Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops

[RamboLiberal]

Source: WBAY-TV Green Bay

If you're ticketed by Green Bay police, you'll get more than a fine. You'll get fingerprinted, too. It's a new way police are cracking down on crime.

If you're caught speeding or playing your music too loud, or other crimes for which you might receive a citation, Green Bay police officers will ask for your drivers license and your finger. You'll be fingerprinted right there on the spot. The fingerprint appears right next to the amount of the fine.

Police say it's meant to protect you -- in case the person they're citing isn't who they claim to be. But not everyone is sold on that explanation.

-----

But in Green Bay, where police say they only average about five cases in a year, drivers we talked with think the new policy is extreme.



Read more: http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?s=2776926

---

Drip, drip, drip go our rights.

[Mojorabbit]

1. Is this legal? n/t

[Robbien]

4. How are you going to stop them?

If you say no, they can take you in for resisting an officer.

Same thing is happening over in Iraq. Our soldiers are bursting into people's houses asking/demanding fingerprints and DNA swabs. How does one say no to a guy with a gun. The Defense Department just spent a ton of money on a huge biometric data base system.

All scary stuff.

[Mojorabbit]

8. I am hoping someone

who gets printed will file a lawsuit and take it to the supreme court if need be. Funny, there was a time when I thought that would produce a good result but these days I am not so sure it would.

[Incitatus]

31. The same Supreme court that put Bush in office?

Well, not exactly the same, he got to pick two replacements.

we're fucked

[closeupready]

29. Well, they would probably just have to take me in then, because I would refuse.

n/t

[Stump]

43. Not a good solution...

Then you give a full set of prints for being arrested.

[closeupready]

64. I don't fear having them print me. The point is, I can later sue in court and make them stop.

Assuming a court would find in my favor.

[pokercat999]

41. You can only say no to a guy with a gun when you have

one also. We see the results of that in Iraq everyday. We see the results of an unarmed populace here in the US where more unarmed civilians are killed every year, by the police that are charged with protecting them. Is the answer to have everyone armed? I don't think so, one answer may lie in better testing and training, especially psychological testing and training of our police, another in developing better non-lethal "weapons".

[MADem]

2. This will be the future, like it or not.

Identity thieves will have to steal a finger, too, eventually....

[treestar]

91. Interesting thought. The criminals usually come up with something

anyway - they find ways to defeat car alarms, etc. They'll just come up with a way to get the fingerprint too. Sometimes I think law enforcement should just try to solve crimes as they happen rather than quixotically seeking some sort of quick fix that is supposed to provide an easy path. Fingerprints are useful, but not that useful. In stranger on stranger crime, maybe, but a lot of crime is between people who know each other and therefore, their fingerprints are around and don't mean so much. So having a database of as many fingerprints as possible isn't necessarily worth the effort.

[baldguy]

3. Is it fascism yet?

[sam sarrha]

5. unemployment is up, they're try'n to run off the mexicans

[Incitatus]

32. It's another step in the that direction. nt

[Acadia Blue]

79. I can't believe what has happened since 2000 stolen election.

[grahamhgreen]

33. Are the corporations controlling the government?

[tavalon]

68. Well, yeah, of course they are!

They have been for quite a while.

[Acadia Blue]

80. The corporations cemented their control under Bush. What can we do?

Sitting here at a computer is not going to stop it. All the yak yak in the world is not going to do it. We need to peacefully demonstrate as they did in the 60s and that means trying to awaken the dumb and dumber befoe it is much too late.

[SpikeTss]

37. Is IBM involved in developing the database?

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

And if IBM is not involved I'm pretty sure that other so-called global players in the IT industry will be very happy about this step toward totalitarianism.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/28/the_end_of_america_feminist_social

[Progressive Radical]

52. We're way past that.

We've been frogs on slow boil for quite some time now.

[f the letter]

6. This is some silly bullshit.

i can't believe that a group of adults got together and decided that speeding was so egregious a crime as to merit fingerprinting.

Will we have to give DNA samples next?

[GETPLANING]

10. Well, yes

That would be the next step. I bet it only takes another three years and they will be collecting DNA on misdemeanor citations.

[rasputin1952]

11. It all comes in increments...

they learned well from tactics used in Germany during the 1930's...time is on one's side, and only the vigilant can see what is happening.

[formercia]

48. Fascism driven by profit.

Are they using a simple ink pad or did the department purchase some expensive fingerprint kit from a politically well connected corporation?

The militarization of police in the US comes at a stiff price and the corporations making the money from selling al of the police equipment, for the most part, are very well connected to the * Administration.

