Hindu Prayer in Senate Disrupted

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Fox News

A Hindu clergyman made history Thursday by offering the Senate's morning prayer, but only after police officers removed three shouting protesters from the visitors' gallery.

Rajan Zed, director of interfaith relations at a Hindu temple in Reno, Nev., gave the brief prayer that opens each day's Senate session. As he stood at the chamber's podium in a bright orange and burgundy robe, two women and a man began shouting "this is an abomination" and other complaints from the gallery.

Police officers quickly arrested them and charged them disrupting Congress, a misdemeanor. The male protester told an AP reporter, "we are Christians and patriots" before police handcuffed them and led them away.

For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."

Zed, the first Hindu to offer the Senate prayer, began: "We meditate on the transcendental glory of the Deity Supreme, who is inside the heart of the Earth, inside the life of the sky and inside the soul of the heaven. May He stimulate and illuminate our minds."



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jul12/0,4670,SenatePrayer,00.html

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YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30Hz7A

Christian AHoles! When I hear of these stories I find myself hoping there is a God and a Jesus - I'd love to see the look on these AHoles faces as they hear "On earth you didn't represent me." And kudos to my Senator for kicking them out. Santorum probably would have been up there joining the fundie jerks! Note these idiots were there to protest the Hate Crime Bill - I'm so pissed right now!

According to TPMCafe:

Senator Bob Casey (D-PA), serving as the presiding officer for the morning, immediately ordered them taken away — though they continued to yell at the Hindu cleric as they were headed out the door, shouting out phrases such as, "No Lord but Jesus Christ!" and "There's only one true God!"

You can hear the protestor continue:

This is an abomination! We shall have no other Gods before You. You are the one true God.

http://2politicaljunkies.blogspot.com/

In the interview, Benham praised the three activists, Ante and Katherine Pavkovic and their daughter Kristen. And he scorned the idea of the Hindu invocation.

"What we have here is just a wonderful example of Christian theology becoming biography in the sacred chamber of the United States Senate, as a Hindu was offering up a prayer to open up the session this morning. And the folks that were there ... waited for the Senate, or a Senator with a backbone, to remind the Hindu that there is one God who made this country great, and his name is Jesus."

The Pavkovics disrupted the ceremony after seeing that no Senator would emerge to challenge the Hindu clergyman's beliefs.

The idea to protest the Hindu's invocation originated in a very organic way, Benham said in the interview. The Pavkovics had come to Washington to protest the proposed hate crimes bill with other activists. When everyone else was headed home, the family found out about the upcoming Hindu presence in the Senate, and realized they could not simply stay silent.

"They thought they needed to go and represent the Lord who made this nation great," Benham said. The event, he said, is emblematic of the modern tendency of "other religions being held on a par with Christianity. Of course, we have said that is not true, that indeed Christianity is one way."

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jul/12/head_of_christian_right_group_calls_hindu_senate_invocation_gross_idolatry

[bluestateguy]

1. This is why organized prayers are better kept out of the Congress all together

And that goes for all faiths. Separation of church and state is the best strategy for avoiding religious warfare.

Members can pray on their own or with other members outside of the official session.

[drm604]

31. Bingo!

That is the lesson of incidents like this.

[jobycom]

2. And yet, when you explain to them that someone always feels this way when a prayer is forced,

say, for instance, when a Christian prayer is forced in public schools, they can't grasp it.

[JI7]

3. i bet these fools are the same ones who want prayer in public schools

and other public places.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Well, yes, of course.

I'm on the AFA mailing list, which I monitor out of some bizarre masochistic need to keep track of what they're up to. It's pretty clear that they worship that deity that George Carlin talked about--you know, the all-powerful one who always seems to need money. Don Wildmon, the chief Poobah or whatever his title is, is always frothing up his unwashed following over somebody somewhere tolerating homosexuals or saying naughty words or trying to take a Christmas tableau out of some public place, and then hitting them up for money to fight the evil with. I imagine it's a pretty lucrative scam, if you have the stomach for it.

[saigon68]

26. Yikes

[JerseygirlCT]

39. So long as THEY pick the prayers nt

[kurth]

4. Get rid of all this dog & pony universal galactic public prayer crap!

[rhiannon55]

5. And yet, what an elegant prayer

If those protesters could have allowed themselves to hear it, they would have found nothing objectionable about it. It's sad what fear and bigotry can do to a person.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. I remember, some years ago, attending an appearance by the Dalai Lama.

