Cuba frees journalist after 22 months

[Bacchus39]

Source: AP

HAVANA - Cuba has released an journalist who served 22-months in prison for participating in an anti-government rally, a local activist and a foreign media watchdog group said Thursday.


Roberto de Jesus Guerra Perez, who reported for U.S. Web sites, was released from Valle Grande prison outside Havana on Tuesday, according to veteran dissident Martha Beatriz Roque, who said she spoke with Guerra shortly after he was freed.

Guerra has been a contributor to Miami's Payolibre and Nueva Prensa Cubana, as well as the U.S. government-funded Radio Marti.

He was among six dissidents who were picked up during a street protest on July 13, 2005, the 11th anniversary of the deadly sinking of a migrant-filled tugboat. Government opponents say the boat was rammed by the Cuban coast guard and that 41 people died, but authorities called it an accidental collision with 32 dead.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070511/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_journalist_freed;_ylt=Aj__sLxEbINd9zQ8wPLTN6m3IxIF

[1932]

1. Thought exercise:

What would the US government do if, in the US, there was a reporter working with Al Qaeda to spread propaganda undermining the US?

And, while we're at it, what would the US Government do if Posada Carilles were an Al Qaeda terrorist responsible for killing Americans in terrorist acts and another country harbored him and refused to turn him over?

Hmm. What would the US do?

[rudeboy666]

2. Straw man? Evading the question?

Where to begin!

Observation: it seems to me that many on these boards appear to hold the notion that legitimate Cuban opposition is a contradiction in terms.

Am I wrong?

[David__77]

3. I'm sure there is a legitimate opposition.

But they don't wouldn't take money and logistic support from the US government, in my opinion. I know nothing of this case, so I don't know if that applies, but there have been cases of such agentry. In Venezuela, too, "Sumate" acts as an illegal arm of the US government in attempting to destabilize the government. Admittedly, it is not possible to openly organize political movements against the ruling party in Cuba. For that and other reasons, it is difficult to assess certain political conditions in that country.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. You need to read the rules.

You're only allowed to hold one idea in your head when it comes to issues like Cuba. Either Castro is a deranged maniac who ought to be shot, or he's a hero struggling for the Cuban people against the oppressors up North, and every Cuban in Miami is a paid government agent.

It is not allowed, for isntance, to believe that US policy towards Cuba is a crock of shit which makes the Cuban government understandably paranoid, and think that Castro is still an authoritarian asshole with a weird uniform fetish. We'll have to wait and see if US policy changes when Castro goes to the big party headquarters in the sky, and his brother is "democratically elected" with 98% of the vote. I have my doubts that US policy will change, unfortunately.

[Mika]

9. That is your perception of the Cuba discussions?

I think that you might be missing some nuances of the many discussions here.


Please point out where anyone has said that "every Cuban in Miami is a paid government agent". I have read that nowhere here. Those of us who are aware of Cuba/US politics are aware that there is a majority of Cuban Americans in Miami who seek more normalization w/Cuba, and do not adhere to the hard line exile stance. That certainly doesn't mean that hard line US paid disinformation groups, like Casa Bacardi, Cuba Transition Study Group, Cubanet, CANF, etc, don't exist in Miami. It is a fact that the US government and Miami based groups (both with terrorist connections) spend millions of dollars per year to support political parties and independent operators who are opponents of the system of government in Cuba, despite the fact that it is illegal to do so.

Just as there is nuanced discussion on the politics in Cuba, at least among those who know and who've experienced modern Cuba, and that there is a wide range of opinion about Castro in Cuba and it is expressed politically. I, for one, have ALWAYS advocated the idea that Mr Castro IS NOT the doer of all things good and bad in Cuba. The Cuban people deserve the credit and condemnation for what goes on in Cuba. It is their country, therefore their business.



yibbehobba, for you to say that there is no room for nuanced discussion on the Cuba threads is simply preposterous, and derides the real and nuanced conversations that have taken place here. I sincerely hope that you can open your eyes, you heart, and your mind to reconsider "the rules" that you have attributed to these discussions.


:hi:

[donsu]

12. true

nt

[Psephos]

109. yibbe is closer to a factual appraisal than you are

Not to say you don't have a point, too - I have seen *some* nuanced and thoughtful discussions here. Unfortunately, any thread involving Castro or Chavez will surely devolve into a non-sequitur festival, with indignant huffing and puffing by partisans both for and against them, and more straw figures than one can see at Burning Man.

It seems like it's always the same characters, spouting the same indignities...and usually answering any honest criticism of Cuba or Venezuela with a cherry-picked US equivalency example. As though we can't criticize our own government and someone else's at the same time.

Cuba and Venezuela deserve some accolades, and some rebukes. I have nothing to learn from any poster who sees only the good, or only the evil.

[Mika]

110. Its too bad that you see it that way.

I was really responding to yibbe's claim that there are "rules", regarding Cuba discussions, that require one to hold only one idea in one's head. Why even debate with those posters then? Why not engage the posters who are open to discussion with you who do so within your parameters of discussion. There's a pretty wide range of topics and levels of discussion on the Cuba related threads. Please, come and join us in some nuanced and thoughtful discussions here.

