Vietnam veterans plan to protect memorial during coming anti-Iraq war protest

[sabra]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/22/america/NA-GEN-US-Protesters-The-Wall.php

Vietnam veterans plan to protect memorial during coming anti-Iraq war protest

WASHINGTON: Iraq war protesters are planning to converge on Washington next month, and several organizations, including the POW-MIA group Rolling Thunder, are banding together to protect sacred ground for Vietnam War veterans.

The March 17 rally against the war, organizers say, is to get under way in a grassy park near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, known as the wall.

Two veterans' groups said Wednesday they fear protesters may deface the memorial, a claim dismissed by leaders of the demonstrating groups.

"We're going there to protect our memorial and show support for our troops," said Artie Muller, founder and executive director of Rolling Thunder. His group comprises thousands of motorcycle riders, mostly veterans of the Vietnam War, who converge on Washington for a rally every Memorial Day, the last weekend in May.

...

Richard Becker, a spokesman for the coming rally, said the organizations spreading the anti-war message have no intention of desecrating the black granite memorial wall. "I think it's the spreading of myths, and that's a polite way of putting it," Becker said.

[PDJane]

1. This is the same group

Who threatened Sheehan, I believe.

[Monkeyman]

2. Yep but we will be there too

Mr' Muller is going to be backed down

[saigon68]

12. THIS FUCKER IS A BUSH BOT= ARTIE MULLER

Here is a list of orgs who supported the CHIMPANZEE in 2004 election

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/cands/natendorse4.html

Looking to the General Election
Bush
O R G A N I Z A T I O N S
National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund (NRA-PVF) --10/13/04
Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) --09/10/04
Uniformed Firefighters Association of Greater New York --09/01/04
National Faith-Based Initiative Coalition --08/20/04
Rolling Thunder, Inc. National --campaign announced 05/27/04 (Artie Muller, President; endorsement made at the group's business meeting in March)
National Right to Life PAC --02/02/04

ARTIE MULLER attacked Kerry and leads a group of idiots who still believe we could have won in Nam if we had Nuked them

This ASSHOLE used to run around with Dick 5 deferrments Cheney and claim to be a "REAL PATRIOTIC VET"

He is scum

AND FROM THE CROTCH OF AMERICA

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1203631/posts


To: Jim Robinson

Rolling Thunder President Artie Muller Endorses President Bush.

Muller:

“We are grateful for the President’s leadership in honoring our nation’s commitment to veterans.

We appreciate his leadership in the War on Terror and in protecting our homeland against those who threaten our freedoms and way of life.

We will put our manpower and resources to work to ensure four more years of our President Bush's leadership.

… This is our way of thanking this President for his commitment to increasing access to housing and health care services for all veterans, reducing the disability claims backlog and overseeing the largest expansion of our national cemetery system since the Civil War.

("Rolling Thunder Endorses President George W. Bush," 5/27/04)

14 posted on 08/31/2004 12:42:23 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A REPUBLIC, IF YOU CAN KEEP IT...)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies >

[LeftHander]

47. Rove...

*ring ring*

Hi.

Rove: Hello, Rolling Thunder?

Yes.

This is Karl Rove from the WHite House. We have "reliable" intel that those unamerican liberals are going to despoil the wall during a war protest. We need your help to guard it. Can you do this for us?

Certainly.

Good let me know what your "expenses" are. We'll make sure we compensate you.

Oh and send out some press releases that you're going to be there protecting the memorial from damage.

Will do.

Thanks.

*click*

Rove: hehehe

[Zorra]

49. Knowing Rove, he'll send a bunch of freepers to deface the Memorial, too.

A confrontation between vets and freepers posing as *dirty librul protesters* would make great headlines for the fascist warmongers.

[Kutjara]

3. What a crock.

Maybe while they're at it, these Vets can protect all the babies in DC from being raped by the protestors. Or perhaps they can defend everyone's home from being looted by antiwar activists.

Too bad noone can protect the Memorial from being used as a Repug political tool.

