redqueen]

127. I see your points...

However... I don't see that condoning this behavior where women are encouraged to appear in any way submissive in order to attract male attention is a good thing.

I don't think these women can be said to be in control of their sexuality, if the nature of that sexuality is conditioned to be one of submissiveness and even immaturity.

[NashVegas]

138. Key Word: "If"

..

[redqueen]

139. It seems fairly obvious to me from those pictures

that it is most often the case. Not in every case of course... there are sexy, strong women. However it seems pretty clear that fashion magazines and their ilk are not conveying that message (sexy = strong) through the images they use.

[The2ndWheel]

45. It's not just the sexualization

Kids have to do everything earlier and earlier. Childhood is a non-productive state. I mean that in the most economic sense possible. It's productive in the human way, but not in the machine way.

[hedgehog]

48. Like it or not, it happens because parents let it happen or encourage it.

A lot of parents think it's cute to dress children as miniature adults. If the kids' clothes are too sexualized, check out what some adults are wearing.

[phrenzy]

49. Was this ever NOT the case?

Can somebody point me to a point in time where parents / elders didn't say this *exact* same thing about "the children"? This fight has been going on since the birth of 'teen culture' in the 50s. The world hasn't ended yet.

Styles come and go.

Also, my guess is, it isn't so cool to "be like Britney" these days.

[roody]

54. Agree. But isn't this the first time that

the focus is the low pelvic area and the buttocks? Where is there to go from here?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. Gee.

If "kid these days" started running around naked, then the next generation wouldn't have anything to complain about when their kids got older.

:rofl:

[SquireJons]

50. Sex Sells... all by itself.

...in a related story, Adam invents cloths for Eve just so he can take them off of her (what a perv). Story at 11; see your Bible for local listings.

Really! Girls want to be desirable? I had no idea. Next thing you know, they'll be telling us that boys want to be tough. Where do they get these crazy ideas? Oh, that's right... the media. Without images of girls being sexy and boys being manly, we'd all be at the soda fountain, wearing our oxfords and cardigan vests. Probably planning our latest volunteer efforts to help the homeless.

But in fact, girls and boys the world over seem to come up with the same compulsions, even if they're not exposed to US media. Goes to show just how pernicious our media really is. Even aboriginal girls want to be seen as attractive women. Have you seen what their not wearing these days?

The thing is, wholesome images outnumber sexualized ones probably 10 to 1, but nobody notices. That's because we just don't care about a regular cute 10 year old girl who looks like she's 10. We only notice the ones that are being sexy. Girls notice it, because that's what they want to be. Boys notice it, because it's exciting to them. Women notice because it reminds them that they're time is passing before their eyes, and men notice because they're big, fat, hypocritical pervs.

But don't say that it's not natural, and don't blame it on the media.

[Morgana LaFey]

64. It's inappropriate for 9 year olds to want to be "desirable"

Where do they get these crazy ideas? Oh, that's right... the media.

And that is exactly the point, and the complaint.

And it's NOT natural. I know because I was once a 9 year old myself, in the days when we were not being prematurely sexualized as children.

And, if you're willing, or just curious, here's an excellent exploration of WHY it's inappropriate, and psychologically damaging (a 4-page excerpt on Amazon -- read all 4 pages):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0609805304/ref=sib_fs_top/105-7769261-0103624?ie=UTF8&p=S00M&checkSum=A2hQvwtmWT9EnxX4S4eSTMCFYzpftAHRVwTxDD9Nit4%3D#reader-link

[gollygee]

55. You can get child-appropriate clothes for girls, but they cost more

If you buy clothes from Target, they are more mature than clothes from Gymboree, but they cost a lot less too. And second-hand shops have mainly clothes from Target, Kmart, Walmart, etc. I spend more and shop around to find stuff that isn't too mature.

I was out with my brother this past weekend and one of the things we did while we were in town was to look for a swimsuit for my 8-year-old niece (her old one accidentally got thrown out or something). We went to three stores before we found a swimsuit that was in the right size for an 8-year-old and was appropriate for an 8-year-old girl.

My daughter is 4 and it isn't quite as bad yet, but she's in size 6X now, and there's a huge jump in the maturity level of the clothes at size 7. So I'm a bit worried about what I'll find for her this summer.

