Police: Church Gunman Killed Himself

[jefferson_dem]

Source: AP

Police: Church Gunman Killed Himself
By JUDITH KOHLER – 14 minutes ago

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) — The man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center died of a self-inflicted shotgun wound, police said Tuesday.

Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday but died after firing a single shot at himself, the El Paso County Coroner's Office concluded after an autopsy.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) — Authorities believe the man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center posted an anti-Christian diatribe online that closely repeated a rant by one of the Columbine killers, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

Matthew Murray, who was kicked out of a missionary training center where the first shooting occurred, is believed to have posted the message on a Web site for people who have left evangelical religious groups. His most recent post was Sunday morning in the hours between his attacks in Arvada and Colorado Springs, according to KUSA-TV in Denver, which first reported on the writings.

"You Christians brought this on yourselves," Murray wrote, according to the station, which did not identify the site. "All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hU4ax39rFCnqHnipVp5TCGP6TKqgD8TFEB7G0

[Tommy_Carcetti]

1. That will annoy the "Let's arm everyone!" crowd n/t

[beevul]

10. Who are they?

The "Let's arm everyone!" crowd?

And why would this annoy anyone?

[Skittles]

30. self-delete

don't want to get into it with wackjob gun nuts

[Pavulon]

31. By enacting Prohibition in 1920

leading to the rise of syndicated crime?

I believe murder is illegal. Rape is illegal. People do both, some without the use of weapons.

People are the problem. That is why the swiss can have real machine guns in their homes and not kill each other. Street crime, little to none.

Why?

[Skittles]

32. OMG

I don't even know where to start so I won't.

[Trajan]

49. Isnt gun ownership in Switzerland HIGHLY regulated ?

Allowing heavy weapons into the hands of ANY person and then insisting that ONLY the human being holding the weapon is responsible for the deadly consequences, without regard to the harmful effects of the weapons themselves, seems a bit preposterous of an argument ....

But then again: The Gungeonites have emerged into the regular world here in LBN with this story ....

Fuck it: Give the people what they want: Rocket Propelled Grenades ..... I propose letting the sociopaths in YOUR neighborhood have complete access to all arms, including RPG's ......

Why the hell not ? ....

Sheeesh ....

[benEzra]

16. Who wants to arm everyone,

and why would they be annoyed? The CHL holder hit the would-be mass murderer several times, without hitting any bystanders, and put him down. The fact that the coward took his own life afterward, as he lay bleeding on the floor is irrelevant; the object was to stop him from killing, not to "get points" for killing him, and she succeeded.

[ChazII]

25. Thank you for displaying common sense. n/t

[ileus]

28. Well said, she stopped him she completed her job.

[Alexander]

20. The straw man crowd is already annoying me.

Point to evidence that people think that way or shut the hell up.

[CANDO]

26. Were you not paying attention after numerous shootings?

The "arm everyone crowd" were in abundance saying that children should be armed in schools and universities. After all, they reasoned, if someone just had a gun this could have been stopped. If someone were out shopping and just happened to be packing, they could have stopped this armed madman at the mall. Just the kind of society I want to be a part of, everyone packing! Gee, that will make us safer. And then tempers flair over something or another and voila, welcome to the wild west! Imagine some of these uber consumer advocate types getting really steamed at the customer service counter over not getting their way! And they are packing heat! Look out baby! I know how pissed off my wife gets at stores. I would never dream of arming her on top of that.

[beevul]

35. We were paying attention...

Better than you were apparently.

The "arm everyone crowd" were in abundance saying that children should be armed in schools and universities. After all, they reasoned, if someone just had a gun this could have been stopped. If someone were out shopping and just happened to be packing, they could have stopped this armed madman at the mall. Just the kind of society I want to be a part of, everyone packing! Gee, that will make us safer. And then tempers flair over something or another and voila, welcome to the wild west! Imagine some of these uber consumer advocate types getting really steamed at the customer service counter over not getting their way! And they are packing heat! Look out baby! I know how pissed off my wife gets at stores. I would never dream of arming her on top of that.

