Student arrested for essay's imaginary violence

[deadparrot]

Source: CNN

CARY, Illinois (AP) -- A high school senior was arrested after writing that "it would be funny" to dream about opening fire in a building and having sex with the dead victims, authorities said.

Another passage in the essay advised his teacher at Cary-Grove High School: "don't be surprised on inspiring the first CG shooting," according to a criminal complaint filed this week.

Allen Lee, 18, faces two disorderly conduct charges over the creative-writing assignment, which he was given on Monday in English class at the northern Illinois school.

Students were told to "write whatever comes to your mind. Do not judge or censor what you are writing," according to a copy of the assignment.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/27/student.essay.arrest.ap/index.html?eref=yahoo

[Bjornsdotter]

1. Read the comment made by a fellow student

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=226x5562#5564


Cheers

[mikelgb]

2. 2 thoughts

1 the school definately over-reacted after the student explained the resoning and the assignment clearly stated that the students not censor their thoughts. There should be no charges. Disoderly conduct?! He followed directions and hurt nobody.

2 The student should have known better than to write such things in the wake of the hysteria over VT shootings. He should have known they would over react.

I was in high school during Columbine. A friend of mine used to wear a trenchcoat everyday but the day after the shootings, he stopped wearing it. My friends and I noticed and kinda jabbed him about it. But he was serious and nervous that school a official might remember he had worn it and keep a special eye on him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. You sound like you're blaming the victim.

Sorta sounds like "she should have known she was going to get raped after dressing up in such a short skirt."

[mikelgb]

5. Not at all

[Chovexani]

50. I was one of the "weird" kids in HS during Columbine

And this is just as ridiculous now as it was then.

Being a trenchcoat-wearing goth in April of '99 was not fun.

[ProudDad]

55. What part of Free Speech are you not conversant with?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


But, I guess in bush/clinton/bush's amerika, this is passe, dead and buried.

[Trillo]

4. It is a disturbing message the student wrote,

but given the instructions, and his "to dream" phrase, one has to wonder if he shouldn't be allowed to sue. There are plenty of violent metaphors shown on TV, especially in movies, but as well in books. Since he stated "to dream", it seems a clear reference to a sleep metaphor and not something he intended to act upon.

It's unreasonable to be arrested for doing what you're told to do in school.

[cigsandcoffee]

6. If he shot up the school the next day, and they'd done nothing...

...about those bizarre writings, then they'd be raked over the coals in a very ferocious way. I can see how the school was a bit caught between a rock and a hard place.

I blame the kid, really. He must be a real dope not to have thought writing about shooting people there would open an enormous can of worms. A little intelligent self-censorship would have saved everyone the trouble.

[Bjornsdotter]

8. Ahhh, there's the rub

They have already done nothing, note this quote from a student in the same class.

<<About six weeks ago, Emling said he gave a 10-minute speech in the same class describing what his life would be like as a “hit-man” and identified students he would shoot. He said he was not punished for that speech.>>

Emling was not suspended, arrested nor were his parents notified. Bit of a double standard there.

Don't kid yourself, the fact that the kid was Asian played a big part in this story.

Cheers

[cigsandcoffee]

12. Maybe it's that we're fresh off the worst school shooting in history.

To me, that's more likely than some kind of open racism against Asians. I suspect any kid who was dopey enough to write that in the near immediate wake of VT would find himself in hot water.

[Bjornsdotter]

25. It's both

....if the shooter at VT hadn't been Asian, it may not have gone this far.

However, Cary is a neighboring community and like my town it has a double standard. The longer the family has lived in the area, the less likely the kids are punished to the same degree as "new comers".

Most of the community is on the side of Allen Lee and not the teacher, nor the "good old boy" police department.

Cheers

[cigsandcoffee]

30. Who needs to take sides?

A kid was charged with disorderly conduct so that he could be given a psychiatric evaluation after writing creepy stuff about shooting his classmates. Given the realities of the dangers our schools face in this day and age, that seems fair enough to me. The kid must have been a real dope to think that writing about a school shooting wouldn't get him some unfriendly attention.

[Bjornsdotter]

33. Evaluation

....he could be recommended for a psych evaluation without being arrested. It's done a lot in the district.

This is a local story for me, there are nuances to this story that probably aren't noticed by others not from this area.

Cheers

[cigsandcoffee]

36. Being reccomended is one thing. The school probably wanted to be sure...

...that he'd be evaluated. Why take chances?

