Teamsters to Try to Block Mexican Trucks

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Teamsters to Try to Block Mexican Trucks

By JESSE J. HOLLAND, AP Labor Writer

Wednesday, August 29, 2007

(08-29) 08:26 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

The Teamsters Union said Wednesday it will ask a federal
appeals courts to block the Bush administration's plan to
begin allowing Mexican trucks to carry cargo anywhere in
the United States.

The union said it has been told by officials in the
Transportation Department's Federal Motor Carrier Safety
Administration that the first Mexican trucks will be coming
across the border on Saturday.

Teamsters leaders said they planned to seek an emergency
injunction Wednesday from the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of
Appeals in San Francisco.

-snip-

Joining the Teamsters in seeking the emergency stay were
the Sierra Club and Public Citizen. "Before providing
unconditional access throughout the country to tens of
thousands of big rigs we know little to nothing about, we
must insure they meet safety and environmental standards,"
Sierra Club executive director Carl Pope said.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/08/29/national/w080756D88.DTL

[Bluzmann57]

1. Good. American truckers for American jobs.

Besides, many of the Mexican trucks are unsafe. I support the Teamsters in their efforts to block Mexican trucks from fanning out all over America.

[earthside]

3. But ...

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

But won't Mexican truckers drive routes that Americans won't drive?

Shouldn't we have compassion for Mexican truckers that just want to make a fraction of what Americans earn, so that they can feed their families?

Without Mexican truckers won't we end up paying more for the Chinese-made consumer products we must have?

Won't South American grown produce be even cheaper for us Americans if it gets into the U.S. hauled on inexpensive Mexican trucks?

Those Teamsters need to have more compassion for truckers who are not American.


:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[superkia]

28. Great post! Brave of you to make such a post but a great one!

[pampango]

133. I realize that you haven't been posting for long, but it hardly

a sign of bravery at DU to bash Mexican trucks and truckers.

You can probably count the number of posts favoring them on one hand.

[stressfulreality]

174. huh? brave to discuss current events?

all DU posts are brave ones :)

[L0oniX]

38. LMAO

"Without Mexican truckers won't we end up paying more for the Chinese-made consumer products we must have?"

[onewholaughsatfools]

42. if you are buying china products you are the one

who is destroying america. point made

[L0oniX]

145. you made no point with me ...I was just lmao at the sarcasm of post #3

duh!

[onewholaughsatfools]

40. having lived in mexico

since bush stole the white house in 2000, I see mexican truck drivers and I can honestly say they drive just as well if not better than any truck driver in the USA, the bottom live is that what we want, safety in trucking. Now when it comes to money it becomes greed and greed alone........the truckers union should just say this and let it be....no one will lose there jobs you have cushion and cushion works when used wisely....... inexpensive trucks are the same trucks america truckers use and they cost more in mexico than the usa.....so stop the bullshit

[OzarkDem]

46. Mexican trucks are not safe; truckers aren't either

They don't have the same safety standards or inspections. They drive in poorly maintained trucks often with worn tires.

But they'll have to pass US safety inspections, you say? Not likely - no doubt those inspection requirements will be loosened or overlooked (budget cuts, etc.)

As for truckers themselves, they may do fine in Mexico, but they will have language barriers here trying to understand signage, maps, etc. Just think of how well the customer service reps you talk to in India or east Asian countries understand English.

And what about log books? How much pressure will these drivers be under to falsify them and drive for hours on end without sleep?

There are many safety problems involved here.

[kurth]

66. And their insurance papers, inspection papers will be FAKE

just like the illegals.

[DCKit]

97. "just like the illegals"

in the back of said trucks. And the drugs in the tanks.

My brother-in-law had to sell his truck a few years back because he coudln't get enough work, so please don't tell me there is a shortage of American truckers.

[davekriss]

110. Ditto for my wife's birth brother (she's adopted)

Not enough work, so he couldn't keep up with the payments and had to sell his truck. Too many American drivers on the road. Therefore there is no need to allow Mexican truckers in the U.S. market except to drive down shipping costs, leaving more profit on the table for the owning class.

Won't this also impact port cities? Any goods that would have to be trucked far-and-wide into the U.S. mainland will be shipped to a Mexican port to allow cheaper Mexican drivers to ship the product? So the impact won't be to truckers alone.

[northzax]

155. they are going to fake insurance and inspection papers

from US states? wow. how easy is it to fake US inspection papers? if it's that easy, why aren't US truckers doing it, to avoid costly inspections and fees? my fake insurance card isn't going to hold up when you actually call GEICO, is it, which, by the way, the DC DMV does when I try to register my car. My inspection, part of my registration, is in a computer the state owns, right? I mean, a cop in New York last spring was able to run my license plates from DC, wouldn't they also be able to check a state registration from, say, Texas? it's pretty simple to type a license plate number into a computer and see if it is vaild, right?

why would anyone take this chance, when the penalty for violation is confiscation of the truck anmd cargo? seems like a heck of a gamble, when the approved trucks are in a database, since they have been approved in advance, and drivers are holding insurance cards issued by a US company, also easy to check.

[NoFederales]

117. Not to mention the vaunted Homeland Security issues--who's to know what is

in those trucks, where they go, etc.

It is also not funny that independents are being driven out of business.... But, unions do serve a purpose when up against the companys.

NoFederales

[ProudDad]

100. The bottom line is that this is another

of many, many, many union busting and anti-USAmerican Worker actions by the repukes and their fellow travelers...

while the have-mores and have-even-mores will get richer thanks to truckers making 1/10 of their USAmerican, Union counterparts...

[theHandpuppet]

132. Exactly!

The Repigs hate unions and union workers. What they really want is a return to a plantation society.

[Felinity]

134. Your lack of understanding of this issue is staggering

Our economy is on its knees, and heaving into the the international toilet bowl. We cannot afford to continue to erode the disposable income of the middle class. This is just one more thing, affecting OTR transportation and our Ports and Port security. Safety is a sufficient reason, but the worse danger in my book is the shipping of even more US dollars outside of our borders.

Even your spending your US dollars by living in Mexico harms our economy. You have a right to do so; I'm not even suggesting you make a change. But you obviously have no grasp of international economics, or the plight of our economy due to the unfair trade advantage we so generously bequeathed to our trading partners like China and Mexico, where the environment is trashed, and workers earn next to nothing, have no benefits, and are often children. Instead of improving their economies, we are dis-improving ours.

The loss of manufacturing industries in the US and the out-sourcing of customer service jobs is creating an aggregation of wealth among a small percentage of "haves"; and causing an inability of average Americans to support their families--Kinda like MEXICO; so I guess you you're comfortable with that.

I don't see any reason to exacerbate a situation that is already critical.

[IsItJustMe]

56. And won't the Mexican truck drivers' do the jobs that our truck drives won't do.

[Occulus]

61. If you want a good hard laugh, read #40

I think he took you seriously!

[Enthusiast]

103. Mexican trucks are death traps! nt

[davekriss]

109. Profit margins for the owning class will rise

But the rest of us will still get to pay current prices.

[pampango]

131. Love sarcasm. It is very effective.

:sarcasm:

It is also an effective way to discourage posts with differing opinions. You make a very convincing argument in favor of your position and then preemptively ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you. (You actually didn't bother with the argument part, but excelled at the ridicule.)

Well done. :sarcasm:

[redqueen]

2. wonder who those teamsters are supporting in the primaries n/t

[democrat2thecore]

19. They haven't made any endorsements yet - surprise!

Remember, we're talking the Teamsters here. They'll wait and be opportunistic. They are a far cry from the AFL-CIO. (See my other post #16 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2970862#2971224 )

[ProudDad]

101. And the AFL-CIO

is a far cry from a REAL Worker's Union like the Wobblies www.iww.org

[democrat2thecore]

147. Ahhhh....

Great minds think alike. Read my thread from early this morning:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1695590&mesg_id=1695590

[onewholaughsatfools]

43. a 100.00 bet says they aren't supporting

Kucinich who is the one they should be supporting

[Lasher]

106. And why exactly should the Teamsters support Kucinich?

What would he do to protect American truckers from the influx of Mexican drivers?

[rucky]

116. "Repeal NAFTA"

and restructure a fair trade policy that includes environmental standards.

[redqueen]

118. Thank you, exactly. n/t

[Robson]

150. I'll guarantee one thing

it ain't going to be Hillary standing against this. After all Bill signed NAFTA.

