Biden Says Bush Could Use Iranian Guard Resolution as a Pretext for War

[Purveyor]

Source: Bloomberg News

Oct. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Democrat Joe Biden, chairman of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said President George W. Bush could use a measure calling the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist group as a justification for war.

The Senate voted 76-22 on Sept. 26 to approve a nonbinding resolution asking the U.S. to formally include the 150,000- member military group on a list of terrorist organizations. Biden said Bush could use the vote to justify an attack on Iran, which is suspected of trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Biden said in an interview on ABC's ``This Week With George Stephanopoulos,'' broadcast today, that the vote in favor of the resolution was ``a gigantic mistake.''

``The president's going to stand there and say, if he does, `Ladies and gentlemen, as the United States Congress voted, they said these guys are terrorists. I moved against them to save American lives,''' Biden said.

Biden, a presidential candidate, criticized Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, a senator from New York, for supporting the measure on Iran. He said she would bear responsibility for any military action taken by the president against Iran.



Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a2TcvJ1bzkCc&refer=us

[gateley]

1. Well he's right about that! Don't think anyone would argue that point. nt

[Enrique]

12. actually there's a lot of disagreement on this

Dick Durbin, for one...

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/obama_and_durbin_aligned_on_ir.html

"If I thought there was any way it could be used as a pretense to launch an invasion of Iran I would have voted no,'' Durbin said in an interview.

[ginchinchili]

19. Hmmm...Democrats made similar statements after Bush invaded Iraq

using that authorization as an excuse. That bill wasn't presented as an "authorization for war" either. I'm with Biden on this, very strongly. Over and over and over again we give Bush the benefit of the doubt, and over and over and over again he sticks it to us. He can't be trusted. What will it take for some Democrats to learn that, World War III?

[Enrique]

58. Durbin didn't

he voted against the Iraq war resoultion in 2002. Biden voted for that resolution, by the way.

I'm not saying that this proves Durbin is right and Biden is wrong, I was responding to the claim that Biden's point is trivial, which it's not. In fact, it's being debated with credible people on both sides.

[IndianaGreen]

22. Why would anyone in their right mind give Bush the authority to do anything!

Hillary shows she lacks the judgment and the temperament to be President.

[jimlup]

35. Which is exactly why she is going to be President

[IndianaGreen]

41. The next War-Criminal-in-Chief!

Four more years of war under Hillary, that's what we will get!

[BornagainDUer]

65. The sad part is that the Public will give a sigh of relief

if she somehow manages to become president.

[niceypoo]

76. Show your evidence

Lets see the proof of Hillarys planned blitzkrieg

[FREEWILL56]

51. Sorry, but you don't speak for me and many others.

[Emillereid]

47. I'm with you IndianaGreen. There is no excuse to give Bushit any authority

to do anything but report to the Hague and stand trial for crimes against humanity. I don't know what's wrong with Hillary -- I mean the republican guard are part of Iran's military. It's like another country calling our marines a terrorist group. I think HC is pandering to the AIPAC crowd.

[Enrique]

57. do you ever make statements that aren't propaganda?

do you ever have uncertainty about anything?

do you ever ask non-rhetorical questions, as in questions wanting to find answers instead of having all the answers?

do you ever say anything that doesn't advance an agenda?

[frogcycle]

27. Durbin disappointed me with that.

The simple fact is, bush declared that any country that harbors terrists is fair game. "Either with us or against us" and all that. The resolution itself does not give him that authority, but he will sure as hell use it as cover. His track record shows that. By having the congress state that 1/3 of the Iranian military is terrorist, it gives him all the rationalization he needs. He's nuts, remember?

[ginchinchili]

32. Exactly. For some reason some Dems keep thinking...

...that Bush is going to start playing by the rules. I'd like to know what they base that on.

[jillan]

29. How could anybody trust Bush with an amendment that uses the word 'terrorist' in it is beyond my

comprehension.

[AllyCat]

46. Help me understand

Clinton's Defense

Clinton defended her support for the measure during a debate in New Hampshire last month, saying the terrorism designation would give the U.S. ``the options to be able to impose sanctions on the primary leaders to try to begin to put some teeth into all this talk about dealing with Iran.''

--------

We have to call them "terrorists" before we can do this? Puh-leeze!!

