Kucinich says he will force House vote on Cheney impeachment

[antigop]

Source: Raw Story



Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) announced he would move to force a vote next week on his resolution calling for the impeachment of Vice President Dick Cheney.

“The momentum is building for impeachment,” Kucinich said in a statement on his Web site. “Millions of citizens across the nation are demanding Congress rein in the Vice President’s abuse of power.

Kucinich said he plans to introduce a privileged resolution, which would have priority for a House floor vote, on Nov. 6. A vote on the measure would be required within two days.

Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Kucinich_says_he_will_force_House_1102.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. GOOD

This will expose them for what they are

[burythehatchet]

3. That's right. Make 'em vote and get 'em on the record.

Pelosi will quash it though.

[Baby Snooks]

33. If she does...

If she does, I hope her constituents will move quickly to recall her.

[CubicleGuy]

37. Federal recall?

I don't think there's any provision for recalling people elected to Federal office.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

87. you are correct. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

127. Actually, there is a federal recall.

They're called elections. ;) I still say that district race is going to be one to watch in 2008.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

128. smart alec

:P

[Le Taz Hot]

139. Thank you.

It's a gift. :evilgrin:

[bjobotts]

113. Pelosi's constituents recall her??? She wanted them arrested.

If they carried impeachment signs in her neighborhood she wanted them arrested...her own constituents.

[creeksneakers2]

124. The protesters aren't her constituents

They come from all over. There were recruiting threads here on DU.

[proud2BlibKansan]

138. And there are DUers who live in SF and are part of that group

As if it matters which district they live in.

[coalition_unwilling]

172. Pelosi also wanted them arrested for "vagrancy" if they were poor. Or

at least that's what she implied in her remarks about the pro-impeachment demonstrators.

Pelosi's remarks, Feinstein's just announced suupport of Torturer Mukasey and Jane Harmon's dereliction of duty on the House Intel Committee pre-March 2003 have combined to drive me out of the Democratic Party. I will no longer contribute to the Democratic Party and I will no longer blindly support it. I am now officially a "swing voter", swinging between the Democratic Party when it nominates candidates like Dennis Kucinich and Marcy Winograd and the Socialist Party\Peace and Freedom Party when the Democrats nominate tackers like Pelosi, Feinstein and Harman.

I have had it.

[creeksneakers2]

179. Pelosi did not imply she would have arrested them for

vagrancy. Pelosi was making the point that what was in reality harassment and trespassing was exempt from prosecution because of the first amendment.

I'm sorry to hear you are leaving the Democratic Party. I don't think there ever was a reasonable chance they they would endorse socialism. I'm especially sad because you were previously a "blind supporter." You can't find another one of those just anywhere.

Its a good thing Democrats don't mind you leaving. What if a couple hundred of them camped in your yard until you changed your mind?

[Popol Vuh]

200. Well said coalition_unwilling

I too about a year ago made the same exact decision you've made, also, about a half dozen friends of mine too have done the same.

:thumbsup:

[calimary]

94. Prepare to hit the phones next week, guys!

Please note the handy TOLL FREE Capitol Hill switchboard numbers located in my sig line below for your convenience.

Suggest you make two calls at least - if you can. One to Dennis, and the other to your rep - whoever he or she is, regardless of party affiliation. Call more than that if you can. They NEED TO KNOW we are out there BY THE MILLIONS!!!

And if they won't show backbone, then WE have to.

[rodeodance]

133. YOU BET> in the meantime------hit the emails/Fax

[zazzle]

112. Dems will NOT hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary!

Surely Kucinich knows it too!

[nightrider767]

2. Yeaaahhhh Baaaby

Let's have a straight up or down vote. Those assholes in COngress make the big bucks, let's force them to put something on paper. Let's see who stands where....

[MuseRider]

4. Good for him.

If you can't beat them you figure out a way to force them. It is insane that they can't even address it. Well now we will know.

[Seabiscuit]

64. I think DK is figuring, "If you can't beat them, expose them for what they are" and

make their invertebrate nature part of the Congressional Record.

[MuseRider]

66. Could be

and that is a great plan. Since he rarely gets to say much at the debates I think he is working in a totally different manner and we will begin to see if it works or not as time goes on. Who knows? The guy is smart and will not quit. I hope it works for him, obviously since I support him, but still it would be nice to see him show well.

[silverojo]

195. Actually....

It's a way to draw attention to his floundering campaign.

But I don't care...anything to make the Dems even APPEAR to have a spine is fine by me!

[Seabiscuit]

196. "But I don't care"? You cared enough to make that nasty remark about DK. n/t

[stubtoe]

5. YAYYYY

Go Kucinich! Show them what a backbone is.

[fed-up]

6. Is that why Cheney's lawyer just "retired" today?? nt

[drm604]

10. Interesting.

Do you have a link?

[maddezmom]

20. Cheney Lawyer Is Leaving

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-desk/2007/11/01/cheney-lawyer-is-leaving.html

[drm604]

29. Thanks! n/t

[ClintonTyree]

31. Wants to spend more time with his family....

before returning to private practice. :eyes: You'd think these guys would come up with something a little more original. Although I wouldn't mind seeing Cheney using "the excuse" soon. Bush, either. I'm sure their respective families miss them terribly. :puke:

[burythehatchet]

36. Eloping with Karen Hughes?

:)

[Nevernose]

91. Perhaps he knows something illegal?

I remember in my custody case the lawyer kept saying, "Now, I can't and won't lie about anything illegal you've done, but if you were to say it was a hypothetical situation..." I kept saying -- unlike Dick Cheney, probably -- "Dude! I'm not saying I didn't do that because I'm LYING about it, I'm not saying that because it NEVER HAPPENED! For the record, I HADN'T done anything illegal, and I now have custody of the rapidly growing Bambina (also, I spend an inordinate amount of time wondering about proper skirt length, the cost of private music lessons, and the setting of the thermostat).