:hi:

[1932]

7. Posada Carillies and OBL are real men, not straw men.

And a thought exercise is just that. it's an an exercise in thinking.

And all I'm asking, is why there's one rule for the US and another for the rest of the world.

[donsu]

13. because that's how the Barons want it

military/military indus. barons

oil/gas/coal barons
pharma barons
agri barons

you know, the white Barons

the mil./mil. indus and pharma barons are quite clever. They create their own continual source of money. start a war, reap money. only treat illness, never cure illness, reap money.

[Mika]

11. Yes, you are wrong.

Observation: it seems to me that many on these boards appear to hold the notion that legitimate Cuban opposition is a contradiction in terms.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong.

It seems to me that you have missed the distinction, made by the DUers who have actually been to Cuba and have seen and/or studied the political activity there, that there is legitimate domestic political opposition in Cuba that function openly and freely, and there is the US (gov and Miamicuban exile) paid for opposition in Cuba. The latter activity is illegal in Cuba - just as it is in the US.

It seems that this nuance is largely missed by the anti Castro posters here on DU. Many seem to hold to the notion that a political group or party funded by the declared enemies of Cuba is one and the same as the domestic political (not foreign paid) parties in Cuba. This is simply not true.

[1932]

23. Rudeboy, any comments on post 18?

[ProudDad]

25. Yes

You are wrong.

[murdoch]

18. A New Yorker who installed Al-Manar satellites was arrested

He sold satellite service for Al-Manar, Hezbollah's TV station and was thrown in jail.

Of course Hamas is a terrorist organization...if you're the US government. Or Israel. Or other remnants of the British Empire - Canada, Australia, or the UK itself. Aside from that only Holland has designated them so.

Freedom of speech in the US...right.

Perez is taking money from a foreign government that has been trying to violently overthrow the Cuban government for decades. This doesn't even rise to a level of a joke.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082401461.html

[1932]

21. I forgot about that one. Excellent example and not a straw man at all.

And I assume this guy isn't getting out after 22 months?

[joshcryer]

30. They might have a stronger case, his comments about 'spies' and whatnot.

Makes the prosecution want to toast him. I personally can't find anything else about his case. But the difference here is that he got charged, got to talk to an attorney, got what we call due process.

[1932]

35. The guy in Cuba went free.

These two guys did essentially the exact same thing.

[joshcryer]

66. Except one got due process and the other one didn't.

[joshcryer]

29. Iqbal got due process, just like any other suspect.

Now whether or not he deserved it is anyones guess (I personally think no), but he didn't wind up not getting charged, not having an attorney, not being able to speak to any council for almost 2 years, etc, etc. He even got a reasonable sized bail considering what he was being charged with. The freaking ACLU came out in support of him.

[1932]

36. Would you rather have slow process that results in freedom or due process

that puts you in jail for even longer?

You do understand that this is the exactly the same thing that these two people did with the exception that the guy in Cuba was actually supporting terrorism that is having a devestating impact on the Cuban economy and society, while the guy in the US was participating in terrorism that is happeing towards the US at a time when the stock market is the highest its every been and while Al Qaeda is not making much of a dent at all in how Americans are enjoying life in America.

[joshcryer]

48. Do you have any evidence that he was "supporting terrorism"?

He was charged with public disruption. When Cuba finds an actual terrorist the terrorist is summarily executed.

And that's a pretty convoluted bit of logic. I'd rather be in jail after having gone through a trial than sit in jail without knowing WTF evidence they have against me or what I did wrong. As a responsible citizen I will follow laws to the best of my beliefs. If I'm in jail without being charged then I cannot be a responsible citizen. I am nothing. I can't know what I did to society and I certainly cannot correct this behavior if I feel it needs correcting.

They locked this guy up because they didn't like him, and unless some other evidence can be provided, that is what I will believe. Do you have any evidence to support his terrorism?

[1932]

55. By the US's own definition of terrorism, we terrorize Cuba.

Do you not see the parallel between Posada Corrilles and OBL?

Do you not see the parallel between this guy and Iqbal in Staten Island and this guy in Cuba.

Exercise your brain a little. Try these thought exercises. Read Hegemony or Survival if you still don't get it.

[joshcryer]

65. I asked for evidence.

No need to tell me to exercise my brain, I think my asking for evidence is more than enough.

No, I don't care about all the other things the US has done. What is the evidence this person in particular is a terrorist?

[1932]

92. Did you see the story about how the US spent two months engaged in Iraq propaganda

prior to invasion.

That is what this guy was doing.

I'm not saying the US invasion of Cuba is two months away, but that's exactly what these Cuban conduits for the U.S. perspective are doing.

What would you have said if Iraq stopped the U.S. propaganda campaign prior to the invasion?

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/White_Paper_reveals_Pentagon_propaganda_campaign_0509.html

[joshcryer]

101. Dude, I can (and have) throw anarchist propaganda around all I want.

I've never been arrested.

[1932]

106. Anarchist propaganda is not a threat to any vested interest...dude.

However, the US government propaganda, from Allende to Iraq, seems to have an impact.

[Socal31]

4. !!!