It was picketed by fundie Christians, who assumed that HH was there to proseletyze. In the question session afterward, someone asked how one becomes a Buddhist. HH essentially said that the questioner might be best advised to find his spiritual path in the context of Christianity because it is more congenial with western culture, and one would end up in about the same place anyway, but, if the questioner insisted, well, then....

[The Stranger]

23. I agree, it is a beautiful prayer.

I wonder if this is what happened in Imperial Rome. If so, it may explain why they threw them to the lions and the Christians' notions of martyrdom and celebrating being thrown.

[JerseygirlCT]

40. Exactly. Obviously chosen carefully to appeal to the largest

cross-section of people, to be meaningful without being exclusive.

I thought it was lovely, myself.

And, as you say, nothing there to contradict even conservative Christian belief -- if you have a mind capable of comprehending anything outside of a very tiny box.

[rhiannon55]

45. Fundamentalism is self-induced mental atrophy

Refusing to think leads to inability to think. That tiny little box contains your entire tiny little world. Sad, really.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. "the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it"

Yeah, it's not exactly an "inquiring minds" situation, huh?

[Bake]

54. There's a variation on that theme that goes like this:

"God said it, and that settles it whether you believe it or not." I think it was the late Adrian Rogers who said that.

Picked that one up from my days in the seminary ...

Bake

[Manifestor_of_Light]

7. Flip Benham is an anti-abortion leader. Of the bomb throwing type.

I had the misfortune of being in the same room with him when I was a court reporter during part of a suit, Planned Parenthood et al v. Operation Rescue, etal.

[Phredicles]

12. And yet he was allowed into the Senate gallery,

even though "bomb-throwing type" certainly suggests he belongs on a terrorist watch list. I wonder if a fundamentalist Muslim cleric of similar rhetoric would have the same freedom of access.

[JerseygirlCT]

41. Good point!

Imagine if he was an environmental activist, or one of those real terrorists, a peace activist. Think he would have gotten within 100 ft. of the chamber?

Really good point. Hadn't thought of that.

[sakabatou]

18. Your patience must've been pushed

[Ilsa]

24. I've seen his sorry hateful ass in public also at a clinic rally on a

Saturday. We had a pretty good turnout for helping young women access the clinic and keeping the nutcases from assaulting them. He is such a phony.

[MnFats]

37. yeah. Flip Benham is one of the crazies. I mean REAL crazies.

he supports placing photos of clinic workers, staff, docs and volunteers on a website urging abortion foes to kill them.
he has absolutely insane ideas about sex, marriage, homosexuality and a raft of others.
a google ought to bring some of this stuff up but I'm at work.
Just heard Thom Hartman play the tape and was so appalled I had to post....

[Freeusfromthechurch]

9. We need some hindu prayers

I would attend church if the prayers sounded like that.

[Bitwit1234]

10. What makes the three so called christians

I call them so called don't capitalize christians because true Christians do not act this way. Prayers need to be kept out of the political arena but why is one religion better than any other. This just shows that these christians are as bad as the Islam militants they want everyone to worship they way they do.

Remember that's why the Pilgrims braved the hardship of the journey, and came to America, for freedom of religion.

[Occulus]

27. Gotta quibble

There's no "so-called" about these people. They are christians.

We need to stop drawing a distinction between "good" christians and "bad" christians. If they believe christ is their personal lord and savior or believe in the divinity of christ (or whatever the "official" definition of "being a christian" really is these days", they are christians.

As a former minister I work with loves to point out (with permanent marker graffiti accompanied by fish-thing drawings on the containers at work): it's not good acts, or acting in a christlike manner, that gets you into heaven, it's simply believing in him as your savior.

That mentality makes me :puke:, but there it is.

[stanwyck]

30. Actually, I'm gong to quibble with you

My Presbyterian background taught us that we can't even make the judgment that we have attained Christianity. That is the judgment of God. As Presbyterians, (and I haven't attended church in decades) we are on the path. Christianity is a journey. "I am the path. I am the way." You have to live your entire life on the path to Christianity. You can't merely assert that you have achieved Christian status. That is not the individual's judgment to make.
Just saying that you are something doesn't make it so.
The people who behaved so badly toward the Hindu priest are not Christians. Their actions belie their words. By their actions shall you know them.
Sorry. Not Christians.

[Zhade]

34. Again, you don't decide who is and is not ANYTHING.

They call themselves christian, guess what - you're stuck with 'em in your religion.

Or you could follow your argument to its eventual conclusion, and start killing off those you somehow deem as unworthy.