The point being: my shark lawyer was willing to do or say anything, as long as it wouldn't affect his career or reputation.

That's where all the Nichols/McVeigh conspiracy rumors started, when the first lawyers had to resign from the case because they'd submitted "evidence" they knew to be untrue and wanted to preserve their careers.

[DemBones DemBones]

211. Wouldn't that be a given with this

particular client? :evilgrin:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

7. I can not wait to see the outcome on this!!!

:bounce:

[Amonester]

8. Good! History will have a chance to record the names of those...

who stand FOR the Constitution of the United States of America (Yay)

and those who don't :puke:

THANK YOU, DENNIS KUCINICH!! :patriot:

Recomm'd.

[crickets]

39. Exactly. Go, Dennis! -nt

:dem:

[Golden Raisin]

43. I want to see that roll-call!

[BornagainDUer]

9. K&R! Let's see what happens.

[stimbox]

11. Thank you Dennis!

:yourock:

[krkaufman]

12. What the hell has taken him so long? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

16. It's only been one month since he mentioned this idea. n/t

[rockybelt]

13. GO DENNIS, GO

Dennis, I hope that you are aware of this post.
You have definately gotten my support for your bid to the Presidency.
GO DENNIS, GO!!!!!!:bounce: :kick:

[mikelgb]

14. Everyone gen on the horn to your critter and insist that they NOT VOTE TO TABLE!

[NekoChris]

15. I emailed

My rep for this. He's a freshman so I don't think he'll go for it, I can't blame him, but maybe he'll surprise me.

[TheMadMonk]

92. Begin with a question: Are you in the game for yourself or your country?

There is nothing noble in preserving one's own arse; in expediency; in fighting only the safe battles.

True nobility emerges when someone throws it all away for what is right.

IF

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling

[slipslidingaway]

17. I called and asked my Republican Rep. to at least vote present,

there is no way he'll go against this administration. If they will not vote for it, at least do not vote against it.

[AntiFascist]

18. K&R, It's about time! n/t

[rodeodance]

197. past time as he has been promising this for a long time

[T.Ruth2power]

19. K&R

n/t

[humbled_opinion]

21. Symobolic at best.. Its getting way past time for the Democrats to do anyting for real. n/t

[PurpleChez]

27. I hate to say that I agree with you....

I still admire the hell out of Kucinich for doing this when so many others will not, but the time for this sort of action was five years ago. I know that every day means more lives lost, but I still get cynical and start thinking that we're approaching the time when they'll be out of there before anything takes effect. I want it on record, though--who voted for the Constitution and who voted for Baron Von Pissypants's dictatorship.

[FREEWILL56]

46. It's never too late for justice to be served.

Just because they are nearing the ends of their terms does not mean they are not prosecutable. They tend to enjoy the perks of having been retired from 'service' to their country and if found guilty they are proven to have been a diservice and ineligible for any of the retirement benefits and secret service protections.

[MuseRider]

67. Wow, life for those two

without secret service could prove rather scary.

[NYC Liberal]

75. Nah, they've got Blackwater for that!

That and lots of land in Paraguay, remember.

[MuseRider]

99. Oh yeah.

I forgot about them. Oh well, I was kinda hoping they would have a small taste of living in fear themselves since they seem to think it is OK to scare the bejesus out of us.

[NYC Liberal]

116. I'll bet Blackwater will protect them for free

I mean, if I were running Blackwater I sure would...considering all the cash Bush has brought them.

[info being]

49. The time for this was Jan 2007

[WheelWalker]

86. The time for a thing is when it happens. We cannot be other

than in the moment.

This might not achieve the named outcome, but it will affect and effect what becomes.
Support the moment. Live in and of the moment.
Is, is what is. All else is not.

[rodeodance]

131. nice and BINGO

[antigop]

136. With that post, I would call you "The Village Sage". Thank you. n/t

[clixtox]

141. It is never a wrong time...

To do the right thing!

[calimary]

178. So let's add some more drops of water - might eventually make an ocean.

Welcome to DU! Seize the moment for what it is and what you might be able to make of it.

Every little thing...

[MNDemNY]

154. no, Jan. 2001

[humbled_opinion]

52. Now that I agree with because ...

1st we do not know who the next President will be and God forbid it is someone as divisive or more than the current idiot. The question that Congress must ask is How much trampling of the Constitution will they allow the Executive in the name of Terra...

Its way past time to reign in this ass clown.

[ideagarden]

34. let the patriots stand

Even symbolism is better than inaction. I'd rather fight and loose than sit on my ass. (yeah thats a pun to the democrats mascot).

[chatnoir]

143. Even if just symbolism, at this point it is better than nothing at all , imo

Though I wish it had been attempted many moons ago. I'd rather go down fighting than do nothing as the world goes up in smoke.

[hootinholler]

74. NO! Impeachment = no pardons.

Clinton let Iran-Contra go. They must be held to account.

-Hoot

[MadHound]

140. Still, at this point symbols are important, especially in the realm of foreign relations

For years and decades, the people of foreign lands had a dichotomous split when it came to their opinions of the US. They disliked our government, but loved American people in general. Now that we've installed Bushboy twice, not only do they despise our government, but they are holding the US people responsible and despise us. Bringing an impeachment into play would go a long way to reassuring foreign nations that the American people are indeed paying attention to what's going on in our government, and are at least attempting to restore the rule of law to our country. That would go a long way to improving our image abroad.