So Cuba does everything right? Castro has never sent his cronies to kill anyone?

One of the main things im sure ill disagree on this board is that Cuba and Vene. have poop that doesnt stink.

I cant wait to see "Sicko", because I think "social" medicine is the wave of the future, and Cuba is on the forefront of that. But as far as the regime and thier policies....No Thank You!

[tkmorris]

5. See, there's your problem

No one said any of the things you just did. The point is rather that every time Cuba jails someone for going to far attempting to overthrow the government it is reported here as if it is a direct assault on Democracy. It isn't.

There are things you can say and do to oppose the government in Cuba, just as there are here. And there are things you CANNOT do, same as there are here. Sometimes the Cuban government is legitimately defending itself against those who would violently overthrow it, not killing Democracy. We all need to objectively discern the difference, not kneejerk to an a priori position.

[roody]

8. One of their policies is free health care for all.

Another is sending health care workers to serve others all over the world.

[Mika]

14. And another is full literacy and world class education..

Before the 1959 revolution

75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.

More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.

85% had no inside running water.

91% had no electricity.

There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.

More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.

Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.

The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.

45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.

1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).

27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.

Racial discrimination was widespread.

The public school system had deteriorated badly.

Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.

Police brutality and torture were common.

___



After the 1959 revolution
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/185.html

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

[Bacchus39]

15. you do not need a marxist dictatorship to have free health care,

high literacy. furthermore, restrictions on free speech, free press, restrictions on travel, and opposition political parties are not necessarily either. furthermore you can actually earn money and participate in private enterprise outside of a Marxist dictatorship. universal poverty is not a requirement for a just society.

see France and Canada.

see Uruguay

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0108124.html

Literacy rate: 98% (2003 est.)

Economic summary: GDP/PPP (2005 est.): $54.58 billion; per capita $16,000. Real growth rate: 6.1%. Inflation: 4.9%. Unemployment: 12.5%. Arable land: 8%. Agriculture: rice, wheat, corn, barley; livestock; fish. Labor force: 1.52 million; agriculture 14%, industry 16%, services 70%. Industries: food processing, electrical machinery,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay#Health_and_Sanitation

The government of Uruguay has done much to improve its health conditions. Under the national constitution, the State is responsible for all medical functions in Uruguay, and provides free medical care for those who qualify for it, particularly for the aged and those who cannot afford medical costs. This is done by the 'Ministerio de Salud Publica', Ministry of Health, who owns and operate a network of hospitals and clinics all over the country

Uruguay has a high literacy rate, comparable to those of most developed nations. Education is compulsory for students aged 6–11 and free at all levels—primary, secondary, technical school, and university.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-32692/Uruguay

[ProudDad]

26. You have a better chance of having free health care

under a "Marxist dictatorship" (which is an impossibility, by the way, read your Marx) than under a capitalist fascist state like the U.S. of A.

[Mika]

57. You are absolutely right. Cuba is not a marxist dictatorship.

furthermore, restrictions on free speech, free press, restrictions on travel, and opposition political parties are not necessarily either

Actually you are pretty much describing the current conditions in the US. Your above list seems to be the requirement for a privatized for-profit systems of health care and drug access.

[1932]

10. When was the last time Cuba sent anyone to assassinate someone?

And if that's your test, the US has been doing that to Cuba and its allies for years, and right up to the present.

Cuba and Venezuela may indeed have poop that stinks, but if your primary concern is extrajudicial execution...

[otherlander]

17. Welcome to DU.

Would you like to borrow some of my lynch mob repellant? :hi:

[Socal31]

43. Thank You!

No repellant needed though. I can handle myself in most debates ") But believe me, if it is a topic that I know nothing about, you wont see me post there! You can be made to look like a fool rather quickly here if you speak of what you do not know.

[joshcryer]

16. He was held 19 months without even being charged with a crime.

Sounds like Gitmo style justice to me.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. So it's not outside the norms of our own justice system.

I won't worry too much about it then.

[murdoch]

19. When will those in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba be free?

At least Cuba has trials and lets people go eventually.

Of course, the Cuban government has been asking that base to be closed for decades. Since the US government is run by an idle class elite of rich heirs, and is full of imperialist arrogance and hubris, it doesn't care less what the Cuban people think of the Guantanamo torture prisons.

[joshcryer]

20. Did you read the post directly above yours?

He didn't even get charged until he was given his sentence. There are actually some others who were at that very protest who *still* haven't gotten a trial or been charged with anything.

[1932]

24. Did you see post 18?

The US doesn't treat people any better whom we think are working with terrorist countries trying to destroy us.

[joshcryer]

28. I'm not saying that. Though I personally have never heard of anyone in the USA...

...spending almost two years in jail for "public disruption."

It's like Cuba is mocking this guy, saying, hey, spend two years in jail, and then when we finally charge you we'll give you something retarded and say it warrents those almost two years of your life.

If this happened in the USA you can be sure that the support behind such a person would be overwhelming.

Also, this guy isn't comparable at all to the guy in post #18 as far as I can tell. At least Iqbal got *charged* and had *bail.* Totally and utterly, completely, different scenarios. If you don't see that then I don't know what you're thinking.