[PatSeg]

52. Her defense

makes no sense at all. :banghead:

[mallard]

63. Re: "If I thought there was any way ..."

Well, duuuuh!

Trying to cover their butts already on a forgone bad conclusion - not good.

[Harper_is_Bush]

25. Sure, and Bush COULD use a cloudless sky as an excuse to bomb France.

Don't think anyone would argue that point.

[ginchinchili]

34. The critical difference is that Bush won't use a cloudless sky for an excuse

but it would be consistent with his history for him to use such a declaration as a pretext for war. Why do you think he did it? Remember, technically he needs Congress to declare war, but he doesn't need Congress to give him permission to go after terrorists, wherever they are. He has also made it clear that any government harboring terrorists is fair game for military action. Now he can hit Iran and claim that Congress backs him on it. Not too bright on Congress's part, and that, unfortunately, includes Hillary Clinton. She should know better. I should also mention that today Cheney was sounding very much like he did before invading Iraq. Not a good sign.

[Myrina]

2. Wow Joe, ya think?

:freak:

[gateley]

3. Here's a link to the interview itself on abc:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3756981

[frogcycle]

28. and a damned good interview it was, too

[sakabatou]

4. Another war... damn

[Think82]

5. We must nominate this man

[IndianaGreen]

23. Exactly! Biden has shown the maturity that the frontrunner lacks

and he has the experience and temperament to lead our nation out of the Bush nightmare.

[Enrique]

64. you previously said "Biden makes Hillary look good"

IndianaGreen, your opinions are very strongly worded. But are they for real?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2183922&mesg_id=2184772

[IndianaGreen]

68. Here is what I posted on the Biden Group when I decided to support Biden

please note that my support did not mean 100-percent agreement on the issues, but was predicated on the candidate's temperament, maturity and judgment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=404x1824

[Enrique]

69. you shouldn't get off that easy

you are a very demanding person, some might say a purist.

You rigidly demand purity of others, you shouldn't be allowed to go so easy on yourself.

You shouldn't be allowed to announce your support for someone that voted for the Iraq war resolution, for Chrissakes, and then just blithely say it's the "pragmatic" choice, and then proceed to use Biden to bash Clinton.

[IndianaGreen]

73. Unike Biden, Hillary has not repented for her IWR vote, and she voted to give Bush green light...

to attack Iran.

You are the one with the fatally flawed candidate!

[gateley]

6. Oops - forgot to recommend. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. umm Bush will use ANYTHING for a pretext for war.

The Constitution means nothing to them. Checks and balances mean nothing to them. They play for keeps as we apologize for telling the truth on the Senate floor.

THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES.

[Kahuna]

9. You don't even have to give him an inch for him to steal the yard..

nt

[monktonman]

10. delete, oooops! n/t

[madrchsod]

8. why yes it would.....

that really is a no brainier.

[Froward69]

11. I finaly watched the interview

I Dig him more and more... and when Bush bombs/invades Iran. I will scream about hillarys vote. one definate misjudgement on her part. just to look tough. :mad: :grr: :nuke:

[jillan]

14. Glad you finally got to see it. He was amazing!

[AllyCat]

42. She wasn't trying to look tough. She wants war just as much as any good

Rethuglican. I wouldn't even call it a misjudgment. I think this is what her corporate backers want and she is supporting them any way she can.

[unkachuck]

13. `a gigantic mistake.'

'...she would bear responsibility for any military action taken by the president against Iran.'

....hey Joe, how come you get to critique the judgment of the nominee of our Party and progressives don't?

[Froward69]

16. well

1) she isnt ordained yet and
2) he has better judgement than she
3) the word needs to be told from sea to shining sea.
4) our country Needs Someone with real ideas to lead us into the future. not someone who will lead off of opinion oplls.
5)The next president needs to hit the office running not someone who needs a learning curve.

[FREEWILL56]

31. Thank you for saying that.

If I could recommend your answer I would. I grow tired of hillary being shoved down my throat as I don't like her stance on things and I believe she is not good for this country. I was belittled with names for saying that I don't intend to vote for her and I was open to rebuttle on any good talking points any would've had for her to sway me in my feelings about her. I drew more name calling from them with 1 in particilar that couldn't say 1 damn thing good about her. This only puts me in a mindset of her being no good and I welcome any other democratic nominee.