[Initech]

22. This is who should be president.

[mikelgb]

23. kick

[diane in sf]

24. You go Dennis!

I'll be calling my rep

[Chovexani]

25. Kooch is the fucking man

:kick:

[0007]

26. I hope Lynne Cheney is in the deal also. nt

[baseballhead]

28. I think

he is just doing this to keep people from thinking he is a little wacko over the ufo stuff. I am sorry to say it will not happen. Nice try, though.

[Joe Chi Minh]

54. "baseballhead"! A most excellent name. Apposite to the nth degree.

Doesn't do to paint yourself as a wacko, just before accusing someone else, you know.

[me b zola]

93. You've got it backwards

That ufo stuff was brought up to try to discredit Dennis because he has been forcefully calling for the impeachment of cheney.

[puebloknot]

118. Dennis Kucinich has a great deal more depth and intelligence ...

...than to put on a side show to distract from the "ufo stuff." Many of us have seen unidentified flying objects. That does not make us "wackos." It says a great deal more about the lack of character in someone who enjoys ridiculing such events, than it does about those who are courageous enough to talk about something that is, by definition, unknown, and needs the exploration of good minds.

There is no doubt that Dennis Kucinich knows *exactly* what the chances are for impeachment to happen, against Cheney or Bush. He is taking a step to force the Congress to step up to the plate and declare where they stand. That, in itself, is a mark of courage that is sorely missing in most of the other members of the Congress.

Yes, regardless of the end result, I think this courageous act *will* go down in history as a *very* nice try!

[tandem5]

30. could, may, possibly, will... all very nice words... I, however, prefer -

he DID it, he FORCED it, he INTRODUCED it - it's DONE.

[arikara]

32. k&r!!!

Go Dennis!

[Lerkfish]

35. sadly, CNN is now posting developing that two democrats WILL vote for him

Two Democrats say they will vote for Bush's attorney general pick, virtually ensuring the nomination will move to the full Senate.

[spag68]

96. Schumer is one

and believe me he has gotten a large dose of smack-down from me, suggesting any money i donate will go to edwards or dodd unless he caves in too.

[mark414]

38. great great news. put the warmongers and fascists on the record.

[mvd]

40. Yea! Go Dennis!!

:bounce: :bounce:

[lame54]

41. Whatever we can do to help Dennis - call on us

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qGwvSwOP7Ow

[LWolf]

72. We can call our reps and tell them we support this effort! n/t

[Prophet 451]

42. You're gonna go down in flames, Kooch

and I think you know that.

But Lord fucking bless you for trying.

[allisonthegreat]

44. I want action!!n/t

[antigop]

45. So what will the MSM talk about next week to divert attention? n/t

[lame54]

149. Somebody send Brittany some underwear

[montanto]

169. Brittany?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany

I dont get it

[Rosa Luxemburg]

47. The world's survival depends on Nancy Pelosi

everyone in the world will thank Pelosi (as she is the only one who can get Dennis's impeachment resolution to the floor). Otherwise we are doomed - look forward to a nuclear winter or 2.

[ForeignSpectator]

51. I refuse to acknowledge that world's survival should depend on this absolutely pathetic, sorry ass

excuse for speaker of the House.

[Desertrose]

48. Rock on Dennis!!

K&R

[katty]

50. Come on Magic Elf, just DO IT!!

[galileo3000]

53. Senator Kucinich is very brave

I applaud his courage, I just don't think this will give the results many would like. My concern is that it will further alienate and dissipate the heterogeneous makeup of the Democratic Party. Perhaps I'm just paranoid.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[WheelWalker]

83. Hey, be nice. It's only an idiot who never felt like one.....

Why don't you go out and refill your prescription? Then remember to take your meds.

[miles 2 go]

85. He's the only one with balls. Idiot? No, I don't think so.

I think he is the only one who really knows whats going on and has the balls to bring it to light. The more I see of him, the more I like him.

[WheelWalker]

89. I couldn't agree with you more, comrade....

Reckless heroism in the defense of liberty is no lunacy. Arise Apollo Far Striker and shine the Light!

[miles 2 go]

151. You are so right! He should sit on his hands and be careful like the rest

of the worthless lot. Wouldn't want to upset the fucking republicans would we? I am so sick of the "we can't do that because we don't have the votes" and the "we better apologize because we were out of line for saying the truth" fucking attitude of all of them right now, that I could just scream. They need to do the peoples' will. And the people want new government. All the people in the WORLD want new US government!

[me b zola]

100. Is cowpowr the same a being fueled by cow shit?

:hurts:

[WheelWalker]

102. Good to see you again, me b zola - me b yodananda

[cartach]

105. No,he has the ability to blow you away with

one humongous fart.A real ripper.

[me b zola]

111. Nah, I survived the gas chamber in boot camp

...I'll survive that gaseous blow-hard.

[racaulk]

110. I predict that you will receive a granite pizza in the near future.

You are correct in that Kucinich is a Congressman and not a Senator, but do you have to be so rude while making this correction? Furthermore, if you are going to throw around insults, you should write like you have better than a fourth grade education.

Since you're a newbie, I'll point out that DU has a spell checker feature that you can use when posting, which would have caught and corrected the "hs's" and "fuccking" in your post. Also, I believe you meant to use the contraction "you're" in your first sentence, not the adjective "your." It is also proper to capitalize the first word of sentences, last names, and titles such as Senator and Congressman. It would also serve you well to check into the proper rules of punctuation.