[1932]

37. You don't think there are people the US has been holding for a long time without charge

for cooperating with people we believe are involved in terrorism directed at the US?

[Bacchus39]

39. so its OK to imprison journalists in Cuba because the US arrests

people for terrorist activities or support terrorist organizations?

[1932]

40. The terrorism Cuba is subjected to is infinitely more intense by any measure

than the terrorism the US suffers from. And their response to it is mild compared the US's response to it.

I think it's worth pointing that out.

[joshcryer]

47. Arresting someone for almost two years, without charge, is 'mild'?

Wow, I guess Gitomo is only moderate.

[1932]

54. ...compared to what the US does to people who have a much smaller impact on

the American way, it is. I think that this is practically a truism.

Do you think the US is jeopardized by retransmissions of Hezbollah's TV station?

[joshcryer]

67. I don't know. Without charge, without due process is a big issue.

And when it happens in the USA a lot of people get upset. You and I both know this. So why are you skirting around the issue?

[1932]

77. If Cuba did to the US what the US does and has done to Cuba, Cuban-Americans would be in internment

camps.

[joshcryer]

83. Hyperbole.

Conjecture.

[1932]

86. Seriously, you need to read Hegemony or Survival.

Because, I don't think you know what the US has done to Cuba.

By the way, let's try this again (from the top of this thread): a guy who is an admitted terroris in Cuba, responsible for bombing hotels and an airplaine, who worked with the US was in US custody and the government won't send him to Cuba or Venezuela to stand trial.

Afghanistan was WILLING to give the US OBL, and we didn't take him, and we bombed that country and invaded another over that.

There couldn't be a more clear parallel with a more stunningly different outcome.

[joshcryer]

87. I've read plenty about Cuba. And used to be an ardent supporter of Cuba.

I have become far less authoritarian over time however, and consider myself anti-state, and cannot attribute any good in Cuba to the state itself, but the people who made their country what it is in spite of an oppressive government. I have been to Cuba, I have talked to Cubans. I need to go back again soon.

I just cannot believe the senseless defense of Cuba on knee jerk points of view.

[Mika]

89. Conversely..

.. it does have to give one pause when "journalists", "dissidents", and organizations paid by US based anti Cuba right wing foundations (and branches of the US government) accuse Cuba of doing things that often turn out to be senseless fabrications.

[Bacchus39]

50. wow, quite a declaration

so is that the reason for Cuba's police state and keeping an eye out for all sorts of pre-criminal behavior??

[1932]

53. Does that declaration give you too much context to understand what's going on

Cuba actually suffers real jeopardy at the hands of the US.

[Bacchus39]

58. apparently the internet is a grave threat to Cuba too

control control control. that is what Cuba is all about.]

http://www.cubaverdad.net/internet_access.htm

"Individuals cannot legally buy computers or sign up for regular Internet service without government permits that are almost impossible to obtain, so the nation's 335,000 desktops and laptops belong largely to the government, state enterprises and special individuals such as trusted doctors.

Internet cafes aimed at foreigners charge up to a Cuban's average one-month wage for an hour of surfing. But a black market has emerged, where users ''rent'' time slots from legally approved contacts.

''One of the things young people here most want is Internet, or satellite TV, or anything that offers different options than the ones offered here,'' dissident Vladimiro Roca said in a telephone interview from Havana. ``Young people have great initiative. They are fast at getting what they want. One way or another, they find it.''

[Mika]

59. So then why does the US sanction corps that want to connect Cuba to the Caribbean backbone?

From the link that you provided..

Cuba's Internet police, the Office of Information Security, caught the students at the University of Information Sciences (UCI) using school property to charge $30 a month for stolen Internet passwords

-

The students, officials added, also distributed hacked passwords belonging to authorized Internet users.

Stealing and selling school's internet accounts and passwords is a criminal activity. It is in the US also.

Cuban delegations have turned to international forums to argue that Cuba would offer the Internet more broadly, were it not for the fiber optic cable connections it lacks.

Cuba has very limited bandwidth due to the US's extra territorial sanctions on Cuba. That is the primary reason access is so limited. Cisco owns the Caribbean fiberoptic trunk that connects the Caribbean island to the www. Cisco is banned by the US Helms-Burton law from connecting Cuba.

[joshcryer]

69. Know of any Cuban bloggers?

[1932]

60. Apparently Hezbollah's satellite transmission is a threat to the US!

Don't you get it?

[joshcryer]

68. He wasn't arrested until he made the 'spies' comment.

They didn't just arrest him when they found he was transmitting Hezbollah videos, they arrested him after doing an investigation. And *then* they charged him and he got due process. Unlike this guy in Cuba who went without being charged for almost two years.

[joshcryer]

46. I'm sure there are, but the system has checks and balances to keep it from getting this bad.

[1932]

41. Public disruption? This is corroborating with an emeny that is terrorizing you.

Gitmo? Padilla? Abu Graib?

You're really not aware of the US's treatment of people we think are corroborating with terrorist enterprises?

And this is happening in the US with people involved in the media. The guy in Staten Island is an excellent example. He will go to jail if he did what he is accused of doing, and that's with due process and democracy.

