Chavez, Ahmadinejad to work against US

[arcos]

Source: AP

TEHRAN, Iran - The presidents of Venezuela and Iran boasted Monday that they will defeat U.S. imperialism together, saying the fall of the dollar is a prelude to the end of Washington's global dominance.

Hugo Chavez's visit to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Tehran followed a failed weekend attempt by the firebrand duo to push the Organization of Petroleum Exporting States away from trading in the slumping greenback.

<snip>

"God willing, with the fall of the dollar, the deviant U.S. imperialism will fall as soon as possible, too," Chavez said after a two-hour closed meeting with Ahmadinejad, the Iranian state news agency IRNA reported.

As the dollar weakens, oil prices have soared toward $100 a barrel. Chavez said over the weekend at the OPEC meeting in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, that prices would more than double to $200 if the U.S. attacked Iran or Venezuela.

<snip>

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_venezuela;_ylt=ArkfXj1k4La3GJkFt2FU_Kqs0NUE

---

This article is obviously extremely biased, but anyway..... did I miss something? Since when is the US attacking Venezuela a possibility? (I know that under Bush EVERYTHING is possible, but seriously.... this is the first time that I've read such a thing in the media.)

[shance]

1. They're not working against the US, they are working against those holding the US hostage

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Beerboy]

38. So they're refusing to supply U.S. oil companies?

I see them profiting from those holding the US hostage, for a different view on your observation.

[Robbien]

2. We are right now attacking Venezuela. A huge expensive covert mission

is taking place where tons of money are being given to the elites in Venezuela to foment hatred of Chavez and the middle and lower classes with the purpose of disrupting December elections.

Thread At Smirking Chimp
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/11104

[EFerrari]

33. Thanks, Robbien. I bookmarked that article. And this AP hit piece

is just another in a stream. The dollar is falling and now it's Chavez fault.

[Mudoria]

51. What a dubious source. I wonder

if the author forgot his foil cap while dreaming this up...

[goforit]

3. BUSCHO has united many ............against us.

[bdamomma]

49. yes, he has done that, again Dr. Frank will be on Mike Malloy

as a rebroadcast tomorrow nite listen if have the chance.

[endarkenment]

4. Two attempts to overthrow Chavez so far.

And the next attempt is likely in progress.

[HuffleClaw]

5. i'd thought they'd already tried several times to kill chavez?

and are funding his 'opposition' too, real quiet-like to the tune of millions

[fascisthunter]

6. The US is the Number One Aggressor in the World

right now, thanks to conservative economics and the paranoid neo-nutcase ideology.

[boricua79]

7. may I say

that as much as I like many of Chavez' policies, I am severely disappointed by this development.

one thing is to advocate that you think American imperialism against another nation is wrong, even if that nation is a theocratic monstrosity that is an embarrassment to that people's history.

Quite another thing to actively ally oneself with the leader of that regime and work together.

I don't think a Latin-American democratic socialist regime that purports to work for the leftist ideals of humanism, fairness, and equality, should be working with a theocratic regime that, while including SOME democratic aspects, is essentially ruled by a clique of moron clerics whose values represent everything that Chavez' regime is not.

How would people feel if Chavez was shaking hands with Kim Jung Il, instead of Ahmedijenad? How about if it was Musharaff he was shaking hands with? What about the leaders of Burma (Myanmar)?

I'm pro-Chavez...but this I do not agree with at all. This is a mistake and I'm honest enough to admit it and to call for Chavez to keep his relationship with Iran at the friendly diplomatic level. This is TOO close.

[endarkenment]

8. Context: OPEC summit.

Other nations actively allied with Iran through OPEC:

Angola, Lybia, Nigeria, Algeria, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar. Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emerites, Ecuador, Indonesia.

I can assure that cordial greetings, probably including handshakes, were exchanged between all OPEC members.

[boricua79]

11. c'mon, buddy...you know what i mean

I don't mean diplomatic-style handshakes. Chavez has been allying himself a lot with Ahmedijanad and he's invited him over to Venezuela in very public overtures.

Again, I'm just saying that if we actually support progressive regimes, we shouldn't be looking the other way when leaders we support work too closely with leaders of horribly theocratic regimes. Would I shake hands with the president of Iran? As a show of common, gentleman courtesy, yes. Would I then say, "hey, come over to my country...let's talk about how our two countries can get closer", nah, not me.

My 2 cents.

[EFerrari]

16. If dining with the devil would piss off Bush, I think Chavez would

show up with a boxed corsage. :evilgrin:

[boricua79]

30. i'll admit

that from a purely "i wanna be an asshole" point of view, I'd do the same. But in political situations, the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

I'm concerned that this type of alliance is not good for Chavez or for the Venezuelan people or for his Venezuelan socialism project. And that, ultimately, is what is really important.