Also, if you are going to call Kucinich a lunatic, you should understand that in the Psychiatric profession that term was a precursor to what is currently known as mental illness. Do you have any proof or knowledge that Kucinich currently suffers from mental illnesses that would warrant the use of the word "lunatic" to describe him? If so, please present it--I'm sure this would make an interesting read. If not, then you are knowingly throwing around unwarranted insults against one of our more progressive members of Congress, which would lead me to believe that you are perhaps posting on the wrong message board.

You have made a total of two posts so far here on DU, and the first one was just as antagonistic as the one to which I am currently replying. If you want to productively add to the dialog here, then you can start by not being so hostile to the other members of this community right out of the starting gate. Otherwise, you will find yourself with the label of "troll" early on and most of your future posts will be dismissed by many others rather quickly as the rantings of an asshole.

My two cents. Welcome to DU.

[ima_sinnic]

120. hee hee, great post!

as a frustrated copy editor, I have often felt the urge to attach a note like this to papers I'm forced to clean up. but since I like the income and the opportunity to work at home, I must resist that urge. :D

[ima_sinnic]

119. wow--enjoy what will be a very brief stay

within your first 2 posts you have already violated the DU rules and belittled another poster. only a visitor from "that other board" would be so mean-spirited and nasty.

and calling Dennis Kucinich a "lunatic" just shows you have no insight, no great amount of wisdom, and certainly no intelligence.

[graywarrior]

55. The more "impeachment" is used, the better.

[shenmue]

56. Yay!

Go Dennis! :patriot:

[Auggie]

57. Impeach! Impeach! Impeach!

[StClone]

58. Dennis How can we help?

I can give some advice: Don't assume anything.

Two. The Winger Wailers are trying to turn the UFO story into something. Just remind them that Reagan not only claimed two UFO sightings, his Star Wars plan included fending off Aliens.

[MissDeeds]

60. Thanks for this

I'd forgotten about Reagan and the aliens.

[MissDeeds]

59. Go get 'em Dennis

If he says "momentum is building for impeachment", I believe him. Now, if the others will follow his lead and not wimp out. Can't wait to see the votes on this one.

[MuseRider]

69. I think all the momentum

is with us sadly. If we were truly represented it would be a done deal, like 5 years ago.

[Hulk]

61. BRAVO!!! Now we can finally see their colors...all of them!!

History will show the heroes and the cowards in this government. Kucinich has more courage and grit than the whole repug side of the aisle in BOTH houses.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. I think I like Kucinich even more than Edwards! nt

[DianaForRussFeingold]

73. K&R..They need to team up to win!!! Kucinich/Edwards or Edwards/Kucinich

Biden too !!! If they don't team up...I'm afraid it will be Clinton/LieBerman. Check out their voting record.... I'm afraid it's already a done deal... We really should choose a candidate capable of re-uniting America... not just re-uniting the Republicans in opposition. A candidate who has the integrity and maturity to admit when he or she has made a mistake... Eight years of arrogant stubbornness and polarization is more than enough... Go Dennis!!!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

191. I wish!!!! nt

[redqueen]

65. I can't wait. FINALLY something to shut the haters up...

pff, no...what am I thinking? They'll just find some other crap to harp about.

:eyes:

[Eagle_Eye]

68. Go Kucinich! GO!

I want to see cheney in full disgrace in front of the American people.

[lovuian]

70. Love Dennis

:woohoo:

[SlowDownFast]

71. Believe it when I see it.

And even then, it will come to naught.

When and IF Bush OR Cheney are impeached, I will take my shotgun and promptly hunt a crow to eat.

[pat_k]

76. "Lying us into war" doesn't force an "up or down" vote on "unitary exec". . .

It doesn't force an "up or down" vote on torture.

Cheney may be a maniac about not putting anything in writing, but he is proud of his fascist fantasy that the Office of the President can violate the Constitution and U.S. Code as long as a President claims to be doing it to protect us. His own public statements condemn him. He proudly advocates torture and dismissively labels waterboarding "dunking" -- making it clear that he sees absolutely no problem with American torturers "dunking" those the President unilaterally and arbitrarily labels "terrorist."

A man who laughs off Geneva, a man who calls torture "dunking," a man who promotes the devastating, Un-American, and Unconstitutional "doctrine" of absolute and unlimited Presidential power is an intolerable threat that cannot be entrusted with the power of office for another minute. Impeachment and removal is the ONLY means to safeguard the People's Government and the Constitution.

The accusation is a simple one. By his own words and deeds Cheney condemns himself (as does Bush). There is no defense or "explanation" that can make the intolerable acts tolerable. There is nothing to debate. It is time to stand in judgment. All that remains is to vote "up or down." Vote to impeach and Say NO to torture and authoritarian rule or Vote against impeachment and declare Congress powerless and declare the USA a War Criminal nation.

Any shot that Kucinich would actually "keep it simple"? Any shot that he really will boil it down to the "core"?

Or will his foul it up by going with "Lying us into war?" or some other offense that opens up a dozen ways to obscure the simple truth of our national crisis?

[MisterHowdy]

77. I don't see Hillary initiating this.

lol.

I'm just saying.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

80. I'm afraid she's with Bush and LieBerman on this issue

:rofl: she's certainly not with us

[tavalon]

78. Good

Madame Speaker should have done this already.

[WheelWalker]

79. Damn the torpedos, Captain.....

We're with you full speed ahead !!!

[whistle]

81. Great Dennis, keep it going, American voter outrage is building

[Unveiled19]

82. Not gonna happen

[sakabatou]

84. .

[Independent_Liberal]

101. If impeachment proceedings actually began within days, you naysayers would still be in denial and

saying, "No, it isn't happening. It isn't happening." Now who are ones that are out of touch with reality?

;)

[chatnoir]

144. ??