[1776Forever]

4. People this is VERY important to us - to workers - to safety both on the roads & terror attacks!

These Mexican truckers are going to be coming into this country with unsafe trucks. They make a fraction of what our truckers do here so what is to stop our country from outsourcing to more cheap labor? Let alone the true terrorists attacks that this could be setting up! Come on! This is not something that we can overlook! These trucking companies are run by the big boys of Mexico and here in the U.S. who want to crush even more of our middle class! We have to stand up and shout it out that we are not going to take it any more! AND by the way - don't you think it is odd they are trying to do this with Congress out of session? :grr:

[ret5hd]

6. Terra terra terra!!!

[soothsayer]

5. Goin' up to Canada over the new I-35 bridge that's replacing the one that fell down

and whose designs had already been drawn up. Hmmmm.

[Unca Jim]

108. Oh, stop the conspiracy on that one!

The bridge was slated for replacement, that's why there were plans. My Mom's ex-boyfriend (yes, a complicated relationship, but a legitimate person nonetheless) who was a bridge engineer for MNDOT helped design plans for its eventual replacement in the late eighties. By the way, he thinks it was the de-icing chemicals warming the steel so that it heated and cooled too many times that led to fatigue.

Who can say at this point?

[barb162]

7. I support the Teamsters! n/t

[democrat2thecore]

8. Hoffa's Republican Buddies

This is where Hoffa needs to call in the chips from all his Republican buddies. I detest his support of a party that destroys everything the rest of the Change To Win Federation is trying to do. I was glad the Teamsters left the AFL-CIO (again), they need to be alone in their pursuit of policies that oppose all that organized labor is trying to do. However, with that said, I support the Teamsters opposition to this Mexican truck deal - it's a disaster in the making.

[On the Road]

15. This is What Kills Me

How can the Republicans keep so much support from Teamsters and other union members if they go out of their way to piss in their faces like this?

[democrat2thecore]

16. The saying "It's a Teamster thing" - Here's the scoop

It's true. leaving aside the financial ramifications, the AFL-CIO was glad to see them go (again). Outside of the short Carey years in the nineties, the Teamsters - for decades - have been in the pockets of the Republicans. The rank and file forced an endorsement of Gore in 2000 (after a long delay - many thought Bush would gain the endorsement) and Gephardt in 2004 (Hoffa later campaigned for Kerry, but most think it was because he wanted the Feds off their back). The problem is that Teamster Regional Conferences, and many locals, are controlled by the "old guard" and are solidly Republican. Hoffa is whatever on any given day. Ron Carey, by the way, during his administration, moved the Teamsters toward support of Democrats and had some, but not a lot, of support from his Regional Conferences and many of the locals. The Teamsters, long known for their corruption, was actually getting a housecleaning by Ron Carey when, ironically, HE was charged with wrongdoing - and later mostly vindicated. It has to be remembered the Feds were basically running the union under the corruption agreement of '88 ("monitoring") and they didn't like Carey's cozying up to REAL labor. He led the big strike against UPS and that - as they say - was the end of Carey. He had to go. The old guard was swept back into power by the mystique of the Hoffa name --- and a lot of money. Carey, charged with all kinds of things was never convicted of a single charge brought against him; but his democratization and activist administration was dead.

But again, the current Teamsters leadership, wrong on most things, is absolutely right on this trucking issue. No doubt about it and I applaud them for it.

edit: Correct spelling

[Egalitariat]

49. "Mostly" vindicated?***

nm

[democrat2thecore]

63. Wrong choice of words on my part

Legally, he was completely vindicated.
I believe Carey was railroaded from the word go.

[Vidar]

54. Good for them

[Virginia Dare]

33. Agreed, good points...n/t

[AzDar]

9. This is just a HORRIBLE idea.

A direct result of NAFTA, IIRC.
And again, I say... No more Clintons! No more Bushes!!

[tesla78]

62. More than NAFTA ; NORTH AMERICAN UNION

Look up "North American Union". It looks like the conspiracy nutters were right. ..regarding a one-world governmental power.

[cascadiance]

10. Makes you wonder if them allowing them in is part of Cheney's "new 9/11" plan!

... for declaring martial law, etc. and cancelling the elections! All it would take is one "uninspected" semi that could do a ton of damage!

It won't matter whether people blame it on them for allowing it to happen through these policies. They'll say that the enemies outside are the ones that "invaded us" and that we need to take stern measures to lock down our country then.

[1776Forever]

24. Right on brother - Check out the Blackwater San Diego Barracks - it is coming one way or the other!

:hide:

[Greyhound]

129. ...or perhaps the "Mexican" trucks are to serve as a stop-gap in the event of a

national strike. The truckers do have the ability to bring the nation to its knees in about 72 hours, without truck transport, nothing happens.

[ohio2007]

11. They are not the union group that gave its support/endorsement to Hilliary

DRIVE is the Teamster policy

[democrat2thecore]

68. UTU endorsed Hillary Clinton

United Transportation Union
The story on their endorsement yesterday (August 28th) is here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/28/ap/politics/main3212955.shtml

[OneBlueSky]

12. anyone gonna inspect what's IN all those trucks? . . . n/t

.

[Virginia Dare]

34. Not if Wal-Mart says they don't....n/t

[sandyj999]

13. They Should Be Kept Out!

Are they going to abide by the DOT rules that my trucker husband has to follow? And who will check the manifest? Huge risk not only to American jobs but to American security.

[amandabeech]

14. If the Teamsters lose in court,

I would expect some sort of job action. And I hope that they succeed.

I don't want poorly trained drivers and uninspected trucks rumbling down our already crowded highways.

NAFTA is a disaster, and I wish that the Bushes and the Clintons would slink off the stage and repent for their support of this egregious treaty.

[bbgrunt]

98. It is not only the safety factor--it is a wholesale attempt

to break the back of the teamsters and to push their wages to minimum wage levels. If they lose in court, we should all try to help with a job action.

[amandabeech]

121. I agree.

I take the un-Democratic stand of wanting U.S. jobs for U.S. citizens and legal residents.

I just wish some Democratic candidate would take that stand. I don't much like ageeing with Buchanan, Hunter and Tom "the terror" Tancredo.

[stressfulreality]

17. yay! keep fighting... the last thing we need is the mexican truckers

then i guess we can finally say we are 'mexico'.

[Colorado Progressive]

18. The shrub is such a hypocrite...obviously he doesnt believe terrorists

exist, or else he wouldnt be throwing the borders open even wider

[butterfly77]

26. Oh no, you can't say that ...

or it means you hate immigrants. If you mention anything about closing the border or any thing near it guarding,watching or anything some of the people who post on this board will try to crucify you and they won't listen. It doesn't make sense, I have been saying this every since Bush began talking about he is protecting us, and fighting them over there so that we don't have to fight them over here.

How can he say that when a few years ago there were reports saying that they caught some from the mid east who they think could be Iraqi or Iranian who were caught coming across the border and they were pretending to be hispanic. I can not see how people cannot see this the only reason some like to shut down this is because some are illegal aliens, or they have family members who are... A lot of them don't give a damn about this country, but I do!

[Colorado Progressive]

32. I agree! nt

And why is he giving more of our jobs away too!!!!!! Pretty soon we'll be trying to sneak over the border to Mexico just so we can find a friggin job!

[OnionPatch]

167. I think that is the goal

They want to bring American workers down to size.....where they can walk all over us while we grovel for crumbs along with the rest of the oppressed workers in the world. Unfortunately, too many truck drivers have been helping them along by supporting Republicans. (At least the ones around here are pretty right-wing...I blame hate radio.)

[madrchsod]

20. one way or another

it will get done....

[MindPilot]

21. I live and work within that 25 mile limit from the border

Some of those trucks are scary to be alongside at 60 mph. And hardly a day goes by that you don't hear the words "Sig Alert" and "big rig" in the same sentence on the traffic report.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

59. I got "bumped" by a Mexican truck in San Ysidro, & guess what? No insurance. Still waiting for my $

[robinlynne]

89. I was just thinking that could happen. and bugs and plants can wreak havoc

on the environment when brought in by mistake.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ieoeja]

22. Let me weigh in here as a pro-immigrant and fix-NAFTA guy.

I agree 100% with the Teamsters on this.

The theory behind NAFTA is that it would create jobs. Here we have an instance where it can do just that on both sides of the border. Gotta ship those (previously American made) goods back to the American consumer? Hire a Mexican to haul it up to the border. Then hire an American to haul it the rest of the way. Two new jobs pro-NAFTA types can point to.