Chavez pisses off another socialist government (Zapatero), but makes friends with a horrendous, theocratic one? Doesn't make sense to me.

Regarding the Zapatero incident, although I agreed with his criticism of Aznar as being a fascist and pro-war supporter, there could have been a more diplomatic way for him to make his views known without interrupting.

Sometimes, Chavez' impulsive nature is fun to watch and right on the money. At other times, it becomes a negative for him.

[EFerrari]

31. He and Zapatero are okay. They spoke before he left

but that story was buried by all the negative press the zopilotes heap on him.

[Judi Lynn]

32. True to course, as always.If they can't get a really good negative spin, they'll make it up. n/t

[boricua79]

34. good to know

there are too many important issues in this world to deal with and all progressive minded people need to work together.

[martymar64]

45. Remember WW2? FDR and Churchill allied with Stalin

Same thing, seeking common ground to defeat a common enemy. We'll probably see more join that alliance before this is over.

[ret5hd]

50. I notice you never got a reply!

:rofl:

[ohio2007]

Gulf states back dollar as Iran, Venezuela mount atttack at OPEC

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/me_oil_11_18.asp

Gulf states are not "lock stepping" behind Hugo or Amadman.

But just the same, the rift between sides in the 3rd world Cold War are clear.

[ohio2007]

9. Gulf states back dollar as Iran, Venezuela mount atttack at OPEC

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/me_oil_11_18.asp

Gulf states are not "lock stepping" behind Hugo or Amadman.

But just the same, the rift between sides in the 3rd world Cold War are clear.

[eridani]

47. He's kissing up to the theocrats in the Catholic Church as well

Abortion is going to stay illegal for that reason. The other left wing governments are as well, figuring that having the oligarchs against them is bad enough without having the church on their case as well. It sucks. I'm saying that as a Chavez supporter.

[Psephos]

10. Follow the money

Every time Ahmadinejad and/or Chavez stir the pot with this kind of talk, the price of oil futures goes up.

Who benefits?

Not you or me, my friends. Expect plenty more of this kind of talk, because it pays big.

BTW, did anyone catch Ahmadinejad's statement that at $100/bbl, oil is *underpriced*? Record oil prices don't hurt wealthy people. These prices, driven regularly by bluster, are extraordinarily regressive against the poor.

[NeedleCast]

12. Ahhh Hugo, who will you not climb in bed with?

As long as it's good for a sound byte.

Fighting imperialism by being the #5 oil exporter to the US.

[aquart]

13. Whores really can't throw stones.

The US sleeps with the Saudis.

[NeedleCast]

36. Strawman

There's no Bush Administration cheerleading in my post. I think Bush and Chavez are two peas in a pod. Two tin potters who love to hear the sound of their own voice and don't mind much what sort of bullshit tumbles out. Chavez can bluster all he wants but he'll keep selling massive quantities of oil to the US because if he stops his economy will do an impression of a toilet being violently flushed and he wont be able to buy all the shiny military hardware he's been buying with all that money he's spending "on the people."

I'm not sleeping with the Saudi's, so I'm very comfortable with my assessment of Chavez.

[mrfixit]

40. If you live in 'Murka, your bed is full of Saudi Oil.

If Chavez does not sell oil to the USA, where do you NOT think he would be able to sell it?

Personally, apart from tweaking noses and pointing fingers, I think Chavez has been pretty subdued regarding his relations with the USA. If a foreign government attempted coups, fomented strikes and general protests as well as used NGOs to actively plot the POTUS' removal from office, what kind of response do you think the USA would take?

[Turbineguy]

14. Luckily for them

they have allies in the White House.

[kineneb]

15. workin' to defeat US imperialism?

Shoot, just standin' still, doing nothin' but watchin' the Darth and Dumbshit Show, theys'"working against us"... 'cause they ain't tryin' to get the Show stopped... sure bet they'd like Dumbshit to stop a' threatnin' them with war...

the Darth and Dumbshit Show: handin' out money to the rich folk an' playin' footsy with them Saudi guys...plays reel well with their "base"...

[Pavulon]

17. Put that money on my hand, put it there

little man..The theocrat and communist are opportunistic whores. We are his biggest customer. We are no better, we are motivated by money as well.

The chavez is christ folks may calm down a bit when we have a Democrat in office and this bullshit keeps up..

[liberalsoldier5]

18. Fuck Chavez.

And Ahmadinejad too. Now more than ever.

[EFerrari]

19. Well, if someone tried to get you killed or waged a dirty low grade war

against your country for years, what would you do? Show up with a bouquet?

[allisonthegreat]

20. Figures..The dollar keeps falling, and probably is doomed. n/t

[liberalsoldier5]

22. I'm not a "citizen of the world", unlike many here.

I'm a proud American citizen, and I choose to give my country a reasonable benefit of the doubt. Remember, both Democrats AND Republicans in Washington D.C. oppose Chavez. Even Pelosi's called him "a thug." He's not just anti-Bush, he's anti-American. And I'm proudly anti-Chavez.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Anti-American, Democrats hate him. Right.