[file83]

88. "Dennis, I'm you're Father..."

"Nooooooooo!!!"

[texpatriot2004]

90. Thank you Dennis Kucinich nm

[electron_blue]

95. Good. Frankly I'm tired of hearing people talk about impeachment and doing squat

about it.

[gulliver]

97. Cheney impeachment now one Bacon from UFOs

Timing could have been better.

[everydayis911]

98. Don't go flying

On any planes there Dennis. And his chances got a little better on the presidential ladder.

http://bigheaddc.com/2007/09/21/lesbian-rumors-getting-under-hillarys-skin/

[me b zola]

103. Thank you Dennis!

:thumbsup:

[TechBear_Seattle]

104. Now this is MY kind of pandering

Of all the Democratic candidates, he is the only one willing to say the "I" word. I strongly suspect that he is doing what politicians do best, but dang it all, I wish more politicians were willing to pander to the people on the streets rather than Big Pockets.

Mr. Kucinich, sir: :headbang: :patriot:

[Indi Guy]

106. It's ball-check time for the Dem leadership.

k&r

[upi402]

109. look in purses

:wow:

[WindRavenX]

107. DK makes me proud

:thumbsup:

[upi402]

108. Go Dennis!!!

:spank:

[Drum]

114. So do it already.

:eyes:

[orleans]

115. GO! GO! GO! GO! (cheerleading squad here) GO! GO! GO! GO! GOOOO DENINS! n/t

[bjobotts]

117. At least this way the world will know that there was an attempt to impeach

Cheney that was voted on in the House. The vote will be noted and will demonstrate the national feeling toward this war monger and war profiteer. It will be said that at least many Americans...enough to get congress to vote on it...think Cheney should be impeached. He will come to be known as the VP who was two steps away from impeachment. The VP with Happy Feet standing on the peachment.
Dennis Kucinich...the only real change out there. He claims his first day in office he will have Bush and Cheney (and others involved in getting us into Iraq)...arrested. Bush and Cheney arrested by the president. Now that's a sight I'd pay to see.

[orpupilofnature57]

121. Nancy could stand to see that Unfettered Forceful Offensive ,or

would she think it didn't exist.

[Norrin Radd]

122. k+r

[Kablooie]

123. I wish I could get excited about this...

but I'm absolutely certain that it will fail miserably and give Cheney and Bush more self righteous confidence.
It will be turned into a GOP publicity coup.

I don't believe our Congress today is about doing what's right or upholding our constitutional system.

They are all dedicated to playing a game by rules set by the corrupt Republicans. No one has the integrity
or strength to change the game. And since it's not their game, they can't win and know it so they will
continue to toady around the administration while making hollow threats that both sides know will
never come to pass.

It's nice that Kucinich wants to try but he doesn't have the hutzpah to pull the others in Congress along
with him and without that it could do more damage than good. The only positive thing, I guess, is that it
will show how weak and inconsequential our Congress is, (if that can be considered positive.)

I've lost all faith in this Congress.

period.

[rodeodance]

132. the fact that it will be ON the floor (or that they have to vote to Table it)---is good in my book

[orpupilofnature57]

135. Hell Yes!! it's a sign ,something.

[creeksneakers2]

125. Charge Cheney with what?

With Bush you can make a case that he ordered torture or wiretapping, but Cheney doesn't have the power to order anything. What laws did he break? The only things Kucinich is going to accomplish is further division and embarrassment of the Democratic Party

[lonestarnot]

129. Oh bullshit.

Dicko the fucko can be charged with Darth Vaderism. He takes great pride in the analogy and the characterization.

[creeksneakers2]

181. A resolution charging Dicko Fucko with Darth Vaderism

would receive no votes.

[John Q. Citizen]

137. But will it be as big of an embarrassment and as divisive as Bill banging Monica was? Or

was Bill banging Monica and then lying about it a clever move and good for the party?

Will it be as big of an embarrassment as Hill, Edwards, Biden and Dodd voting to give bush the right to loot and pillage Iraq? Or was that good for the party, you know, non divisive and all, this after a majority of Dems in the house voted against looting and pillaging?

In the big picture of embarrassments and divisiveness, where do you think this privileged resolution falls?

I'm just wondering, because it seems you only worry about embarrassments and divisiveness that don't involve the Clintons. And because of that, it seems you only worry about selective embarrassments and divisiveness.

Heck, in my mind, this falls way down the list. It's popular with Dem voters, that's for sure, far more popular than Bill's dalliances and the cover-up, and far more popular than the minority of Dem votes to let bush loot and pillage Iraq.

Here's a link to the Kucinich impeachment bill. It's widely available and it should answer your questions about what the bill charges Chaney with. Google is your friend. Are you familiar with google? i don't mind looking it up for you, but if you are interested enough to ask the questions, it only follows that you might be interested enough to look it up and find out the answers, instead of assuming stuff.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.RES.333:

[creeksneakers2]

142. You didn't specify a crime

Neither did Kucinich. There is no crime called failure to faithfully execute the laws.

The Clintons have never offered an impeachment resolution.

Yes, the Democrats who voted for IWR did cause a MAJOR embarrassment for the party. Impeachment wouldn't be as bad but its going to be in the top five at least. How can you vote to impeach without a crime? Its never been done because its unconstitutional.

[Heywood J]

156. "How can you vote to impeach without a crime?"

Impeachment is political, not criminal. Hence the charged official being tried in Congress, not in a court. There is no standard for evidence, no requirement for unanimity among the "jurors". The whole process, from start to finish, is political by definition.