[Occulus]

46. They are according to the dictionary

and that's the ONLY authority I accept when defining words.

Yours is just an opinion. My words are stone cold factual truth.

Falwell and Robertson are as christian as you are, by definition. I'm sorry you find that difficult to accept, but it is the truth.

[happyslug]

49. While that is Strong in the Protestant Community, it is REJECTED by Catholics

Among Catholics IT IS GOOD WORKS that gets you to heaven, not a belief in Christ or God. Now the Catholic Church has to deal with Faith, and calls it important, it is NOT essential to go to Heaven. According to the Catholic Church, Faith WITHOUT good works CAN NOT GET YOU INTO HEAVEN. Many Protestant (not all, but many) reject this for they prefer FAITH ALONE IS ENOUGH to get to heaven. As to New Testament Support, St Paul is cited for the position that one can get to heaven by Faith Alone, but Christ is quoted in the Gospels that Faith IS NOT ENOUGH, YOU NEED GOOD WORKS.

Thus Robert Casey (Who as cited as presiding over the Senate that day) ordered the PROTESTERS OUT, even through he and his father were and are STRONG CATHOLICS (His father, the late Governor of Pennsylvania is deceased).

Now the Catholic Church has its own problems (Many will be repeated after this comment and if not just go to the "Catholic" threads where many of the problems of the Catholic Church will be stated, AND mis-stated). My point is that at least the CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT BAN THIS TYPE OF PRAY. Pray by a non-believer (from the Catholic point of view) in a NON-CHURCH SITTING is acceptable to the Church. To permit such pray does NOT endorse such belief (THrough the Catholic Church will oppose any endorsement of such beliefs, if that is the intent, but no such intent is intended in permitting this pray).

[JerseygirlCT]

61. Your friend has one prominent viewpoint, the other is equally held

It's a long conversation in Christianity: faith or works?

The bottom line to me: faith without works is meaningless. And the works themselves demonstrate more faith than any declaration of belief ever could.

But I agree -- if they say they're Christians, it's not for me to say they're not. Their actions certainly don't match up with my idea of Christian behavior, but...

[Zhade]

33. Fallacy. All who claim to worship Jesus are Christians, PERIOD.

You don't get to say that only good people are true christians, sorry. That's utter bullshit.

[stanwyck]

35. Agree. You don't become something

just by saying you are. Those who have actually read The Bible know this. Jesus said "I am the path. I am the way." Christianity is a journey. Believers struggle to become Christians. They cannot just proclaim themselves Christians. This goes to the very core of understanding the faith. There's the irony. Those who so loudly proclaim themselves Christians..show that they have no understanding of the Christian faith.

[LanternWaste]

62. there seems to be a rather large difference between the two...

I think you're actually referring to someone who sincerely worships Jesus, not simply claiming to worship Him. For my part, there seems to be a rather large difference between the two.

Much like someone claiming to be an Aerospace Engineer doesn't necessarily mean that person really is an Aerospace Engineer.

[JI7]

11. this is too funny, the protestors originally came to protest the Hate Crimes Bill

[JerseygirlCT]

44. Fighting the noble fight for their right to hate... nt

[Neoma]

13. Perfect.

[IndianaGreen]

14. According to Pope Ratzo, all of them non-Catholics are defective religions

Mullah Omar and Sheik bin Laden will argue that their religion is the one true faith, and all the others are heretics.

Meanwhile at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, women that dare to enter the area reserved for males, are attacked as heretics, while gays are demonized for holding their Pride parade in the "holy city."

What was that thing that Marx said about religion and opiates?

[LanternWaste]

63. I think X-boxes and I-pods...

"What was that thing that Marx said about religion and opiates?"

I think X-boxes and I-pods have long replaced religion in that particular aspect, though...

[Joe Bacon]

15. THANK YOU BOB CASEY!

Senator Casey, thank you for handling this in a superb manner!

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. "...go and represent the Lord who made this nation great".

This nation? The one we stole from the native Indians, who we slaughtered and put in concentration camps? And now the people we've slaughtered for their oil? Where in the Bible does it say to do so, and that it pleases God?

These are some extremely WIDE interpretations of the meaning of religion and God's will. I seem to remember the Bible being full of forgiveness and love. What am I missing?

Much less the witch-hunting absolutist rejection of Hinduism.

[rodeodance]

17. "sacred chamber of the United States Senate"?? sacred??

