Tiger attack survivors' attorney says zoo ignored cries for help

[EFerrari]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

The two brothers who survived the Christmas Day tiger attack that killed their 17-year-old friend frantically sought to get help for more than 30 minutes before the zoo workers finally called 911, an attorney representing the pair said Tuesday in the first account of the event from the victims.

"The whole thing is mind-boggling," said attorney Mark Geragos, who related what he had been told about the events that left Carlos Sousa Jr. dead and his clients, Paul Dhaliwal, 19, and Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, injured.

"They were out there for 30 to 35 minutes and nobody takes them seriously - especially when there was blood. It's incredible," Geragos said.

Sam Singer, a newly hired spokesman for the zoo, said Tuesday that it was "highly unusual that (Geragos) is the only person who has the facts, when the San Francisco Police Department hasn't even completed its investigation."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/02/MNGNU7VE1.DTL&tsp=1

[Lasher]

1. Yay, another tiger thread!

Hopefully this will be a welcome change from the flamewars.

[EFerrari]

2. I couldn't figure out how to hide GDP!

:hi:

[Lasher]

5. Hee hee, think I'll duck into the lounge.

But I even managed to get into a fight there once. :(

BTW, I read in another tiger article that two of the three guys had slingshots with them, which further fuels speculation they had been taunting it.

[question everything]

42. And, they have yet to talk about what happened

not even with the family of the boy who was killed in their stead, who really wants to hear from them.

[liberalnurse]

3. I never trust the attorney for the Plaintiff these days.

Did Geragos clarify as to whether the boys were taunting the Tiger with sling shot pellets? Did he explain why the boys were sitting within the compound on the moat? Were they drinking as well? I want to know.......

Boys will be boys, and accidents happen...so let's not create falsehoods this time Mr. Geragos. The outcome of responding and changing the habitat based on lies for the goal of money gained is evil.

[EFerrari]

4. He didn't write the police logs, though. They tend to support

his narrative.

[liberalnurse]

6. I'm definitely going to follow this case.

Since Geragos is in the picture now, it will be the lead media distraction item for sure. I bet he will be on Larry King any day. Personally, I'd give my eye teeth to see the forensic findings on this!

[Garbo 2004]

10. But the logs say nothing about the time of attack or what transpired before first 911 call.

So far we have only Garagos saying that the attack happened at 4:30 and the brothers spent over a half hour while the tiger was on the loose trying to get someone's attention. The dispatch logs provide no info on that.

[Captain Hilts]

12. What'd I read about an empty Vodka bottle in their car and sling-shots in their pockets?

That's what one police source said.

[Garbo 2004]

14. NY Post report. ABC news clip says SFPD says slinghots was a "rumor," FWIW

Video news report: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4072527&page=1

[Captain Hilts]

16. I was curious about the whole thing. Still am. nt

[atre]

58. There has been a disturbing volume of falsehoods put out there

and they all seem to deceive in a manner that best protects the SF Zoo.

[NashVegas]

72. Yes, Yet

That particular rumor first surfaced in the same report about the vodka, IIRC.

*shrugs*

[ecstatic]

19. More than likely a zoo official came up with that

If they get foolish Americans to believe their version, then they won't have to worry about patrons (rightfully) fearing for their safety during zoo visits. You and others have bought into it, hook, line, and sinker. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

22. No, I've expressed skepticism the whole way. Spare me the rolling eyes.

Notice I used question marks.

[EFerrari]

23. They show that the zoo's first response was skepticism.

"The attitude of the zoo is reflected in dispatch logs of the events of that night. The first call to fire officials gave no sense of urgency, even suggesting the whole thing might be the product of a deranged person's imagination. Law enforcement authorities familiar with the incident say the vague nature of that first call meant that the incident was not given immediate priority.

The early report on the police log casts doubt on the incident, suggesting that zoo authorities considered the information unreliable.

"Zoo personnel dispatch now say there are two males who the zoo thinks ... are 800 (code for mentally disturbed) and making something up ...but one is in fact bleeding from the back of the head," according to a police log entry at 5:10 p.m."

I've worked with Mark on other stuff, so I admit I tend to believe him. Having said that, I'm sure he will do his best to win this case.

[Garbo 2004]

28. That shows that the worker who called was skeptical but called it in anyway.

Doesn't show that zoo workers were skeptical and did nothing for over a half hour, which is Garagos' contention. At this point, absent other corroborated information to support Garagos' claims, the logs show that despite skepticism the worker called 911 and reported what the brothers said.