[LisaL]

37. The other student was before VT shooting.

[noel adamson]

10. fantasy and reality

<em>"I blame the kid, really. He must be a real dope not to have thought writing about shooting people there would open an enormous can of worms. A little intelligent self-censorship would have saved everyone the trouble."<em>

The only thing dopey about it was thinking he could be effective in challenging the idiocy of the right wing Idiocracy who's adherents cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality as shown not only by Republican support for the invasion of Iraq but support of most of the Democrats in the legislature as well. That is not to mention all of the other silly s**t that has been swallowed whole by the suckers who are born every minute as one corporatist once put it. I, for one, feel this "trouble" should become a rallying point for a discussion on the fear based censorship that has so stifled our oligarchy-disguised-as-democracy that our children are going off like the kid in Virginia on an almost routine basis. The rise of this sort of mayhem should correlate pretty closely to the rise of right wing militaristic authoritarianism since the Reagan regime and other efforts to stomp out any seedlings of democracy planted in the 60s.

[cigsandcoffee]

14. You're railing against everything under the sun there.

You should step back from the soapbox for a moment and focus narrowly on the issue at hand: A kid wrote something really dumb when people are all keyed up on school shootings, and was arrested as a result.

Simple things first.

[noel adamson]

26. Narrow focus

If you want to maintain a narrow focus you might consider focusing on the root of this problem which is the root of many problems. Divide and conquer is applicable to thought as well as politics and military strategy. It is narrow mindedness that has gotten us where we are and to say we cannot correlate mass murder here, mass murder in Iraq and all of the other murderous activities that have transpired, particularly since 1980 is simply narrow mindedness. If this story is posted here on this political forum then it should have political value beyond the supposedly simple misdeed of some kid in some school somewhere.

Now about cigarettes and coffee....

[cigsandcoffee]

28. Well, I think you're taking some liberties...

...for the sake of making a general appeal against all that you believe is wrong in the world. Some things can stand alone, IMO, and a creepy kid getting arrested so that he can be given psychiatric evaluation is one of them. I don't suspect Reagan has a thing to do with it.

[noel adamson]

31. Point well taken...

...but then Reagan didn't have much to do with the Reagan administration either. All of what I said is just to say that these kids going off, the over-reaction to some kid's ramblings and so on are all symptoms of the same disease, a point being made by others in this thread. Even the notion that law enforcement should be involved in mental health issues is a bizarre aberration that might be easily associated with the shutting down of much of the mental health care system under Reagan.

[LisaL]

38. Exactly. How many people were screaming to high

heaven that VT shooter did not get the "help" he needed?
This student could be perfectly harmless, but I can't comprehend why he would write something like this for an essay?
Considering the VT shooting?

[ProudDad]

56. You don't do nothing

first the principal and the teacher have a reasonable conversation with the young man. CONVERSATION, NOT interrogation, not inquisition.

His excuse sounds pretty damn good to me. He's a straight "A" student who could possibly be cut some slack. They probably know him (or fucking should).

If you're still concerned you call in the school psychologist.

Oooops, this fucking country has decided to fuck over their kids and strip schools of music, arts, school counselors, libraries, education and all those stupid frills in favor of teaching to some bullshit test.

Now all they fucking know is call the stupid ass cops.

My bad. :nuke:

[Danger Mouse]

7. While I think the school overreacted...

I think the assignment should've been addressed. Now schools just call the police all the time...sigh. It's practically a police state if you're a kid.
I'm sick of it. What happened to being a kid? Schools are all reactionary these days.

[Bjornsdotter]

29. Absolutely

This was a first year teacher, not a teacher with years of experience. That is also something that needs to be addressed.

Cheers

[Danger Mouse]

32. Yeah. Be careful what you wish for and all that...

:P

[regnaD kciN]

9. Have you considered...

...that this might have been a test to discover who in the class might be dangerous, and take appropriate action?

I hate to be pedantic, but "do not judge or censor what you are writing" isn't the same as "we will give you immunity for whatever you write," just as one's parents telling one to "tell the truth" doesn't mean "you won't have to pay the price if the 'truth' incriminates you."

[kath]

11. more and more people are being persecuted for THOUGHT CRIMES in Murka these days.

In the la-and of the fuh-reeeeee, and the ho-ome of the brave.

[cigsandcoffee]

15. More and more people are using guns to shoot up schools.

That makes for a tough trade-off, IMO. I'd have a hard time doing nothing if a kid is writing about shooting his classmates. You'd brush it off?