Officials in the past (judges, actually) have been impeached for incompetence and failure to do their duty, which is not a crime. A crime need not be committed if DK can prove they're incompetent for the position. The penalty is removal from office, again not a criminal penalty. They won't be imprisoned if convicted.


To assert that impeachment for a non-crime is "unconstitutional" is to have no idea how the process is actually supposed to work.

[creeksneakers2]

176. Impeachment decisions cannot be reviewed by the courts

That does not mean they are constitutional. Since the drafting of the constitution, there has been a debate about whether an actual crime is required. If there was no crime, and a crime is required, and the Congress impeached without a crime, their decision could not be reviewed but would not be constitutional either.

The constitution is applied to all three branches and all three are expected to follow it.

Hope this gives you an idea about how its supposed to work.

In regard to impeaching judges where no crime is involved, there are reasons for a special case to be made. One is that judges are under no term limit from the voters. The only way they can be removed from office is impeachment.

Article III section 1 states: "The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour....." So the constitution intended for judges to be judged by a different standard, the standard of "good behaviour."

[John Q. Citizen]

164. Have you ever read the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon? I suggest you do.

It might give you a better understanding of the process of impeachment.

You also might read the constitution as relates to impeachment.

[creeksneakers2]

177. See #176

Nixon's impeachment articles included matters that were criminal and not criminal. No decision was ever made on the question of whether or not a crime was required. Nixon quit first.

[WheelWalker]

184. "A President is impeachable if...

he attempts to subvert the Constitution.”

- James Madison at Virginia’s ratification convention


Blessings upon the Right Honorable, Dennis Kucinich!

[stimbox]

161. Here are the charges

The resolution charges that Vice President Cheney:
1) has purposely manipulated the intelligence process to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States by fabricating a threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, as well as
2) fabricating a threat about an alleged relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda, in order to justify the use of the U.S. Armed Forces against Iraq in a manner damaging to U.S. national security interests; and
3) in violation of his constitutional oath and duty, has openly threatened aggression against Iran absent any real threat to the United States, and has done so with the proven U.S. capability to carry out such threats, thus undermining U.S. national security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_House_Resolution_333


And as usual the DLCers are upset that it might divide and embarass the Democratic Party.
Is that all you guys care about? Appearances? Ohhhh we can't do that the Republicans and Fox News won't like us and they'll say bad things about us.
:puke:

[kenfrequed]

165. And lets not forget Fisa

Violating the law concerning wiretaps is not made legal merely by presidential fiat.

Nor can congress pass an ex-post facto law to protect a president retroactively.

This charge stands no matter what.

[creeksneakers2]

170. Cheney did not order FISA violations

Cheney is the vice president. He can't order anything.

[kenfrequed]

171. Well

Actually I was more interested in impeaching the president.

I think for the VP obstruction of justice would be as good a charge to load onto the ones already mentioned by others.

[creeksneakers2]

174. The public won't like it either

And they vote. I am not a DLCer or even close. I do differ from those who don't care if the party loses elections or not. The real world is far more important than impotent symbolic gestures.

[stimbox]

175. Doing the RIGHT thing is more important than winning elections!

If you ignore the crimes of this administration just to win elections, what good is it?

You may not be a DLCer but your positions and arguements sure match theirs.

[creeksneakers2]

182. Its not only DLCers but almost everybody recognizes

that one cannot "do the right thing" without power, which comes from elections.

Just because impeachment isn't warranted doesn't mean the crimes are being ignored.

[stimbox]

187. The fictional appeal to everybody.

Nice try, but you can do the right thing right now.
If we don't persue impeachment then it will all get swept under the rug like the Iran-contra scandal.
Hey, what's a few warcrimes among co-conspiritors (enablers).

[John Q. Citizen]

188. As regards Article #3, it's also in violation of our signed treaties, which the constitution clearly

states have the force of law.

[Vidar]

186. Oh boo hoo.

[HughMoran]

126. It's about time!

I wonder who will be cowards and who will do the right thing for the sake of the country?

[ileus]

130. This isn't going to help him get the VP bid....

[Joey Liberal]

134. Sadly, his fellow Dems will wimp out, as usual n/t

[windoe]

145. DK

needs back up.

[Kaleko]

190. Better to back a good cause than moaning about no backbone.

:hi:

Go, Dennis, Go!!!!

[lonestarnot]

146. kick

[Dukkha]

147. Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible

Godspeed Dennis!

[L. Coyote]

148. Recommending a thread has never been quite so gratifying ever before. Make it a 2FER!

[mopinko]

150. did he say what year?

seems to me this story went around once already.

[bluedog]

152. and the results will be?

the motion gets tabled........21 Democrats who signed on will vote yes.........the Democrats who have elections coming up will vote NO..all GOP'ers will vote NO...........

I think this will unite the GOP base.....and we'll be in a in a fight of our lifetime in the next presidential election......bush poll numbers will go up......no party wants "their" president or VP impeached......

OR:

he will get impeached...bush will choose 1 of the GOP top tier candidates to replace him and the 2008 will be in the GOP bag..........

[Mister Ed]

155. My friend, we ARE in the fight of our lifetime

A viciously corrupt man, whose only legally-sanctioned roles are to pound the gavel in the Senate and be on hand in case the president dies, has gathered sweeping, extra-legal dictatorial powers. He is using those powers to bury the U.S. Constitution, wage wars of conquest, and reduce the legislature (and the Democratic Party) to a mere debating society.

The politics you have known and practiced are being buried right along with the Constitution. The aim of impeachment efforts is to restore democracy so that the electorate can once again share power through the political process you describe.

