Mortars strike Baghdad's Green Zone

[Barrett808]

Source: Reuters

BAGHDAD, July 10 (Reuters) - A number of mortars struck the Green Zone in Baghdad on Tuesday and Reuters reporters saw smoke rising in the vicinity of the U.S. embassy.

About 10 mortars landed in the heavily fortified compound where the Iraqi government and parliament are based and which is also home to many foreign embassies.

A U.S. Embassy official was not able to comment on whether the embassy, which covers a substantial area, had been struck, or if there were any casualties.

Mortar and rocket attacks on the Green Zone are common and it is often hard to establish if anyone has been hurt.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10931429.htm

[bdamomma]

1. that Green Zone is just another target.

[babylonsister]

2. One of these days, I'm going to read this headline and find out

that 100's have died. I'm not looking forward to that, but feel it coming. They're out for blood just as we need to get out of there. :mad:

[bdamomma]

4. we invaded their country, they want us out.

but I don't think those Green Zone personnel are going anywhere. sad but true.

[Trajan]

3. Ah .... Those fucking Neocons .....

Who'd have thought they SUCKED as war strategists ?

Er .... we knew ......

This war was ill gotten, and rotten to it's core .... It reflects the character of those who promoted it .....

[Amonester]

38. And to think it's been going on like this (and is even worse, lately)

for 4.5 years (soon)...

It boggles the mind beyond reason.

The Republican war criminals Really want that oil, don't they?

And They Still Don't Care How Many Lives Will Be Completely Destroyed After It Will Be Over.

They Never Will Care Unless They R Forced To Pay For Their War Crimes.

(Make A Clear Example For The Next Fascist Cons Who May Try Again.)

[SpiralHawk]

5. "Don't worry, I am perfectly safe and enjoying another vacation" - Commander AWOL

"Oooops, almost forgot my propaganda talking point of the day: everything is hunky dory with the Oil Crusade, and too bad and stuff about all the dead people. We republicons are noted for our conservative compassion, and for our lies and massive war profits and stuff. Now, watch this drive..."

- Commander AWOL

[KansDem]

6. Who was it that said recently...

We beat back the German, Japanese, and Italian war machines in less time than it's taken to secure the road from the Baghdad airport to downtown Baghdad?

This latest skirmish proves that...

[mikeytherat]

7. Please move to GD - this is not news.

Not an attack on the OP, just the sad reality that this happens almost every day. Why it is now being reported more often I do not know, but The Green Zone is a great, big target, and gets hit all the time.

mikey_the_rat

[Eugene]

8. Update at link: Mortars hit Baghdad's Green Zone, no one killed -US

Source: Reuters

Mortars hit Baghdad's Green Zone, no one killed -US
10 Jul 2007 14:06:39 GMT
Source: Reuters

(Updates with U.S. embassy comment)

BAGHDAD, July 10 (Reuters) - A number of mortars struck
the Green Zone in Baghdad on Tuesday, a U.S. embassy
spokesman said, adding that no one had been killed in the
attack.

Reuters reporters saw smoke rising in the vicinity of the
U.S. embassy after the strike on the heavily fortified Green
Zone, home to the Iraqi government and parliament and
many other foreign embassies.

The U.S. spokesman said there had been around a dozen
explosions inside the Green Zone, which covers a large area
of central Baghdad and is bounded on one side by the Tigris
river.

He said that there had been no fatalities, but had no
information on whether anyone had been wounded in the
strike.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10931429.htm

[xchrom]

9. another punchline to a series of bad jokes

all of which make up the war in iraq.

[zalinda]

10. It's been going on for months

Some people I know who worked in the green zone, was going to quit in December, then they moved the date up to September, they left last week...........it was too dangerous.

They had been working there for about 2 years.

zalinda

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. They need to upgrade the Green Zone to the Yellow Zone.

For at least a couple of reasons.

[Eugene]

12. Green Zone mortar barrage killed 3 - Iraqi police

Source: Reuters

Green Zone mortar barrage kills 3 - Iraqi police
10 Jul 2007 16:22:48 GMT
Source: Reuters

(Adds Iraqi police)

BAGHDAD, July 10 (Reuters) - A big mortar and rocket
attack on Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone compound
on Tuesday killed two Iraqis and a Filipino and wounded
25 other people, Iraqi police said.

Police said some 30 mortars and rockets were fired at the
compound, which houses the Iraqi government along with
the U.S. and British embassies. It was one of the biggest
barrages against the zone since the U.S.-led invasion in
2003.