[joshcryer]

45. According to Reporters without Borders his "charge" was public disruption.

I have no idea the intrinsic details of the case, what is appalling to me is that he didn't get charged until a few months before he was released, and they essentially had nothing on him. In the USA, in fact, our bill of rights grants us the right to have due process and a quick and speedy trial. And if we don't get it plenty of groups will come in our defense (just look at all the post-9/11 arrests and the outcry for such things).

[1932]

52. Reporters without Borders is the last NGO that is going to put this in context for you.

Don't you remember last year the stories about their funding?

[Mika]

56. Their info about comes from Cubanet's US paid "journalists".

Martha Beatriz Roque is on the payroll of the US Interest Section (in Havana). She is a frequent "guest" there, to get her marching orders and her pay.

Reporters without Borders and several other NGOs get their reports from these aforementioned US paid groups.

[joshcryer]

73. So, are there any dissidants in Cuba who aren't paid by the US?

[1932]

78. I'm not sure there are any in the US who arent' paid by the US.

Didn't you read a couple weeks about about how some reporters for that Miami newspaper were getting money from the US government to publish anti-Cuba stories.

[joshcryer]

81. I'm not talking about ones in the US.

[1932]

93. What's the difference between this guy and his friends in Miami?

[joshcryer]

70. Then please, by all means, find me a source of information that is not Reporters without Borders.

You'll find it nearly impossible, as I didn't find anything in the first 20 pages of Google.

[1932]

80. It will be interesting to see whether RSF defends Michael Moore's trip to Cuba.

[joshcryer]

82. No doubt they will.

[1932]

85. I doubt they wil.

[1932]

22. Bacchus, check out post 18. I'm interested in your thoughts on that one.

[ProudDad]

27. U.S. frees journalist after longest contempt incarceration in history

Pot, meet kettle.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/07/18/18289357.php

[joshcryer]

31. That kind of journalist thing has been going on for a long time, and is not exclusive to the USA.

The difference here is that Josh Wolf you know, had an attorney, was told all he had to do was cooperate, and so on. Due process and whatnot. Plus he got a crapload of support from the outside.

They're not similar scenarios.

[ProudDad]

62. You're right

Josh Wolf was not a paid agent of foreign power...

All Josh Wolf had to do was become a snitch for the cops and feds and ruin his career as a journalist.

Yep, big difference.

[joshcryer]

64. Josh Wolf eventually posted the video online.

And they set him free after the video was seen to hold no evidence. So in essence he did cave.

[ProudDad]

90. No, you're wrong

Josh Wolf objected to being hauled before the grand jury and being forced to undergo a federal fishing expidition.

When the DOJ dropped their demand that he testify before the grand jury he released the video (which he offered to do from the beginning) and was released from the Federal Farm in Dublin.

He did NOT cave in!

[Judi Lynn]

32. In May, CPJ identified Colombia as one the world's five most murderous countries for journalists....

In May, CPJ identified Colombia as one the world's five most murderous countries for journalists, a notoriety earned by 12 work-connected slayings in the country since 2000. Over the past decade, 28 journalists in Colombia have been killed for their work.

Still, deadly violence tapered off for the second consecutive year, with only one journalist slain in 2005. The government claimed credit for the decline, but many journalists assert that pervasive self-censorship has now replaced widespread murder. An October investigative report by CPJ found that threats, assaults, and intimidation continue from all sides in the ongoing civil war, causing the press to severely limit its coverage of armed conflict, human rights abuses, organized crime, drug trafficking, and corruption.

For CPJ's report, "Untold Stories," Bogotá-based journalist Chip Mitchell interviewed three dozen journalists during reporting trips to strife-ridden provinces such as Arauca, Córdoba, and Caquetá. Editors, reporters, and other media professionals said they routinely muzzle themselves because they fear physical retribution from leftist guerrillas and right-wing paramilitaries, along with harassment from government troops and officials. News is sometimes censored before broadcast or publication. In other cases, probing journalists are forced to abandon stories because of intimidation. Most frequently, investigations never even get started because the threat of violence is so pervasive. Self-censorship is most extreme among regional media in provincial areas, where the government's presence is weak and state protection minimal.

Although the government exerts little formal control over news content, Colombian authorities, including high-ranking officials in President Àlvaro Uribe's administration, often persuade media outlets to withhold reporting. Economic factors also contribute to self-censorship. Journalists at short-staffed news outlets must often sell advertising, putting themselves in the difficult position of reporting on the very people who help them make a living. Most full-time Colombian journalists earn less than 800,000 pesos (US$350) a month.

"Untold Stories" was released on October 29 at a CPJ conference in Bogotá. CPJ Deputy Director Joel Simon moderated a panel discussion that was co-sponsored by the Colombian Fundación para la Libertad de Prensa (FLIP). Carlos Cortés, FLIP's executive director, and María Teresa Ronderos, the group's president, participated in the panel. Four journalists quoted in the report gave detailed presentations on the dangers and implications of reporting in Colombia. One panelist, Angel María León, from the conflict-ridden province of Arauca, said death threats had forced the local press corps to travel in armed caravans simply to get to press conferences.
(snip/...)

http://www.cpj.org/attacks05/americas05/colombia_05.html

[Judi Lynn]

33. High murder stats as non-foreign government supported actual journalists are murdered

Source: Reporters sans Frontières

Date: 30 Apr 2005
Annual report 2005
Fewer journalists were killed in Colombia in 2004 but the press freedom situation remained very bad. Armed groups, as well as corrupt politicians and druglords, continued their efforts to silence journalists.