Did you also believe Geragos when he told the Scott Peterson jury that he would not only prove Peterson innocent but also solve the case? Geragos came up with some pretty inventive stuff he claimed his "investigation" was showing, including that a satanic cult kidnapped and held Laci until the baby was born. He had nothing.

[EFerrari]

29. They called in more than one report. And that takes time:

"Zoo personnel dispatch now say"

The logs interest me more than any claim. They don't simple say "Dispatch to zoo XX:XX, animal attack". They fool around. If nothing else, the zoo has handed Garregos a hook.

[Garbo 2004]

32. You cite a 5:10 report but at 5:10 police also were told the zoo was reporting a tiger loose.

At 5:09 fire dept responders were told zoo wasn't safe. 5:12 fire dept at zoo, by 5:13 police also at zoo. (First 911 from cafe worker at zoo was at 5:07, said man was agitated, claiming bite by exotic animal, worker couldn't verify injuries, wasn't actually with the man and police were dispatched.)

So the 5:10 "crazy" comments in themselves couldn't have all that much of an impact in response time if at the same time both fire and police were also being told that the zoo reported a tiger was out loose and the zoo wasn't safe.

Have the logs themselves actually been published? Not just news article citing the logs?

[EFerrari]

34. I don't know if they're public record or not. It looks like the reporter

had access to at least a portion of them. The reporter could be asked. The Chron usually lists their email addys at the foot of the article or column.

This is going to be a PR brawl and probably for months.

[struggle4progress]

52. Tiger Attack Radio Transcript

http://www.slate.com/id/2181194/entry/0/

[Hieronymus]

8. A favorite target of Republicans is defense lawyers. Lots of their tactics

are being used by the Hillary campaign.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

56. take this shit to GDP

please

[Garbo 2004]

7. Geragos has spun some "incredible" stuff himself on behalf of his clients (Scott Peterson for ex).

After that, I don't credit what Geragos says on behalf of a client without other corroboration.

One of the brothers called 911 at 5:21 from a cell phone. Did he borrow one or was it his? We don't know.

[Raejeanowl]

11. Enter Geragos

Exit facts.

[kskiska]

13. Slingshot hit could spur maul: Trainer

January 2, 2008 -- A slingshot stunt targeting a tiger at the San Francisco Zoo would have been enough to incite the beast to leap over a 12-foot wall and rush her attackers, the animal's former keeper said yesterday after it was revealed that the big cat's victims allegedly had such weapons.

(snip)

A police source has told The Post that the three victims were carrying slingshots.

(snip)

"At first, intent may have been pure - she might have just seen them as play. once she was out and they started to panic, she could easily have become predatory," said the worker, who cared for Tatiana, the 350-pound Siberian tiger involved in the attack.

Zoo workers are trained to remain calm and still in these situations, but for the general public, it is hard to fight the instinct to yell and run, the keeper said.

" can turn very quickly - their eyes get all glossy and glowing," the zookeeper said. "This happens sometimes when a keeper falls down. But I have worked a great deal with that cat, and she was never aggressive."

Tatiana did, in fact, maul a handler in 2006.

more…
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01022008/news/regionalnews/ouching_tiger_201750.htm

[ecstatic]

18. NY Post couldn't cite a source... everyone is unnamed, unidentified

and possibly paid staffers from the zoo.

[EFerrari]

40. This is what San Francisco gets for privatizing the Zoo management.

What a terrible mistake that was. :(

[pierre790]

15. COPS OVER-REACT AGAIN....

It's interesting that the cops stood by and watched some of what was happening but when the tiger turned its attention on them,they shot and killed it.

I wonder what they do when their kids over-react to things.

The cops prove what asses they are once again and should get a late night visit from some of the border line animal rights activists that are on the loose.

Even though the children taunted the tiger,safe guards should have been in place to prevent what happened.

So now in this third reich country,you'll have to submit to searches before you can enter the zoo because hell,Al-Qaeda might want to recruit some of the larger animals for their nefarious reasons.

[LostinVA]

25. Where does it say where either cops or guards "watched" the attacks?

Nowhere.

I'm far from a police booster, but your accusation is false.

[EFerrari]

26. What most likely happened is that this kids couldn't find anyone

to help them at closing time on Christmas Day. How surprising would that be? Most of the people on were likely low seniority or the second string. The day and time had everything to do with the response, whatever it was.

I don't lay any of this at the feet of the SFPD. None of it.

[LostinVA]

30. That's what I think happened, too

I was directing this at Pierre790 -- I don't want you to think I was accusing you of stating this.