[Chovexani]

51. There has to be a middle ground somewhere

Between "doing nothing" and arresting someone for what's essentially a thought crime.

The idea that someone can be arrested for completing a writing assignment for school should chill everyone who honestly believes in free speech.

Then again, I was a goth kid sent home from HS for wearing a trenchcoat in the aftermath of Columbine, so I'm a little touchy about this issue.

[ProudDad]

57. Not really

I doubt that it's happening with any more frequency than it has in ronnie ray-gun and the repuke's version of amerika.

This kid doesn't sound ANYTHING like the poor bastard who shot up VT...

[krkaufman]

13. I can't say whether the student should have been arrested ...

... since I can't determine whether he broke any laws; nor can I tell whether he should have been suspended or expelled, since I don't know what school policies may have been broken.

However... the dude definitely needed to be immediately committed for psychiatric evaluation, insuring he wouldn't be of harm to himself or others, and that he could resume his life as quickly as possible, healthfully.

[cigsandcoffee]

18. Arresting someone is the first step toward a psychiatric evaluation.

No other way that I know to do it, unless it's voluntary - and when voluntary, the state has no real power in the matter.

[Maddy McCall]

20. Really? Can you cite Illinois law on this?

That's not how involuntary commitment works in MOST states. You don't initiate the process in any state that I know of by charging the person with a crime.

[cigsandcoffee]

22. Sorry - I'm not in Illinois.

How would you get the kid in for a psychiatric evaluation without placing him nder arrest? At the clinics here, folks being given psychiatric evaluations are virtually always brought to the facilities by police via the Baker Act. How does it happen where you live?

[cigsandcoffee]

24. Here's how it works in Florida

I'm sure other states have similar procedures. I bolded the salient part as it might apply to this kid.

http://www.psychlaws.org/PressRoom/faqonbakeract.htm

What are the criteria for involuntary psychiatric exams in Florida?

Florida law permits a mental health professional, law enforcement officer, or judge who issues an ex parte order to initiate an involuntary examination only when a person meets the following criteria:

If there is reason to believe that he or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness:

(a) 1. The person has refused voluntary examination after conscientious explanation and (a) disclosure of the purpose of the examination; or

(a) 2. The person is unable to determine for himself or herself whether the examination is (a) necessary; and

(b) 1. Without care or treatment, the person is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself; such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; and it is not apparent that such harm may be avoided through the help of willing family members or friends or the provision of other services; or

(a) 2. There is a substantial likelihood that without care or treatment the person will cause serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others in the near future, as evidenced by recent behavior

[Maddy McCall]

40. Sure...that's how it works in most states, including the one I live in.

A concerned party petitions the court to place the mentaily ill individual into forced treatment. This begins a whole cascade of events, including evaluation, a court hearing, and then detainment and transportation if the individual won't go to treatment on his own. In no part of this is the individual charged with a crime.

It doesn't begin with being arrested FOR A CRIME and then moving from there.

With involuntary commitment, there is no criminal record.


edit: typo

[stillcool]

16. Arrested?

that is fucked up. Whatever this kid's history is...it should have not gotten him arrested for creative writing in a creative writing class. If he exhibited problematic thinking he should be referred to the problematic thinking department. And people actually agree with this shit?

[cigsandcoffee]

17. Being arrested is how the state gets any person in to the mental health system. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

21. Again, NO, not in my state.

I've never heard of any state beginning the process by charging the person with a crime. No involuntary commitment process I've ever heard of starts that way.

[cigsandcoffee]

23. You're really quite wrong.

For instance, if an obviously troubled guy is wandering up a crowded street shrieking "Monster!" at people, it's very likely that the police will arrest him, and then escort him to a mental health facility. This absolutely happens in your state, nomatter which one it is.

I suspect the kid was dealt with in a very similar way.

[Maddy McCall]

43. But they don't have to charge him with a crime.

And in most cases of involuntary commitment, the process is NOT initiated with an arrest.

What's happening with the student who wrote the essay in the OP...well, I HOPE that they will get him treatment if he needs it...BUT the treatment process could have been intiated WITHOUT the criminal charge. That's what makes me think that this is more about criminalizing free speech (Beware the Thought Police--a student at a local university was incarcerated here two days after the VT tragedy for an essay he posted on his myspace page long before the VT tragedy) than it is about getting help for individuals who need it.

[Forkboy]

27. My sister had my own father arrested for vagrancy to get him help.

He was sleeping in a car outside of my apartment every night for over a year.Totally in the grip of paranoid schizophrenia/bipolar 2.It was the only was to get him any help.He wouldn't do it himself.