[zbdent]

22. Bet they could find plenty of "money-changers" there ...

[Gman]

19. The RW will claim that "Chiristians were silenced"

and other inflammatory crap like that.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. Thou shalt have no fantasy before MINE

Saw a funny bumpersticker recently: "My god told me to hate you."

I'm surprised the car hadn't been mangled by ball-peen hammers.

[Tesha]

21. I'm having some trouble distinguishing these two statements...

I'm having some trouble distinguishing these two statements:

Shouted by the "Christians" as they were hauled out of the U.S. Senate:

"No Lord but Jesus Christ!" and "There's only one true God!"

Good religinonists, right?


Shouted by Islamic "enemies" as they are executed for their (alleged) crimes:

“There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”

Bad religionists, right?


Help me out here...

Tesha

[JerseygirlCT]

42. Oh that's easy. Say "God" in Arabic and you apparently get an

entirely different Deity.

Because, you know, Jesus Christ came to earth and spoke in English. It's right there in the bible. And any of them furriners who worship Mohamed, well they're just plain heathens!

Ignorance. It's evidently an epidemic in this country.

[Tesha]

50. Of Course! (forehead slap!) I forgot the Cosmic Clearinghouse for prayers!

Where they sort out which Deity Division gets
which petitions.

Tesha

[NoodleyAppendage]

25. Throw them to the lions.

Maybe there was a good reason for the early Roman treatment of Xtians?

J

[Nihil]

52. Sorry, we're a bit more humane now ...

... and recognise the pain & indigestion something like that could
give a lion ... it would be worse than feeding the lions with Chinese
petfood ...

:evilgrin:

[DuaneBidoux]

28. Fair is fair. If they want it in government they better prepare for more of this.

[DuaneBidoux]

29. Fair is fair. If they want it in government they better prepare for more of this.

[Zhade]

32. Hey, here's an idea - let's avoid this by following the Constitution and not having prayers.

So simple, a caveman could do it.

[superconnected]

36. It's like christians saying gay marriage shouldn't happen because it is against what the Christian

god said for marriage. Marriage is for every religion and athiests, not just Christians. So they may as well protest all other religions having marriage, since they think the Christians own the cornerstone on it. Well, apparently they feel the US government is only for Christians too.

[JerseygirlCT]

43. They're wrong on two counts, then. Because the Christian God

didn't say that, either...

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Well, I'm with you. Pisses me off, too. How ignorant and rude

can people be? How insular and fearful of anything ever so slightly outside your comfort zone of stupidity?

I don't understand the mind-set that feels threatened when someone else has beliefs that don't sync perfectly with your own. It's a small kind of vision of God that would fear that.

[regnaD kciN]

47. As a Christian cleric, I'd like to offer a simple solution to this...

...namely, stop offering prayers before sessions of a secular government assembly!!! If members of a particular religious bent feel like they want to begin their workday with prayer, allow them the use of one of the conference rooms or offices to hold whatever prayers, religious services, etc., they want. Then let them come to the House or Senate chamber, and have the session start with a simple call to order, as it should be.

[Adsos Letter]

56. Absolutely correct...

and any teachers or students who want prayer before school begins for the day can freely do so at home. Or silently, on their own, before class starts. Or in groups, out loud, outside the classroom. Heck, you can pray silently ANY time...I have done so on a number of occasions.

[Bucky]

51. The good news: there was only three of them.

Oh, sure there's many more like them. But tolerance and diversity won this round. This story makes me smile. Mostly.

[noonwitch]

53. At least it wasn't a Mormon prayer

Just kidding, sort of. I read Martha Beck's book, and she describes rituals in which mormons pantomine the many ways they will painfully die if they reveal any aspects of mormon ritual (this is the only one the author explained).

[gorgan]

55. They should have waited

until the 21st to hold this ceremony, then, any potential disrupters would have been preoccupied burning copies of the latest Harry Potter book.

[knight_of_the_star]

57. Hmmmm

I wonder how they would react to a Pagan invocation in the Senate chamber.

[daleo]

58. How did they pronounce his name

Zed or Zee?

"Rajan Zed, director of interfaith relations at a Hindu temple in Reno, Nev., gave the brief prayer that opens each day's Senate session."

[davidthegnome]

59. I guess it depends on which definition you follow

as for whether or not they were Christians. I don't really care about public prayer one way or another (so long as nothing is forced), but those three are idiots.

[Codeine]

60. Throw ALL this crap out.

Xtianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, etc. -- it's all the silliest bullshit and has no place in the governance of our nation.