Backlash leads to pullback on Cho video

[zippy890]

Source: AP

NEW YORK - With a backlash developing against the media for airing sickening pictures from Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-Hui, Fox News Channel said Thursday it would stop and other networks said they would severely limit their use.

NBC News was the recipient Wednesday of Cho's package of rambling, hate-filled video and written messages, with several pictures of him posing with a gun. Contents began airing on "Nightly News," and its rivals quickly used them, too.

Family members of victims canceled plans to appear on NBC's "Today" show Thursday because they "were very upset" with the network for showing the pictures, "Today" host Meredith Vieira said.

...

It has value as breaking news," said ABC News spokesman Jeffrey Schneider, "but then becomes practically pornographic as it is just repeated ad nauseam."


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_en_tv/virginia_tech_nbc

---

'bout time

[acmavm]

1. Jeffrey's only saying that because people are pissed. Otherwise

they'd be showing that shit twice an hour for a month.

[jus_the_facts]

2. I have to say this again....this makes the IMUS scandal look TAME by comparison. n/t

[zippy890]

7. good point - I have to agree n/t

[The Count]

3. It even made the cover of the NYT to my surprise!

[ronnykmarshall]

Good!

They should have waited months later .... maybe years before releasing this.

[saigon68]

12. TOO LATE MR. CHO has his own Pages at Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cho_Seung-hui

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Jeeeze ..... that was fast

Unbelievable ......... (shaking head)

[saigon68]

37. Yes the NET is Very Up to Date

LOL

[saigon68]

42. Apparently some vandals are trying to deface his memorial

Editing of this article by unregistered or newly registered users is currently disabled because the subject of this article has been the target of malicious edits. If you are prevented from editing this article, and you wish to make a change, please discuss changes on the talk page, request unprotection, log in, or create an account.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cho_Seung-hui




* The original and ONLY copy of this photo was given away by the creator (depicted in the picture), therefore releasing all the rights of the creator.
* The image is of inferior quality to the original (Copies made will be inferior as well)
* There is no other way to obtain this photo other than through NBC and NBC released the videos and pictures to the public worldwide through television.
* This provides a photo of Cho Seung-hui and closes some gaps in the mystery between 7:15 am and 9:00 am EST of the Virginia Tech massacre.
* This photo also provides information on his demeanor before the shooting and semi-photos of the exact guns that he used.

[Dawgs]

4. What about the ratings?

Don't these families care about the networks? :sarcasm:

[Donnachaidh]

5. Fox trying to claim it has VALUES?

Oh please!!!! :rofl:

I'll bet the kid that O'Reilly said LIKED being snatched and violated for YEARS really agrees with this *sudden* outrage.

[pampango]

16. If, and it's a big IF, FOX is really the one network that said they

will stop airing it altogether, I have to give them some credit. (Ouch, that hurt!)

[Donnachaidh]

21. I don't give any of the yelpers credit -- Faux Sour Grapes

Any one of the other networks would have had that tape on in a NY second. And they ALL are still going on with interviews and *in-depth* stuff about Cho.

They are ALL full of horse manure.

[ElizabethDC]

6. Yeah, no kidding

I don't have a problem with them making the stuff public, but the repeated airing of the videos and the pictures is incredibly disturbing.

[silverojo]

33. "Repeated airing of the videos?"

They only aired very short CLIPS, none of which even contained profanity. The entire videos were never shown. All we hear is brain-dead talking heads blathering on 24/7, pretending they have a clue as to why Cho did this.

Oh, yeah, we also hear the university and the police covering their sorry behinds. Meanwhile, our "hard-hitting" news media haven't even begun to investigate the important questions of why Cho's parents didn't get help for him when he was underage, or why they didn't at least have the decency to send a message of condolence to their victims. (Hey, lots of people go to the hospital after a tragic incident...the DECENT people invite the news media to their hospital rooms, so they can talk about the ordeal.)

Stop and think: After 9/11, we were bombarded with video messages from Osama Bin Laden, who killed three THOUSAND people. Why is it OK to show THAT mass murderer's bragging, but it's not OK to show Cho Seung-Hui's video?

[Flarney]

8. Too little too late, assholes. The damage is done. n/t

[katty]

9. they should be upset--the ratings whores up to the same tricks

[liberal N proud]

10. Every media outlet who showed it should be fined for showing violent content

They were inciting copy cat killers and they violated our living rooms with violence that our children had to watch.

But damn if a boob was exposed they would be all over that with fines.

[tavalon]

48. While I don't like that they all showed it

However, I have to say that they only "violated" your living room if you chose to turn on the TV and your children were most assuredly not forced to watch. Geez, turn the damn TV off.