[Maddy McCall]

41. I'm sure that happens sometimes.

However, she could have gone through the involuntary commitment process, which would result in no criminal record, vagrancy or otherwise.

And I'm very sorry about your father. My family is considering the involuntary commitment process for a family member of our own. It's an excruciating thing to go through. :hug:

[Forkboy]

47. I dont think they had that twenty years ago...at least not here.

I'm sure my sister would have chosen that route if it had been available.Doing what she did made her feel like shit,but it worked,and my father is much better than he was before.

Good luck in your own situation. :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

49. Tell me 'bout it.

About feeling like shit. Even going through the involuntary process is painful enough...I can't imagine how painful that was for your sister, to have to go that direction with her father. Just can't imagine it.

Thanks for the good wishes--we really need them right now. :( :hug:

[stillcool]

34. What mental health system..

requires an arrest?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/stillcool47

[cigsandcoffee]

35. The ones where potentially troubled individuals don't want to go on their own.

Here, it's called the Baker Act. I'm sure your state has a similar procedure to deal with those who have exhibited behaviour which leads people to believe that they may harm themselves or others.

[Maddy McCall]

44. Still, a criminal charge is NOT tacked on.

You are confusing involuntary commitment with criminal arrest.

If a judge deems an individual to be in need of in-patient treatment (and out-patient in some states), then he orders the individual into treatment. IF the individual won't go on his own accord, then deputies or police will take him to treatment.

No criminal record results from the involuntary commitment process, EVEN IF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS are called to transport the person to treatment.

[stillcool]

46. I'm familiar with being 'Baker-acted'..

and that is not being arrested. From people I have spoken to who have been introduced to 'recovery' in that manner, they were forced into a mental health facility at the behest of family members. In no way does this article represent such an occurrence.

[ProudDad]

53. Not in California

No arrest, no charge, etc.

Just a 5150 72 hour evaluation.

[LisaL]

42. Tell this to all the people who claim Cho did not get the help

he needed but it should have been obvious.
Many people who write something disturbing are not going to do anything physically violent, but what about those few individuals who will?
I guess to be on a safe side everybody who writes something disturbing should be getting "help?"

[Maddy McCall]

45. According to Benjamin Franklin...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

To me, that includes first amendment rights.

There are ways to get individuals treatment who need it without infringing on first amendment rights.

God help Edgar Allan Poe and even Nathaniel Hawthorne if either were alive today. :)

[stillcool]

48. There are many, many avenues...

one can take to the mental health industry. I would think a professional in the business of education would have at their fingertips..access to an array of resources to intervene if they were so concerned. Art/Music/Literature are expressions, and should be encouraged...not penalized. But then...maybe not..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=762097&mesg_id=762097

[Forkboy]

19. He should just form a Death Metal band.

:)

[Eugene]

39. Marine Corps drops student after essay

Source: Associated Press

Marine Crops drops student after essay

By MEGAN REICHGOTT, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago

CHICAGO - Allen Lee was on the verge of realizing a dream
to become a Marine after signing enlistment papers this month.
But one violent, profanity-laced English essay later, the
18-year-old's future with the Marine Corps appears to be over.

Because of pending criminal charges stemming from his essay,
Lee's recruiter told him Friday that the Marine Corps has
discharged him from his contract, said Sgt. Luis R. Agostini,
spokesman for the Marine Corps Recruiting Station Chicago.

"Basically, he is no longer an applicant to become a Marine,"
Agostini said.

The senior at suburban Cary-Grove High School was charged
this week with two misdemeanor counts of disorderly conduct
after the principal turned his creative writing essay over
to police.

-snip-

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070428/ap_on_re_us/student_essay_arrest_3

[ProudDad]

52. READ MY LIPS

The CRIMINALLY UNJUST SYSTEM is no FUCKING good at dealing with mental illness!!!

THE FUCKING COPS ARE no FUCKING good at dealing with mental illness!!!

The PRISON-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IS NO FUCKING good at dealing with mental illness!!!

When is this asinine U. S. of A. gonna' learn these simple TRUTHS...


This is a stupid, stupid, stupid fucking country.


On EDIT: FUCK THAT PRINCIPAL TOO!!! Fucking republican country -- all they fucking know is call the cops. The stupid fucking cops don't know what to do either except charge people with crimes.

TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!