[AllyCat]

45. I've had ONE person from DU actually say why HRC would be good

I don't agree with her reasons, but at least she didn't resort to name-calling and tried to sway me. All the other HRC supporters just like to lob insults and speak in generalities about her, rather than give specifics on why she would be good.

Her vote on this is just one more reason why she would be terrible for this country. And no, I'm not a misogynist either (have you been called that one yet?).

[FREEWILL56]

50. No, they haven't pulled that one on me yet, but it wouldn't surprise me

if they argue that on everybody down the road including our lady voters. Now isn't that something to think about?
I base my feelings on what hillary says and votes for and beyond that her little robots will do whatever, but they would be foolish to continue backing somebody that is unbackable. I do my own little polling too on the pulse here by how contributions are flowing from DUers. Hillary is a loser and is behind Gore who isn't even running. Now that's funny. She's even behind the so called unelectable Dennis Kucinich and I wouldn't doubt her campaign had something to do with that rumor.
edit to add link:
http://www.actblue.com/page/du-presidential

[AllyCat]

62. Jeez, she's behind Clark who isn't even running (on this board)

I used to support Clark. Then he decided to endorse her and I lost all faith in him. Smart, wonderful leader, but I was astonished at that endorsement.

[PatSeg]

54. You certainly have the right to say you don't intend to vote

for her. We're Democrats - we are supposed be diversified and tolerant of one another. Expressing an honest and civil opinion about a candidate is appropriate. Marching in lockstep is more a republican trait. It doesn't befit the Democratic party.

[City Lights]

15. Bush can do whatever he wants. No one will stop him.

He doesn't need a resolution, a declaration, or approval from Congress. He just needs to give the order. :-(

[Diclotican]

18. No Surrender

No Surrender

IF you dosent stop this madness, and this man.. You vil one day wake up to the sound of war.. World war as mr Bush already have treathen the world with...

And as Hitler, he is truly catable to execute that treath to the world...

Diclitican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[City Lights]

60. I agree with you, Diclotican.

We used to be a nation of laws, with checks and balances in place to prevent a power grab. Unfortunately, Bushco is above the law, and Congress is reluctant to carry out its oversight duties.

[Diclotican]

67. No Surrender

No Surrender

Then it is time for the peopole to TELL CONGRESS to act, and to carry out their oversight duties then?. If they dont want, they have to be told.. If 10.000.000 peopole are marshing tru Washington DC to tell the Congress thats time to impeach, and to strip this Administration of all their power.. It wil be don.. Why you think that the Vietnam was going from bad to worse at the homefront in the 1960s?. Becouse the SIVILIANS stoped belive in the rethoric who was coming out of White House.. (A know it may be a simplied wiew, but it have some valid points) When the sivilians stoped belive, and the casualies and the killed soldiers was coming home by the thousands, the whole thing was going apart..

THis regime can also be like that.. If many enough pepole is standing up, and tell the Congress to act on their duties.. And to tell the delegates, if they dosent want to do the right thing, the peopole can allways elect others, who are willing to lisen to the peopole... And to punish they wo dosent was willing to do it..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[Diclotican]

17. Purveyor

Purveyor
Not supricing, We have seen it coming for many year now.. And I doubt that "just" 70 prosent of the population who dosent agree with President Bush are enought to let this "gentlemen" not going to war.. They have a grand plan for the future, and they really belive they are doing goods job.. And they have just 1 year 8 mounts to do it.. And if they "Just" get the war thing right, they can allays blame the democrativ party for not suport the military forces.. Or if they blow it, and a democratic president is the new man/woman in house.. Do their best to tramble, and making a hell if/when the new president are taking the soldiers home again..

Vil US going into another war, with a thin exuse to do it to boot.. What in the H*** is really going on in the US today.. Are the goverment, the politican, and obivsely a good part of your peopole totaly brainwashed, and plain mad?.. Do you really you can turn the whole world upside down, and belive that nobody wil do a thing against the warmongerer the US have been lately????

I you are not extremely careful, US wil find itself withouth any more friends, even the old allieds in NATO one day maybee turing its back on the US, becouse they are totaly out of line...