And to tell the truth, I'm not *that* picky. I wore halter tops when I was her age in the 70s, and I don't have a problem with little girls wearing halter tops. It's the style of the clothes - some are obviously made for little girls, and some are obviously made to look sexy. It can be as simple as a plain pair of shorts, and another identical pair of shorts except for the addition of the word "hottie" across the ass.

[JackDragna]

66. America just can't get it right when it comes to sexuality.

We're either fanatic Puritan repressives on one hand, making a huge deal out of homosexuality, sex outside of marriage and the frigging Super Bowl halftime show. On the other hand, much of our public sexuality is about as subtle as a punch in the face. I am constantly amazed how easygoing and natural the sexuality of many Western European cultures seems compared to our own. They handle it like adults and manage to do fairly well bringing up well-adjusted children. Here, we just seem to ruin everything we touch and cause more problems for ourselves, like with how we over-sexualize our children.

[knitter4democracy]

70. My 6 y.o. told me yesterday that she needs to lose weight.

We had a fight that then evolved into a long talk about it. She started by saying she wasn't going to eat any more of her Valentine's candy, and when I asked why she started hedging and finally told me that she was on a diet. I don't know if she picked that up from me and Hubby (we just started on a diet) or from the other girls at school, but I find it rather disturbing. We talked about how she's actually underweight for her height already and shouldn't try to lose weight but just be healthy and eat healthily instead.

Don't get me started on the slutty clothes! I can't shop at Target for her clothes anymore, and I was very glad she was in a school uniform this year. Even if we switch to the public school next year, I'm sticking to uniform skirts and jumpers (longer, and the skirts have built-in shorts for coverage on the playground).

[redqueen]

78. My nine year old said something simliar to her sister...

lucky for me, her sister is a rat. :)

[NashVegas]

134. This Is Not New

Seriously. As a (rail thin) first grader, I walked into our local corner general store and asked for a Diet Pepsi. The gentlemen at the counter had a good laugh.

That was over 35 years ago.


Although I do decry much of the 'slutty' clothes, again: remember tube tops and hip huggers? That was over 30 years ago, too.

[knitter4democracy]

137. My mom didn't dress me in much of that.

We have pictures of one top and shorts. Most of the time, I was more covered up. I try to be careful with my daughter, who is amazingly social and constantly trying to make everyone in her school her friend. I worry that she will think that dressing a certain way will get her the attention she craves and then not know how to handle any consequences.

[revkat]

79. mother of 3 here

I have three daughters 12, 15, and 19. Styles come and go, but we have never been forced to buy "slutty" clothing because nothing else was available. Sometimes it has been harder than others to find things we could agree on, but they are there, and they are there in all price ranges. Everyone in my house knows that butt cracks should be covered even though they wear lower cut jeans. (It was a relief when shirts got longer a year or so ago)

It does seem to me that parents have a lot of control over how much pop culture comes into your home (and both my husband and I work full time). That said, one of the skills of parenting is learning which fights to tackle and when to compromise. I typically go with not buying into every trend, wearing age appropriate clothing, but being "close enough" to the trend to not stick out. It's worked for us. It helps that our family and friends aren't clothes conscious and the kids have felt enough a part of that community to not ask for shirts with risque sayings or "sexy" underwear.

[HockeyMom]

80. At 10 years old in 1958

I was 5'1", 105 lbs, had already gotten my period, and had been wearing a bra for about two years. Dress in little girl clothes? Impossible for my size and body shape, even back then.

When my parents sent me to a Catholic Girls Camp that summer, the Nuns put me in a dorm with the young teenagers (13-14 year olds) because I was too "mature" for my own age group. Yes, physically I may have been comparable to a young teenager, but mentally I wasn't. Let's just say it was a horrible experience for me.

Yes, as a preteen I did have to wear "adult" clothing. By the time I reached HS age the mini skirt was well into vogue. Read my previous post. I fully went with the times and my Mom cooperated with this.

On the other side of the spectrum, I still have to dress for my size. How many "mature" clothes are there for a size 0 or size 1? That is what I am now.

[Morgana LaFey]

84. We're not talking about adult clothing bu adult RATED clothing

in a manner of speaking. You may have developed early, but I'll bet you weren't wearing Brittany Spears outfits back then.

And we're not even talking about mini-skirts. We're talking about SEXUALLY INAPPROPRIATE dress for little girls who shouldn't be thinking about looking "sexy" if they even know what the term means.