Yet, it is the pro-NAFTA types who are probably out there opposing Teamsters on this. Sigh.

Reminder: I said I am "fix" NAFTA, not "pro" NAFTA.

[1776Forever]

27. Let's look at this by the quality of life that we have in this country that so many come here for -

If things like this go on it is going to mean that the good jobs that people come here for are going to be gone and we are all going to be Rich or Poor! I think you are right on about fixing NAFTA - if that is possible! They all ready do have the Mexican truckers coming up to the US boarder to drop off their goods and then the US trucks take them to their US destinations. This is just going to be a disaster if they allow the Mexican trucks to come into our country for so many reasons.

[Virginia Dare]

36. Not to mention...

there are too many trucks on the road right now as it is. Having just traveled 650 miles of interstate highway, I can tell you, it's a jungle out there.

[OzarkDem]

50. Cheaper wages shift more to trucks from rail

If you want less congestion, better to help the rail industry stay competitive and ship freight the safest, most fuel efficient and less polluting way.

This is just another example of the race to the bottom. Corporations see the cost of trucking rising due to higher fuel costs and their solution is to find a source of even cheaper labor to make up the cost.

[Virginia Dare]

51. It seemed like every tenth truck or so had Wal-Mart on it too...n/t

[Divine Discontent]

23. mexican nationals driving my roadways????

I don't THINK so! this is HORRIBLE.

another reason to call your congresscritter - they are constantly trying to kill the lower middle class! having tens of thousands of mexican truckers on our roads will not only increase disastrous accidents from poor drivers & faulty equipment, but it will increase crime, and lower the salary structure of American workers.

damn b*sh!

[Bitwit1234]

25. Bush is trying to break the union and the middle class you can see this.

First most of the electronic jobs, then the customer service jobs, manufacturing jobs now he is trying to bust all the unions. Why is he (the republicans) doing this to make sure there are only two classes, the poor, too poor to support the democrat candidates. And the rich and the corporations who support the republicans. They want to take over this country permanently. The seed was planted by bush's evil, greedy grandfather Prescott Bush when he tried to overthrow the government in the 1930's and bush is accomplishing it now. This country will not stand for 16 more months. bush and cheney have to be impeached, removed from office or arrested or something, or we can kiss the USA goodbye.

[sadiesworld]

29. First, we'll see the end of over-the-road trucking as one of

the last decent paying "unskilled" jobs in this country. Then we'll see most of those union longshoremen disappear as the super corridor bypasses many traditional shipping routes.

Maybe some dems will speak up? Haha.

Maybe we could organize something here at DU? Haha.

[Divine Discontent]

30. ouch!

that last line is so true in some ways. I'm not referencing (of course not!) the people who have organized events. But it's true. Sometimes I feel when anyone in a certain area tries to organize or get people involved or to write and call - little is done - maybe there could be a clicker button on the side that says "I did what was asked" and you click it to show you called/wrote/went somewhere about an issue.

I WOULD LOVE to have DU put out a late September 08 call to action, one year ahead, that we plan way ahead, and we organize in the top 100 cities nationally (roughly), where we hold campaign signs for the DEM candidate, and ones criticizing the corporate loving Repub and DU signs... that'd be awesome, and we do it all on the same day - like September 27th 2008.

that'd be awesome...

[Omaha Steve]

31. I have a B license with air and tank endorsement

While I was fighting my labor case earlier this year, I drove a yard waste truck. I used to drive a 3500 gallon gas tanker about 15 years ago. The oil company told us which way to run our routes each day to avoid the DOT. If American's can get around the law on a rolling bomb, I'm sure a Mexican truck can too.

[sarcasmo]

35. Kick.

[Triana]

37. Is there anything WE can do to stop this crap?

Besides call/write congress critters?

This is VERY SCARY.

[onewholaughsatfools]

41. so you are screared

sounds like bush won, once again

[LSK]

39. this is really happening? I thought this was a hoax?

:wtf:

[High Plains]

44. Hmmm...can American truckers drive in Mexico?

What about Canadian truckers? Can they drive in the US?

[littlebit]

65. Americans can't deliver in Mexico

but Canadians can drive in the US. They can deliver and then pick up a load and go back to Canada but they can not pick up in the US and deliver in the US.

[A HERETIC I AM]

67. And neither will the Mexican truckers...

Americans can't deliver in Mexico but Canadians can drive in the US. They can deliver and then pick up a load and go back to Canada but they can not pick up in the US and deliver in the US.

Actually this agreement with Mexico is reciprocal. There will be American trucks allowed to deliver into Mexico. Your point about Canadian truckers in the US is also reciprocal and American truckers have exactly the same privileges north of the border. There is no Cabotage for either American or Canadian truckers and there won't be for Mexican truckers either.

There is so much hysteria surrounding this subject it is amazing.

"MEXICAN TRUCKS?!? On MY roadways?!? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!"

Give me a break.

[Ikonoklast]

76. You are completely wrong.

Cabotage laws are in place for both Canadian and U.S trucking firms. You must proceed DIRECTLY to the receiver, make your delivery, then proceed DIRECTLY to the shipper for a return load to the country of origin, or return empty. You must take the most direct route, and not go out-of-route for any reason.

There is no provision in current law that lets a foreign-based carrier pick up and deliver within the national borders of the neighboring country. It is a federal violation in both countries.

The enforcement of these laws in this country are lax; in Canada if they catch you in violation you are in deep doo-doo. U.S. carriers' paperwork is routinely inspected by Canadian provincial and federal officials. God help you if they are not all in order. If they catch you in violation of the cabotage rules, expect big fines and your company will be barred from crossing the border and doing business in Canada.

I ran across the Canadian border for five years, on almost a daily basis. I am well acquainted with U.S. and Canadian law pertaining to cross-border traffic, and the penalties for violating NAFTA regs.

The problem with Mexican trucks violating cabotage laws has the potential to be enormous. The U.S. does not have the capacity to inspect even a minute percentage of the trucks that will cross the border, and once in the U.S., there is virtually no way to track them once inside this country.

There is no reciprocity in the Mexican/U.S. border crossing regarding commercial drivers. Mexican nationals can come into this country with a minimal amount of identity verification, if I cross into in a U.S. base-plated commercial vehicle, Mexico demands a passport or denies entry.

Mexican nationals do not have to show a passport to drive a commercial vehicle in this country. They are protecting their commercial traffic lanes inside Mexico.

[A HERETIC I AM]

80. Sorry pal, but i am not wrong. You just have the definition wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabotage

Cabotage is the transport of goods or passengers between two points in the same country.

In my post above i said;

There is no Cabotage for either American or Canadian truckers and there won't be for Mexican truckers either

And i have hauled into and out of Canada as well. I have crossed the Ambassador bridge dozens of times a well as Port Huron/Sarnia, Blaine, WA. and Niagara. I have hauled general freight, used cars, new cars and Motor Racing transporters across.

You aren't the only one on this board with either trucking or cross border experience. I drove over the road for 22 years and have over 1.5 million miles of accident free driving in my back pocket.

The rest of your post i am not going to argue with. This subject has been beaten to death for months now and the amount of misinformation and disinformation is enormous. There are plenty of articles to back up every word you wrote and there are plenty of facts to shoot holes in each point. So why bother.

[Ikonoklast]

85. There is only one definition of Cabotage in NAFTA

The rules pertaining to pick-up and delivery are spelled out. Distinctly.

Under NAFTA, not Wikipedia.

The Federal governments of Canada and the U.S. would disagree with you.

From the FMCSA website:

A driver bringing goods from Canada or Mexico may transport those goods to one or several locations in the United States, and may pick up goods from one or several U.S. locations for delivery to Canada or Mexico, but the driver may not load, haul, or deliver a cargo that is both picked up and dropped off at a destination within the United States.

[A HERETIC I AM]

87. Does it or does it not refer to transport of goods within a country?

Fine. You have a problem with Wikipedia. No worries. Here is Merriam Webster;
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/cabotage

Etymology: French, from caboter to sail along the coast
1 : trade or transport in coastal waters or airspace or between two points within a country
2 : the right to engage in cabotage

How about the Princeton Law Library?
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=cabotage&sub=Search+WordNet&o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&h=00000

cabotage (the exclusive right of a country to control the air traffic within its borders)

How about according to the Federal Aviation Administration?
https://www.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/cabotage.htm

Cabotage - The Standard Dictionary of the English language defines cabotage (for flight purposes) as "air transport of passengers and goods within the same national territory.