-snip-

Police said many of the wounded were Iraqis. Contractors
of numerous nationalities work inside the compound,
often employed by security companies.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10931429.htm

---

Original story: IRAQ POLICE SAY GREEN ZONE MORTAR BARRAGE KILLED 2 IRAQIS, 1 FILIPINO - Reuters AlertNet

[Eugene]

13. Update: Green Zone mortar attack kills one US, two others-US

Source: Reuters

Green Zone mortar attack kills one US, two others-US
10 Jul 2007 19:55:59 GMT
Source: Reuters

BAGHDAD, July 10 (Reuters) - A major mortar and rocket
attack on Baghdad's Green Zone compound on Tuesday
killed at least three people, including one U.S. military
service member, and wounded around 18 other people,
the U.S. embassy said.

The embassy said in a statement that five of the injured
were U.S. citizens, including two service members and
three contract employees. It was one of the biggest
barrages against the heavily fortified zone.

Link: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10672724.htm

[slipslidingaway]

14. Barrage of Mortars Strike Green Zone Tuesday

Source: BBC, Reuters, AP

"A number of mortar rounds struck the Green Zone on Tuesday, with estimates ranging from 10 to more than thirty. Eyewitnesses reported smoke rising near the US embassy compound. A US spokesman initially reported no fatalities, but police sources are now saying three were killed and 25 wounded.

The BBC has the lowest count at 10 mortars, Reuters cites a US spokesman who said there had been around a dozen explosions, AP reports the sound of at least 23 mortars was heard in central Baghdad, and VOI's piece indicates there may have been two separate barrages spaced about a half-hour apart that totaled more than thirty...

The US spokesman Reuters cited said that there had been no fatalities, but had no information on whether anyone had been wounded in the strike. Reuters' latest report cites police sources who say two Iraqis and one Filipino were killed and 25 wounded in the attacks."





Read more: http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/3522/Barrage_of_Mortars_Strike_Green_Zone_Tuesday

[Ian David]

15. They missed McCain.

I'm not going to say whether or not that's a bad thing.

[trashcanistanista]

20. He's not there

he actually showed up in the Senate this afternoon.

[bleedingheart]

16. yet my neighbor told me this weekend the Green Zone was safe

apparently not...

[Javaman]

19. well it really a matter of what you define as safe...

the green zone is still safer then downtown baghdad...

:rofl: Sorry I couldn't hold it in any longer...

[AzDar]

17. Obviously, the last throes of the 'insurgency'...

Bush/Cheney are NEVER going to leave Iraq, and have said as much.
THEY MUST BE REMOVED.
For the sake of the U.S., and (what's left) of Iraq.

[TexasLawyer]

18. 3 Killed in Attack on Green Zone

An update:

Jul 10, 3:50 PM EDT

3 Killed in Attack on Green Zone

BAGHDAD (AP) -- A thunderous barrage of mortars or rockets killed at least three people and wounded 18 in the Green Zone on Tuesday, the U.S. Embassy said. One of the dead was an American service member.

An estimated 20 projectiles crashed into the heavily fortified area of Baghdad at about 4:15 p.m.

A U.S. Embassy statement said the dead included one U.S. military member, an Iraqi and a person of unknown nationality. The 18 wounded included five Americans - two military and three contract employees - the embassy statement said.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki warned gunmen a week ago to stop firing rockets and mortar rounds into the Green Zone, which houses the U.S. Embassy and several other foreign missions along with some key Iraqi government offices and the Iraqi parliament.

<snip>

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_MORTAR_ATTACK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-07-10-15-50-06

[Hissyspit]

21. Breaking: Up to 35 Mortars Fall on Green Zone; Three Fatalities

Source: CNN

Via Situation Room.


No link yet.

[KansDem]

22. It's on CNN, if you can stomach it...

[Ian David]

23. Maybe we should send McCain back for a closer look NOW? n/t

[northernsoul]

24. only if he takes Lieberman with him

Freedom is on the march!

[Dr.Phool]

25. Don't forget Lindsey!

[chelsea0011]

26. Baghdad is not secure?

Now I know nothing about mortars, but my understanding is that they aren't fired from great distances. So I assume that the area just outside the Green Area is as lawless as the countryside? Am I correct to assume this?

[uppityperson]

28. Baghdad is not secure.

If you have never gone to this site, I'd recommend it as not only a running tally of US and ally and contractor deaths, but a good collection of news stories (on right of page). You are right, Baghdad is NOT secure, hence the "surge" within Baghdad.

[TheMadMonk]

27. Just like LA & Chicago. n/t

[BootinUp]

29. We've really got them on the run now!

The closer they get, the more desperate they are!