[ryanmuegge]

86. As if THAT organization has any credibility anyway...

I love how they publish obvious shit like this and then call it "science." Please tell me no taxpayer money went into this.

[mzmolly]

87. Oh my not tax dollars?!

As the mother of a young daughter, I'm hope a portion of my "taxes" are being spent in this manner. And why doesn't 'THAT' organization have any credibility?

:hi:

[ryanmuegge]

105. RE: Oh my not tax dollars?!

Point being that I figure research grants are better used on alternative energy research or something along those lines, rather than money for pseudoscientists to tell us what we already know. At my university, I've seen a lot of stupid, pointless shit (studies about interpersonal attraction, for example) get federal grant money.

We already know that young girls are increasingly sexualized. Everybody knows that.

[mzmolly]

114. But what are people doing about what they know?

Without specific data to back up the assertions of parents, people aren't taken seriously.

[SoCalDem]

88. Check out how the rest of the world dresses their school kids..

This is from ENO's website, and these are from 2005..but there are pics too , from 2006..

Nice program too :)

http://www.joensuu.fi/eno/treephotos2005.htm

[mzmolly]

91. "What Parents Can Do"

http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/sexualizationpar.html

[noamnety]

93. Two related polls from the lounge

For the men: How old were you when you started receiving adult female sexual attention? Meaning honking/hollering as they drove past, or sexual comments, rude gestures, propositions, stuff along those lines?

current results
preteen (2 votes, 7%)
13-15 (7 votes, 24%)
16-18 (9 votes, 31%)
adult (5 votes, 17%)
I've managed to scare them off with my death-ray vision (1 votes, 3%)
other (5 votes, 17%)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6214423

--------------------------------------------------------

same question for the women:

current results
preteen (43 votes, 40%)
13-15 (46 votes, 43%)
16-18 (13 votes, 12%)
adult (3 votes, 3%)
I've managed to scare them off with my death-ray vision (1 votes, 1%) Vote
other (2 votes, 2%)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6213376#6216036

[Frank Cannon]

112. Fascinating

[Raine]

94. So what

as long as there is money to be made what difference does it make. :sarcasm: Seems to be the American way anymore, money comes over morals or decency. :-( It really is sad, childhood is usually the happiest time of anyone's life before there are all these conflicts etc. Now it is ruined for American kids by making them become adults too soon just so they and their parents can be sold garbage. :mad:

[smalll]

96. And meanwhile, their male peers are being transformed into murderous bastards (from CNN):

Teen 'sport killings' of homeless on the rise
POSTED: 7:55 p.m. EST, February 20, 2007

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/19/homeless.attacks/index.html?eref=rss_latest

All Nathan Moore says he wanted to do was smoke pot and get drunk with his friends. Killing Rex Baum was never part of the plan that day in 2004.

"It all started off as a game," Moore said. The 15-year-old and his friends were taunting the homeless man -- throwing sticks and leaves -- after having a couple of beers with him. No big deal, Moore says, but he's sorry for what came next. It was a mistake, he said, a sudden primal surge that made him and his friends Luis Oyola, 16, and 17-year-old Andrew Ihrcke begin punching and kicking Baum.

"Luis says 'I'm gonna go hit him,' We're all laughing, thought he was joking around,'" but he wasn't, Moore concedes. "We just all started hitting him." They hurled anything they could find -- rocks, bricks, even Baum's barbecue grill -- and pounded the 49-year-old with a pipe and with the baseball bat he kept at his campsite for protection.

Ihrcke smeared his own feces on Baum's face before cutting him with a knife "to see if he was alive," Moore said. After destroying Baum's camp, the boys left the homeless man -- head wedged in his own grill -- under a piece of plastic where they hoped the "animals would eat" him. Then, Moore says, they took off to grab a bite at McDonald's. Baum's murder was indicative of a disturbing trend...

So when are the "gamer"-types going to show up to tell us that 11-year-old girls dressed like sluts and 15-year-old boys murdering homeless men for fun is nothing new, they're age-old rites of passage, and don't you dare blame TV/music/video games, etc. etc.!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. Um, it's nothing new.

Notice the the levels are "the highest they've been in the last ten years."

Meaning the same thing was going on ten years ago. And ten years before that. And all the way back to the beginning.

