Riven by Class and No Social Mobility - Britain in 2007

[TomClash]

Source: Guardian UK

Riven by class and no social mobility - Britain in 2007


· No change in 10 years of Labour rule
· 89% say they are judged by class
· Poll shows deep North-South gap

Julian Glover
Saturday October 20, 2007
The Guardian


Ten years of Labour rule have failed to create a classless society, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today. It shows that Britain remains a nation dominated by class division, with a huge majority certain that their social standing determines the way they are judged. Of those questioned, 89% said they think people are still judged by their class - with almost half saying that it still counts for "a lot". Only 8% think that class does not matter at all in shaping the way people are seen.

The poorest people in society are most aware of its impact, with 55% of them saying class, not ability, greatly affects the way they are seen.

Gordon Brown claimed at this year's Labour conference that "a class-free society is not a slogan but in Britain can become a reality". But even the supposedly meritocratic Thatcher generation of adults born in the 1980s appear to doubt that: 90% of 18-24 year-olds say people are judged by their class.

The poll also shows that after 10 years of Labour government, social change in Britain is almost static. Despite the collapse of industrial employment, the working class is an unchanging majority. In 1998, when ICM last asked, 55% of people considered themselves working class. Now the figure stands at 53%.

more . . .

Read more: http://society.guardian.co.uk/socialexclusion/story/0,,2195632,00.html

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Does this sound familiar? It's no different in the US. A class war is being waged by the wealthy against the rest of us - and only one side's fighting - them. Does anyone think it's time for less talk and more action? Ask yourself - who's side are you on?

Iraq, Blackwater, Mukasey, Big Oil, Limbaugh, Coulter, 9/11, Homeland Security - in the end it all comes back to this.

[asthmaticeog]

1. The British have one advantage: they can TALK about class openly.

Try to seriously discuss social class here in the US and people either have no idea wtf you're talking about or they think you're a space alien from planet USSR.

[Zookeeper]

2. Yes...

another difference is that Americans believe they can move up a class just by making more money. And they continue to vote against their own interests because of that belief.

Here's an article from today's NY Times that suggests the old/new money and class issues that people miss:

(Can't link because of sign-in requirement)

THE Mortimers have been a couple since their days at Lawrenceville, the New Jersey boarding school. Mrs. Mortimer (née Mercer) is the oldest daughter of a prosperous businessman from Richmond, Va. Mr. Mortimer, whose given name is Robert, is the scion of an old-money dynasty. His great-grandfather, Henry Morgan Tilford, was a president of Standard Oil of California, and he is also a descendant of John Jay, the first chief justice of the United States.

Mrs. Mortimer is guileless in her desire to prove herself — she arrived for an interview with a stack of press clippings and photographs of Graymont, the large house she grew up in. (“Because, you know, there are rumors that my father was like ‘a carpet salesman,’ and actually it’s a family-owned carpet-manufacturing company.”) Mr. Mortimer, on the other hand, appears to have little to prove to the world at large.

[Book Lover]

4. What section is this in?

I can't find this article via search. Where is it in the paper?

[Zookeeper]

6. It's on the home page; the internet version.

The name of the article is "Why is that blonde smiling?" or something like that. 'Sorry to be so ditzy about it, but I'm in the middle of painting my house and have only had a few moments for posting.

:hi:

[Orangepeel]

10. In America, class is all about money

except for the very upper class that makes a distinction between "old" and "new" (and even then, "old" is a couple of generations and the right schools).

That doesn't mean that social mobility is easy -- it isn't easy to make tons of money (especially honestly), but it is definately possible. Furthermore, I'm not sure that's the main reason that people vote against their own interests. Some poor people may vote for republicans because they think that it will make them rich, but most poor people who vote republican do so because their preacher tells them to.

I have no idea whether or not that is now true in Britain.

[Zookeeper]

11. I get your point, however...

I grew up in a community where it was clear that how you earned your money and how long you'd had it made a difference in social status. (And it wasn't "very upper-class.")

A look at the estate-tax issue ("death tax") will tell you that working and middle-class people vote against their interests because they believe that some day they may be rich enough to qualify for that tax.

The U.S. has more flexibility concerning class than Britain (or caste in India, for example), but IMHO, there is a glass ceiling, of sorts, and the families above it are the ones controlling an enormous amount of wealth. That is part of the issue of class that no one is allowed to talk about without being accused of class warfare.

[TomClash]

3. it's true - to talk about class it has to be couched as something else

like the boss or the rich - but in large part it is because you are punished for talking about wealth issues.

[dickbearton]

5. Exactly, most American's are just plain stupid...

To the point of voting against their own interests. I point
this out to right wingers and others, and constantly get; oh,
no! We wouldn't do that. Most American's don't have a clue.
America bought into the communist, red scare bullshit, pushed
by the RW and the upper class; which still uses it to protect
their ill-gotten gains and position. Hell, most Americans
don't understand socialism, much less communism; they just
spout any Rw crap or slogan, they happen to pickup. Most
Americans are not studious, they are stupid; and fall for any
RW crap, with out regard to their own interests.  

[asthmaticeog]

7. Quite a lot of grammatical and spelling errors for someone making accusations of stupidity.

Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity, friend. Too many Americans are indeed ignorant, and that's by design - anti-intellectualism is quite purposely cultivated, and the public schools are going into the toilet for a reason. But there are incredible reserves of native intelligence here. If we were to start using it again, this country would be quite formidable again.

Shame you have your profile turned off, I was curious as to whether or not you live in the U.S.

[Karenina]

8. Interesting take!

:hi:

[TomClash]

9. I would say you are correct

The Dems now often fail to articulate or represent working class/middle class interests so working/middle class voters won't really vote their economic interests if no one espouses those interests. So I would not call these people stupid.

[JVS]

13. But I am a space alien from planet USSR!

[JVS]

12. 3rd way