[Straight Shooter]

11. I'm going to stick my neck out and say kudos to Fox for stopping it completely.

Shame on all the networks for granting Cho his posthumous wish to shock even more people.

"Value as breaking news." FU, Schneider. You were just wanting to shock and awe your viewers.

[Bleys]

13. Of course it has value as news...

Just because an event is awful and tragic (and this is) doesn't mean it should be stricken from the history books. Come on people, don't let emotion get in the way of common sense. We have a duty to accurately document our history, and this unfortunate and terrible event is part of that history, like it or not.

I'm in agreement with Dave Winer on this one: http://www.scripting.com/stories/2007/04/18/vloggingComesToMassMurder.html and http://www.scripting.com/stories/2007/04/19/chotvDay2.html

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Documenting for history is different from replaying the images repeatedly isn't

Documenting history means saving and cataloging the images and showing them with proper context. Using them in continous loops, especially when only images where Cho looks menacing are the ones repeated, isn't documenting history, that's molding it.

[zippy890]

17. good response - I agree

the lack of that context is shameful

[Bleys]

22. Well...

I'm not arguing that they should be repeated ad nauseum. But they should be made available on MSNBC's network... public right to know and all that.

[silverojo]

34. Images are shown repeatedly for ANY news story!

What next, are you going to say they shouldn't have shown the buildings on fire during 9/11?

The sight of people dying, leaping out windows, etc., is a lot more violent and upsetting than Cho Seung-Hui trying to explain to the world why he did what he did.

[Gormy Cuss]

40. His mass murder is news. The existence of his videos is news. The videos themselves, not so much.

Even the execs at NBC argued about that point.

Video news media needs strong images, whether contextually they are the most important aspect or not. Consider the typical storm coverage. How many times do they loop the same shot of a swollen stream or a downed tree? The handful of images become the story. Sometimes they convey the magnitude of the event accurately, but sometimes it's either overblown or under reporting the range of the event.

It's not about whether Cho's images are too violent or upsetting compared to other horrific events, but since you mentioned it, the footage shown repeatedly of the planes hitting the WTC towers helped whip up the masses into anger and fear to the point where many bought into Bush's global war on terrorism theme rather than just limiting his military action to fighting back at the designated perpetrators, bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

[Straight Shooter]

19. They can report it without showing the film. n/t

[Bleys]

23. But that would be irresponsible reporting

Unless you think they should report on Iraq and Afghanistan but not actually show what's going on there? The media, in my opinion, has a duty to report the news with every means available to them.

[Straight Shooter]

25. Not necessarily true. I think the media is stooping to gratuitous violence.

I don't watch television, yet I'm quite well-informed as to what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, because I read a wide variety of news sources from Internet sites. I haven't viewed anything to do with Cho's self-serving video or photos, except the photo displayed on the home page of one of the sites. And yet I feel I have been very well informed as to what his attitude was toward his victims. He hated them and wanted them dead.

I really don't give a crap about mass murderers and their selfish melodramas, and would prefer that air time devoted to such people would be granted instead to focusing on the victims and their lives before they were brutally mowed down. We need to know what we have lost in the aftermath of such violence, and the consequences to the loved ones who now must deal with this tragedy.

And I forgot to mention, welcome to DU.

[Bleys]

28. Do you agree that...

... the videos/photos should be made available to the public? You write, "We need to know what we have lost in the aftermath of such violence" ... I think we also need to know how to prevent it. It's fairly clear that Cho was mentally disturbed. I think his writing, videos, etc. might give some valuable insight into his psyche that might help identify and prevent someone from doing something like this in the future.

Anyway, I do agree that the cable news channels should not show the pictures on a continuous loop (as maybe they did?). Once on NBC News should have been enough. Then I think they should have been made available online for public consumption.

The videos are newsworthy, and relevant.

Also, thanks... I've actually been around for years, but I lost my login ages ago and only recently rediscovered it. :)

[Straight Shooter]

29. Yes, we need to know how to prevent it.

But that's for professionals, not for a lot of armchair psychoanalysts to decipher. Just look at DU and all the myriad explanations for his behavior that have been offered. My take on it is that people will filter his behavior through their own personal experiences and their conclusions will be extremely subjective. It's very difficult for a layperson to remain detached and objective about mass murderers.

I just don't like gratuitous imagery, more so because I despise the so-called mainstream media which has veered far away from actual information and deep into the realm of infotainment, all in the quest for higher ratings.

Also, FWIW, I don't believe such behavior can be prevented. There will always be walking timebombs among the human population. The only way to prevent it, possibly, is compulsory monitoring of everybody's mental health. :(

[Bleys]

31. So you think...

.... that only government selected 'professionals' should have access to all the information? I don't agree with that, sorry. I'm very much in favor of a society that is completely open with its information.