This is just more anti-youth media hysteria. Not that anti-youth media hysteria is anything new either. Twenty years ago it was all these D&D players running around committing human sacrifice and listening to Judas Priest records. And 50 years ago it was all those teenage sluts dressing up in skimpy outfits and listening to that negro music.

Same shit, different decade.

[Odin2005]

123. Yep, this youth-bashing shit is really annoying.

The perception of this being so terrible is called the "conceit of the present," the exaggeration of recent things compared to less recent things.

I agree, Same Shit, Different Decade.

[keroro gunsou]

130. hey!

sir, i object! my gamer buddies and i always liked classical music, especially for games... set the mood nicely. :D

[keroro gunsou]

129. gamer here!

yes it is something new, though i'd attribute it to a serious lack of HOME TRAINING, meaning the parents doing their jobs.

out of all the games i've played, and it's been inferred by my friends that i've played more games than a normal human has a right to have played, none of them ever encouraged that sort of behavior. never mind the fact i've got a sense of impulse control where matters of violence are concerned... cookies is another matter.... but i digress.

anyone that thinks killing a person is cool or does it for the rush, all i can say is no game will ever hold their interest and they've got bigger problems than what games they play.

hell, when i'm feeling somewhat murderous, usually around the holidays, i prefer quantity over quality in my kills.... *hides a copy of GTA:VC under his bed and whistles innocently* :evilgrin:

[ikojo]

97. Ever been to a Libby Lu (I think that's the name of

the store). It's geared toward little girls under ten and they get all dolled up. During the spring and summer there will always be a group of girls at the store doing a dance routine.

I'd hate to raise a girl in this culture. It's nearly impossible to find modest clothes for pre teen girls.

[smb5850]

109. This is a prime example of parental over reaction

The idea that girls and young women in our society are over sexualized and falling "victim" to market, peer or societal pressures is an almost constant theme in many societies throughout history. I am not saying that we are not in a particularly overtly sexual period in fashion and actions but to suggest that this anything out of the norm of societal patterns is not credible. As far as the study goes of course they are going to find harm in this behavior because the psychologist quoted already stated she "knows" it is doing harm. I guess scientific objectivity ends at the doorstep to the home. As far as the children losing their innocents it is clear that not many hear remember their own childhood and how from puberty onward sex and sexuality, regardless of what our parents said or did, played a huge role both positive and negative in our lives.

[Odin2005]

124. It's the typical lack of proper objectivity in the social sciences.

The notion of children being "innocent angels" is Victorian Age BS.

[NashVegas]

135. I Agree With You

As I've pointed out elsewhere: I was asking for Diet Pepsi as a 6 year old, at the end of the '60s, and wearing tube tops when they were in fashion.

I think there's a huge issue with girls' clothing though; it's natural for a mentally & emotionally healthy girl to want to wear "pretty thangs."

The trouble is, we give them few appropriate settings to wear them, far too few in comparison with supply and demand. A silk cammy is inappropriate at a rock concert where it's going to get beer spilled all over it, but what other opportunities does a girl get to wear one, especially since dating has become so casual?

[bleedingheart]

113. Well this parent doesn't participate in this nonsense

and a lot of other parents don't either.

My daughter likes bling...all kids do and even adults...she loves dress up and wearing jewelry...however all in good fun.

I dress her like the child she is. I could buy the other crap but I don't. There are a lot of stores that sell age appropriate clothing. So if you can't find it at Macy's ..you might find something at Target.

My daughter plays with those goofy pet shop pets, her american girl doll, and barbies...along with a lovely doll house...

Now she has friends whose mothers have little to no sense...but I have made it clear we won't be buying any of that crap...

[kimmerspixelated]

140. I kinda agree with you but one thing

I absolutely hate are those damned BRATZ DOLLS! Some of them have toned down a bit, but let's face it, most of them look like hookers! Great role models,huh? My girl was given one as a gift. It's rude to say no, so you deal, still-I wish they weren't so popular.

[Arugula Latte]

141. I'm with ya on the Bratz.

My daughter has wanted those for awhile (she's almost 7). I've told her No. But, why, Mama? Well ... because I don't want you to aspire to look like a prostitute, I guess! No, I've actually told her something like: Well, those dolls try to make it seem like a good thing for little girls to grow up too quickly, and I don't like that. She'll come back with something like: Well, I don't want that Mama. I just want the doll.