[WheelWalker]

167. Even the wise cannot see all ends. nt

[kenfrequed]

173. Absurd.

The 'swelling bush's popularity argument' has no basis in fact. None. I have no idea why one of the least popular presidents in recent memory, with all of his lies and chicanery would suddenly get a poll boost from the Democrats actually doing what the voters put them there to do.

Doing nothing will be a much greater vote sink than anything. A lot of voters turned out and turned on to voting Democrat in opposition to Bush and in opposition to the war, the 'values voters' did what they usually did. The Democrats in congress going after Bush on this (having exhausted all other recourse) will only win popularity with the majority of the American people. While the conservatives still staying in office seeking reelection will have to run twice as hard away from bush and defend their votes defending him.

As to uniting the GOP base, they are about as united as they could or will ever get. And the fractures in that coalition of Religious conservatives, Neo con chicken hawks, "constitutional conservatives, and economic conservatives will not be magically healed by impeachment hearings.

Particularly when those hearings highlight the very crimes that have put Bush's polling numbers in the toilet.

This is not a mere sex scandel. This is not Clinton all over again. I am tired of so many people still analyzing this like its either 'business as usual' or still pretending like its the 90's.

[earth mom]

153. I'm hoping something will come of this, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm really starting to believe that all hope is just about lost for this country & what it was founded upon. :cry:

[WheelWalker]

163. "When you come to a fork in the path, take it...."

There is no act, nor intention to act, that does not carry with it a consequence.

Will this intention to impeach achieve the specific outcome it seeks? Probably not, for several reasons many of which are discussed in this thread.

Will this intention change the world? Most certainly. Every act - every thought - is a beginning. Every beginning is a fork in the path.

[Mister Ed]

180. Well said, well thought-out, and WEL-come........to DU!

:hi:

[WheelWalker]

183. Thank you very much. Expectations are often frustrated by

the actions and intentions of others upon the path.

I'm quite certain that moving for impeachment will tend to frustrate the expectations of more than one Repug, and several Repug-compliant Dems.

The gift of imagination is the power to shift the paradigm.

[Vidar]

185. Thoughtful post. Welcome to DU.

[WheelWalker]

192. Thank you. I shall endeavor to be worthy of the community.....and I,

too, support Cindy Sheehan, as well as all others who have chosen to travel the path of peace.

[defendandprotect]

157. This should have happened a long time ago -- go Dennis -- !!!!

[WheelWalker]

168. I respect your preference. However, please see

this village idiot's post, #86 above

[MilesColtrane]

158. Pretty sure Kucinich can't "force a vote" on anything.

That's up to the discretion of the Speaker of the House.

[felipe]

159. Let us support Dennis

Dennis needs our full support in making this through.

Go Dennis:toast:

[sarcasmo]

160. Kick.

[stimbox]

162. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

Drats!

[ooglymoogly]

166. ditto nt

[antigop]

199. Thanks for the rec! n/t

[Zorra]

189. Why, why, why don't more Dem legislators serve the People like DK?

It's just so darn frustrating. He says, and does, exactly the right thing, but he gets so little support from his legislative colleagues.
:banghead:
I guess maybe it is because he is not beholden to any transnational corporations.

Anyway, Rep. Kucinich is perhaps the only modern day legislator that is on a par with the founders of our nation, and I think Jefferson and Madison would take that as a compliment.

[upi402]

193. my contention: because they're not Dems

They're whores to coporate fascism whick controls both parties, all 3 branches. and the media/propaganda organ too.

I could be wrong...

[rodeodance]

194. fax/emails of your REP. this weekend and call (Toll FREE):Re Cheney Impeachment:

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject fax/emails of your REP. this weekend and call (Toll FREE):Re Cheney Impeachment:
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2197029#2197029
2197029, fax/emails of your REP. this weekend and call (Toll FREE):Re Cheney Impeachment:
Posted by rodeodance on Sat Nov-03-07 08:56 AM

edited to ask to please contact the REPS who are co-sponcering this Resolution------they are Brave----let them know (see below).


another edit to add part of email I just got:

Matthew Gerbasi for PDA wrote:
> Forward this newsletter to a friend
>
>
> Kucinich to move on impeachment next week!
>
> Dear xxxxx,
>
> During the week of November 5, Dennis J. Kucinich, Congressman from Ohio, will introduce on the floor of the House of Representatives a bill to impeach Vice President Cheney. Exercising his right of personal privilege, his courageous act will put members of the House on record. Are they going to fulfill their oath of office to “defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic”--or just look the other way?
>
> Our nation and our Constitution are in crisis! You can make a difference! You and your neighbors can make a difference.
>
>
> Take the opportunity to call your member of Congress toll free:
> 1-800-828-0498
> 1-800-862-5530
> 1-800-833-6354
> ____________________
>
> Kucinich Calling for Town Hall Meetings
> Monday, November 5 at 7 pm ET, 6 pm CT, 5 pm MT, 4 pm PT



Flood the fax/emails of your REP. this weekend and call next week: Re Cheney Impeachment:


upcoming vote in House. "H. Res. 333, Articles of Impeachment against the Vice President"

And pass this around-----everyone must do their part in helping Kucinich with this
resolution!! We have to make this happen!!------NO couch potatoes allowed.

No doubt the a Repug will ask to have the Resolution Tabled---but DK will get them on RECORD!

And call your Senators and ask them to support this Resolution please.


http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject Kucinich says he will force House vote on Cheney impeachment
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3051778#3051778
3051778, Kucinich says he will force House vote on Cheney impeachment
Posted by antigop on Fri Nov-02-07 12:59 PM

Source: Raw Story

Nick Juliano
Published: Friday November 2, 2007

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) announced he would move to force a vote next week on his resolution calling for the impeachment of Vice President Dick Cheney.