[MikeNearMcChord]

4. I hate to break the news to Mr. Muller

But the Vietnam Veterans Memorial itself is a anti-war symbol. IIRC H. Ross Perot opposed the design and wanted the statue of the three soldiers, to offset what he thought was an anti-war symbol.

[hobbit709]

5. Give me a break

While I can think of many things I would want to deface to protest the war, a memorial to veterans would be about the last thing I would even consider. RNC HQ, Halliburton offices, K Street lobbyist firms would be much higher on my list if I was crazy enough to do something stupid.

[Ian David]

6. Rolling Thunder has been fighting the likes of Fred Phelps for too long.

They've apparently confused him with the anti-war movement.

Veterans for Peace should offer to help Rolling Thunder protect the monument.

[Monkeyman]

8. VFP will make the offer But that nut case Muller will refuse

Muller is all about the spot light. He is a punk. We confronted him before he back down

[niyad]

14. it's the patriot guard riders who protect the vets' funerals, isn't it?

[Ian David]

17. I thought Rolling Thunder did, too. n/t

[carla]

39. I saw these guys in NYC

more than 15 years ago, they were doing good work for the POW-MIA organizations by organizing a cross-country motorcycle tour. It seems they are quite off track currently.
Anyway, isn't Rolling Thunder the name of a bombing campaign? I always wondered how noble they actually were, notwithstanding the good work they did/do to maintain public awareness for soldiers MIA.
Peace to all those who will attend the anti-war rallies.

[Mojorabbit]

7. You know

for some reason this makes me furious.

[Monkeyman]

9. This Garbage started when Fox Noise said the Anti -War people

Trashed the Wall in the last march. No one touched the Wall

[Ian David]

10. Photoshop project if anyone's interested.

You know that painting they sell at the mall of the veteran who's at the Vietnam War Memorial, and he presses his hand against the stone, and the ghosts of his dead buddies are reflected back placing their hands against his?

How about photoshopping it to create something like this:

George W. Bush is visiting The Vietnam War Memorial, and he solemnly places his hands against the stone. Inside, the ghosts of dead Vietnam vets are giving him the finger, turning their backs to him, and one is mooning him.

[Lost-in-FL]

11. Can't get anymore ridiculous than that.

"...they fear protesters may deface the memorial" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I don't mean to be like this but this is laughable. I need a bigger word for this one... maybe something like LUDICROUS. I need help here... this is the stupidest thing I have seen from any Republican besides the "VIVA BUSH" bumper stickers. How can someone have this kind of logic??

[PDJane]

13. Outrageous?

preposterous? nonsensical? assinine? farcical? absurd? ........I need a thesaurus, I'm running out of words.........risible? outlandish? unreasonable? bizarre? nonsensical?

[niyad]

15. I know several members of one of the rolling thunder chapters, and none of them is a bushbot. I am

truly disappointed to learn this about the organization.

[Monkeyman]

19. hold on not all are like Muller

They walk and talk like we do. Like I said before Muller is a spotlight hug. Not all are vets. I sent a email to a few vets who want to confront him about his backing of Bush. John Hurly who ran Veterans for Kerry I know would love to talk to him.

[DemoTex]

16. #"Rolling Thunder" with DD214s with RVN service divided by #total Rolling Thunder =

Very small fraction. Beware Rolling Thunder as spokespersons for the Viet Vet. Lotsa wannabees there. Too bad they were not with us .. they would not be so loud today. Know what I mean, Vern?

On edit: Few of them know what the Rolling Thunder campaigns were, much less the intricacies and differences involved in or between Dewey Canyon I, II, Lam Son 719, Barrel Roll, Market Time, Sandy/Misty, FastFac/Bird-Dog, ARDF, F105/A-4, shot-out/shot-splash, "just a fuckin' thing", etc.. Sorry to bear the bad news.

[saigon68]

18. YOU GOT IT Capt Mac !!!!

Lotsa Wannabees :-) :-)

[Monkeyman]

20. HooYa Brother

[DemoTex]

23. See the edit note, Bros

I was writing the edit when you guys posted. Same vain, though.