Did they say that EVERYONE should be armed in the schools, malls, or anywhere else?

If not, you have no point, because THAT is the point of contention. Nobody says "arm everyone". We do say "let those that wish to who are qualified and have thier backgrounds checked and get authorization from the government" arm themselves. Get the difference now?


And your "wild west" claim is nothing but utter tripe. Heres a map of concealed carry being implemented over time:



Your "wild west" BS would have happened already, if there was anything factual about the concept.

[CANDO]

50. Do you pay attention at all to the gun violence that goes on....

EVERY day in this country? Just within a couple days there were shootings at malls, churches, and school bus stops. Not to mention the shootings and deaths in hundreds of cities in this country every single day. Perhaps the "wild west" couldn't hold a candle to this modern day violence. I distinctly remember the NRA types saying our children should be allowed to carry in schools and universities after the Va-Tech shooting. And yes, these young adults are children in their maturity level. Studies show this to be true for most people into their twenties. I guess you showed me with your pompous use of quoting my entire statement. Guess I've been smacked down. Oh, the shame! And btw, I didn't say anyone says arm everyone, I was quoting the other post using that phrase. I shouldn't need to point out the obvious.

[pipoman]

51. I for one have been following these issues for quite a while

and have never read any DU poster advocate "arming everyone" so if you were quoting another post I must have missed it, care to point me to it?

As for arming children. I am no apologist for the NRA but I don't believe you can back up the claim, "I distinctly remember the NRA types saying our children should be allowed to carry in schools and universities after the Va-Tech shooting." with an actual link, especially the schools part. They may advocate allowing those people of legal age who have gone through the training and background checks in their state to be allowed to carry on college campuses. These people would be at least the same age as the people who our commoder and cheese is sending to Iraq to carry around fully automatic weapons 24/7, guess what? Not too many of these "children" are going out and killing each other over there. They are the same age as many many police recruits right in your home town. Of all these shootings how many are committed by a person with a permit to carry? A. None I am aware of. Of all these shootings how many are committed by people who can not legally possess a firearm or who obtained their firearm illegally? A. An overwhelming majority if you pay attention.

In the states which have "shall issue" concealed carry on the map above there have been none of the dooms day, "wild west", "blood in the streets", bloody road rage predictions which the Bradys and others said (and continue to say) would be the result of allowing law abiding citizens to defend themselves with equal force to the criminals.

Last thing, as I said I have been reading these threads for a long time and have noticed an interesting trend. The people who are first to call or infer those of us who choose to go through the training and background checks to carry a concealed firearm "paranoid" for wanting to carry into any venue which isn't truly gun free (that is controlled access through security check points and metal detectors, i.e. airports, court houses) decry the high level of "gun violence" as their reason why. My question is, which is it? Is there a violence problem or not? How am I paranoid for wanting to protect myself and my family from this rampant violence and why shouldn't I be allowed to?

[CANDO]

55. Now you are attributing opinions to me which I did not state.

I never said I am against permits to carry. I just don't think young adults in the 18-24 yr old range should be packing in a school environment. And I never accused you of being "paranoid". And as for these kids carrying M16's 24/7 in Iraq, we just don't really know how many suicides and fratricides have occurred due to the extremely chaotic environment they are forced to endure. And tens of thousands are returning home with PTSD and are ticking time-bombs. Thousands of these people have committed suicide since returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan. And furthermore, you are not discussing this issue with someone who is not extremely familiar with firearms. I am a lifelong hunter and currently own three guns including a rifle, handgun, and shotgun. I also served five years in the military, earning an Expert Marksman Medal for the M16 and a Sharpshooter Service Ribbon on the M1911 .45 Pistol. I just don't have much respect for the NRA crowd who supposedly want their arms to defend against Democrats taking their guns, but stand idly by while Republicans destroy the Constitution and make us ever more vulnerable to a fascist corporatocracy. So march on Washington already and save our Democracy! Post numbers 1, 10, and 16 mention "arming everyone". And again, "I" am not saying there are those who want to do this, I was just using the that term facetiously as mentioned by others. My contention all along has been there are far too many guns out there and the last thing we ought to be doing is arming young adults who just don't have the emotional/intellectual maturity to handle them, notwithstanding the military situation. Even then, arms handling is an extremely controlled situation, even in war zones.