The Federal Government of Canada would not disagree with my understanding of the law as it pertains to an American trucker hauling freight inside Canada. I understand what it is. I know it is illegal. I understand the rules. How is it i came to this understanding? I HAD TO FOLLOW THEM WHEN I DROVE INTO CANADA! OK? You aren't talking to a damned neophyte here.

Again, There is no cabotage for American Truckers in Canada or Canadian truckers in the US. The Cabotage laws are in place, yes, and they prohibit it.

OK? Is that language clear enough for you, or shall we beat this horse until the wee hours?

[Ikonoklast]

92. Then you agree with me

Thank you.

I stated that cabotage was prohibited by NAFTA, and that there was a legitimate concern that those laws would be violated by Mexican trucking firms with impunity, as there is no real enforcement mechanism in place in this country.

It is a very serious issue, and no one has come up with a reasonable answer to these concerns.

I have never heard any shipper or receiver in this country ask about the nationality of the carrier, or driver. All they care about is getting their goods moved at the absolute cheapest rate.

I never accused you of being a noob, or not knowing your business. I expect the same courtesy.

I have 1.1 million miles on this tractor alone.
My second one I owned. It went over the border every day for four years.
Not even a parking ticket.

But I was accused by a Canadian carrier of violating cabotage rules, because after dropping a loaded trailer, I was asked to spot one of our other loaded trailers in an inbound door, before hooking to an empty rack trailer to return stateside. I said sure, I didn't think it was a problem as I wasn't leaving the property with it.

Boy, was I wrong. They considered it two different deliveries, our company got a real nasty letter, and I got off with a warning.

It was a yard switcher paid by the move, employed by a Canadian firm, and he didn't want to lose work to an American driver.

Can't say that I blame him. I feel the same way.


On edit: I think the part that you misinterpreted wasn't my disagreeing about cabotage, but being wrong about reciprocity. There is a protectionist sentiment in Mexico about letting U.S. carriers operate inside Mexico, and they are unwilling to change the passport requirement for inbound U.S. drivers, while there is no such requirement stateside for Mexican nationals.

This issue is at an impasse, and the Mexican government is dragging their feet on it. It is not a level playing field yet.

[littlebit]

86. You are exactly right

I was trying to type to fast and couldn't remember the term. I hauled car parts from Detroit over to the Crysler plant Winsor and empty racks back for several years. One question though. When did it become legal for US trucks to deliver in Mexico? I haven't been in the trucking industry for a few years. Last I heard US companies didn't cross the Mexican border. Personally I don't have much of a problem with it. If it is done right.

[A HERETIC I AM]

88. They aren't. Yet.

But there will be reciprocity, regardless of the protestations to the contrary by the poster above.

The first Mexican trucks to be authorized under the program will begin traveling beyond U.S. border areas once the initial in-person safety inspections are done and proof-of-insurance verified. Secretary Peters noted that with the announcement of the program, Mexico will begin to consider applications from U.S. trucking firms for licensing rights to operate within Mexico. Approximately 100 U.S. operators would be licensed by Mexico for cross-border operations.

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/cbtsip/dot2107.htm

In the past, an operator of a Tractor Trailer did indeed have to jump through several hoops to get a loaded truck into Mexico but Motor Racing operations have been doing it for years. Indy Car and other racing organizations have moved heavy trucks into Mexico in the past. Granted, they were not delivering freight, but it was still possible to acquire the permitting.

[1776Forever]

72. I listen to a lot of talk radio & I heard most US truckers don't think it's safe enough in Mex

I also heard there are trucks already here from Mexico - I don't know exactly how they get here, but I also heard there are Canadian trucks here too with some immigrant drivers that can't speak english also. I am not against immigrants as 99% of us here came from somewhere else, but at the least they should be able to speak a few words of english or have access to someone that can interpret for them.

Here is an article on that which mentions the North American Free Trade Agreement a precursor for the North American Alliance that is being talked about making the United States, Mexico and Canada all one country like the EU Alliance:

Truckers must talk English
By MIGUEL TIMOSHENKOV and VICENTE RANGEL, LAREDO MORNING TIMES
08/26/2007

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18750357&BRD=2290&PAG=461&dept_id=569392&rfi=6

The law requiring that Mexican truckers coming into the United States speak English has been on the books for years, but it has taken on renewed significance with the coming implementation of a new provision that will allow up to 100 Mexican carriers to go beyond the border zone. It also will allow up to 100 U.S. carriers to go deep into Mexico with their loads.

While many international trade supporters praise the move as long overdue and a natural outgrowth of the North American Free Trade Agreement, the plan has many critics, including labor leaders and some U.S. transportation companies who fear the Mexican trucks will be unsafe and create unnecessary risks on U.S. highways.

Nevertheless, a demonstration project is set to begin within a few weeks, allowing Mexican carriers that have passed the required safety audit to take their trucks onto U.S. roads.

[robinlynne]

90. If anyone drives in mexico without buying mexican insurance the police take your car.

[northzax]

151. and if you drive a foreign registered car in the US

without insurance...they hold your car until you provide proof of insurance. the difference? it's a lot easier to bribe a Mexican police officer than a US State Trooper (trust me, I bought my way out of a DUI arrest in Mexico for $100 a decade ago, think I could give a Texas State Trooper a c-note to get out of it?)

[rateyes]

45. I wouldn't be where I am today

had it not been for the Teamster's Union. My dad worked on the loading dock of the old Mason-Dixon trucking lines company. My mom worked in the corporate office there. Strikes were fun times in my household! My mom had to go to work and see my dad walking the picket line.

I'm with the Teamsters on this one. No doubt about it.

[shadowknows69]

47. Go Teamsters

It's fucking on baby. Bush is trying to dismantle this country piece by piece. Put the barriacades across the highway and bring it on.

[upi402]

48. They supported Bush I, and NOW they want to block something?

sheez!

That said, I support the boneheads 100%

[Virginia Dare]

53. They partially made the bed they're laying in for sure...

but like you said, we all need to support them on this.

[1776Forever]

73. A funny thing is happening with this issue I never thought I would be on Phyllis Schlafly side but

on this one I am. This may be the one that brings us together in an alliance to stop this insanity. Money, greed and pure criminal actions are going to break the camel's back. I don't know where this is going but I know it is going to be something that will finally make a lot of people wake up.

Here is a link to Phyllis Schlafly's website if you want to see what is going on with some of the Repub's on this one:

http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2007/mar07/07-03-14.html

(Notice she gives Clinton a good comment & also she mentions April when this was suppose to happen but was stopped by the Teamsters and other trucking groups)

It is painful for me to note that the Bush Administration is less protective of U.S. interests than the late, unlamented Clinton Administration. To his credit, Clinton kept Mexican trucks off our highways except for a 25-mile commercial zone immediately north of the border.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary E. Peters went to El Paso to make the announcement that for the first time, starting in April, 100 Mexican trucking companies will be allowed to make deliveries anywhere in the United States, and she put no limit on the number of trucks the 100 companies can operate. This is a major step toward Bush's vision of a North American community....

Maybe Secretary Chertoff will give us "virtual" safety standards like the "virtual fence" he sometimes talks about. At the present time, only about two percent of trucks coming across the border are inspected, so the drug dealers just consider it a cost of doing business that a few of their illegal loads will be caught.

U.S. truck drivers must meet strict requirements that include enforcement of hours, regular physicals, age limits, and drug and alcohol tests. We have no way of telling how many hours Mexican truck drivers have been on the road before they reach our border inspectors.

Mexico has no limits on how many hours a driver can drive a truck, and no credible drug testing of drivers. The Mexican trucking industry, with few exceptions, has never successfully been monitored, much less supervised.

[alarimer]

52. A few years ago there was a spill of a chemical called furfural

in Brownsville, TX. This is a very toxic chemical, though it degrades easily in sunlight. It turns out that the truck and the driver were from Mexico, delivering its load to Texas. And the truck driver was 16 years old. Mexican truckers have operated for a long time in the border area. Perhaps someone can find some statistics on their safety there. I suspect they are not as safe, simply because they do not have to adhere to the same standards for the vehicles and the drivers.

[IsItJustMe]

55. What is sad is that alot of those truckers probably voted for the idiot who is trying his damndest

to destroy the working class of this coutry. A big 10/4.

[Doremus]

57. Fuck the Repukes and their union busting.

Two with one stone:

Teamsters truckers
and
Longshoremen


They're really getting a guffaw watching their carefully laid plans come to fruition ... while the rest of us debate the pros and cons they're making it happen.