Do the goverment, and a lot of the public that US can beat the rest of the world, as they pleace, without someone tell US to stop.. One of this days US are going to get a verry bloody nose if they act as this for a long time.. For eatch new war Mr Bush are draging US into, you make a million news enemies, and with all this enemies even the most powerfull nation on the face of the earth are someday geting into a standstill.. Sometime down the road, you are picking on some who can give you the full treatment... And what should US do then?.. Withhout friends, withouths allieds?..

I fear that if US are going into a war with Iran, the whole Middleast wil turn itself upside down. It wil be a war for a generation or two.. Millions of arabians wil go bananas and even the protection of all american instalitation in the middle east wil not be enough.. In many parts of the world, US military forces wil find out it is not smart to go out of the base area. Becouse you can be treated verry, verry bad.. Even hang in the city trees.. It wil ba hard time for americans, who dosent suport the politic of this militaric manicac that they dosent suport.. And it wil take decades to repair what this 6 year have been doing to US repotation around the planet..

If US want to LEAD the world. They have to behave acordently. If they wil destroy all the repotation and the respect they have build up over 60 year or so in the West anyway. Be my guest act as assholes, act as it is NO INTERNATIONAL LAW who US cant broke.. Tortur and kill prisons, tortur and kill inocenst.. Think what is been doing in the NAME OF THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA today.. Think whiths repotation you allready HAVE in many parts of the world..

US was once a country to look up to.. Today it is nothing to look up to.. Its just so sad that I dont have word for it.. Not in Engelish anyway.. Its just horrible.. I am so sad that what is happeing is really going into mee and someday I dont want to read or lisning to international news.. Its just horrible what is happening.. And I really fear that if US are to going Into Iran, a nucelar device wil be used.. And then the whole thing is blowing up..

It is just so horrible, and I fear if US are going into Iran after the whole cherenade in Iraq, it wil not be many country who suport US this time around.. Even the bribed and coorced nations wil not stand this.. Then you REALLY ARE ON YOUR OWN.. And that is maybee what mr Bush and CO really want all the way.. TO be alone, so they can start their plan for US...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Sorry my bad engelish,

[TahitiNut]

20. God dag fra en praktfull av Norsk innvandreren! Velkommen!

(Det er lutefisk inne det fryser idet jeg type denne.)

Jeg avtale. Denne er ikke lenger det land meg besteforeldre alarmert USA.

[Diclotican]

59. TahitiNut

TahitiNut

Ok, du fryser Lutefisk, mens du skriver dette?

Ja, jeg er enig med deg i at dette er ikke det USA du, og dine besteforeldre engang emigrerte til... But I belive that even with this horrible thing what is happening, can be revoked, and they who are behind it can be arrested, procescuted and maybe even been send to prisssion. I dont belive that the democracy in US is a lost cost yet.. Even that you may not are given the best governanse everytime you have to surive sometimes.. The US democracy cant be killed that easy???

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[FREEWILL56]

36. I'm not sure what tahitinut said to you,

but I think I can say that what the government does is not at the will of the people anymore, but of their own designs and wishes. I'm not so sure we have the power anymore to direct the changes that I and many others know need to be in our government. Know that the people don't necessarilly back this so called government that in my opinion has been hijacked in a coup. They are waiting to finalize their grips on the government as any attempt on the government or the assholes that hijacked it will be met with the excuse of terrorists overthrowing the government and imposing martial law with the people being ruled over by madmen. If a democrat gets in there I feel it is by design by those involved in the coup and is not a guarantee that this madness will stop. I cite hillary and pelosi among others in the democratic party as well as nearly all of the republicon party as part of that madness. People here I believe are being lead into thinking all is normal so as to not alarm the population into stopping them too soon.
Before I get chewed up by the wolves I will say that, God, I pray I'm wrong. Do not hate Americans as our government does not represent us anymore. Help us.

[Diclotican]

66. FREEWILL56

FREEWILL56

No worry, he just typing something in Norwigian, but I belive he may have to use a better translater, it is not perfect the type of translating he is using.. I guess the translater are translate it litary, and not taken into what he may wish to write down. Not his foult then;)

I to belive that your government are been hijacked and it startet for really in 2000 when GWB was "elected" as US president, even after mr Gore have von with 50.000 votes.. Its not excactly democracy when the man with the less wotes get the office.. And the wote in 2004 was allso rigget, if the rumors is true.. Are it that easy to rig a wote in the US?.