[pipoman]

56. I don't disgree with much of your post here

in fact the only part I really disagree with is the 18-24 comment. I believe those people who have concealed carry permits in that age group have really been no more of a problem than CCW holders in general (which is very minimal). I do agree that the majority of gun crimes are committed by people in that age group, most of those offenders could not qualify to buy a gun through NICS or for a permit to carry in their state. For this reason I believe those young adults in that age group who are inclined, have clean criminal and psyc records, go to the classes, and get a CCW should be allowed to defend themselves as they likely are more at risk of being the victim of violent crime.

If I sounded bitchy please excuse me.

Happy Holidays CANDO.

[slackmaster]

41. That's a crock, CANDO

Nobody at all is saying that children should be armed.

[Tejas]

43. our universities are populated by "children"? um, okay n/t

[benEzra]

48. I don't support arming everyone, and I don't think anyone does.

I do believe that allowing the 1% to 2% of the population that is licensed and competent to carry a firearm, to be allowed to do so, is entirely rational, and it certainly saved lives in this case.

Dissenting from the "disarm everyone" crowd does not make one an advocate of "arming everyone."

FWIW, 46 of the 50 states allow duly licensed non-LEO's to carry firearms, and 2 additional states (Vermont and Alaska) don't require a license at all.

[YOY]

2. The whole thing is a tragedy on top of a tragedy

n/t

[Cha]

3. Oh dear..this surreal..

that they actually got to someone enough to go on this killing rampage!

[nebenaube]

4. wow

the techicniques employed by MKUltra are truly powerful...

[LeftyMom]

8. Wow, is that the Reynolds Release foil? And a sombrero? What a great idea to keep the rain off.

:tinfoilhat:

[liberalmuse]

5. Yeah, so he guns two young sisters and their father.

That'll show the world what a horrible religion Christianity is. Fuck the NRA, because without the gun culture, we wouldn't have to read this shit every couple of weeks--because it's too damn easy to kill with a gun, and you don't have to look your victims in the eye while you're doing it. I don't understand why guys like this don't just kill themselves, and leave other people who had nothing to do with their issues out of it. I guess you have to be pretty fucked up in the head to get to that point.

[benEzra]

22. The mall shooter said "I'll be famous" in his suicide note...

I think the notoriety/antihero martyrdom granted by the MSM to spree killers may be what motivates some of them to kill others instead of just committing suicide.

[rocktivity]

6. In a statement, the training center said health problems

kept Murray from finishing the program....(He) did not complete the lecture phase or a field assignment...Youth With a Mission said...in a statement:..."The program directors felt that issues with his health made it inappropriate" for him to finish...

Inappropriate? What a curious choice of word, unless it refers to his MENTAL health. At any rate, he's been angry about it ever since, which suggests he didn't concur with the program's "diagnosis."

:headbang:
rocknation

[TrogL]

7. But couldn't they just pray those health issues away?

[FredMertz]

9. I pray that you realize....

....your cruel comment insults the lives of the two sisters (and the others) that were killed by this person.

[clixtox]

37. Why, exactly is that?

Are you doubting the power of prayer?

Was the poster not sensitive enough for you.

You do, perhaps, believe in prayer for some things but believe that it is not to be utilized for improving one's own mental health?

Am I being offensive towards you for wondering why you are taking such umbrage at the previous post?

What is the point of policing, or whatever you are doing, other people's posts on DU?

Are you the aspiring conscience of DU?

What's up...