This shit gets old. :puke:

[Jazzgirl]

58. I call bullshit.

They've been coming across the border. On the way to work one morning a few weeks ago I saw a semi that almost rear-ended me with one headlight. I don't remember seeing any American semi's with one headlight and thought it was probably from Mexico. I looked up after I opened my eyes and saw the Mexican license plate. He drove like an idiot. It was very scary.....

[williesgirl]

60. This must be stopped for soooooo many reasons. rec'd

[rockymountaindem]

64. Didn't the Democrats in Congress already block this a couple months ago?

I thought I read something about that but the article doesn't say anything about it.

[KoKo]

70. Yes....folks were cheering about it here on DU...Bush must have vetoed it and

done a Signing Statement overiding Congress. :shrug: Amazing...

[1776Forever]

74. Yes it was stopped in April and then the Transportation Dept. said they were going ahead now!

Labor Day! Check out my other posts for more interesting info.

[PatSeg]

69. More Bushite insanity!!!

"Supporters of the plan say letting more Mexican trucks on U.S. highways will save American consumers hundreds of millions of dollars."

Where is the logic? Take away more American jobs and they can't afford to buy anything! Consumers without $$$ aren't consumers anymore.

Sadly, it will take a disaster to wake these people up. How are these drivers being tested? Can they read our road signs? I can't drive on our roads without a valid state issued driver's license, but THEY can? Will this insanity ever end?

You know, they picked the wrong people to mess with. Truckers don't just roll over and play dead.

[1776Forever]

75. Amen Brother! It might get interesting out there - like the ole wild west!!!!!!!

:hurts:

[PatSeg]

77. I remember years ago

during a strike, truckers would stand on overpasses and drop concrete blocks on passing trucks. I don't condone that kind of dangerous protest, but I'll tell you, these guys are tough and they WILL fight back.

[amandabeech]

122. In Ohio, I believe that the preferred job action on the overpasses

involved firearms to the passenger sides.

[PatSeg]

125. Wow, I don't remember that!

But it was a long time ago. Strikes can get really violent. I remember the firefighters strike in Chicago. It was really a nasty affair.

[amandabeech]

136. I remember a few reported incidents of sniping from overpasses.

This would have been late '70s or maybe '80 or '81.

[PatSeg]

146. Yeah, that sounds like the time frame I was thinking of

when they dropped concrete blocks on trucks.

The Chicago firefighters strike got out of hand too. The few paramedics who wouldn't stop taking runs had to hide their ambulances, so they wouldn't get vandalized. They had to hide their own vehicles as well. That was one strike that was unconscionable. When there was a fire or a medical emergency, no one showed up!

[onewholaughsatfools]

83. it seems it's your insanity

americans don't have to purchase products from china, of course mexican truckers drive the same trucks as american tuckers, they have to pass test and prove themselves worthy as american truckers, of course they can read road signs, the signs in mexico are not that different from the usa and as far as a valid state issued drivers license, I don't have one I have a international drivers license. You put down the mexicans, I honor them for their hard word dedication to their employees, their families and their motivation. You guys are just looking at your wallets and seeing money disappear shame on you............for buying commie products to begin with.........

[PatSeg]

94. Not putting down Mexicans

and I don't think anyone here is doing that. If they are taking work from U.S. truckers, then that is an issue. Our middle class is going down the tubes and quite frankly I don't trust our government or the Mexican government in this matter.

As for buying merchandise "Made in China", I have made an effort to avoid such products, but it is getting more and more difficult.

[northzax]

152. um, what about all the people

making blanket statements that Mexican truck drivers are unsafe?

[1776Forever]

105. With all due respect - we are not on the drivers - its the owners that are going to get rich while

more wages in this country are cut and the good jobs that people come here for are targeted! It is going to give someone who wants to do us harm, or even those that plan to do us harm an easy way to get their plans going. NO one here is against good hard working people. I have read where only 2% of the cargo is checked. What does that tell you?

[AzDar]

124. My BushSpeak to English Dictionary translates this as: 'Mexican trucks

on U.S. highways will save CORPORATIONS hundreds of millions of dollars.'
And it IS insanity....

[SayWhatYo]

71. Oh it's another one of those threads in which the content mirrors the freerepublic

Not saying the majority opinion is wrong or anything, just saying it's an observation. There was something else a few months ago that had similar results.... I view it as meaning that this admin is pissing everyone off, but many republicans are too stupid to realize they need to do something... Then again, I have no doubts in my mind that a democrat will win the next election by a landslide(read as, "many republicans will vote democratic in '08")

*on more reading of freerepublic, there is far more stupdity and ignorance there then their is here... Of course we all know that, right?

[rhett o rick]

78. So dear HRC supporters, how does HRC weigh in on this issue???

Doesn't she support CAFTA, NAFTA, and FAFTA??? FAFTA (FUCK ALL AMERICAN WORKERS) yeah so the letters don't match so sue me.
the point is does Hillery support American workers or not? Here is a good place to put her feet to the fire. Does HRC support letting Mexican trucks into the US of A without any regulations???? Well???

[northzax]

153. well, I can't say for certain

but I would suppose she supports, given her past history, allowing them into the country with regulations, like this does. Personally, I don't think anyone darker than me driving any sort of a truck, especially people who can't speak the King's English. oh sorry, from reading the rest of this thread I thought this was free republic.

read the regulations. seriously, read them. but, based on the fact that you haven't read them, allow me to summarize for you. In order to leave the buffer zone currently in place, trucking companies would have to apply for permission. At the border, they would have to demonstrate that the truck in question met all the same regulations that a US truck would have to meet, including registration and inspection standards in any relevant state (including emissions). Drivers would need full passports for immigration purposes, and, perhaps giving the greatest difficulty, must have the same insurance as US based truckers, from a US trucking company. Under federal law, foreign vehicles are subject to impoundment if they fail to meet safety or insurance standards. oh, and if you have an outstanding traffic violation, that can lead to impoundment as well. you may have noticed, we don't export a lot of stuff to Mexico, and given that, how many trucks are going to take a load to Detroit, say, and make the trip back empty? seems like a loser to me.

oh, by the way: number of US companies currently insuring Mexican trucks: zero. current number of companies who have permission from USDOT to begin driving in the US on September 1: zero.

if you want to make a jobs argument from a protectionist standpoint, that's one thing. arguing about safety and bad dirving is simply not knowing the facts.

[Doremus]

158. I recognize union busting when I see it. Too bad more of us aren't able to.

This issue has NOTHING to do with skin tone, nor the Free Republic. If you think some quaint "regulations" are going to stop the fascists from following through with this, you are apparently far more trusting than I or you've been asleep the last 6 years.

There is one purpose for this smarmy idea: union busting. The greedy SOBCEOs are salivating at the mere thought of breaking the Teamsters AND Longshoremen with one superhighway and a stacked deck.

The hard working men and women who comprise organized labor in this country have historically done more to support the Democratic party than probably any other group. As always, the current Dem candidates are falling all over themselves to bag union endorsements and the foot soldiers that come with them.

Glad to hear so many are so eager to stand up for unions now, in their time of need.

To paraphrase someone far more poignant than I:

They came for the manufacturing jobs and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a factory worker.
They came for the service jobs and I didn't speak out because I didn't work in the service industry.
They came for the union jobs and I didn't speak out because I'm not in a union.
They came for my job and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[northzax]

160. you did not just cite Martin Niemöller on this did you?

ding ding ding! Godwin's Law strikes again! how fucking distasteful.

personally, if I were worried about union busting in the ports, I would be much more concerned about automation. After all, US ports, especially on the west coast, are running at pretty much capacity, despite having fewer employees than ever. And it's amazing how many people who supposedly are trying to support the longshoremen also complain vociferously about imports from Asia that provide the jobs for those same longshoremen. Ironic, ain't it?

[Doremus]

169. I'll tell you what I find distasteful.

Democrats that just l-u-u-u-u-u-u-v unions come election time then disappear into the ether. Or worse, actively support union busting so as not to offend the scabs.

You want ironic? How about the act of supporting the demise of a significant voting bloc of your own party? The stretches in logic are worthy of a medal in contortionism if nothing else. The ports are automated, we might as well shitcan the Teamsters and Longshoremen ... If it wasn't so fucking pathetic it'd be a laugh riot.

[northzax]

171. don't expect me to shed crocodile tears for the Teamsters

a group that is barely democratic, if at all, and one based on an envrionmentally destructive industry, if we can find more efficient ways to move goods than long haul trucking, I have no problem with that, rail is better anyway. (for delivery from the terminus to the end station, you can't beat trucks, but from the port to the hearland? rail.)