[ShortnFiery]

30. Yes, The Green Zone is becoming one big a**ed target ... Bring in The Bird!

The Bird is the Word!

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&/&/images4/corporation_law/helicopter.jpe

[lovuian]

31. Iraq is quite out of control Bush & Company can't stomach

that they are LOSING

they failed with the war and 911 and the surge and the firing of attornies and Plame
they fail and failed and failed and their power is waning

If there was one big benefit from this I will never believe the TV or our government ever again

[bemildred]

32. Can genuine artillery bombardment be far behind? nt

[happyslug]

34. The question is WHAT size Mortars are being used, 81 or 120mm?

Mortars have LOW RANGE and fire Light Rounds (THOUGH the Killing Radius is about the same as Artillery).

The real question is WHAT SIZE Mortars are the Iraqis using. Since WWII (and except for some exceptions since WWI) you have had three different types of Infantry Mortars in general Use. These are often called Light (Or Company Level), Medium (Or Battalion Level) or Heavy Mortars (Generally independent, but can be attached to any unit). In non-Mechanized infantry units, Company level mortars are 60mm, Battalion level are 81 or 82 (If Soviet equipped) with the heavy mortars being reserved for 120 mm Mortars (The US used a 107 as a heavy Mortar till the 1980s but it was one of the few exceptions to this rule). In Mechanized units, the 81 became the Company level, with the 120 or 107 mm Mortars becoming the Battalion level Mortars (Since these are all require mechanization I will ignore them for the rest of this Comment).

The 60 mm Mortars weigh under 45 pounds total with its tube, base-plate and tripod each weighing less than 15 pounds. The US M2 60mm Mortar fired a 3-4 pound Projectile under 2000 meters (Under one Mile). The US M2 was used from WWII till Vietnam (and probably still in use somewhere in the world). According to the records I have read the Iraqis like the Soviet Union DID NOT USE A 60 MM Mortar. The Soviets believed the 3-4 pound round was NOT worth the effort to haul it wound (The Germans ran across this philosophy during WWII and adopted a similar attitude saying the only people who knew how to use Mortars were the Russians).

Battalion level Mortars (81 or 82mm) weigh about 100-130 pound, divided into three parts each weighing about 45 pounds each. It has a range of over 3000 yards (One and half Mile). These are the Mortars most likely being used. The projectile weighs 10-12 pounds and can do a lot of damage. These are the weapons I suspect are being used, small enough to fit in a car dis-assembled. A half-train crew could remove these from a small car, assemble the 82mm Mortar, fire 3-5 rounds, disassembled the Weapon and throw it into the car and leave the area, all within 5 minutes. 35 rounds could be 2-3 teams moving from spot to spot as they fire and move. It could be one team that just fired 10 times (But I suspect it was 2-3 teams firing 2-3 times thus confusing the Americans where the rounds were coming from and where the mortar team was heading next.

While I do NOT suspect the Iraqis are using 120mm Mortars (Weighing 300-500 Pounds, with each part. i.e. Tube, Tripod and Baseplate) weighing over 100 pounds). The Reason being the Weight of the Mortar is excessive and you need a truck to haul it. A While Trained crew could assemble fire 3-5 rounds and dis-assembled the Weapon in under five Minutes (Which How I as trained in the 1980s). The projectile weigh over 25 pounds and can penetrate 2-3 FEET of Concrete being exploding (and causing More damage). While I have NOT heard of 120mm Mortars being used in Iraq, these were used in Vietnam by the Viet Cong. Range exceed 5000 yards (through some newer mortars exceed 7000 yards) or about 3 Miles. Effusive Runway killer in Vietnam. If these are being used in Iraq, the situation is way worse then just "Mortar Rounds" hitting the Green Zone.

[bemildred]

36. Well, the mortarers seem "emboldened" any way you look at it.

It's not just a few rounds now & then these days, it's 35 rounds fired over an extended period. What you say is very interesting, and I thank you for it, but I don't expect that we will be informed with that level of detail about what is going on. But we do know they fired 35 rounds into the Green Zone and (apparently) walked away, or drove away.

The other question would be how accurate is their aim, these days. Hitting the GZ is easy, it's a big target. When they start knowing what they are aiming at, and hitting it, look out.

Edit: and seriously, there must be a lot of old artillery lying around in Iraq still, and old artillerymen, and we know there are plenty of old shells (IEDs, right?) what's to stop someone from firing one up one of these days? What does this say about our counterfire capabilities and air-support? I still remember the big guns going off at Ft Sill, that would really wake things up, obsolete and out of fashion though it is.