Even good news has a bitter taste in Colombia. With only one journalist and one media assistant killed, 2004 counted as a good year for defenders of press freedom in a country where an official average of five journalists are murdered each year.

The two presumed killers of journalist and satirist Jaime Garzón, who were simply scapegoats, were acquitted. But this counted as good news too, as an injustice was at least repaired even if impunity continued.

Otherwise nothing really changed for the better in the hemisphere's most dangerous country for journalists. In fact it became even more perilous during the year, as shown by the 4 February murder of Oscar Alberto Polanco Herrera, presenter of the news programme "Notas de dirección" on the TV station CNC Noticias, in Cartago (300 km. west of Bogotá), after he criticised the town's mayor, who was being investigated for his relationship with a drug-trafficker. The killing showed the ever closer and more complex ties between the enemies of press freedom (corrupt politicians, druglords and armed groups) and the growing risk in exposing their crimes.

A sometimes alarming situation

Press freedom is under great threat in some provinces. Reporters Without Borders - with the Colombian Foundation for Press Freedom (FLIP), the Press and Society Institute (IPYS) and the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) - went on a fact-finding mission in April to Barrancabermeja (300 km. north of Bogotá).

Violence there by the paramilitary United Self-Defence Forces of Colombia (AUC), who arrived in the region in 2000, has replaced that of the Marxist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC). The AUC was suspected in the April 2003 killing of José Emeterio Rivas, of the radio station Calor Estereo, who had criticised links between the city government and AUC-controlled businesses. An AUC commander warned journalists in 2002 that he was now "looking after the city's good reputation" and that journalists should "speak well of the city and not talk about dead people."

The fact-finding mission found evidence of other more subtle pressure on the media such as threats by army officers and the withholding of official advertising to silence criticism.

As a result, local news was reduced to a trickle. After journalist Luis Alberto Castaño was threatened in Líbano (Tolima province), where he presented the town's last radio news programme, on the community radio station Cafe 93.5, he fled the region and the town was left without news. He had accused the AUC of carrying out a string of murders. He left under a government programme to protect journalists, but his departure was seen as a victory for the enemies of press freedom.
(snip/...)

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/ACIO-6C3KT4?OpenDocument



It becomes easier to see why it is a lot of information about Colombia never gets out of the country, other than the official stories which support the extremist right-wing government. They are being encouraged to either ignore reality or get outta Dodge.

[Bacchus39]

38. "pre-criminal social danger"

Reporters Without Borders today condemned the jailing of Oscar Sánchez Madan, a Matanzas province correspondent of the Miami-based Cubanet website. Arrested on 13 April and summarily tried the same day, Sánchez was sentenced to four years in prison as a “pre-criminal social danger.” His imprisonment brings the number of independent journalists currently held in Cuba to 26.

“The total of 27 dissident journalists jailed during the ‘Black Spring’ of March 2003 is on the verge of being reached again following Sánchez’s imprisonment,” Reporters Without Borders said. “Sánchez is the third journalist to be jailed since Raúl Castro took over as acting president on 31 July. Not only has the press freedom situation not changed, but so-called ‘social danger’ is again being used as a pretext for imprisonment. Sánchez was even denied the right to a lawyer, so his conviction was entirely arbitrary.”

Aged 44, Sánchez was a regular Cubanet contributor. He was arrested by members of the State Security (the political police) on the morning of 13 April at his home in Unión de Reyes, a small town in Matanzas province 100 km east of Havana. His arrest remained unreported until yesterday, when it was reported by the Cuban Commission for Human Rights and National Reconciliation, a Havana-based group that is illegal but tolerated by the government.

Sánchez was secretly tried by the Unión de Reyes municipal court immediately after his arrest, without members of his family attending and without even being able to have a defence lawyer. He was given a four-year sentence under a criminal code provision that allows the Cuban authorities to imprison any citizen as a potential danger to society, even if they have not committed a crime.

Two other journalists have been imprisoned as “pre-criminal social dangers” since Raúl Castro took over. They are Raymundo Perdigón Brito of the Yayabo Press agency, who was given a four-year sentence on 5 December, and Ramón Velázquez Toranso of the Libertad news agency who got a three-year sentence on 23 January.

Sánchez was taken to the Combinado del Sur penitentiary in Matanzas immediately after the trial.

[1932]

42. We have the same law. Iqbal in Staten Island will go to jail if he retransmitted Hezbollah's trans-

mission.

Why? Because it's a pre-criminal social danger for American citizens to hear what Hezbollah has to say.

And Hezbollah isn't even interested in undermining the US system of government the way the US has been trying to do that in Cuba.