If you go back to 1770s, when the real governemnt in the colonies in the US was under the subject of brittish law, the colonies who go into open revolt was also branded as terrorist.. If it was not for the fact that George Washington won, with the good help of french forces, who was so happy to give the brittish a blody noose in the prosess he may had lost the war, and been branded as a terrorist, and subjected to arrest, and maybee been hang as a terrorist.. Now George Washington IS famous, good known and not branded as a Terrorist, BUT it was a close call when it happenend..

I too are afraid that the way things have been going the last 6 year, when it is coming up in the light is going to end in dictatorship, og some worse if US are not verry carefull now. A Democray is a fragile thing, that cna be killed verry easy. It is easy to build, and hard to maintain of the peopole is grown compleacment and dont care anymore. And it looks like many americans "do not care" what the whole is about. They are easy to feel with "nationalism" but when you ask the tuff qusting many americans are just "what are you really talkning about"?..
My experience is that many americans is verry naive about the world outside their own little world, even the educated ones, looks from my point of weiw as verry naive and beliving what the govermet are telling them. Or the Main Stream Media are telling about the world. Even when the world they are presentes, are totaly wrong, its not allways easy to learn american to se the world with other glases as they are used to.. Even international News organisation who whant to get a foothold in US, have to tell american what they want to know, and in a image that american understand (BBC America). If you are told, by all the media that your country is specially and that you are specially, you might even fall for that, and belive that US is a specially part of the world. Specially if you are been told that even the Lord have given US specially right to behave as they want to behave against the rest of the world. Then you in the end belive it...

As I know it, the only country who really is blessed by the Lord, is Israel, but that is maybee another debate again...

If you want to get help, we wil help, but then you have to listen to us.. It is easy to get adwises when you dont need to do it. US is a great nation, who the world had/have admirence for.. We know that US are not all about Mr Bush, the neo-cons or the thugs and bandits who are rampaging the world today. We know that ordinay americans are a peacefully peopole who just want to get along with others, and dosent want to be represented by leaders like Bush, Chenny Rice and its like.. You want to be represented by leaders who want the best of the US, and to the rest of the World.. Many american really belived that mr Bush was the ONE to repair what damage Mr Clinton had doing to the Office in the White House.. But this man has not excatly repaired the damage, but rather destroyed many of the repotation the US had.. And I am afraid it wil take a long time fo fix that...
But belive mee when I say, I dont hate americans. I dont hate The US. I DONT even hate mr Bush and his cronies. I feel extremely sorry for US, who have so live tru this nightmare, with no end in sight.. But it is ALLWAYS a end in sight, even then its hard to belive. I know that even in the Nazi-Germany where many germans really was in fear of their life, the hope of a better life, even that it mean the downfall of Germany, and the building of a new country.. When the defeat of Germany was totaly the germans had to build ut their country again.. And today Germany in the middle of Europe is one of the safest country in the world.. I doubt that some new Adolf Hitler ever wil have the chance to get their hand of the Chancler name one more time in Germany..

US have over 200 year with democracy, and should have all opportunity to stand ut, and get this madmans out of office, and in a prision or someting like that. It wil take TIME, but US wil make it, and be a stronger Democracy when its over.. I belive that. And US had maybee learn something about the falsehood abut "strongs leadership" from groups who have extreme plans for the future too??

This is from a man who havent exactly stoped short of broadssides against this regime. I dont hate US and its peopole, but I are not ecactly happy about this regime who are in charge.. And I hope, really hope that when the time are coming, we all can be a part of the same world once again, and work with a commen goal.. Make the world a little better place for us all... And to fight terrorism the RIGHT WAY not the "Bush way"...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[Hardrada]

49. Hello from a Norwegian-American who agrees with you. Now

our foreign policy has been more or less hijacked by Israel starting in 1967. That explains why our actions in the Middle East are not sensible from the point of view if American security but make sense when viewed through the Israeli prism. I have nothing against the existence of Israel but I think that country needs to fight its own battles and do the US a favor by leaving us out of it.

[Diclotican]

71. Hardrada

Hardrada

Hello, so you are seeing yourself as a norwigian-american. intersting. I have met some of american whit scandinavian roots here now. Supricing to se, that so many have roots here.. And that they are seeing themself as sutch, even they maybee be 3 og 4 generation americans.