“The momentum is building for impeachment,” Kucinich said in a statement on his Web site. “Millions of citizens across the nation are demanding Congress rein in the Vice President’s abuse of power.

Kucinich said he plans to introduce a privileged resolution, which would have priority for a House floor vote, on Nov. 6. A vote on the measure would be required within two days.

Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Kucinich_says_he_will_force_House_1102.html

.....

Observers expect a motion to table Kucinich's resolution, which has 21 Democratic co-sponsors. It is almost certain that such a move to kill the resolution would be successful, but activists are urging members of Congress to support Kucinich's move.

"We need you to ask your representative to vote No on tabling, Yes on giving impeachment a chance," wrote David Swanson on the pro-impeachment Website AfterDowningStreet.org. "Those who vote Yes to table cannot use the excuse that 'We don't have the votes,' since others will at that same instant with exactly the same exertion be voting No. Please scroll down to contact Congress and the media right away!"

Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has long said that impeachment was "off the table" and Kucinich has had little success spurring legislative action on his resolutions, despite the growing number of lawmakers who have signed on as co-sponsors since it was introduced this spring.

Kucinich's full statement is reprinted below:............
...............
"We need you to ask your representative to vote No on tabling, Yes on giving impeachment a chance," wrote David Swanson on the pro-impeachment Website AfterDowningStreet.org. "Those who vote Yes to table cannot use the excuse that 'We don't have the votes,' since others will at that same instant with exactly the same exertion be voting No. Please scroll down to contact Congress and the media right away!"

Kucinich's full statement is reprinted below:........


H. Res. 333, Articles of Impeachment against the Vice President, has 21 cosponsors. They are: Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Robert Brady (D-PA), Yvette Clarke (D-NY), Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-MO), Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN), Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), Rep. Sam Farr (D-CA), Rep. Bob Filner (D-CA), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep. Henry Johnson (D-GA), Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI), Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA), Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA), Rep. James Moran (D-VA), Rep. Donald Payne (D-NJ), Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY), Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA), Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) and Rep. Albert Wynn (D-MD).

[treestar]

198. Go Dennis!

Get that traitorous old SOB.

[nancyharris]

201. An impeachment vote would be disastrous for the Democratic Party.

If Congressman Kucinich does offer the resolution (and I am still not convinced he will) it would be a disastrous move for the Democratic Party. Don’t be so sure that the Republicans will vote to table this resolution. They may well vote against tabling it to force the Democratic Representatives to take a public stand on the main question. Most of the Democratic Representatives will vote against an impeachment on the main question not because they are afraid but rather because they do not really believe that the Vice President should be impeached. The American public will see it as nothing more than a political payback for the Clinton impeachment (and that’s much of what it is). It will also force the Democratic candidates to publicly support (or not) a resolution for impeachment which none of them (except Congressman Kucinich) have, to date, made part of their campaign. It will tear the Democratic Party even further apart.

Stop Dennis, Stop!

[Nihil]

207. Not "disastrous for the Democratic Party" but possibly ...

... "disastrous for the gutless over-paid jobsworths in the Democratic Party".

> The American public will see it as nothing more than a political payback for
> the Clinton impeachment

That really makes me laugh ... all of the fuss about Clinton was due to
a semen stain on a willing participant's dress yet impeachment was most
definitely "on the table". Bush & co have KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
from different nations and the "Democratic Party" are too fucking gutless
to even suggest a move of censure.

> It will also force the Democratic candidates to publicly support (or not)
> a resolution for impeachment which none of them (except Congressman Kucinich)
> have, to date, made part of their campaign.

Maybe it will jog a few guilty consciences too for having dodged the hard
issues in politics for the sake of a quiet, cushy life on the gravy train.

> It will tear the Democratic Party even further apart.

Only in as much as it would make plain the extent of corporatist penetration
into the Democratic Party rather than allowing the pretence to continue even
longer.

[Psephos]

212. Post-game analysis - you were highly prophetic, and politically astute

It's hard to put personal feelings aside, but keeping the current thin majorities requires we play to win, not to just feel good.

[lonestarnot]

202. Kick

[burrowowl]

203. All you moaners! Stop moaning and call your

Congress Critter, you never know and e-mail them the NLG Resolution posted by Hissyspit!

[stimbox]

204. Bouncey, Bouncey!

:bounce: :bounce:

[cstanleytech]

205. Why the heck focus on this now.

I would much rather he focus on real issues like either finding a way to lower gas prices or to find out whats really causing oil to spike so much so fast as well.
Sure Bush has done alot of things I would impeach him for but his dang terms almost over, Kucinich in my opinion is losing focus on the big picture and in the big picture impeaching Bush just wont do anything now.
The ones who should have impeached him but failed our nation anyway were the republicans, let them take the heat I say for it for the next 15 to 25+ years by not regaining the control of government.

[rhett o rick]

208. "Real issues"? What issue is more important than the reestablishment of the rule of law? nm

[cstanleytech]

209. If it was only that easy /sigh

As I said he should have been impeached long ago by the republicans but they lacked the brass to actually be a moral party (I know not a shocker to anyone really because they never really were but that aside it seems like the democrats should not be wasting time, power and resources now at this late stage to impeach a president who wont be in office but a bare year and some odd months more.
Heck it probably would take months to get hearings going and then you got the testimony to hear and we all know the Bush administration would fight it every inch of the way and that the republicans would filibuster any efforts.
After all an impeachment on Bush would be the final nail of condemnations about the past 20 years of the Republican party.

[rhett o rick]

210. Yeah, Democracy ain't easy. A dictatorship is easy. nm

[lonestarnot]

206. kick