[rasputin1952]

49. I recall when my little city of some 25,000 received millions for

the "war on terror" and they had so much cash they didn't know what to do w/it all. So everything they could use up on ridiculous stuff that just gathers dust now was purchased. In rural Nebraska, we have a SWAT team, one that has no training, but they "could" defend us against a "terrorist attack"...what terrorists...those that go to Tractor Pulls, or the Masons in those cool little cars?

[formercia]

53. Think of all the jobs it created

and all the big pickup trucks that were purchased along with the McMansions made of ticky-tacky with sub-prime loans.

Money down a rat-hole.

[rasputin1952]

76. Yep...they just threw cash into whatever someone called...

"counter-terroism"...and to beat all, it is one of those things that yu can't "prove" didn't stop an attack, so in the eyes of those who drain the Treasury, it's a win-win...:grr:

[formercia]

77. Draining the Treasury

Just like the Nazi military-industrial complex, along with their co-conspirators in the government did in Germany during the closing months of WWII. Leave nothing but a smoking ruin.

Same gang, different country.

Just like the fictional Borg. "You will be assimilated." Your soldiers will become our soldiers, your treasure will feed our machine.

[rasputin1952]

78. It is the greed that demonstrates itself for time to time that

destroys nations and civilizations.

The people in charge right now, care nothing of the future, it is all about how much can be gleened from the Treasury, and how much power can be gained in a very short period of time. This is the stuff that briongs about Revolutions, always has, always will.

[formercia]

81. Oh, well

Shit happens.

They stepped on their crank, big time.

[shraby]

7. Why do they bother putting photos on our drivers

licenses then? I thought that was to help them id us.

[bananas]

14. In California, you get fingerprinted when you get your license

Your photo goes on your license, your fingerprint goes in the database.

[boricua79]

9. bullshit...I don't believe them

For your protection, huh? Sounds like England Prevails in V for Vendetta...screw that.

They don't need my fingerprint to give me a ticket. They can use the car video camera on their cars to film the interaction and use that as proof of the stop in a court of law. They don't need the extra fingerprints.

[struggle4progress]

12. The problem cited by the police might be real. A friend of mine once spent

three days in jail for an alleged non-show at trial associated with a traffic accident. Although no car involved had any connection to my friend, one of the drivers involved nevertheless produced no license and instead identified himself using my friend's name and address. So when he didn't show for the trial, authorities issued out a warrant on my friend. From everybody else's point of view, he had simply vanished, and it took some work to track him down and figure out what had happened: the police had decided he couldn't make a phone call before certain procedural issues were resolved. When outsiders figured out where he was and started asking questions, his jailers suddenly decided he wasn't involved after all, and they threw him out of jail; the arrest warrant disappeared, and nothing else ever came of it

[bjobotts]

18. Bullshit story.Police ticket someone who has no ID and just tells them a name??

Fingerprints won't stop crooked cops or corrupt police tactics and this story is hardly justification for obtaining fingerprints, besides being extremely unbelievable.

[struggle4progress]

27. It actually happened. Perhaps you confuse our actual criminal justice system with the ideal version

we all learned in civics class? Real life in America's underclass can suck.

Of course, the cops could have been lying: it was a rightwing town with a strong authoritarian flavor, and the police there weren't big on constitutional niceties

[Aviation Pro]

54. Why is it....

...that when Daddy-authoritarians rule the roost the first thing they think of is punishing their citizenry/children? Methinks that they are compensating for something else (probably some deep dark secret kept well hidden in the hallway pantry).

Oh, one other snarky note. Dana, when you're in bed with your "husband" does he wish that you don't call him Daddy when you're getting it on?

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. I had a stop put on my DL renewal because of a ticket issued to me

which had never been cleared - issued to me in a state which I had left six months previous to the citation date. I didn't know anything about it until 4 years later. I've always suspected it was my ex's boyfriend gave them my name because he was driving on a suspended license.

They will write a ticket just on someone's say so.

But that doesn't make this kind of shit right. This stretches the 4th amendment to the limit, and beyond, as grounds for reasonable search and seizure.

[Xithras]

94. Yes. They will.

Especially if the person happens to know a drivers license number that coincides with the name. It happens every day in this country.

[ClintonTyree]

34. That does sound a little far fetched....

in all states, that I'm aware of, positive ID must be supplied for any traffic offense, and especially a motor vehicle accident. Be it an insurance card, a driver's license, vehicle registration etc. SOME sort if ID MUST be produced or that person isn't going to be allowed to just drive away from the scene of an accident.