[happyslug]

37. At the Peak of Dien Bien Phu, the Viet Minh fired almost 9000 Rounds per day.

That is EXTREME Heavy shelling. Most days it was less, but still way more then 35 rounds per day. At Khe Sang in 1968 the Viet Cong were able to fire 1,190 rounds on 9/25/1967 but average 100-150 rounds per day. Thus Iraq is NOT yet up to Vietnam levels, but is growing.

More on Dien Bien Phu (1954 Defeat of the French in Indo-China):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu
http://www.dienbienphu.org/english/index.htm

For more on Khe Sanh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khe_Sanh

[daleo]

39. I thought the U.S. had quick response counter fire

Radar guided or something like that? I thought the Iraqi resistance could only fire off a round or two before skedaddling, or it was curtains for them. Has that changed, I wonder? 35 well placed rounds seems like it would take some deliberation.

[bemildred]

40. That's what I was thinking about.

There does seem to be some ambiguity about the number of rounds, but they all seem to agree that it was more than "a few".

[happyslug]

42. No, a good Mortar team could fire 3-4 rounds in a Minute and gone.

By that time Counter battery be up, the mortar team would be gone. No one stays for the Other side to return fire. Fire and move started in Vietnam and by the time I was in (1980s) everyone was doing it. 35 rounds fire by three teams, firing only three round and then moving to an another site would be second nature to any mortar-man or artillerist. Three teams each firing three rounds each from THREE DIFFERENT fire sites, would give you 36 rounds (Something went wrong with the 36th round, or it landed and somehow NOT counted).

As to accuracy, that is NOT the Intention of the Mortar-men, it is just harassing fire. If it lands in the Green ZOne, it was successful. If heavier and more rounds are fired, then accuracy starts to matter, the Iraqis may want ot HIT something IMPORTANT ON PURPOSE, as opposed to by Accident. Right Now, it is JUST harassing fire, The question can the Iraqis do more? Can the US Stop this type of Firring? If the US does NOT stop it, morale will decline and training restricted in the Green Zone (To avoid losses to the harassing fire). All Outside Activities will be restricted, so they goes REPAIRS and MAINTENANCE. If the Iraqis CAN increase to 120mm and take the time to AIM even just the first shots, the effect will be even greater. Only Time will tell.

Now there are two ways to affect WHERE a mortar round will land, the first is to remove the powder slices (On the 4.2 I worked on we called each slice of Powder a "Slice of Cheese" for that what the powder charges on the 4.2 inch looked like, a slice of American Cheese, right down to the Size and thickness AND how each slice was next to each other). Depending on HOW many slices you left on the Round or removed, set the HOW far it would go. Thus you could decide to fire the three rounds with each Round having more or less Powder then each other. The effect would be Three Rounds go three different distances.

The Second way to affect WHERE a round would hit is the traversing mechanism on the Tripod. A good crew could fire Three Rounds (Each with the Same Charge) but the gunner moves the Transversing Mechanism between each round, thus you have three rounds going Downrange but each landing left or right of each other. We NEVER fired this was for safety reasons, but we were TRAINED to do so in an Emergency quick fire. The MEchanism was design so that the gunner could start at one end, fire a Round, Flip the Mechanism and fire the Second Round, and then move the mechanism again and fire the third round. All of this could occur within a Minute.

In either case, the step AFTER firing the Rounds, would be to disassemble the Mortar, take a well train crew a Minute. Thus each crew could fire three rounds and be on their was in under Two Minutes. By the time the Round HIT anything, the firing crew is already to its next firring site. Can the US response in Time? If the US fires BLINDLY (i.e. Have the Counter-battery pre-loaded so that when the Counter-Battery Radar shows the Location of the Mortars launch Site. The guns are fired WITHOUT anyone looking to she if the Area is School, shopping area or even where some US troops are moving to).

The need for SPEED in movement is probably why the Iraqis are still using only 81mm mortars, these are quicker to set up and take down then the heavier 120mm.

[libodem]

33. Smoke rising

from that big-ass embassy? Someone must have plugged in an appliance in the kitchen. I hear the construction is so poor that the wiring is unsafe.

[badgervan]

35. Where are the Pics?

Notice no pics on any of the cable or network news shows? Remember a few weeks ago, the WH banned all reporters and cameras from any battle scenes or areas - we have no good idea of what has really been going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, or any combat areas anywhere. This is not good, but it allows cheney to manipulate what we see and hear. What have we let these people do to our country?

[PassingFair]

41. This is why Katrina was so DEVASTATING for them.

The split-screen destroyed their propaganda machine.

We are DESTROYING Iraq.

We don't know and WE DON'T CARE.