I understand that there are many people for whom protection of jobs is paramount. I am not one of them. I am certainly not on the side of those who use nativism and fear to argue against this. why shouldn't a Mexican trucker, with a CDL equivalent, US insurance and US registration, including inspection and emissions, be allowed to make a delivery in the US? Canadians as well. if we are picking a union to support, why is it the Teamsters and not BLET? How is complaining about imports and asking for greater restrictions on imports from China (as many people on this board do, not neccesarily you) supporting the Longshoremen, who's job is based on those imports?

it's your catch-22, isn't it? Buy American: Put a Longshoreman out of work! complicated, no?

[Doremus]

172. Not at all. Longshoremen load boats too. Or should I say the "machines" do. lol

Nativism and fear ...

Fear of what? The reality that unchecked greed is driving organized labor and workers' rights into the ground? Or that some Dems enthusiastically cheer it? The answer is yes on both counts.

The nativism thing is your hangup, not mine, although it would be nice if we actually still made anything here to "Buy American."

[rhett o rick]

162. I will be glad to read these regulations. Where did you say i can find them??

[northzax]

163. here are some summaries

the DOT press release: http://www.dot.gov/affairs/cbtsip/dot2107.htm

and here is the amended FMCSA regulation governing the application process for companies wishing to conduct cross-border operations outside the commerical buffer zone: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/español/english/pdfs/part_365.htm

and here are the appropriate Federal rules and regulations for commercial motor carriers in the United States which must be met as described in the FMCSA regulation listed above: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/rules-regulations.htm

[rhett o rick]

166. Thank you very much for the summaries and links. Sorry but my rule of

thumb is that if BushCorp is for it, it has to be disaster somehow. And read the DOT statement almost made me gag.

“Safety is the number one priority and strict U.S. safety standards won’t change,” Secretary Gutierrez continued. “We will continue to work closely with President Calderon and his administration on ways we can further enhance the commerce of our countries and the competitiveness of our hemisphere without sacrificing safety or security.”

I believe I read somewhere that after this plan was initiated American trucking companies bought up controlling interests in the so called "Mexican trucking companies".

I intend to research this further.

[1776Forever]

79. Mexican customs to be stationed in Kansas City - Check this out

New 'inland port' in heartland part of international plan that bypasses unions

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/mexican_customs_stationed_kansas_city.htm

World Net Daily | June 21 2006

A Mexican customs office is being built in the U.S. heartland as part of a newly designed "inland port" facility that links with a Mexican seaport, an official in Kansas City confirms. (Called the Kansas City SmartPort http://www.kcsmartport.com/ )

Tasha Hammes of the Kansas City Area Development Council wrote to author and WND columnist Jerome Corsi to correct some details of a column on the subject, but she affirmed that a key purpose of the Kansas City Inland Port, or SmartPort, will be to facilitate the movement of containers from the Far East through the Mexican port at Lazaro Cardenas rather that the West Coast ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.

Corsi also had written that Kansas City Southern had acquired Mexican railroads to create a "NAFTA Railroad" that would link Lazaro Cardenas to the U.S. for container transport.

Hammes explained that with American consumption of goods from the Far East increasing, U.S. coastal ports are at capacity.....

Shipments will be pre-screened in Southeast Asia, and the shipper will send advance notification to Mexican and American Customs with the corresponding ''pre-clearance'' information on the cargo. Upon arrival in Mexico, containers will pass through multiple X-ray and gamma ray screenings, allowing any containers with anomalies to quickly be removed for further inspection.

Container shipments will be tracked using intelligent transportation systems, or ITS, that could include global positioning systems or radio frequency identification systems, and monitored on their way to inland trade-processing centers in Kansas City and elsewhere in the United States.

As the Kansas City SmartPort website boasts: ''Kansas City offers the opportunity for sealed cargo containers to travel to Mexican port cities with virtually no border delays. It will streamline shipments from Asia and cut the time and labor costs associated with shipping through the congested ports on the West Coast.''


......................

Is this where the trucks are headed for?

[rucky]

120. We need to build a BIGGER FENCE! n/t

[northzax]

154. well, I guess the trucks could drive from Mexico

drop off a load at the terminal, have it shipped by train back to Lazaro Cardenas and onto a boat, or pick up a load from the train terminus and drive it back to Mexico, but it seems it would be cheaper and easier to simply not put it on the train in the first place.

[badgervan]

81. Good

too much of this "bottom line" crap going on. Let's return to Americans doing American jobs for a livable wage.

[bleedingheart]

82. The Teamsters forgot who buttered their bread...they voted GOP

they courted the GOP...and their membership voted in favor of gun rights....instead of their own freaking jobs...

now the GOP and the dipshits in the DLC are going to open up the borders to non-union truckers from another country that will work for a fraction of what a teamster trucker makes....

all I can say is DUH!


Here they are endorsing a republican

http://electtimmurphy.com/endorsements.htm

as I also recall they endorsed Reagan and Bush Sr....

and I can't find who the endorsed in 2000...but I know that they were courting ole George Jr. ...

[democrat2thecore]

93. See my post #15 --- nt

[amandabeech]

119. Yes, but have we Dems been better on jobs and trade?

I haven't seen much difference between the two parties on those issues in the recent past.

Too many of our candidates feed from the same corporate trough that the Pubbies do.

[bleedingheart]

123. no we haven't...the entire NAFTA ordeal is a perfect example.

[amandabeech]

135. I agree. Do you see any Dem candidate pulling his/her head

from the trought and actually paying attention to the average person's situation?

I think that Edwards and Kucinich go part of the way, but I'm not completely satisfied.

[bleedingheart]

138. The problem is that it can't be just one or two democrats

and that is why even with Edwards and Kucinich and their populist messages, most of our candidates are so far removed from what the average individual goes through that they don't seem to know how their votes impact the middle class and poor Americans...

Until we start electing more average folks to congress...I don't see it changing much.

[amandabeech]

139. Most folks who start out average get co-opted.

I used to be a union-side labor lawyer. My colleagues had never had any contact with actual people who worked for a living. I grew up around blue-collar types. One of the so-called liberals in the law firm actually harassed me based on my religious, ethnic and regional background. Needless to say, I didn't last long, and the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

Meanwhile, the AFL-CIO and the ACLU have sued Homeland Security to stop the social security number match practice that helps jobs go to citizens and legal residents. I wonder how your average steel worker or auto worker thinks about that. If I were one of them, I wouldn't want my dues going to support that lawsuit.

[Kolesar]

141. Democrats killed bush's authority for "fast track" trade deal negotiation authority

Public opinion has finally solidified on this issue. I think that Americans are naturally skeptical of "free trade". They see factory closings and blame it on NAFTA and China, whether that was the cause or not. No complaint here.

[pingzing58]

84. The States refused to give the go ahead to the Super Highway but here come the trucks. Mexican

company owners of import and export businesses and transport will get even richer now. The richest man in the world, a billionaire, of course, is Mexican. Mexico has more millionaires than Switzerland as reported recently. Things are looking up for the wealthy in Mexico thanks to NAFTA and CAFTA. As they are here in the good ole US of A! :sarcasm:

[SHRED]

91. I am proud to be a Teamster

At times like these:
http://www.teamster.org/07news/nr_070817_2.asp

Teamster Local 911
http://www.teamsters911.com/

[democrat2thecore]

95. I hope you keep fighting

Keep fighting on this issue and - I hope you fight for progressive labor policies within your own Teamsters local. They need another dose of good old labor fight - and back the people who actually support organized labor!

Good luck!!!

[othermeans]

96. All I can say is KUCINICH nt

[olddad56]

99. This is a ploy but the Bushie....

They want to make the 2008 election about immigration and jobs.

[Robson]

149. It will include immigration and jobs....that I promise you.

The political parties can spin it anyway they want.....2008 will have a huge component that includes immigration and jobs as it should. If the Democrats wish to put their head in the sand on this it will be at the Party's peril.

[ProudDad]

102. PS: this is also part of the effort to cut the UNION ports

of Seattle, Oakland and Los Angeles out of the import business...

Dog knows I hate fucking wal-mart (Mall-Wart) and their fucking low-grade crap and the way they fucked over Main Street -- but this is just more of the same...

Screw USAmerican Workers...and not just the Teamsters...

[MUSTANG_2004]

170. Excellent point. Hadn't thought about the incentive

to switch port of entry to Mexico, now that the Mexican trucks can haul directly to the US destination.