My father was a Judge, my brother is a Cop, and I myself took almost 2 years of criminal justice (before I decided I couldn't treat everyone like a criminal). Positive ID is a MUST and no one would be allowed to drive away from the scene of an accident without it. There must be some other circumstance you're not aware of for this to have happened or you have the DUMBEST Police Department in the country. Just sayin'.

[struggle4progress]

84. See #45

[Xithras]

95. In case of an accident, they would. Other citations? Probably not.

As I said elsewhere, simply reciting a name and matching number is often enough. The dividing line, I believe, is whether the incident is serious enough to potentially warrant arrest. If you've been in an accident, there are all sorts of possibilities from DUI to recklessness that the officer has to consider, and they need to know who they're dealing with.

With something more minor like a speeding ticket, the officer isn't so worried about having to arrest someone. Cops generally don't like to arrest people if they don't have to, and no cop wants to drag someone to jail because he was speeding and happened to leave his wallet on the nightstand that morning. If the person comes up with a name and drivers license number that match, and ESPECIALLY if they coordinate with the name on the vehicle registration, 9 times out of 10 the cop will let the driver go with a citation and a warning to carry their license in the future.

[jmm]

88. Something similar happened to a couple of my neighbors

when I was younger. One of them had been in a serious car accident and gave the police his brother's information. They didn't check his ID and let him go despite failing a breathalyzer. When one of the people in the car he hit died the next day they went to the address he had given. I got a call from his niece after the police left telling me her father had been arrested. Later that evening I received a few calls telling me to turn on the news because they were showing his arrest. He spent a night in jail before he was identified as not having been the one behind the wheel.

I'm sure incidents like this are more common than people realize but the solution should be making sure proper procedures are in place to ensure people involved in traffic accidents are showing proper identification. Fingering printing strikes me as over-kill with ulterior motives.

[Xithras]

93. I've got a better one than that. I knew a guy who spent a week in jail on a felony warrant.

Similar story. He was arrested in one jurisdiction and transferred to another where the warrant was issued. The DA's office was no help (I believe the A-DA's comment was "Let him prove it at the trial.") He was only freed after one of the jail supervisors at the Alameda County Jail took a second look at his papers and realized that the description on the original paperwork didn't match the description of his prisoner. He was released from the jail in Oakland, had to find his own way back home (100 miles away) and never received any apology, much less compensation.

Had the fingerprint database that California has maintained since the early 1990's actually been USED, none of it would have happened.

[verges]

13. Huh?

Are they saying that they only give out five speeding tickets per year? Green Bay is a fairly large city isn't it?

[whopis01]

15. 5 cases of false or fraudulent identification documents a year

from the article... still seems very low for a large city.

[dorktv]

16. Well it could be a good thing (to prevent mistaken identity) and

it could be a bad thing (increase the chances of you being picked up on something.)

[bjobotts]

20. It's an invasion of privacy and infringement of the right to privacy.

They want to catalog everyone to track them and in the future it will be used to restrain them and get rid of dissent and keep everyone in the place reserved for them.

[dorktv]

85. do you realise how insane you sound?

Yeah I dislike some of these things too but most of the time the coppers are too busy trying to stop your neighbors from killing each other to be bothered with "keeping people in their place."

Does it happen? Yes. Is it widespread? That appears to be a no.

[bamacrat]

17. Its all a part of their plan to take over.

[harmonicon]

21. *to* take over? You think it hasn't happened yet?

[Zorra]

19. Fuck that. I'll give them the finger, you bet. One of the lamest excuses

for personal data collection and invading our privacy that I have ever seen.

Is we fascists yet?

[POAS]

35. Yes, we is!

[silverojo]

22. You think that's bad?

People who apply for food stamps have been getting fingerprinted for years. Their only "crime" is being poor....

[happyslug]

24. Not in most states.

My home state of Pennsylvania does NOT, but then we only adopted photo driving license when the Federal Government threaten to prohibit any federal money for any highway project in Pennsylvania unless we adopted a Photo license on our Driver's license (Pennsylvania and Vermont were the last two states to adopted such Photo license). Even today, when you move, all you have to do is get on line (You use to have to write a letter) and tell Penndot (Pennsylvania Department of Transportation that issues licenses in Pennsylvania) that you have moved and they will mail you a Paper license to go with your Photo license. All it is is the old Paper license, but you have to carry it with your Photo license.

As to Fingerprinting, I remember seeing old Dragnet Shows showing that feature. Pennsylvania would issue paper license till Reagan became President (Reagan Administration insisted on Photo licenses, they claim it was for Police use, but the PA State Police reported they were happy with the Paper license, it was the banks that wanted the Photo license to use as ID).