You might want to communicate that to the Democratic Congressmen who contacted Venezuela over the last 3 years after the American oil companies blew them off when they begged them for dicounted heating oil rates for their poorer constituent areas.

Venezuela's oil company was the ONLY oil company to respond, said SENATOR KENNEDY. As a result, in the last three years, 16 states, and 163 Native American tribes have arranged a large discount to allow their poorer members to be able to make it through the winter.

Hugo Chavez also offered a TON of assistance to the U.S. IMMEDIATELY after the hurricane and flood devastated New Orleans, only to be told to kiss _{George W. Bush's} ass on behalf of the drowning, suffering, grieving people in that area. Your gracious pResident told them to go Cheney themselves, and take their assistance with them.

Apparently you're not going to be able to convince Democrats that you speak for them.

[EFerrari]

25. So, then, you supported our effort to illegally depose him,

to kidnap him, to lie to the people and say he had resigned and to attempt to kill him?

That's a lot of American "pride".

[LostinVA]

37. "liberalsoldier" -- riiiiight

I think you may have missed that right turn back there. Yeah, that one.

:eyes:

[eridani]

48. Whatchu mean "American"?

The Dems and Repubs opposing Chavez are corporate whores working for the 1% that own the world. Plenty of these proud "Americans" have their corporations headquartered offshore to avoid paying the bill for the protection they get from the American military, eg Halliburton moving to Dubai. Chavez is very much pro-the rest of us poor saps who just live here American.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Yeah right on we need some more wars!

fool.

[Beerboy]

39. No thanks, not now, not with a cow...He is a politician though,

so I can see how some would say what you say.
Hugo's doing a good job for the people of Venezuela, it doesn't mean people here have to like him.
There's a significant faction of ardent Chavezzers here on DU, I myself like a lot of his ideas for domestic governance.
I'm not gonna rip ya for Fuck Chavez though, you can say 'fuck' certain people on DU, like Ron Paul for instance.
Welcome to DU!:beer:

[1932]

21. If you're not working for us, you're working against us.

[killbotfactory]

24. If the US commits another criminal war of aggression against Iran or Ven., oil prices will skyrocket

What are we going to do, threaten to REALLY attack them if they turn the oil spigot off?

[EFerrari]

26. As if we're not attacking them now. n/t

[madrchsod]

27. big deal....

they think the chinese are any different than the united states? just ask the dead in darfur/sudan what they think of china.

[bhikkhu]

29. Since when? How about the "temporary coup"

during which the involvement of US interests and assets are well documented. Chavez is no idiot, though the ignorance of the media of this country would make him out so.

[EFerrari]

35. arcos -- remember what John Perkins said in Economic Hitman

and also in various interviews (I know of one archived at democracynow.org). First they send in people like him to corrupt the leadership. If that doesn't work, they send in disrupters and assassins. If that doesn't work, they send in the military.

They're at it again in Venezuela. This is a very dangerous moment, imho.

[Peace Patriot]

41. This is kind of an odd and interesting development--this AP story.

Some time ago, I read a brief news item--which quickly disappeared in the corporate news river of forgetfulness (and I don't remember the source--ha!--and didn't keep it)--that China, Russia and India (I'm pretty sure the third country was India) had met (or were going to meet) to discuss what to do about the lawless, superpower bully--U.S./Bush. I think it was around the time of our '06 elections, when talk of an imminent Bush/Cheney attack on Iran was especially hot (and the UK sailor thing was happening). So I figured the main topic among these three nuclear powers was Iran, and the U.S. threatening to attack it. The report was very brief and did not mention their agenda, other than this general purpose of containing the U.S.

The Bush Junta has gone out of its way to antagonize Russia--and I think Putin just said something again today, that he "won't tolerate" U.S. missiles in eastern Europe (on Russia's border). Russia, you will recall, was allied with Iraq at the time of the Bush invasion--and Russian diplomats barely escaped with their lives. The U.S. shot up their convoy--it was a rather big diplomatic incident early in the war. And I worried at the time that the Iraq War might quickly escalate into WW III. I think Russia was too preoccupied with Chechnya, and was still reeling from the breakup of the Soviet Union, otherwise it may have become involved militarily. The invasion of Iraq was a big affront to Russia--along with everything else that it was and is.

China and India are no doubt worried about U.S. use of nuclear weapons. (God, I never thought I would be writing those words--that somebody was afraid of our country pre-emptively striking another country with nuclear weapons!) (We say such things so blandly now.) China's core concern of course is that it gets a lot of oil from Iran--and I'm sure it would very much like to see the situation stabilized, which may be why China is winking at Iran acquiring nuclear technology--if they are. Both Russia and China do seem unconcerned about it, and may even think it would be a good thing for Iran to get nuke weapons, which would create a "detente" in the Middle East (like the "detente" in the Cold War).