Superstitious fantasy is superstitious fantasy no matter how much you choose to rationalize or believe just on "faith" alone. That this fantastic, atavistic belief system is still currently prevalent in our culture (albeit fading away elsewhere) doesn't mean that it actually has any basis in reality. Really!

It is interesting mainly because their being ingenuous religionists make those believers susceptible to those miscreants who control and manipulate them. (From an Atheist's perspective, priests, rabbis, ministers, imams, etc. are heretics)

It sounds to me like the disappointment of finally figuring out what a load of crap he had previously been led to believe, and the historical record of the chaos, war and hate engendered by organized religion quickly drove this young perpetrator crazy (or crazier) and seeking revenge.

Attempting to express his newfound analysis of the metaphysical conundrum while at the school got him thrown out which exacerbated his anger into a raging tantrum and tragically innocents were wounded and murdered.

Pray tell, what do you think about that. Insensitive enough for a reprimand or three from the superstitious throngs?

Now, on a serious note, how about Santa Claus, trickle down economics and the Easter Bunny...

[daleo]

34. I wonder if he was on anti-depressants

There is a growing body of evidence that SSRIs can trigger violent behavior (usually suicide, but sometimes murder).

[951-Riverside]

11. Jeanne Assam the so called "hero" is a compulsive liar

Not only did she lie about her age but she lied when she said "I identified myself and engaged him then took him down". :mad:

[RamboLiberal]

13. What is she lying about ?

Read the story - she shot him multiple times! He just delivered the coup de grace to himself. Guess she should've run up and shot him in the head to satisfy you!

How in the heck was she to know her shots hadn't killed him? Took the coroner to tell that.

[crawfish]

14. Nice, reactionary post.

:eyes:

[Mike Daniels]

15. She did take him down / he opted to finish himself off

Taking him down can be interpreted as neutralizing him which she most certainly did.

[benEzra]

19. She DID, literally, take him down.

She shot him several times, such that he was unable to stand and fell to the floor, where he lay wounded until he killed himself. She did take him down, and she did stop the killing.

[Posteritatis]

27. "Took him down" != "killed him" (nt)

[Mike Daniels]

42. Not necessarily

"Taking someone down" is used in numerous situations and more often then not means "I stopped him".

So how is this any different as she most certainly stopped him from killing any other innocents?

[truthisfreedom]

40. I think you're way off-base here. She's a hero for stopping the killings. End of story.

Sheesh.

[stray cat]

12. After he was shot multiple times by a security guard he turned his gun on himself

Murray was shot multiple times by a security guard at New Life Church, but the El Paso County Coroner's Office said the shot that killed him came from his own weapon.

"The death of Matthew Murray has been ruled a suicide. It should be noted that he was struck multiple times by the security officer, which put him down. He then fired a single round killing himself," the statement said.

Still sounds like alot of people's lifes were saved by the security guard so many DUers are enjoying slamming.

[RamboLiberal]

17. Where he was hit

11 News has learned Murray was hit 3 to 4 times in his legs and his wrist. One shot may have even hit the handgun he was holding. That's the gun he used to take his life.

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/12362311.html

Not unusual the gun was hit. As I found out and was told when taking a shooting course your eye is drawn to the weapon the shooter is holding.

[ben_meyers]

18. So she was trying to just take him down

and not kill him?

And now she shouldn't have to worry about the wrongful death lawsuits.

[benEzra]

21. No. She was firing quickly and on the move; her shots came in a bit low,

but good enough to drop him. Pretty darn good shooting, given the time factor and that the element of surprise was on the bad guy's side.

Added on edit--she did better than the NYPD, on average...and that's not a slam on the NYPD, just that most NYPD probably do not get all that much range time for budgetary reasons:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report. The police shot and killed 13 people last year.

In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year.

In all shootings — including those against people, animals and in suicides and other situations — New York City officers achieved a 34 percent accuracy rate (182 out of 540), and a 43 percent accuracy rate when the target ranged from zero to six feet away. Nearly half the shots they fired last year were within that distance.