[JohnnyRingo]

104. Here's one from 1996: "Teamsters vs Texas Gov Buxh"

Copyright Lubbock Avalanche-Journal 1996

Bush NAFTA position blasted by Teamsters

FORT WORTH (AP) - The Teamsters Union has set its sights on Gov. George W. Bush over his support for lifting a moratorium on Mexican freight trucks in Texas and other southwestern states.

At issue is a provision in the North American Free Trade Agreement that allows Mexican trucks to haul goods anywhere in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California.

Under NAFTA, the trucks were to be allowed into the region in December 1995 and anywhere in the United States after 2000.

But implementation was delayed a year ago by the Transportation Department amid concerns that the trucks didn't meet safety and weight requirements.

Transportation Department spokesman Bill Schulz said last week that the United States and Mexico are attempting to reach an agreement on the safety issues, but he was unsure when the moratorium might be lifted.

Nonetheless, the Teamsters have renewed their attack on Bush, saying his support for the provision will destroy Texas jobs and endanger highway safety.

Continued here:
http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/120196/bush.htm

I'd say it's been a pet project of his for some time now.

[treestar]

107. Do American trucks ever go through other countries?

The response to this thread discounts that possibility entirely.

It would be OK if other countries denied American trucks any passage, right? And whichever Americans lose their jobs due to that, it's OK?

It's not necessarily good to try to contain all economic activity within individual countries, especially in this century. We all trade.

As for the trucks being "dangerous" there is no proof here that they won't have to comply with high falutin' American standards to get in. This is just one of those assumptions made about Mexico, as if everything they do is inferior.

This is a lot of knee-jerk emotionalism without facts. It's probably not going to hurt anything or anybody. Meanwhile, back in Iraq . . . And up on the hill, the Bill of Rights . . . .

[1776Forever]

111. Links - and your comment of high falutin' US standards being overlooked like in China is good thing?

This is real stuff here - jobs will be lost - safety is an issue ask the U.S. truckers who have to interact with these unsafe and in most cases uninsured trucks.

Here is a good link to start with - do your own searching on the net to find more:

Mexican customs to be stationed in Kansas City
New 'inland port' in heartland part of international plan that bypasses unions

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/mexican_customs_stationed_kansas_city.htm

"Kansas City offers the opportunity for sealed cargo containers to travel to Mexican port cities with virtually no border delays. It will streamline shipments from Asia and cut the time and labor costs associated with shipping through the congested ports on the West Coast."

Corsi contends a main purpose of opening Lazaro Cardenas to receive a greater volume of containers from the Far East and linking it with the planned NAFTA Super-Corridor and Kansas City SmartPort is to reduce labor costs.

Longshoremen would not be employed at the port of Lazaro Cardenas, and, in Mexico, the employees of Kansas City Southern would not be United Transportation Union workers.

To the extent that Mexican trucks become involved in the operation, it would mean Teamster Union drivers would not be employed in the operation.

........................

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20070818-9999-1b18mextruck.html

Agency backs opening border to long-haul Mexican trucks

By Paul M. Krawzak
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
August 18, 2007

The agency responded to critics' worries that Mexican truck drivers, unlike their American counterparts, are not required to comply with rules limiting their driving time or mandating drug and alcohol testing, among other issues.

.....Read the comments on the bottom of this article.

....................

You may not care about that because it isn't your job, but remember this means even more middle class jobs being lost and more power to the rich in this country, just like in Mexico. Do you know the wealthiest man in the world lives in Mexico?

Here try this for size:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/03/news/international/carlosslim.fortune/

Carlos Slim, the richest man in the world
The son of a Mexico City shopkeeper has built a staggering $59 billion fortune. Fortune's Stephanie Mehta tells the inside story of how he made it to the top.
By Stephanie N. Mehta, Fortune senior writer
August 20 2007:

The Slims' three main foundations have roughly $4 billion today, and they've pledged at least another $6 billion over the next several years. Among the causes: institutes for health and education, each seeded with $500 million to start. Slim has been a big backer of Nicholas Negroponte's One Laptop Per Child initiative, and Bill Clinton recently convinced Slim to donate at least $100 million to his foundation's efforts to reduce poverty in Latin America. He also has invested heavily in refurbishing Mexico City's Centro histórico, or downtown. That said, the family tends to embrace economic development rather than donations as a way of eradicating poverty. "I think the best way to help people is not to give them money but to give them a job," says Marco Antonio. "We support education, health, and employment - that's what people need for a better life." Carlos Sr. caught a lot of flak from the Mexican press and U.S. commentators earlier this year when he was quoted as saying that he had no intention of "going around like Santa Claus" distributing his wealth.

..........

What are men like this one doing for their country? It is time to ask why their people come here for a decent wage and why our U.S. wages are going down while they do this? AND the big question of all - Who is getting rich while the workers are being pushed down?

[A HERETIC I AM]

112. Only one. Canada. And the rules require they go in, deliver, pick up and leave.

They aren't forced to make a pick up (Or "back-haul") BTW. What other countries might you be thinking of? You can not ship freight overland by truck via the same carrier from New York to Brazil, for instance. Driving down through Mexico and continuing further south does not happen.

Regarding your point about Mexican trucks and safety, you are spot on correct. "Knee-Jerk" only begins to describe the emotional hysteria this subject brings out.

I wonder how many of the posters on this thread that are so concerned about Mexican drivers have the same fear when driving next to a truck with a Quebec base plate. That driver more than likely has French as his primary language, yet Quebec domiciled trucking firms enter the US every single day, many of those trucks driving all the way to California and then back again. Yet you never hear or read a thread about the threat of drivers from north of the border taking American trucking jobs.

The idea that just because a truck is from Mexico, it will by definition be held together with gum and baling twine and the driver will be a drug using 17 year old who has not slept in 4 days is absurd.

As far as this program costing jobs or forcing wages down, i remain very skeptical. The Teamsters need to do a better job of marketing themselves to the average driver in this country and expand their membership. Protesting about a few thousand Mexican drivers who will come in, deliver, perhaps pick up and then LEAVE will not affect the American truck driving workforce in a demonstrable way.
And for the record, i was a Teamster. Local 299 in Detroit, the largest Car Haul Local in the country.

[1776Forever]

113. We aren't talking about Canadian drivers here because they have regulations in effect there

Canada also does not have a port that is going to be used by the Chinese to send goods to Kansas City without being checked in large enough per centages to make sure of our safety here in the U.S.. Again it is not the drivers here that we are discussing it is the owners who need to be questioned and the link to the Kansas City based inland port!

I cannot verify if all this blogger says is true, but if even some of it is then what do you think about being on the road with these trucks? Maybe someone that works for D.O.T. can help us out here.

.......................

http://www.rightmindsforum.com/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/rightminds?cmd=get&cG=130303332353&zu=313030333235&v=2&gV=0&p=

by Tanataj

Un-safe, Un-inspected, Un-insured, Un-qualifed MEXICAN drivers, will be on American higways driving OVER-loaded trucks with faulty safety equipment....as a part of the SPP agreement George Bush signed with Mexico and Canada.

American truck drivers have to go to school and pass a test to qualify for a 'commercial drivers license' - they have to pass physical exams and drug screens, their trucks have to pass rigorous safety inspections and be covered by insurance. Additionally, they have to keep a 'log book' detailing their daily activities and mileage and working hours. American trucks can be pulled over at anytime, anyplace by D.O.T. inspectors who conduct 'unannounced spot checks and inspections'. American truck drivers have to obey weight limit restrictions and are subject to having their vehicles weighed at any time.

MEXICAN trucks and drivers do NOT have to comply with ANY of those rules....and CANNOT be pulled over and inspected OR weighed.

Americans DON'T know it, but if you're involved in an accident with one of these big-rigs - YOUR "under-insured" motorist coverage on YOUR vehicle WON'T cover you.

[A HERETIC I AM]

115. The poster on that link does not know what the fuck he is talking about.

American trucks can be pulled over at anytime, anyplace by D.O.T. inspectors who conduct 'unannounced spot checks and inspections'. American truck drivers have to obey weight limit restrictions and are subject to having their vehicles weighed at any time. MEXICAN trucks and drivers do NOT have to comply with ANY of those rules....and CANNOT be pulled over and inspected OR weighed.

Bullshit. He is flat-out wrong on this point. There will be NO EXCLUSION that would allow a Mexican carrier to ignore safety, weight restriction or inspection requirements while operating in the United States. Show me the document that would allow such an exclusion. That blogger can't, you can't, no one can. It does not exist.