[Lugnut]

23. Bull. Shit.

K&R

[Spinzonner]

25. Or Picking your feet in Poughkeepsie

[RoccoR5955]

39. I am near Poughkeepsie and, they would pick you up for...

Picking your nose, and flicking a booger out the window!
Welcome to the Police States of AmeriKKKa!

[happyslug]

26. Under the US Constitution, this is permitted IF PERMITTED BY LAW.

Thus the issue is this permitted under Wisconsin of Green Bay law? If yes, they is NOTHING under the US Constitution that prohibits this. In states that permit sobriety tests, such tests are permitted because you agreed to them when you agree to be licensed (Which implies a person on foot can decline them, no agreement to undergo a Breathalyzer, but the Police can rely on his general authority to investigate crime to give you a Breathalyzer if he has probable cause, i.e. you acting drunk, so even people on foot can be subject to such tests IF OTHER EVIDENCE EXIST, such as visual observation of you).

[DIKB]

28. This will lead to the same problems

they have with the wire-tapping. An enormous back-log of information to sift through, so much so that it becomes virtually useless and HINDERS the ability of law enforcement to find people.

That being said, it does feel awfully gestapo-esque, what next? Taking the DNA of every person who commits a misdemeanor? Microchips in every citizen? Tattooing us with serial numbers like the Nazis?

[Divine Discontent]

30. we REALLLLLLLY need a Democratic president in office

to bring in 3 or 4 new liberal and civilian minded Justices into the Supreme Court that will defend citizen's rights.

This is way overboard - fingerprinting for speeding? Hello people of GREEN BAY - W.T.F.U. before it's too late and they keep you from going into neighborhoods not cleared on your "intra-city travel card".

sigh....

[DissedByBush]

58. Better than now, but not a sure fix

Al Gore tried to give the government a back door to all of our private encrypted data. This was one of his major missions as Vice President.

The War On (Some) Drugs expanded, with an equivalent encroachment on our rights, during Clinton's presidency.

CALEA, the law that forced carriers to include snooping capabilities, probably the same ones Bush is using illegally, was passed by a Democratic Congress and signed by Clinton (and we the customers paid the bill!).

Having a Democratic president would be better than now, but I'm not counting on our rights being restored once we get one.

[RedSock]

61. yeah, that'll do it

just like the democrats turned the tide in 2002

no wait -- it was 2004

no wait -- it was 2006

no wait -- it'll be 2008

...

and on and on and on it goes ........

[Smith_3]

36. So, how does this sparkle with the "government out of my business" republicans????

I guess fingerprinting is fine, as long as it isn't socialized medicine.

[Auggie]

38. That does it -- I'm never leaving California

[RoccoR5955]

40. Canada is looking better and better every ding dong day! NT

[beastofbourbon]

42. Enforcing Laws is the business of the Police

Enforcing Laws is the business of the police....not embellishing laws or amending laws or adding to laws...............where is the state legislature on this ?

[Joanne98]

44. The police state moves forward!

[kedrys]

46. If I hadn't already made up my mind to leave the country

this might do it. :grr:

Police state uber alles.

[marmar]

47. Don't turn around.....Der Komissar's in town....

Where's the resistance among some of the people in these agencies? I guess the "Good German" syndrome is alive and well.

[DissedByBush]

59. Resistance?

Reference: Waco, Ruby Ridge, Bush's Gulag, jackboot thugs killing people protecting their families during no-knock searches.

[markbark]

50. Well....

I can suggest a "finger" to give them when stopped for traffic violations :evilgrin:

--MAB

[bitchkitty]

51. Next, eyescans? Or a quick

skin scraping for DNA? This gives me the creeps...

[lisainmilo]

72. 2005, IAD biometrics already developing

"In the past, a simple hand-scrawled signature would be enough to establish your identity. Today, we need a bewildering assortment of computer-readable passports, driver's licences, credit card numbers, logins and passwords to identify ourselves when we travel, shop, bank and work. In short, our digital identity is becoming more important than our physical identity. And that's just the start of the identity revolution. Soon biometrics will transform what it takes to prove who you are."

<snip>

""OPEN your eyes," says a stern, automated voice. I look into a mirror the size of a small chocolate bar and wait for the click. "Thank you," says the voice. "We have finished taking pictures of your eyes." It was my first taste of the biometric future. The machine was an iris-scanning device, and the pictures it took will be used to translate the patterns on my irises into a unique digital code. The idea is that later I will be able to use my irises to prove I am who I say I am, just by opening my eyes to show they match my code."