[joshcryer]

44. Uh, we don't even know if Iqbal is in jail, and he got bail.

Do you not consider these somewhat different situations? He got due process, in Cuba apparently you don't even have due process, you can go to jail for being a "threat to society" and there isn't even a lawyer present. Don't you think that's pretty damn extreme?

[1932]

51. If he did what he's accused of doing he's going to jail.

What do you think of that?

[joshcryer]

71. He's accussed of supporting terrorists.

Not displaying illegal video, but supporting terrorists, getting funding, and so on. He made comments on the phone about spies and about how he was being watched and had to be careful. That sounds pretty damn suspicious. Since there are no news reports about him and I cannot find his case file online, we simply don't know what's happening to him.

But we can be pretty sure he's getting due process because he got a lawyer and he got charged right away and didn't sit in jail indefinitely.

[1932]

94. That's reassuring.

We have a great criminal justice system here and only the terrorists have to worry about going to jail.

[Mika]

49. They were on probation. They violated probation. They went to jail.

Just because Cubanet & some US paid "dissidents" report to Reporters Without Borders that they faced a secret trial doesn't make it so. These groups are paid by the US government and various Miami based exile groups expressly to issue fake reports.

The US paid "journalists" violated probation (on previous charges of aiding and abetting the declared enemy of the Cuban state, and for being undeclared/unregistered agents of a foreign government), and by continuing their illegal activities they were sent to jail as per the conditions of their probation. Violating probation and the subsequent legal procedures occur swiftly in Cuba.

[ProudDad]

63. The U.S. wastes time and money with probation violations

with a lot less merit than this one in Cuba.

"Violating probation and the subsequent legal procedures occur swiftly in Cuba."

As it does in the U.S. In California, parole violations are clogging the prisons and resulted in that fuckface the groppensteroidenfuhrer and his Dem stooges passing a $7.4 BILLION prison-industrial complex welfare bill.

[joshcryer]

72. Then disprove the reports with your own evidence.

RWB states that he was charged with "public disruption." Do you have a link to anything debunking this? Do you know anyone who has a scanner in Cuba who could get a copy of the court papers (fact, most court papers are public knowledge in the USA)? I do not see anything about them being charged with violating probation. And certainly I cannot envision going to a protest being a part of probation criteria.

[Mika]

74. First, show us the evidence that RWB & the US paid dissidents are using, other than heresay.

Since the release of this person, and the hearsay of his charges, is topic of this discussion as expressed in the OP.

As I've said before, just because RWB has reported hearsay from US paid propagandists doesn't make the story true.

RWB is using the "some people say" technique of pseudo journalism.

I'd like to see someone here post RWB's evidence of the actual charges before I continue- especially considering that some of their funding comes from the NED and Mellon Scaffe foundations (via Center for a Free Cuba).

[joshcryer]

75. You make a claim about RWB is making stuff up, then you must prove RWB is making stuff up.

You can't just say RWB is evil and blah blah, because that is a character attack. You'll notice I haven't used such attacks in my comments. If they have people on the ground as you self-admittly confess, then I would think that they are at least close enough to the situation to be able to make their assesssment. When people say "oh those global warming critics were paid for by the oil lobby" I do not consider that information, because who cares about such things, it's the data that is important, and if the data is wrong (as it is in those cases) then I will have a better understanding of the data.

I will email them and see exactly how they found out he wasn't charged until Feb and see if the charges were correct (public disruption).

I figure that when a journalist says that someone was taken and family was not allowed to see the person who was taken and the person wasn't allowed council, the journalist had interviews with the family and so on and so forth.

So do you know of any Cuban blogs?

[joshcryer]

76. BTW, the main source for this article is Reuters.

And I've been mostly talking about the Reuters report since that's what I can find the most information about. Is Ruters paid by the US government to make up shit?

[Mika]

79. I just want to know what evidence they are using - other than "dissidents say".

The "people on the ground" RWB is relying on are US (NED, CANF, Cubanet, etc) paid journalists.

What evidence is RWB using other than them? Where are their posted documents that show the charges, the verdict, the sentence?

I've searched all over their website and I can find nothing more than 'some dissidents say', and it has been shown that the so called dissidents that are reporting this "information" to RWB are employed by right wing hard line exile groups in Miami, the NED, and the US interests section in Havana.

It is suspicious that they don't have anything more in the form of evidence other than hearsay from persons in Cuba who receive funding from some of the same sources that RWB does.

Its hard to prove that 'some people' didn't say this to RWB. RWB is probably being accurate in reporting that some 'dissidents said' that Guerre was arrested for disturbing the peace, and was being held w/o charges. Doesn't make it so.

All I am saying is that, in light of their sources, I'd like to see some proof of the charges RWB is making.

--

What I do find of interest on the RWB site is their funding sources, some of which come from the NED and a couple of Mellon Scaiffe funded foundations.- who also fund the group of "journalists" and "dissidents" mentioned in the article on the RWB report.

[joshcryer]

84. I'm emailing them right now.

So we'll see if they respond.

[Mika]

88. Sounds good.

:thumbsup:

[Mika]

91. Kick to see the email response from RWB.

I just want to know if their evidence rises higher than the "some people say" level.

:kick:

[1932]

95. I'll kick this too.

Any response?