Mac

[Monkeyman]

27. We are Brother

VVAW with John shhhh

[KittyWampus]

38. What does "Rolling Thunder" mean?

[saigon68]

42. Rolling Thunder was the bombing campaign agaist NORTH VIET-NAM

That was how most of the POWs were shot down over North Viet-Nam.

McCain participated in that Operation. It was active from 65-68. When Lyndon Johnsom (micromanaging the War) decided to quit bombing NVN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder

Later when the B-52s carpet bombed Hanoi, we had Operation Linebacker I and Linebacker II in 1972

[walk softly]

21. I was proud to be there on Jan 28th

In fact, I think most people will stay away from the wall because of this "pre warning". That's sad because after the last peace rally in January, my 21 year old granddaughter got me settled at Union Station and then took a train back to the "Wall". It had been six years since we first went there and was introduced to our friends. Bill and Suds, best friends in their early twenties, today they're old enough to be her grandpa,they died just a few months apart in Nam. Meg went back to sit with them awhile. How proud I am to see my grandchildren responsible enough to serve their country when called, and patriotic enough to raise their voices to rally for peace.

[struggle4progress]

22. Last time I was at the Memorial, I saw a lot of old hippies cryin

[DemoTex]

29. Nothin' wrong with that, is there?

I've spent many a tear there. While you were there with the "old hippies", did you cry too? It's contagious. If you did not, I worry about you.

Mac

[struggle4progress]

30. Yeah, my eyes got wet. Fuckin war hurt a lotta people.

[DemoTex]

32. Everybody cries there. At least inwardly.

It is the symbol of the epitome of the worst this country could ever do to its citizens .. well, it was a symbol of that. We did not learn and we let it happen to us again.

Mac

[ohio2007]

24. A St. Patricks Day anti war ralley ?

Do they want to rain on the "fighting Irish's" parade ?

Seems like an odd day to pick ( a fight ).
They should go with another date imo unless St. Patricks Day isn't as big a day as it is in other cities.

March 17th, St. Patricks Day
nope
They picked a bad day folks....unless they are looking for a fight. jmo

[dflprincess]

26. I pointed this out in another thread that St. Patrick's Day parades

took off in this country in middle to late 1800s. At the time they were used by the Irish to show their political strength and protest the discrimination against the Irish (sort of a "we're here, get used to it" deal). A political protest on St. Patrick's is really more in keeping with tradition than what modern St. Patrick's Day celebrations have become.

[ohio2007]

40. St. Patricks Day is mid lent Madri Gras day

Everybody wants to be Irish on that day. Being a Saturday this year should get more people to downtown parades.
It's tough WORKING downtown on St. Pats Day.
How are the crowds in DC that day ?
Are they going to be a photo op back drop?

[tabasco]

25. I was sobbing for all the wasted lives when I walked out of that Memorial.

I felt like I was walking out of a grave. All those names. FOR WHAT??

How can these people be so stupid!? Do they think we are not veterans ourselves?

This is a cheap and scurrilous publicity stunt, not much better than the Purple Heart bandaids.

[vietnam_war_vet]

34. Sad reality: Numerous Vietnam War American KIAs aren't on the Wall

Just as the current administration is playing fast and loose with the number of American KIAs and injured in the Iraqi and Afghani theaters, so did LBJ, McNamara, Nixon, et al, with the number of American KIAs from the Vietnam War.

How do I know this? Several ways. In 1987, I went to the wall to pay my respects to several high school classmates who I knew had died in that war, plus to find the names of two friends who I saw killed by a enemy incoming round while we were on an interdiction mission along the Ho Chi Minh trail in Laos.

My two friends names were not on the wall. I even had a park ranger assist me with my search, checking a directory....nope, my two friends are not on the Wall.

As years passed, I eventually came across some hard documentation as to why my two friends -- and many others -- were not included in the 58,000 plus American KIAs listed on the Wall.

In former defense secretary Robert S. McNamara's 1995 book ("In Retrospect"), he discussed how the Dept. of Defense used some very "creative" means to keep the Vietnam War American KIA total down.