But I would think that, in a meeting of China, Russia and India, the first line of strategy (to contain the U.S.--keep Bush/Cheney from attacking Iran, and/or prevent other potential hostilities) would be economic. Soon after, China said something about not holding U.S. securities in dollars any more (something like that). China holds a big chunk of our debt paper (and I think Saudi Arabia is the other big holder). So I think anybody paying attention to these things might have anticipated a fall in the dollar. (Probably all the Bushites did--betcha THEIR portfolios are now in foreign currency--the fuckers.) The problem seemed to start here, in the housing market, but did it?

That is my question. In this AP newsbite, we see Venezuela and Iran fronting this strategy. Or, that is my question. ARE they fronting this strategy for bigger powers?

A couple of other context items. Iran is supposed to be opening an oil burse NOT traded in dollars. There have been a couple of announcements, but I don't think they've done it yet. This talk started more than year ago. (I first read of it in early 2006.) Meanwhile, South Americans are talking about a South American "Common Market," and common currency (to get off the U.S. dollar). This talk started about a year ago. And, quite recently, Venezuela and China negotiated a big oil deal (for supplying China). Also, there was a big Latin American meeting--the same meeting, in Chile, where the Juan Carlos and Chavez exchange took place--at which there was a four hour closed door meeting, with the main topic of discussion being formation of a new OAS without the U.S. as a member. I believe this closed door meeting took place before the Juan Carlos/Chavez exchange and could have had something to do with it--one of the undercurrents of the exchange.

In guessing how that closed door discussion may have gone, I'm thinking that these issues may have arisen: the U.S./Bush recent interference in Venezuela and Bolivia, in particular, probably also in Ecuador; the U.S./Bush massive funding of the militant rightwing in Colombia (with its death squads and all--and their plots against Chavez), and of course past U.S. interference and support of rightwing violence in Latin America (notably in Nicaragua, which is the country that proposed cutting the U.S. out of the OAS, and which is now headed by Daniel Ortega, once the target of the Reaganites). Fast-forward (24 hours or so later), to the public meeting, with Zapatero defending the fascist Aznar, who had supported the U.S.-backed coup against the Chavez government in 2002. Chavez gets just a bit ticked off, and interrupts Zapatero, contradicting him. King Juan Carlos then tells Chavez to shut up.

Now what I'm getting from this context is what appears to be a GENERAL anti-Bush containment strategy--maybe worldwide--of which the OAS proposal was a part. Iran has a big beef (continual threats). (As does Iraq--good lord!--and also Syria.) Russia has its beefs (among them, the missiles). India may have its beef (Pakistan!). China has its beef (threat to its Iranian oil supply). Venezuela certainly has its beef (on-going destabilization efforts and plots; gross demonization of its democratic government). Bolivia is seeing U.S. meddling. Ecuador probably is (its president, Rafael Correa, is an ally of Chavez). (And Bolivia and Ecuador are both working on constitutional reforms, as Venezuela is.) (Also note, Ecuador is a member of OPEC, too.) And I have to add that, last year, when Bush visited Latin America, I saw a COMMON theme, from Brazil to Mexico, on left and right, of Latin American leaders publicly lecturing Bush on the SOVEREIGNTY of Latin American countries. All the leftist governments in South America have past or current beefs (Chile, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil--in addition to Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina and Nicaragua.)

All these major beefs with the Bush Junta. All fearing and distrusting them. All intensely disliking having an unpredictable super-power bullying around the world, threatening more war.

So, is it just Chavez and Ahmadinejad? Or are they just the visible piece of a U.S/Bush containment strategy with many hands behind it? And to what extent are all these other parties acting in concert, or upon some common agreement?

And, really, we had better--sooner rather than later--get rid of these Bushite-corporate controlled "trade secret" voting machines, cuz I think the Bush Junta has burnt our turkey.

[Snarkturian Clone]

42. Chavez's march toward cartoonish super-villianny

continues.

Oh I forgot, this story is just another piece of psy-ops in the "secret war" we're having with VZ- since the bush admin is so good at keeping secrets and accomplishing long-term missions.

Hugo Chavez, the Illustrious One, wept. John 11:35

[Judi Lynn]

43. You'd be doing yourself a favor to start reading far more on your own.

Don't just sit on your ass and criticize what others are saying. Get in there and start finding out what's going on for yourself, and start THINKING seriously. It can only help, even if it's uncomfortable.

You can't bitch and whine about others if you have actually any idea what they're talking about.

[Snarkturian Clone]

44. He is risen!!!

[rAVES]

46. The only thing Cartoonish here is your world view mate....