[joshcryer]

96. Nope. :(

[1932]

97. Does Mika's post above give you pause about their credibility.

[joshcryer]

98. Maybe.

But funding from questionable groups doesn't always indicate a move in a dishonorable way.

[1932]

99. What about funding from those groups in conjunction with reflecting their interests?

(And a google search suggests they haven't picked up on the Michael Moore thing yet.)

[joshcryer]

100. Still not convincing enough.

Because you can get funding if someone thinks you are supporting their ideal. Consider how the RSF got funding from the US government (the NED, created by Regan) and then subsequently comes out against the Iraq war and how it has led to many journalist deaths there. http://www.rsf.org/special_iraq_en.php3 Income: http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=10594

Basically, what is happening here is *because* a Cuban gets money from a US interest, they are arrested, it doesn't matter if what they're saying is true or not. It's kinda like a reverse embargo. Consider what Abel Prieto says here, "He (Raul Rivero) was not arrested for his views, but for receiving US funding for his collaboration with a country that has besieged our island." http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1227/p06s01-woam.html

The data is simply not clear enough at this point and it would be interesting to learn more about the RWB local level operations. However, to assume right off the bat that not one of the dissidants/journalists were geniune because they may or may not have gotten funding I think is just plain wrong. Are they reporting things how they see them? If so is that worthy of going to jail?

I have much respect for journalists, even independent journalists, which is why I asked about Cuban blogs, or other such information. I like personal commentary, personal viewpoints.

[Mika]

102. I would agree with you IF they provided some evidence.

The 'some people say' from people getting paid by the same foundations (that have an anti Castro bent, and a penchant for exaggerations) as RWB.

Many times, here on DU, a few of us have run down some of the stories as reported by the US paid Cubanet operators with the same 'dissidents report' & 'some people say' reporting tactic. Interestingly, RWB picked up the hearsay based Cubanet stories verbatim and put them on their front page as a substantiated new report on big bad Castro's abusive crushing dictatorship.

It just seems a little suspicious to me NOT that an incestuous relationship exists in regards to Cuba reportage, but that RWB is relying on (and stenographers for) paid mercenary "journalists" working for/funded by ardent right wing foundations, and the self declared enemy of the Cuban government - US government. The same foundations fund RWB and the same US government funds RWB.

- The "dissident journalists" are paid by the US Interests Section, Cubanet, as well as funding from the NED, and some Mellon Scaiffe foundations via Free Cuba Foundation.
- Cubanet is funded by the NED, Free Cuba Foundation, and some other "secret" sources.
- RWB is getting paid by the NED, Free Cuba Foundation, and some Mellon Scaiffe foundations.

When one does the research one can find, and be reasonably suspicious that, something isn't right here. Something smells rotten.


--

on edit: Aiding and abetting the declared enemies of Cuba (the US government is a self declared enemy of Cuba) is a crime in Cuba.

[joshcryer]

105. Just a clarification.

We all know the US makes it a crime to "aid and abet" Cubans (a sad example was the time the woman gave a band aid to a Cuban and then subsequently had her boat confiscated), and Cuban's do the same to the US?

[Mika]

107. No. American tourism to Cuba is something Cuba is desirous of.

The Cuban gov doesn't consider hosting American tourists and other visitors to be the enemy. Cuba has wanted Americans to be allowed to visit Cuba for over 40 years. It is the self declared enemy of Cuba (the US government) that is the enemy. The US funds many ops, with hundreds of millions of dollars per year, whos stated intentions are for a US created overthrow (aka: "transition") of government in Cuba. Those aiding and abetting the self declared enemy are watched and sometimes arrested. The self declared enemy of Cuba (the US government) has a long a checkered past involving bombings, assassinations, and other terrorism against Cuba. The self declared enemy of Cuba (the US government) has declared its intention to overthrow the Cuban government. Cuba has a legitimate duty to protect the country against such acts and activities.

An American offering a band aid for a cut doesn't even qualify as aiding and abetting, but yet if it involves a Cuban in Cuba it is the US that insists that it is a crime - not Cuba.

[Mika]

108. Another kick to see the email response from RWB

Again, I just want to know if their evidence rises higher than the "some people say" level when it comes to their Cuba reporting.

[Mika]

111. I see no reply from Rw/oB. I guess that "some people say" is their main source on Cuba.

Too bad to see that from such a well respected org.

Doesn't mean that none of their reporting around the world is unreliable, just their reporting from/about Cuba is suspect to say the least.

:kick:

[1932]

61. America threatens US journalist who went to Cuba to report on health care system:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2842827&mesg_id=2842827

[gorbal]

103. Interesting interview with Alacorn in "Cigar Afficianado"

He seems to want americans to influence Cuba as well. He wants americans to travel freely to Cuba so we can show them "our light" as he says.

That interview is proof to me that there are people in the upper tier of cuban society that want change, but won't say it outright.

(Of course, he wants to change us to:))

I can't seem to find the article online, but most Borders carry it.

[ProudDad]

104. Lest we get -- U.S. sentences patriots to Life

Life in prison for keeping an eye on the Miami terrorists.

http://www.freethefive.org/