I just don't like gratuitous imagery, more so because I despise the so-called mainstream media which has veered far away from actual information and deep into the realm of infotainment, all in the quest for higher ratings.

That's true. I still think they have a duty to report and show things that are news worthy, however uncomfortable. But not on a constant loop. Show it once, they put it online for people to view at their own discretion (that's what the Internet is here for). If you don't want to see it, turn off the TV or don't download it.

Also, FWIW, I don't believe such behavior can be prevented.

Not every time, but certainly the more we understand it, the better our chances of spotting it and dealing with it before the worst happens.

[Straight Shooter]

32. Bleys ...

I didn't say "government selected." Perhaps Cho's family could best decide who should perform a clinical study to determine the root of the violence. It would be a very long study, probably over the course of years.

We've become too timid about calling people out when we suspect violent tendences are simmering under the surface. And in fact, Cho was pinpointed, but not enough was done. Yet he bears responsibility, too. Apparently he didn't want to get well. What the hell do you do with people like that? :shrug:

We can go round and round about Cho and other mass murderers. There are no answers, only opinions.

[BluePatriot]

24. I (tentatively) agree

(they are Fox after all)

But seriously, the MSM is pretty out of touch showing that stuff. They just wanted to exploit it before YouTube and the Internet did. And you know what? I have higher standards for TV news than YouTube. Yes, I could find those images if I chose to on the Net, but there's just some content that should stay off of the TV.

edit: also, by NBC showing all that junk, Cho got his way, causing more pain, and proved a point about our media's values, no matter how ill he was...

[Straight Shooter]

26. You make a very valid point.

He caused more pain, not just to his victims' families, but to his own and to his native country. :(

[StefanX]

18. I found a video on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTi1itv6SYY

The guy sounds pretty pissed off about a lot of things.

[ArmchairMeme]

20. M$M

Now they also expect that the friends and families of the victims are willing to show up for their shows so that the media can ask probing questions to elicit tears from them. First they have accosted them with the Cho video and then they want to get further profit from the friends and families by again hurting them.
I think they are despicable. They should be aware that the viewing public is upset with them and their presentation. I chose to turn it off because past performance gave me a clue about how the media would treat this profit center.

[iverglas]

27. parallels with Montreal Dawson College killer striking (dark pix)

http://scienceblogs.com/transcript/2006/09/dawson_shootings_portrait_of_t.php




http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0906/1801_kimveer_gill4.html




http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/09/14/qc-dawsoninvestigation.html



Compare with Cho's posed self-portraits at MSNBC - click "launch":
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
(not "graphic", just disturbing in a generalized way)


and maybe take a look at "10 Myths about School Shootings"L
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438/
the study itself:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/NEWS/PDFs/061002_Safe_Schools.pdf


Sorry for straying a bit off topic, but I just looked at the Cho slide show at the MSNBC site and was really quite struck by the virtually identical contents.

[Henny Penny]

36. Interesting. Why do you think that is?

Are they copy cat cases?

[iverglas]

39. doesn't it almost look like that?

But it would seem unlikely that Cho saw the Gill material. It was all on his myspace page, which was taken down by myspace as soon as it was identified shortly after the shooting. Media outlets accessed it before it disappeared. I managed to do so as well, since myspace took down the main page but for a while it was still possible to access subpages if one played around.

The basic report of the Dawson event is here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/09/14/qc-dawsoninvestigation.html
Ultimately, several students shot in the head recovered, and one student died. Kimveer Gill was shot by police, who happened to be in the building at the time on a drug investigation.

The event was in September 2006. I imagine it got a little notice in the US media, being a school shooting and all, but not likely enough to have inspired someone like Cho. In Canada, it was a horrible echo of the Montreal Polytechnique shootings in 1989 when Marc Lépine killed 14 women engineering students and wounded as many more people, and killed himself. Until this week, believe it or not, I think Canada held the sad record for the highest number of people killed in this kind of event (leaving aside the event in Chechnya, which was different in nature).

But no, I doubt it was copycat. The two people/events do seem to share characteristics, though.

First, one expert opinion of people who do this is that they are deeply narcissistic. They see themselves as victims, but obviously they also know deep down that they are ineffectual and weak, and this undoubtedly feeds their anger. This would be reflected in all of the self-portrait photos, portraying the persona they have decided to adopt.

Second, in my opinion and I have no doubt some experts, a dynamic develops when people like that have firearms. The self-portraits are all of the individual with weapons, specifically their guns, creating the persona and giving it concrete, tangible expression. They create a feedback loop for/of themselves. Their feelings of victimization and fantasies of revenge are heightened, they spiral into the vortex and it all has to go somewhere -- eventually, the persona they want to see themselves as / have created for themselves has to do something, or that persona would just be as pointless and ineffectual as they are.