In Los Angeles, where there are far fewer shots discharged, the police fired 67 times in 2006 and had 27 hits, a 40 percent hit rate, which, while better than New York’s, still shows that they miss targets more often they hit them.

[RamboLiberal]

46. Just read in a couple of articles detailing his arsenal

She hit him with 3 out of 10 shots. 30% hit rate. On edit maybe 40% - just read in Colorado Springs Gazette that the coroner said he had a superficial would in his chest probably from one of Assam's bullets that had hit his AR-15.

Also the Vietnam vet who witnessed the shooting encouraged her to finish the guy off with a head shot when they got close to him. She refused saying he was already dead (as we know now by his own hand).

[slackmaster]

23. She was trying to stop him, which is exactly what any decent defense class teaches you to do

If the person you shoot happens to die, that's his or her problem.

[RamboLiberal]

24. I agree with the other 2 posters

Shooting to wound is a myth that those who have never trained in self-defense shooting entertain.

It's not easy to hit a moving target. And it's not like that easy scenario on the range where your targets aren't shooting back.

[whistler162]

29. Nope..

but it has been said better than I ever will.

I am glad she won't have the emotional burden that killing the ?man? would entail. She stopped him and he decided to end his own life.

Hoepfully she doesn't get caught up in the hype and can go back to building her life.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

33. Her actions still probably got him to commit suicide sooner than later

More than likely his plan was to kill as many people as possible before he killed himself.

[JCMach1]

36. That is too funny considering how the media spun her story!

[benEzra]

47. What are you saying?

She shot him several times, putting him down and stopping the killing. That's all she claimed to have done, AFAIK. And good for her.

[donkeyotay]

54. It was a beautiful reichwing myth, wasn't it? The fact that it's not true won't stop

the faithful from believing it. The magic is already done.

[davsand]

38. A guy was shot over a dozen times with at least six different guns.

Nobody saw a thing, and no guns were ever found on site. It was ruled a suicide by local law enforcement.

Now, the rest of the story: The dead guy walked into a tavern on a Saturday night in the roughest part of town. There had been multiple police raids in this tavern and shootings in that neighborhood were a regular occurrence. He walked in waving a gun and screaming he was there to kill somebody...

It happened here locally about 20 years ago.

You might wonder why I put this up here, but I wanted to illustrate there are many different ways of killing yourself. Some folks take pills, some jump off buildings and some shoot themselves. Some deliberately go places and do things that they know will probably get them killed.

Just my two cents.



Laura

[Mountainman]

45. We had a 70 yr old guy come to a clinic this summer and demanded to have some lab test.

When the lab refused he went to his car and got a gun and came back. The lab called 911. The police came. The gunman challenged the cops and they shot and killed him. Most people think it was a suicide. The guy wanted to get shot.

[Mountainman]

39. Well it is about time we got into our usual pro/anti gun fight. I was getting a little disappointed

that we were going to let this pass without a decent mud slinging, knock down, pissing contest about guns! It seems DU never disappoints.

[saigon68]

44. Nope and I even stayed out of it this time

[eringer]

52. A Terrible Tragedy But Its Time To Move On (to the next Gun Show)

The next MONTHLY Tanner Gun Show is scheduled for December 29 and 29. Its in Denver--just down the road from Colorado Springs. Admission is only $6 and children under 12 are free! Here is the jump:
http://www.tannergunshow.com/ Tanner feels bad but is determined to keep the drive alive for even more firearms. Just read their promotional blurb:
The Tanner Gun Show attracts thousands of visitors to the Rocky Mountain Region's best monthly gathering. Every show features 600 available tables of guns, knives, and accessories including ammunition, hunting and fishing equipment, military surplus, gun safes, and many more unique items. From the latest technology to the hard to find items, collectibles and antiques, you can find it all here.
Sounds like very scary stuff.:scared:

[slackmaster]

53. You should go check it out

Face your fears.