[High Plains]

137. Odd, you keep citing extreme rightist sources...

World Net Daily

Right Minds Forum

And then you mix it in with some traditional, less breathless, newspaper articles.

I see hysterical nationalism at work on this issue.

[1776Forever]

140. Believe what you will - As I have said this might just be the thing that awakens a lot of Repub's -

The only reason I use some of these links is because they have done the homework. Can you deny the Kansas City SuperPort???

New 'inland port' in heartland part of international plan that bypasses unions

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/mexican_customs_st...

A Mexican customs office is being built in the U.S. heartland as part of a newly designed "inland port" facility that links with a Mexican seaport, an official in Kansas City confirms. (Called the Kansas City SmartPort http://www.kcsmartport.com / )

Tasha Hammes of the Kansas City Area Development Council wrote to author and WND columnist Jerome Corsi to correct some details of a column on the subject, but she affirmed that a key purpose of the Kansas City Inland Port, or SmartPort, will be to facilitate the movement of containers from the Far East through the Mexican port at Lazaro Cardenas rather that the West Coast ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.

Corsi also had written that Kansas City Southern had acquired Mexican railroads to create a "NAFTA Railroad" that would link Lazaro Cardenas to the U.S. for container transport.

Hammes explained that with American consumption of goods from the Far East increasing, U.S. coastal ports are at capacity.....

Shipments will be pre-screened in Southeast Asia, and the shipper will send advance notification to Mexican and American Customs with the corresponding ''pre-clearance'' information on the cargo. Upon arrival in Mexico, containers will pass through multiple X-ray and gamma ray screenings, allowing any containers with anomalies to quickly be removed for further inspection.

Container shipments will be tracked using intelligent transportation systems, or ITS, that could include global positioning systems or radio frequency identification systems, and monitored on their way to inland trade-processing centers in Kansas City and elsewhere in the United States.

As the Kansas City SmartPort website boasts: ''Kansas City offers the opportunity for sealed cargo containers to travel to Mexican port cities with virtually no border delays. It will streamline shipments from Asia and cut the time and labor costs associated with shipping through the congested ports on the West Coast.''

[northzax]

157. what does the Kansas City port have to do with trucks?

your article plainly states that goods will enter the US by train, not by truck. (of course, if you read the NASCO report below, you will see that roughly a quarter are currently shipped by truck, but the goal is to increase rail traffic, among other things rail is cheaper)

in case you don't know the difference, trains go on these things called tracks, and tend to be quite long, while trucks go on roads. I wouldn't think this sort of thing would need to be explained, but you keep posting about a rail issue on a thread about trucks. Did you know that airplanes from Mexico are allowed to enter US airspace? even land! obscene, and about as relevant as the KC SmartPort to this issue.

[1776Forever]

159. I know it says trains, but this was written before the trucks became an issue - as far as Kansas

this is what is called the Super Port or SmartPort that is an inland port - this is where the trucks will be going to and from the Mexican port where the Asian (mostly Chinese) goods are shipped out of that will by pass the ports in CA and the longshorman there. So when it comes up the Super Highway that is being built it goes to the Kansas City site to be put out to other areas. Just go to the Teamsters site or go to the site link below to see the maps of the roads. This is a big thing for sure and it is not something that one can just read one article on and know what it is happening. But if you don't think this is something to be concerned about then don't do anything - it's a free country - so far -

Here is the link to the map -

http://www.nascocorridor.com/naipn/index.html

[northzax]

161. ah, so by a 'new superhighway' you mean I-35?

pretty sure that was completed 40 years ago.

And, by the way, trucks became an issue in 1996 when NAFTA became an issue. the shipping industry has known this was coming for a decade. It is significantly cheaper to move goods by rail over long distances, and this still isn't relevant to the issue of Mexican trucks, since even if they drop goods off in KC, a US trucker still has to carry them from KC (or the rail terminus it ends up in) to the end location. and those Mexican trucks still have to either pick up something in KC to ship back to Mexico or return empty, which is a money losing proposition.

[northzax]

156. this guy is completely correct

except he forgets that all trucks that apply (in advance) for permission to do this and will have to follow all laws in the states that they are in, under pain of impoundment. that includes emissions, insurance (by a US licensed and bonded company) licensing and inspections. this isn't people driving up to the border blindly and saying 'let me in' it's companies applying for permission to do it, and being approved, on a truck by truck basis, in advance. if there is an inspection station, and they fail, their truck is impounded. if there is a weigh station, and they don't have the right permits? their truck is impounded. if they don't have insurance? their truck is impounded. if their logbook is not up to day? impounded.

so how do you insure a Mexican truck and driver, if you are a US company? well, that's the question, isn't it? so far, no companies in Mexico have been approved for the program, partly because none of them have been able to get US insurance. you think GEICO is going to insure a driver with a dangerous truck who has no provable driving training? what a bad, bad business move that would be.

oh, and and vehicle on US roads can be pulled over by the relevant authorities, even those with diplomatic immunity.

[4dsc]

114. You're kidding right..

Mexican trucks versus Canadian trucks?? I would take a Canadian truck driver and truck over any truck coming from Mexico.. I seen my fellow Canadian trucks and most would pass inspection.. I wonder if the Mexican truck's will make the same claim..

[brentspeak]

127. On this thread alone, there's been several people reporting accidents with Mexican trucks

Plenty of people reporting near-accidents, too.

[A HERETIC I AM]

128. So what does this incredibly small sample prove?

It proves that there are "several people reporting accidents with Mexican trucks (and)Plenty of people reporting near-accidents, too."

And that is all it proves. It can not by any means be taken as a reliable sample of the entire industry and/or supposed problem this thread is about.

I am not by any means promoting the idea that Mexican trucks should be allowed in this country in a cavalier fashion. But the proposal that has raised the ire of the Teamsters does not allow that either. Again, as i said in a post above, there is so much mis and dis-information about this proposal and subject in general, it is amazing.

[ProudDad]

143. The real target is the entire

import and transportation Labor Structure -- lower wages and increase profits for the corporate capitalist masters.

Their goal is to import crap from China for mal-wart and its clones through ports in Mexico -- no regulations, no unions -- then truck it all up through the U.S. and Canada; depressing wages and further decimating what's left of the "blue collar" middle class in both of those countries.

I have nothing personal or professional against Mexican drivers or trucks...I have a lot against the anti-Worker and inhumane governments of Mexico, the U.S. (and Canada?) and the owners of those governments...

NAFTA was a disaster for poor and working people in all three countries. It was a real money maker for the "have mores" which are the natural constituency of the repubs and "conservative" Dems...

[Name removed]

126. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Heywood J]

130. I wonder how many people realize the hit

taxes will be taking on this. Aside from losing jobs and wages for those in the port and trucking industries, this will mean lost tax revenue for things like social programs. Workers pay payroll and income taxes, as well as the companies that employ them. The only kinds of taxes Mexican truckers will be paying to use the roads are the fuel taxes.

That's another way to render American business less competitive. Who pays to inspect extra Mexican trucks? Your tax dollars - the same ones they don't pay.

[1776Forever]

142. Found this link if anyone wants to learn more about where the BIG boys are coming from - Link

http://www.nascocorridor.com/naipn/index.html

Here it is guys - check this site out. This is where it is going to go - from the port in Mexico where Chinese goods are going to come into to the Super Highway to the Super Port in Kansas City and yes to Canada and New York corridors.

[sandyj999]

144. Thanks for the link. Very interesting. n/t

[Robson]

148. Bush says: Happy fucking Labor Day America (btw sorry if what Bush says is offensive)

Sorry if my language is offensive, but I find Bush very offensive. I find his policies as anti-USA, anti-labor, anti-environment, anti-highway safety for the citizens of the USA, and just overall repugnant.

Yet Pelosi still says impeachment is off the table. Tell me again if you can why this is so.

Does Congress as does Bush also welcome the union busting, wage slashing, non-English speaking scab drivers, in unsafe, un-environmentally friendly rigs to our nation's highways?

When the first deadly accident occurs because the non-English speaking rig driver failed to understand a CB warning that traffic was stopped ahead, will Pelosi still say impeachment is off the table?

[rhett o rick]

165. Looks like Bush is willing to give "Labor" on day, the rest of the year it is happy "f*** laborers

days".

[orleans]

164. i support the sierra club n/t

[OhioChick]

168. Starting on

Saturday?? Nice. What a bunch of BS.

Go Teamsters...