[EFerrari]

37. Oh, no. I was just trying to string things together.

Happy New Year, LostinVA. :)

[LostinVA]

51. You too!

[boricua79]

17. screw them...

The two brothers enraged a tiger with slingshots...(read the other thread) and made her jump over a wall she usually never cleared. ANd now THEY are the victims?

No tears here.

[Garbo 2004]

21. SFPD told ABC news that slingshot story was "merely a rumor." n/t

[zonkers]

27. SLINGSHOT?? YIkes. I say arrest the surviving kids.

[DS1]

20. Of course he's saying that

$$

[EFerrari]

24. But did you check out that the zoo told the first responders that the

kids might be crazy and making stuff up?

[Nihil]

31. Hindsight is wonderful ... so is treating "kids" of 19 & 23 yrs with scepticism

If I'd been the guard approached by a 19 yr old & a 23 yr old who
had both allegedly "run 300 yards" and allegedly consumed alcohol
prior to the incident, a full zoo-wide alert for a previously
unreported escaped tiger would NOT have been my first thought ...

:shrug:

I'm still more than sceptical about the likelihood of the tiger
suddenly doing something that no previous occupant had ever attempted
without significant provocation.

Then again, I'd also trust a tiger to behave like a tiger far more
than I'd trust the word of a couple of strangers and their lawyer
when they are walking a fine line between criminal actions & a seriously
large financial reward ...

[EFerrari]

35. Reconstructing an event by definition requires reflection.

This isn't the first time the tiger decided to chew on a person. And, there is at least one report in the Chronicle reportage about a tiger lunging at a mom and her kid in the late 90s, iirc.

There is no evidence that these people were drunk or the zoo would have plastered it all over the papers by now.

I tend to believe the tiger, too, but it's not an "either or situation". Everything that could go wrong seems to have gone wrong except in the PD's response.

[KittyWampus]

69. PLEASE! tell us all about how/why the tiger decided to chew on another person.

please, all the facts.

Was it intentional?

Or a result of a mistake on the handler's part?

[slackmaster]

33. I think 30 seconds of being attacked by a tiger would seem like 30 minutes

Just sayin'.

[EFerrari]

36. That's a good point. Your brain starts to shut down and

your sense of time can get goofy. Plus, it's dark or nearly dark at 5pm here and moving in the dark can also mess with your sense of time.

Mark is going to sell this for his clients just like the NEW zoo PR guy is going to spin for his. Now we find out that the slingshots are a rumor, for example. The logs will be key in this case, imo.

[undeterred]

38. Tiger attacks survivors attorney, says he's sick of being blamed

Sorry, couldn't resist. :blush:

[EFerrari]

39. Lol. Actually, Mark is blaming the Zoo. It's a Blame-O-Rama.

:)

[Mz Pip]

41. Geragos

:eyes: Let's turn what is already a terrible tragedy into a media circus feeding frenzy. He'll be all over the tube. Yuck.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Corgigal]

43. I don't think Mr. Geragos

would want me on this jury. I'm still not buying that these guy were just innocent victims who loved the big kitty at the zoo. After closing time, when no one was around on Christmas day after possibly a few drinks. No wonder the surviving kids are staying home and keeping their mouths shut. In SF, they sure as hell better be.

[EFerrari]

63. The point for me is, it was the zoo's responsibility to protect

the tiger AND the visitors for each other.

:shrug:

[truebrit71]

44. FUCK 'EM.....slingshots, empty vodka bottles and an ENORMOUS pissed off kitty kat...

...these mucking forons were lucky to be left alive....they are a bunch of fucking idiots that got EXACTLY what they had coming to them...

[tranche]

45. Stupidity punishable by death?

Slingshots = Rumor = Didn't Happen = Stupidity = ?

[truebrit71]

46. Three idiots taunting 350 lb Tiger = stupid = get what you fucking deserve...

...Simple enough for you?

Very simple lesson, don't fuck with the tiger, and the tiger won't fucking eat you...

[avaistheone1]

47. Although your take is a little raw for my taste

I agree with your basic math.

[tranche]

48. Easier Math

Ok, recycling an unverified rumor about sling shots in my mind equals stupidity. I would suggest that a tiger eat you. Preferably mouth and fingers first.

[avaistheone1]

49. Chill out -

This isn't a court of law...

It is my personal opinion based on a information and rumors that are circulating.

If you want my legal opinion, that will cost more.

[tranche]

50. Chilled

This was a reply to truebrits' lazy math, not to your post -- you judged wrong -- hell, maybe a tiger should eat you too.