Vel. i seriusy doubt that Israel have that power over US forreing policy.. I belive that mutch of the policy US have had when it come to the middle east is mutch more the liking of some verry stupid shoose where the desiding about who to suport, and who to be enemy with have been desided over bad innformation and rather careless know-how about the region...

But Israel have probely manage to be a principal friend of US. Even after 1967. It is many in the current administration who really belive that if they suport Israel whatever she shooses to do against the rest of the world, the Christ himself wil come down to jugde beliver and non-beliver.. Many of them who suport Israel, cant care less about the jew, but is just interestning to get into the "end times" where they really belive they wil be saved atomatic.. They are just as anti-semetic as some of the more nuferius regimes who plauged the European continent for 60-70 year ago.. But they are better cloth, and are more "decent loocking" then the extremist of the 1930s..

I do belive in the state of the Israel. I really doubt that the claims of re-preperation of all palestinians into Israel, either before the 1948 or 1967 or later disptues wil fly anywhere what peopole want it to fly. But what we, all as sitizien of the Planet Earth have to do, is to try to convince both parties that if they want to survive, they have to make a peace, where both parties can survive.. Its to mutch distrust in the two camps. I really doubt it wil be posible for either side to stand down, without some force to stand between the two parties for a long, long time.. And even then it wil take the best time of the first sentury this 1000 year to make the two sides trusting each again..

As to the point of Jerusalem, who are the big ISSUE here. It should ha been a Internatjonal protected City for a long time.. A UN/NATO/EU force with the mandate to police and protect everyone who want to travel to the holy city. Then Arabs, christian and jew til have the posibility to travel either by air, by land or by train to the city, and worship their place.. Comerce and its like, can be made, and peace can broke out too.. The UN/NATO/EU force mutch have the right to arrest, prosecute and to send to prision everyone who have doing criminal doings.. The FORCE who are protection Jersualem must also have a vide enough mandate from the international body, to foil with the help of both the arabic contrys and Israel any plot who want to destability the pact where Israel is a International City..
It wil be hard for all parties, that they have the right to travel to and from the city, but dosent have the "right" to do what it want.. But it is the ONLY solution where all parties, can live in some peace in this area of the world.. If Jerusalem are not govern by either arabic, cristian or jew. Then many of the "issues" that Hamas and its like have, wil stop beeing a issue.. But that is just my humble opinion then..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[Hardrada]

74. All my ancestors are Norwegian My wife is half Norwegian

and half English by descent. I have to agree with you about the concept of Jerusalem as an International City to defuse the tension there. I think our policy is dictated by a Strong Israel lobby but also by a greed for oil. These forces however are almost contradictory. Takk!

[Diclotican]

75. Hardrada

Hardrada

Ah, nice. Have you been in Norway?.. I wil belive that Norway is verry diferent from your ancestors;)

The consept of a International City in Jerusalem is maybee the best case, to defuse some tension. I doubt it wil defuse all tension who are in Israel in PA area and in Jerusalem iteself. But if the city is under international LAW, and with a wide mandat for the police/military force who are in charge.. Maybee some like the international forces who was ruling Berlin after WW2.. A police force who have the ressourses, and mandat to defent itself, if attaced and there they too have a intelligence apparatous who can fight criminals and terroist. Who without doubt wil try to sabotage the whole concept..

Wel, I belive that OIL, is a better wiew if thingking about the currend Administratins "policy". Dich Chenney, Bush, and a lot of others in the Administration are people who are deep into the know-how about oil. The whole Iraqi catastrophe have been about the controll over a comodeum who wil _not_ be easy to be independed about.. Even if we do managed to produce a product who are like oil, or maybee even better it wil take a lot of time to make that type of product esasy in hand.. And if it cost to mutch to produce, so long Oil is more easy to produce, and to refine I really are in doubt that this stuff wil be make aviable..

Du er velkommen:)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[IndianaGreen]

21. Chris Dodd and Jim Webb said the same thing as Biden

No matter how Hillary tries to bullshit her way out of this, her vote will give Bush a pretext for war, again!