[reichstag911]

62. I'm with you.

I've had my LTTEs published numerous times in the Sun-Times and Trib, largely going after the Chicago police and/or Cook County prosecutors, most recently on that 250-pound slob who beat up the small female bartender. Here's what I just sent 'em on the most recent Sun-Times story on this kid ( http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/362148,CST-NWS-essay28.article ):

Dear Sirs:

The young Mr. Lee, the creative literary lion of Cary-Grove High School who presumed to criticize his teacher in his explicit fiction exercise, should count his blessings if the Marines will not now take him for use as cannon fodder in (the-anything-but-straight-A-student) George Bush's misguided and futile war in Iraq.

If people are intent on finding writing to upset them so they can prosecute the authors, perhaps they should take a close look at George Tenet's book, in which he tries to whitewash his reputation and "legacy" despite being one of the most cravenly obsequious of Bush's sycophants in the run-up to Iraq. He now distances himself from his own infamous "slam dunk" assessment of Saddam Hussein's nefarious intentions toward the US on which others, including Cheney, the fratboy's puppetmaster, claimed to definitively rely in their decision-making. Prosecute the criminal writers of memoirs, not those who write fiction about criminal acts.

And Mr. Lee: Don't criticize your teachers...'til you graduate, at least! Like most authority figures, they generally have far too exalted a sense of their own rectitude, propriety, and benevolent intent to accept any critical commentary without retaliation.
Best,
Ron

[clixtox]

63. Spot On Analysis...

And true assessment of the current situation in the USA. We suck! To put it mildly...

[ProudDad]

54. Geez - fucking Mickey Spillane

or Agatha Christie or Steven King would be jammed into the slammer every day if this is the criteria.

IT'S BULLSHIT!!! It's bullshit in a bullshit country run by bullshit assholes.

[ProudDad]

58. I just LOVE all the folks here on DU

who seem to have gone to the Bill Frist School of Medical Diagnosis.

God DAMN -- so many people ready to call anyone who shows any kind of idiosyncrasy as requiring immediate commitment or incarceration..

In my day there would have been at least a couple of teachers who knew the kid and would have a good idea whether he was "kidding" or not. The principal and teacher would have sat down with him and talked it out first. Then, if they were still concerned they'd all meet with the parents ... along with the school counselor. Then they'd keep a eye on the kid for a while to make sure he was just kidding. If he was disturbed, he'd get help -- not a fucking jail cell and a criminal charge!!!

The cops were NEVER seen on campus except the first day of "integration" when there were a few cars out front of the school on the first day but ... nothing happened. Cops on campus was just fucking unheard of.


IS THIS THE KIND OF COUNTRY YOU WANT TO LIVE IN?????

[Honeycombe8]

61. You seem a bit hostile and angry. Quick, someone...do something!

But seriously...

With all due respect, in "your" day, as you say, kids hadn't shown up on campus several times with multiple assault weapons, gunning innocent kids and teachers down in their tracks.

Times have changed.

The school probably had him arrested so the police could try to determine if he had weapons, if he was a real threat, and the like, before the school moved on to consider the writing student's mental health.

The schools are just ultra-sensitive right now, understably.

I bet the kid's learned his lesson. Which is the point. Talking about dreaming about how fun it would be to kill your classmates and have sex with their dead bodies is not something to be done at this time, in that place. Don't try it at the airport, either.

I will say one thing about the school, though. Shame on them for not having a talk with all the students in the auditorium, telling them not to make jokes or references to shootings and such, because the school would take it seriously. Like they tell all of us at the airport.

[Forkboy]

59. I can only imagine the reaction had Thomas Harris been a student there.

[knight_of_the_star]

60. Shades of Columbine

I was in Jr. High when Columbine happened and I got hauled into the Vice Principal's office for 1.) wearing camo pants 2.) having a bag stuffed full of things like clothes for a band trip I was going to be leaving on that day and 3.) blowing off some kid I didn't like who asked about it and was accused of having a hit list of students and had to have my bag searched. I can remember how incredibly paranoid things were for the month or two after, then nothing really ended up changing.

[Occulus]

64. An adult has been arrested for the *content* of writing he was compelled to write.

I am deeply disturbed by this.

Arrested. For the content of what he was compelled to write.

Said content being, as he wrote, "a dream". CG, computer graphics, shooting.

Arrested.

For the content of his writing.

[militaryspouse]

65. ..

Pretty creepy that you could get arrested for bad writing.

[HuffleClaw]

66. thought criminal !

what a disgrace. only in BushAmerika.