Kimveer Gill got his weapons legally. The semi-automatic rifle and the handgun he had are restricted weapons in Canada, available only to people with licences for them, which are available only to people who are members of approved shooting clubs, for sporting purposes. He did shoot regularly at a couple of Montreal ranges. He also spent long hours in his parents' basement, over several months, playing with them and posting pictures of himself with them at myspace.

It doesn't seem that Gill had a plan for mass murder when he bought the guns; in his case, I do think that the ongoing contact with and handling of them was a real factor in what he did - it all just had to go somewhere. Whether Cho had the plan to start with, I dunno. It was some time before he carried it out, if so. He didn't just go buy the guns and go out and shoot people, he too spent quite some time playing with them and incorporating them into his persona, and spiralling further into that vortex of victimization/revenge fantasies. Maybe that process was necessary before he actually could/did move on to action.

The factors involved are so parallel, though, that it's quite striking. And in the case of the guns, the use of them to kill is only the final similarity; they seem to have played a significant role, in both cases, in the process that led to that final outcome.

[Blue_Tires]

46. interesting

don't think i ever heard of that incident....

[saigon68]

49. Lots of angry young men on the loose

South Central LA is full of them, there are 300 + murders a year in an area 5 sq miles

The Marines like to recruit them for Iraq-Nam

[godai]

30. Be careful who you trust to censor what you see

While this video is tough to watch, I found it informative. Did you know that he used hollow point bullets? I thought these were illegal but apparently not. Did you know that he could speak English that well? So strange that he went year after year not speaking even though he could. I think this explains how he was able to get in VT in the first place.

I feel that the VT administration made a terrible mistake in delaying informing the students. One report has it that they were meeting to figure out how best to release the information about the murders in order to minimize the impact on the school's reputation. The VT professors tried desperately to get the police and administrations attention that Cho was a danger but nothing was done to remove him. Was it really not possible to do anything? Only a student was able to have him committed briefly but that also fell through.

Cho was mentally ill with little or no treatment for 10 years or more. More than 30 innocent students are dead because of many mistakes along the way. I hope the investigation will be real and thorough, and appropriate blame will be assessed, for the terrible mistake of assuming incorrectly that the killing was over after the first 2 deaths. I have faith in Gov. Kaine. Things seems to change, as far as an investigation, once he was on the scene.

I feel we need to be informed as much as possible, not only in this instance. We're insulated from the war by censorship and look what that has allowed. Within reason, I feel we need more information rather than less.

[saigon68]

38. appropriate blame will be assessed

The sole BLAME lies with CHO

Wait until thousands of PTSD cases show up at VA hospitals and are turned away and disrespected.

This little episode will be a "cake walk in the park" to foreshadow what's coming.

Look no farther than Tim McVeigh

[benEzra]

43. FYI, hollowpoint ammunition is legal in every state

and is used by pretty much all police departments, for liability reasons (limits overpenetration and ricochet); practically all civilian defensive ammunition is also hollowpoint, with the remainder being softpoint.

You may be thinking of armor piercing ammunition, which is indeed restricted by Federal law. AP ammunition is generally pointed, not hollowpoint, and is made of very hard materials so as to maintain its pointed shape on impact.

[benEzra]

44. Sidenote re: legality of hollowpoint ammunition

Did you know that he used hollow point bullets? I thought these were illegal but apparently not.

Just a sidenote, hollowpoint ammunition is legal in every state, and is used by pretty much all police departments for liability reasons (limits overpenetration and ricochet); practically all civilian defensive ammunition is also hollowpoint, with the remainder being softpoint.

You may be thinking of armor piercing ammunition, which is indeed restricted by Federal law. AP ammunition is generally pointed, not hollowpoint, and is made of very hard materials (steel, hardened bronze, tungsten) so as to maintain its pointed shape on impact.

[thinkbridge]

35. it was "pornographic" in the first place

they should never have aired this monster and had some consideration for victims, law enforcement, and the nature of the tragedy

profit motive, it seems, trumps all of the above

[Marie26]

41. OK

That's good, but the damage is already done. And they'd stop rotating the video anyway as they move onto the next big story. This is basically a cop-out to attempt to restore what's left of NBC's reputation.

[ends_dont_justify]

45. Funny. Democratic Underground will show pictures far longer than Fox news

"Becareful when you are fighting monsters that you do not become one; for how long does it take for a man to stare into the abyss before the abyss will stare back into him?"

[uppityperson]

47. What pictures where?