[HuffleClaw]

24. oh sure, NOW he says that.

and then we'll hear a cute list of excuses of why they voted for it

[gateley]

26. I'm really surprised that vote passed - I can't imagine anyone not being

gun-shy as a result of Iraq. And those who said it was focusing on diplomacy -- why do we need a vote that brands part of their military terrorists to engage in diplomacy? He has no intention of pursuing that diplomatic route. And after seeing the PBS show on Cheney, I'm even more concerned that I was before.

[frogcycle]

30. voting for it was lame-assed pandering

There was no compelling reason to even have such a resolution. It did nothing except possibly inflame both the Iranians and bush. Neither of which is productive. There is no way to weasel out of it. It was stupid.

[jillan]

33. Cheney is ready --------------------->

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5heE937QM6QzE9T5U7wFrft0XfTmA

Our country and the entire international community cannot stand by as a terror-supporting state fulfills its most aggressive ambitions,"

[BenV]

40. OK, when I saw that picture of Cheney...

All I could think of was Vader, so it inspired me to make this:

[jeff30997]

37. What I would lite to see as a headline:

The Senate voted 76-22 to approve a nonbinding resolution asking the U.S. to formally include Blackwater on a list of terrorist organizations.

[FREEWILL56]

38. Along with the republicon party.

[PatSeg]

56. Wouldn't that be the day?

Well maybe in our dreams, but its a good point.

[bjobotts]

39. Yes! and the senators try to act naive like they didn't know this was an AUMF on Iran.

If they didn't know then they have to be stupid...It came from Jerusalem Joe for God's sake. Presidents are supposed to be trying to keep us out of WWIII not pushing us into it. We have become a fascist nation and they are just buying time till Nov. '08 to tell us and declare martial law. the time is here and make no doubt, it has happened. Don't be caught unaware or by surprise. Be prepared for the police state and total ID control. Store food and water and make shelters. The 'good Germans' have become the guinea pigs and here come the preachers to keep us in submission...why else would they make such a big deal out of training them now. Look around at the preparations already made under the guise of terrorist preparations. All the bases have been covered...you can think it's just coincidence or see it for what it is.

Never has there been an administration acting like this...cowboy insane.

[FREEWILL56]

53. Ahh. We think similarly.

Welcome aboard the DU. Watch out for those little hillbot landmines.

[AllyCat]

43. Right. That's why it was even in the "verbage" of the resolution

Ole' King George wants to make it look like it was bipartisan, not because he cares what in the hell the Congress authorizes him to do, but because that way, he can use it against all the Dems who voted for it (or didn't bother). He'll go to war because it pleases him, not because anyone gave him even an inkling of authorization to do so.

[calteacherguy]

44. I can see both the Durbin and the Webb side of this issue.

Tough call.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

48. What Difference Does it Make?

(Also, an excellent song, BTW.) But seriously, if there's no evidence, bush invents it or lies about it. He doesn't need this resolution, I don't think he had one for Iraq, and we all remember Powell's dog-and-pony-show at the UN? He could use Britney's breakdown as a reason for war with Iran, because he's a deviant, dishonest fuck who clearly has no respect for the law or the intelligence of the American people. Bush coming up with what he feels is justification is I think beside the point, however correct it may be, the point is placing barriers on president bombs-a-lot, so he doesn't ACTUALLY get us into another quagmire, nevermind what he INTENDS to do.

[FREEWILL56]

55. Welcome to the DU.

You are right that bush will do whatever bush wants to, but do we need the senate to give a seal of approval as that is just as insane as what bush does? There was a resolution done for Iraq too btw and hillary voted yes on that one too. She also said she's responcible for her vote, but never said she was wrong in her vote and continued to vote for a possible confrontation with Iran. So tell me what's more insane, bush playing war president or those that approve it? I see no difference.

[USA_1]

61. Aren't You Glad Now That There Is No Draft???

[FREEWILL56]

70. Personnaly, I'm too old for any draft,

but I'm happy none the less that there isn't one for our young men and women as that nutcase of a war president would have more of our soldiers in harm's way.

edit to add concerning this "Bush's war of imperialistic terrorism = NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON!":

I DARE CALL IT TREASON.

[SOS]

72. From the Iraq AUMF

"(2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations."

Authorization now complete.

Iraq AUMF authorizes military action against "international terrorists and terrorist organizations".

Iran vote seals the authorization.