More from NST: http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/News/New_Scientist.html

[DissedByBush]

55. Awesome!

Fingerprints are extremely easy to fake.

I'm going to the police station with some tape, lift the fingerprints of some police, and get caught in a few minor traffic violations. Or maybe from the podium after the Mayor's next speech. Hmmm, you can find Richard Nixon's fingerprints online...

That should be interesting.

[ChazII]

56. This story gives me the chills.

Talk about a police state.

[HughMoran]

57. I would refuse

Let them arrest me - wouldn't be the first time I refused police intrusion into my personal space. They can not force you to do anything.

[downindixie]

60. From what I read

You can refuse to give your fingerprint and not get arrested.Of course the police will look for anything to arrest you if you refuse.You'll be harassed as long as you drive in their town!

[npk]

63. This discussion is pointless

First off this story is nothing new. Many states already fingerprint people when they receive their licenses, and second of all (speeding, loud music, littering, etc.) are all forms of a misdemeanor, or state offense, which guess what, jails fingerprint people for when they are charged with a misdemeanor. The only exception is that these offenses don't usually necessitate a custodial arrest. However, when you get a speeding ticket you are still being charged with a misdemeanor crime. So this discussion is really silly. I mean police have been fingerprinting people arrested for misdemeanors for a very long time. Why all of sudden the indignation. I mean don't break the law, no matter how minor that law is, and you don't have anything to be concerned with.

Let’s move on to more important discussions.

[Twist_U_Up]

70. Wow, this doesnt sound familiar does it ?

You sure you have the right forum ?

[Gormy Cuss]

69. Right. It's voluntary...

as long as you're willing to put up with the harassment.

[AZ Criminal JD]

62. This has always been legal

When you get a ticket, whether it is for speeding or jaywalking or some other minor ordinance violation, it is technically an arrest. As part of an arrest a police officer can take you into custody, photograph you and fingerprint you. Of course most police departments don't do this because of the administrative burden and paperwork involved when doing this for minor violations. But this is legal and any police department in the country could do it as it has always been within the police power. Please check with your local criminal defense attorney if you doubt this.

[tavalon]

65. And the hit parade just keeps on coming!

Is it fascism yet?

[pinniped]

66. Insertion of the microchip is the next phase.

.

[IndianaGreen]

67. Don't count on the Beltway Democrats to protect our freedoms!

They are more than willing to grease the skids of the police state!

What's next for this former bastion of democracy? "Your papers, please?"

[Serial Mom]

71. Is this the Ministry of Information?? Anyone?? Brazil???

[liberal N proud]

73. Preparing the population for the great roundup

Head em up, move em out.

[sarcasmo]

74. Fascism is alive and well in Green Bay.

[saigon68]

75. Its meant to "Whiten Up" the community---- I live here

I know I live here

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

82. Maximizing the database.

[whatdoyouthink]

83. Very Funny -Not

Weird those Right Wingers were running around - Big brother - this/that and now are the one's pushing this scary crap...power (monie) trumps principle, i guess?

Voluntary - only, try getting on a Federal job / sit without it (ID Please) and now with this Illegals Immigration war (cops) will be saying Papers please

[BreweryYardRat]

86. Lawsuit time.

That's a violation of the Fourth Amendment, unless I'm mistaken.

[Redstone]

87. Welcome to the United Soviet States of America.

Redstone

[rocktivity]

89. If your fingerprints AREN'T on record because you DON'T have one

how do they make sure you are you who say you are?

Also, a citation isn't a conviction--you have the have the right to contest it in court. What happens to the fingerprint if you happen to be acquitted? And are they REALLY concerned that people who blast their stereos are going to turn into to fugitives?

:shrug:
rocknation

[Zorra]

92. They're collecting data, and I'd bet they send the fingerprints

straight to the FBI database after they get them, to keep them on record.

[treestar]

90. The real reason

Is to increase the number of people in the database.

They have children fingerprinted over the relatively remote threat that they will be kidnapped. They all need Social Security numbers so their parents can deduct them. When we allowed that, we did a good bit towards requiring "papers" of common citizens.

To fight crime, the police will always "need" a database of as many people as possible. Our fear of crime allows it (and our fear of fraud on the government, as in the Social Security number example).

In the future, they'll argue for DNA profiles on every baby born, so they can put it in the data base, in case of that person's future disappearance or crimes. With the iris scans and everything else technology comes up with, the human body itself could end up as its own ID card.