I also found similar information within the massive "Pentagon Papers" that Dr. Daniel Ellsberg leaked for public consumption.

In general, if an American KIA died in the Vietnam War, but not within the borders of Vietnam, chances are they are were not included in the Dept. of Defense's official American KIA list for that war...meaning American KIAs who died in Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and even southern China (our Ho Chi Minh trail interdiction missions followed that supply trail into southern China). It was all the same war.

And then in 1997, I had a chance to associate with and get to know a Vietnam War F-4 Navy pilot in a Vietnam Veterans of America chapter. He told me that since his aircraft carrier was always located outside of the nautical 12 mile barrier/limit, that his pilot friends who died on missions over Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia also were not listed on the Wall. He had gone there and found out -- just like I had in 1987.

Bottom line: the "official" 58,000 plus total American Vietnam War KIAs that the Dept. of Defense compiled....and those were the names used for the Wall....should be a helluva lot more.

You can do your own research. For starters - McNamara's 1995 "In Retrospect" book and the "Pentagon Papers" should enlighten you as they did me. -- Michael

[WePurrsevere]

36. For those who haven't been to the Wall & would like to know if someone is on it...

this site seems to have fairly user friendly search engine that you can use to see if they are:
http://thewall-usa.com/index.asp#search

Too many are there (and not there)... that should never have been over there in the first place and what's really sad is that the lessons we should have learned back then were not and now another memorial will needed in the future for all those who have served, been wounded (physically and emotionally) and died needlessly for BushCo's war for money, power and revenge. :(

[tabasco]

37. Thanks Mike, I'll check it out.

I don't doubt the numbers are much higher.

[saigon68]

43. Here is a Link to the "Virtual Wall" --Very Moving

http://www.vvmf.org/index.cfm?SectionID=1

[tabasco]

45. Thanks Saigon68 !

Thanks for your service in that hell hole. I'm glad you made it back.

[saigon68]

46. Still raising hell

Miami 1972 Nixon's convention

[MadMaddie]

28. I have to say to our DU Vietnam Vets and all other Vets

I am proud to be in this forum and to hear your expierences. I am proud of each and every one our Vets on DU for their service to our Great Country

I am proud that you are willing to point out the wanna be's and the bushbots...

A big Kick to ya...




:kick:

[Zenlitened]

44. I'd like to echo that. Well said.

:patriot: to all the people who've served and see the world today with open eyes, open hearts, open minds.


        :dem:

[uppityperson]

31. On 1 hand, give me a f*ing break. On the other, hope people are there guarding it.

Guarding it against not the anti-Iraq occupation protesters, but against those pretenders, those that might do something so stupid and try to blame it on the anti-war people. As if people wanting to support the troops by bringing them home would desecrate The Wall.

[Karenina]

48. You must be PSYCHIC!!!

That was exactly my thought upon clicking on this thread.

[noel adamson]

33. I checked out their message board a few days ago at...

...http://usvetdsp.com/eagle and posted some comments. They are, no surprise, total dunderheads. When I said I had gone to Vietnam 3 times in that war these protectors of the memories of dead veterans were all over me, smearing me like other Vietnam veterans such as Kerry, Max Clellan and John Murtha have been...I would have felt honored for the smears since they are the last defense of those with losing, or no, arguments but they are such resentful dunderheads that it would be especially shameful to take satisfaction there. You might try and talk some sense into them. I tried to point out that Iraq soldiers are getting the blame for torture and all sorts of other evil crap that this administration, which they are so loyal to, has ordered but they are very thick headed. They did, surprisingly, allow me to post my comments though so if you do post there I suggest a respectfully therapeutic approach. I would further note that, if their message board is any indication, they don't have a very large number for a national level protest and are likely to come off as such a small band of nut cases that even Fox "news" will be unable to spin it. Have sympathy, they are seriously handicapped.

[Historic NY]

35. Last I knew the U.S. Park Police is responsible................

How did this all of a sudden become such a front burner item when the last big march nothing happened. The memorial belongs to the American People, not just rolling ditto heads.

[carla]

41. Ask Karl

Rove.