[atre]

59. Personal opinions based on disproven allegations aren't worth much

... and I find it shocking that people continue to act like the dead kid got what he deserved, when we now have an eye-witness to the events who said that he didn't taunt the tiger - and that it was the two Asian kids who were doing all of the taunting.

[EFerrari]

54. There is no proof that they did anything of the sort?

Simple enough for you?

[EFerrari]

53. Slingshots turn out to be a rumor. It worked, didn't it?

[uppityperson]

55. Slingshots are a RUMOR put out by Nypost. Here are reputable reports on it

Go with real news, not rumors.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7866040?nclick_check=1

... No matter what the young men might have done to provoke the tiger, legal experts say the zoo is responsible to keep the tiger confined. If it escapes, the zoo is "strictly liable," said Peter Keane, law professor at San Francisco's Golden Gate Law School.

"If you have a wild animal and you keep it and it gets out of your control, you're liable," said Peter Keane, law professor at San Francisco's Golden Gate Law School.

However, he said, any evidence of taunting could influence how much the zoo pays out in damages to the victims. If the case goes to court and a jury believes the men taunted the tiger and were partially responsible for the attack, the amount of the jury award can be reduced.

"If they just stood there and said, 'nah nah nah nah nah nah, you're a lousy tiger,' that would be one thing," Keane said. "The taunting itself would have to be some kind of conduct that a reasonable person would know would be dangerous, like going up on top of the fense and trying to lure the thing out. It would have to be more than throwing peanut shells at the tiger."

http://cbs5.com/pets/mark.geragos.tiger.2.622097.html

...It had been previously reported that slingshots were found among men's possessions following the attack, fueling speculation that the weapons were used to antagonize the tiger. However, SFPD spokesman Steve Mennina says police did not find any slingshots at the scene of the tiger attack.

[Pavulon]

57. Translation..Pay us, lawsuit

for lunch meat morons. That is why they have a high dollar scumbag lawyer.

All about the money.

Zoo said they provoked the animal. I believe them..

Morons, Like sushi for tigers..

[pinniped]

60. If they wanted a high-profile scumbag lawyer, they sure got the right one.

.

[RamboLiberal]

61. Latest: S.F. Zoo visitor saw 2 victims of tiger attack teasing lions

Two victims of a lethal Christmas Day tiger attack were harassing the big cats at the San Francisco Zoo shortly before a 350-pound feline escaped its enclosure and mauled them, a woman told The Chronicle on Wednesday.

The revelation comes as the zoo reopens Wednesday, nine days after a visitor was killed and two of his friends were injured by the Siberian tiger, later shot dead by police.

Jennifer Miller, who was at the zoo with her husband and two children that ill-fated Christmas afternoon, said she saw four young men at the big-cat grottos - and three of them were teasing the lions a short time before the tiger's bloody rampage that killed 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr.

"The boys, especially the older one, were roaring at them. He was taunting them," the San Francisco woman said. "They were trying to get that lion's attention. ... The lion was bristling, so I just said, 'Come on, let's get out of here' because my kids were disturbed by it."

She said Sousa - whom she later recognized from his photo in the newspaper - was not heckling. The Chronicle contacted Miller after learning that she and her family had seen the young men at the zoo Christmas Day.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/01/03/MN9TU8AGC.DTL

[EFerrari]

62. So now all the posters that wished this death on the kid

will immediately express their regret.

[truebrit71]

64. Why? Were they not fucking with the big kitties?

I think that they were...

Same equation as before...fuck with a killing machine means you don't get to act all surprised when it acts like a killing machine...

[EFerrari]

65. We have no reason to believe the kid that died was.

The witness says that of the group, he was not.

However, I don't expect you to allow facts to get in your way.

[truebrit71]

66. The kid that got munched was with the kids fucking with the big kitties right?

Right?

If so, same math applies...collateral damage...hang out with fucking morons, pay the price...

[EFerrari]

68. Please post your proof. You can't. There isn't any.

If there was, the zoo would be plastering it all over the papers.

But, I have to commend you for steadfastly blaming one of the victims in this horrible episode. You have been steadfast.

[truebrit71]

70. An innocent tiger is dead because of the actions of these retards...

...That's why I'm steadfast...

[ohio2007]

67. maybe "the zoo" thought they were crying wolf when they really had the tiger by the tail with taunts

[KittyWampus]

71. Game over, I was waiting for a witness. There it is. Zoo had it's wall pass inspection.